David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

[Canadian_watcher]

Oh fuck yea - I think I've got about 10 on ignore. Most of them aren't even around anymore though, and the rest I peek at anyway.
But yes, highly recommended. (not because it is SLAD tho... please don't take it that way)

[Searcher08]

She seems to me like an ardent defender of Icke- I've never noticed her to disagree with him about anything at all. But what I hear her saying directly with her words is something quite different. So, rather than misinterpret what seem to be discrepancies, I'd much rather have her represent her own opinions- directly, in her own words.

She's been very clear in consistently saying that she's not interested in doing that and doesn't intend to, though.

And since her opinion of what Icke says and does doesn't actually change it or prevent anyone else from commenting on it, that's not an enormous impediment to the discussion of anything except SLAD's opinion, which is her business to share or not.

So it's all good.

Strikes a chord for me- going into my control settings and putting a second person on "ignore".

It's for the best, I'm sure.

Obviously it is up to you, but I hope you can re-consider in a few hours.
For me, it is a strange place to be able to stand in each of your places and feel how difficult it can feel to read the others post.

There is a type of thinking called Yellow Hat thinking, where you spell out all the positive features and benefits of a person or situation... for a few minutes...

[seemslikeadream]

if AD has me on ignore does that mean he won't ask me anymore questions?......EVER?

[seemslikeadream]

So if I don't understand your position on the fundamental points of Icke's platform and misunderstand something about your history with the Internet and conspiracies, then it's my fault because I won't dig through and read your 50,000 posts?

AD, Im sorry. But if you don't get where slad is coming from yet, then youre once again a serious disappointment to me.

Do you have any interesting recent news about the ongoing march to global hitech mindcontrolled serfdom and tyranny that ulitmately involves almost every last fucking one of us?

A kind of Randian Utopia where the only reality that exists is the one that they tell you exists?

Slad's revealed a lot of it lately.

I am not able to figure out why AD is so fixated on me.....why it concerns him to no end my views on Icke...Why is he so demanding for me to tell him my views...what have I ever posted about Icke that he feels it is his full time job to pin me down on this Icke thing? Why does he badger me so? Why is he so obsessed with me? It's kinda spooky....One would think there has to be another reason for his infatuation. Is it my eyes Why is he clearly haunted by my not taking his questions to me seriously? Why or why is he so captivated and can not let it go? These are the questions I'd like answers to

It's your Irish eyes

May I suggest...? This is just my perspective after having something of a breakthrough around this...

Because AD cares very very deeply about seeing a better world be created and sorts the world according to that which helps maximise change in the social system and aims to do his best to fight against those forces which he sees as helping to ultimately block and deny change.
AD is probably one of , if not the most practical activist here. I have been very aware in my dialogue with him that this side has come through very little on RI and that from an NLP-informed perspective his language around his skill of activism indicates a very rich 'mental map', to compress dramatically, IMHO 'will this feed the poor?...If not , then question and challenge it to #establish truth'. That which has been thought about is added to the tapestry, that which is rejected is prevented...
HOWEVER - this occurs in a totally different context to MiB - he is only interested in "entertaining" his fellow pseudoskeptics with how batshit insane people outside his map of the world are...

I dont feel any animosity towards AD anymore and feel goodwill from him.

My attitude to Icke is a mirror image of AD - I dont look on Icke as an ideology to follow or a Worldview to critique, or as a sum of the truth values of each thing he writes about.
Rather I look on Icke as an interesting system of transformation, a catalyst, a re-transmitter/assembler of often very 'novel' information and who then creates his own maps based on these. So for me , every single thing that he says could be incorrect and I would probably still like the guy - I treat what he says as a 'provocation' to see where it leads and sometimes that is to really interesting places - like the Bank of International Settlements - an institution deserving of every bit of R.I. scrutiny going.

Icke passes the 'child test' for me - would I be happy and confident that I could leave my child with him to babysit over a weekend and know that they would be taken care of, well fed and loved and be safe. I (so far) dont have kids but feel if I did Icke would pass that test (and so would you and AD )

I hope it was ok to say that, slad - as I think how we think is probably very similar
(judging by the number of times I have nearly typed

^^ what slad said ^^

but didnt cos if I did I would have Repetitive Strain Injury I'd be doing it so often

I thought I read you would have a Reptilian Strain Injury


I was just about to post this with an agreement with you Searcher but then AD posted that repeat shit again before I could finish my post so it looks like we're back to square one

[compared2what?]

Obviously it is up to you, but I hope you can re-consider in a few hours.
For me, it is a strange place to be able to stand in each of your places and feel how difficult it can feel to read the others post.

There is a type of thinking called Yellow Hat thinking, where you spell out all the positive features and benefits of a person or situation... for a few minutes...

I actually do something very much like that just on, like, an ad hoc personal-practice basis. Regularly. Often without thinking about it, almost.

I'd be interested in knowing more. Because although I obviously find it pleasant and useful enough to do it -- it's extremely rewarding most of the time, actually -- I also find that it does have its pitfalls.

ON EDIT: Looked it up. Makes sense. Made me think of Curious George.

[82_28]

I don't dismiss anything without first thinking about it. In this particular case, the idea - based on ancient legends, lore & oral histories passed down from generation to generation as well as this and that bit of archeological evidence (submerged cities, tech that 'couldn't possibly have existed! but does, etc) - it doesn't seem out of the realms of possibility to me that beings from other solar systems or planets within ours might have existed and might have been here - might still be here - we might be a part of them now. It's not at all outrageous to me.

I really am curious, though, as to why any of that is so outrageous to you that you do dismiss it out of hand. To me that's the key; the reason you are so disturbed by people who think differently than you do.

It's just the way i think. These ancient legends, lore & oral histories are just that - ancient legends, lore & oral histories. But when somebody like Icke tries to bring these things into the realm of tangible existence they must bring with it the evidence. I haven't seen convincing evidence.

I'm not disturbed, i am fascinated - by the mechanisms of the mind. How and why people think what they think and believe what they believe. If our beliefs are wrong our memories are wrong, our reasons for conflict are wrong - so many wrong actions follow wrong beliefs … i can't think of anything NOT affected by our beliefs. It is fascinating.

MIB

Sweet, bro! We (I) understand this. This much is clear. You have a problem with the greater picture of the phenomenon, as all "skeptics" do. Believe me, I was one once. Very much so. You understand this but retain too much ego for it to be fruitful here. There are layers upon layers of what we call understanding. Do we yet still understand? I dunno, apparently you do. That is fancy as fuck. I salute your powers.

I'm just telling you are wrong in and of your methods. Method away, do what you must. You're still incurious and annoying because you're right according to Mr. Bilderberg. REALLY? Mason I Bilderberg? Come the fuck on, bro. Even if I was going to come up with a spoof site or something, Mason I Bilderberg would be perhaps the most preposterously non funny name I could come up with. And then to flow in the infallible creeds of the great skeptics as if you're making a point, is just embarrassing.

WE GET YOUR POINT. The point has been gotten LONG LONG before you arrived. My problem is is that you are exhibiting an ego when unnecessary and that you are also passive aggressive. Not a good and true skeptic does this make.

[seemslikeadream]

[justdrew]

a family portrait?



http://www.macroevolution.net/hybrid-hypothesis-contents.html

interesting. but, someone should explain why the guy's name just happens to be EUGENE MCCARTHY and a featured 'recent tweet' is by someone named Jim Jones. what are the odds huh?

[American Dream]

Cross-posting from the "TIDS" thread:

http://www.social-ecology.org/1996/01/l ... ctives-35/

From Green Messiah to New Age Nazi

by Matthew Kalman and John Murray

Matthew Kalman and John Murray are editors of the eco-political investigative magazine Open Eye, which has been uncovering and exposing David Icke and “New Age Nazism.” Address: BM Open Eye, London WC1N 3XX. Issue 3 is available for £1.70.


It has been hard in recent years to ignore the rising popularity of almost everything that comes under the heading New Age. Yoga, meditation, Kabbalah, Buddhism, alternative medicine, environmentalism, and self-improvement, as well as an array of New Age therapies, have all gained in popularity, as have other fringe interests like UFOs and the paranormal, which often appeal to the same people. Few will have avoided at least some contact.

The movement even has its own stars. In Britain, David Icke, the TV sports commentator turned Green Party national spokesman turned purple-robed “Son of God,” is the best-known leader. [See "British Green Party Cofounder Icke Goes New Age," Green Perspectives, no. 24, October 1991.] His books sell fast, and he pulls in the crowds as a charismatic speaker on a hectic schedule of speaking engagements and workshops. Though many see him as a figure of fun, his popularity is undimmed.

Icke has led a public life: from goalkeeper for the Coventry City and Hereford United teams, he then moved on to the BBC as a sports commentator. He later became national spokesperson for the Green Party before resigning in 1990, declaring himself to be “a Son of the Godhead,” wearing turquoise, and predicting catastrophic geological upheaval. His latest incarnation is more sinister.

In the summer of 1994 Icke wrote The Robots’ Rebellion: The Story of the Spiritual Renaissance, a book which indicated a convergence of New Age thinking with Nazi philosophy. Casting aside his pat concerns about the environment, Icke enthusiastically embraced the classic Nazi conspiracy theory, alleging that the world is controlled by a secret cadre of “The Elite.” He openly endorsed the The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the tsarist anti-Semitic forgery that informed Hitler’s notion of a global Jewish conspiracy.

Icke seems oblivious to the fact that the Protocols were long ago exposed as a crude device to stir up hatred of Jews. Nor is he concerned about their popularity with Nazis from Hitler onwards. “Just because Hitler used knowledge for negative reasons doesn’t reflect on the knowledge,” says Icke.

The Robots’ Rebellion weaves a complex tapestry of extreme right-wing concerns about conspiracies to control the world through such diverse means as banking, the New World Order, freemasons, the FBI, the Waco siege, microchips, extraterrestrials, and gun control.

The anti-Semitism of the book is not concealed. Icke accuses Jewish bankers of funding both Hitler and the Bolsheviks,a classic piece of far-right propaganda. He attacks “Jehovah, the vengeful God of the Jews,” as “quite possibly an extraterrestrial.” He is unabashed in sourcing his material back to leading U.S. right-wing militia figures such as Bill Cooper, who believes in a UFO/world government conspiracy that includes aliens both good and bad: “blond Aryans” and large-nosed “Greys.”

Unfortunately, the publication of The Robots’ Rebellion aroused very little criticism of Icke, although many Green Party members began to realize the danger that their one-time figurehead now represented. Some began to picket meetings, with other antifascists later following their lead.

Now Icke has published a new book, . . . And the Truth Shall Set You Free [Cambridge: Bridge of Love, 1995], which brings his anti-Semitic ideas to a chilling conclusion.

Following an Open Eye investigation and the resulting negative publicity, Icke’s publisher, Gateway, refused to handle the new book. Icke has been forced to produce it himself, with financial backing from a Jewish supporter named David Solomon. The book contains a desperate plea to readers to help sell copies.

Icke’s basic thesis is that “almost every major negative event of global significance has been part of the same long-term plan by the All-Seeing Eye cult to take over the planet via a centralized world government, central bank, currency and army.” Although Icke uses terms like Illuminati and Brotherhood to describe this elite, their true identity soon becomes apparent. “There is a global Jewish clique,” he writes, who “worked with non-Jews to create the First World War, the Russian Revolution, and the Second World War. This . . . elite secured the Balfour Declaration and the principle of the Jewish state of Israel in Palestine.”

Icke says that, “given the genetic history of most Jewish people,” the Jews have no claim to Israel. This is a common argument among the far right, some of whom believe that the Anglo-Saxons of northern Europe are the true descendants of the “lost tribes of Israel.” Just in case readers have any doubts, Icke explains that the “Israeli government, its army, and its intelligence arm, Mossad, are neo-Nazi, terrorist organizations.”

Further revelations from Icke include the news that the same Jewish clique “financed Hitler to power in 1933,” and that an “Estonian Jew,” Nazi party ideologue Alfred Rosenberg, gave Hitler a copy of the Protocols, thereby sealing the fate of the Jews by encouraging Hitler to embark on the Holocaust. Rosenberg was not, of course, Jewish but a viciously anti-Semitic Baltic German. In the meantime bankers like Max Warburg had already left Nazi Germany. “All this was coldly calculated by the ‘Jewish’ elite,” says Icke. The elite is “merciless . . . sick and diabolical,” as well as being controlled by the “Luciferic Consciousness.”

As if the suggestion that Jews orchestrated the Holocaust were not enough, Icke also condemns the Nuremberg trials. “Nuremberg was an insult to natural justice,” he sputters. He condemns the practice whereby free copies of Schindler’s List “are given to schools to indoctrinate children.” This is because Icke, like other neo-Nazis before him, has decided that the murder of six million Jews in the Holocaust is a myth.

He urges his readers to take Holocaust revisionism seriously and, without giving his name, describes and praises the French founding father of Holocaust revisionism, Paul Rassinier—a one-time French Resistance fighter who was himself incarcerated in a concentration camp. “You cannot, if you are interested in truth, just dismiss his findings and condemn him as a Nazi apologist,” says Icke. “But that is what happened to him and others too.”

What exactly are the views of Rassinier? He denies the existence of death camps and rubbishes the reports of survivors as “a collection of contradictory pieces of ill-natured gossip.” Rassinier contends that the gas chambers are an invention of the “Zionist establishment.” Why is it that the rest of us, including the Nazi perpetrators themselves, are so sure that the Holocaust did indeed happen? “The Jews have been able to dupe the world by relying on their mythic powers and conspiratorial abilities,” says Rassinier. “World Jewry has once again employed its inordinate powers to harness the world’s financial resources, media and political interests for their own purposes.”

Challenged about his endorsement of these Nazi apologists, Icke’s wife Linda dares to say things that her husband has not yet committed to print. While the book’s discussion of the Holocaust merely asserts tha the Revisionist version should at least be heard, Mrs. Icke denigrates the fact of the Holocaust itself. “We’ve had the figures come down from six million to two,” she claims, citing unnamed “Jewish” sources. “We’ve had a lifetime of one view and one story. Maybe if all things were laid out on the table the truth might come out, whatever it is.”

Icke promises that “much, much more” is yet to be revealed about the Holocaust. A flavor of what might be forthcoming is contained in a striking passage purporting to explain anti-Semitism. Like many neo-Nazis, Icke goes out of his way to deny being anti-Semitic, claiming that he is merely criticizing a “manipulating Jewish clique” who regard the mass of Jews as “cattle to be used and abused as required” in their quest for world domination.

“The Jewish people (who, like the rest of us, are evolving consciousnesses that happen to be working in a Jewish genetics spacesuit at this point), will never be free until they step out of the emotional and mental control of this tiny clique, which uses them in the most merciless ways to advance its own sick and diabolical ambitions.”

Following a common Nazi thread which goes back to Hitler, Icke blames the Jews themselves for anti-Semitism. “Thought patterns in the collective Jewish mind have repeatedly created that physical reality of oppression, prejudice and racism which matches the pattern—the expectation—programmed into their collective psyche. They expect it; they create it.”

For Further Reading . . .

In the light of the book’s content, it will come as little surprise that the further reading recommended in the back pages of . . . And the Truth Shall Set You Free includes neo-Nazi and racist literature. One favorite source is the “excellent” Spotlight, an anti-Semitic tabloid published in the United States that promotes Holocaust denial as a major theme.

Icke also recommends On Target, the magazine of the British League of Rights, a racist group committed to preventing the immigration of “alien peoples” and maintaining a “homogenous” (read: whites only) society. Its editor, Donald Martin, also contributes to Spearhead, the organ of the National Front now controlled by the British National Party. Martin, whom the BNP regards as a “friend and ally,” runs Britain’s leading book-supply service for the extreme right. Among the seven hundred or so titles are Did Six Million Really Die?, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and Henry Ford’s The International Jew: The World’s Foremost Problem.

Donald Martin now appears to be using Icke and others in the New Age movement as fronts to soft-sell his hard anti-Semitism. As far right-watcher Larry O’Hara points out, “Icke is in many ways a more dangerous figure than Holocaust Revisionist David Irving, for he has the capacity to entice new people onto the anti-Semitic treadmill.”

The neo-Nazis have certainly picked up on Icke. Street-fighting group Combat 18 have mingled with New Agers at Icke’s lectures and favorably reviewed one of his appearances in their bulletin, Putsch.

Though Icke has now largely dropped his New Age and green message, his supporters have yet to desert him. . . . And the Truth Shall Set You Free sold out its initial print run of 4,000 in just two and a half weeks, good going for a book that has—thankfully—been sold mainly by mail order so far. The glossy New Age magazines Kindred Spirit and Vision, widely available at on newsstands, continue to promote Icke’s work.

New Age Magazines

Nexus, an Australia-based New Age/conspiracy magazine that Icke commends as “excellent,” has carried extracts of Holocaust Revisionism articles from Spotlight. It recently published a four-part history of banking that identified Hitler and Mussolini as the last two people who could have stopped the usurious bankers.

The magazine, which is hoping to build on its current 130,000-plus circulation with a special British edition due out this month, carries regular advertisements for catalogues of neo-Nazi publications and videos.

Closer to home, David Icke is not alone in pushing extreme right-wing and racist ideas within the New Age movement. The London-based magazine Rainbow Ark has a New Age appearance but has long been closely associated with both David Icke and Donald Martin, who has written articles under a pseudonym as well as lecturing at meetings organized by the magazine. Articles in Rainbow Ark attack Jewish bankers, the “Illuminati,” and Zionism. The magazine also has a strange theory about modern Israel:

“When a person has a strong hatred of another race, their higher self often (karmically) makes sure they incarnate in that race to balance them out. Thus many of the worst kind of Nazis have already incarnated in Jewish bodies, explaining therefore some of the fireworks which are going on and will go on in Israel.”

Investigations by Open Eye have revealed that Rainbow Ark has been funded by people with a long history of extreme right and racist activity and was initially based in the apartment of Mary Stanton, a prominent racist campaigner who had previously lent it out to the National Front for an election campaign. When Rainbow Ark held a public meeting at the Battlebridge New Age center in Kings Cross on September 13, a Jewish researcher who attended was physically assaulted by a Rainbow Ark editor. The researcher was mistakenly accused of helping with an exposé by Open Eye of “New Age Nazism. [See Matthew Kalman and John Murray, "New Age Nazism," New Statesman and Society, June 23, 1995.]

Despite the assault, Rainbow Ark continues to hold public meetings at the Battlebridge Center, which was originally set up to help homeless people. When the center’s organizer Julie Lowe was asked about Rainbow Ark, she explained that she believed that the Jewish conspiracy described in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is true and ought to be investigated. “I met two old Jewish men at Hyde Park Corner one evening who told me they were true,” says Lowe. “They were saying that if they didn’t get their way in the things they wanted, they were able through Philadelphia in America to pull the money out of every city in the world.

“I’ve seen it happen in Sheffield, so I believe it. It depends who’s actually doing the controlling and who’s go the money. The connection between freemasonry and Jewry is very important.”

Nor are the deluded management of the Battlebridge Center the only people to welcome Icke and give him a platform. During a twenty-minute interview on BBC Greater London Radio on October 15, 1995, publicizing his new book, Icke was given free rein to describe the global conspiracy and how he was now addressing audiences of up to three hundred a night who no longer come to laugh at him but to really listen.

This article originally appeared in New Moon: The Jewish Alternative (November 1995).

[seemslikeadream]

David Icke Wembley Arena part 1 of 5 Jimmy Saville 27 Oct 2012

[Jerky]

Wait, wait, wait... So now NEXUS is a neo-nazi rag?!

That's sounds like pure bullshit to me.

have read numerous editions of NEXUS magazine from cover to cover and have NEVER come across anything even remotely smelling of an editorial anti-Semitic stance.

Also, I think they might be very much over-selling Icke's anti-Semitism, as well. I'm not an Icke supporter, myself, but I have listened to numerous videos on Youtube - some many hours long and some addressing what he calls "Rothschild Zionism", which does seem like slightly couched anti-Jewish sentiment - but nothing like what they describe in the article above.

Will have to do more research, but this smells like a hatchet job to me.

YOPJ

[seemslikeadream]

If you think it's a joke
That's all right, do what
You want to do
I've said my peace
And I'll leave it all up to your



Higher and higher
Now we've learned to play with fire
Go higher
And higher
And higher

Vast vision must improve our sight
Perhaps at last we'll see an end
To our homes endless blight
And the beginning of the Free


Earth falls far away
New life awaits
Time it has no day
New life awaits
Here is your dream
And now how does it feel?
No words will go with you
And now what is real?

Oh, you'd like it
Gliding around
Get your feet off the ground
Oh, you'd like it
Do as you please
With so much ease

I'm gonna sit and watch the web
That you will build this day
Will it be a thread of love you weave?
It's yours to show the way
Then everything will be
As you will see in the light[/size]




A gypsy of a strange and distant time
Traveling in panic, all direction blind
Aching for the warmth of a burning sun
Freezing in the emptiness of where he'd come from
Ahhhh, ahhhhh
Left without a hope of coming home

Speeding through a shadow of a million years
Darkness is the only sound to reach his ears
Frightening him with the visions of eternity
Screaming for a future that can never be
Ahhh, ahhhh
Left without a hope of coming home

Ahhhh, ahhhh



Hark, listen here he comes
Hark, listen here he comes
Turning, spinning, catherine wheeling
Forever changing
There's no beginning
Speeding through a charcoal sky
Observe the truth, we cannot lie


The sun is still shining
Look at the view
Moon is still dining
With me and you
Now that we're out here
Open your heart
To the universe
Of which we're a part

Everything's turning
Turning around
See with your mind
Leave your body behind
Now that we're out here
Open your heart
To the universe
Of which we're a part

But if you want to play
Stay right back on earth
Waiting for rebirth

The sun is still shining
Look at the view
Moon is still dining
With me and you
Now that we're out here
Open your heart
To the universe
Of which we're a part

But if you want to play
Stay right back on earth
Waiting for rebirth

[justdrew]

the above article is from 1995, so it's about the angry young Icke, and it's well established that he's toned it down since, but it's also crystal clear he engineered his original psychic payload to appeal to the white-wing set, at that time. He's moved on to some extent since then. but as far as I'm concerned he could be a witting or unwitting agent of the British Government.

yes, he says some good things sometimes, but not enough, it could well be just a "spoon full of sugar"/"the camels nose under the tent"/etc

I don't feel an urgent need to trust him and I don't trust him. Doesn't me I've never paid any attention, but so it goes...

but hey, I like the Moody Blues, actually been listening to some of their stuff lately beyond american corporate rock radio's endlessly repeating of knights in white satin.

[Jerky]

Please believe me, JustDrew, when I tell you that David Icke is not anyone for whom I have a great deal of respect (beyond the bare minimum of basic respect I afford all sentient beings) or from whom I would ever be willing to take any marching orders.

That said, I do find his enthusiasm somewhat infectious. And he does delve into areas of research where I, myself, have been digging for decades now, too. So I appreciate being able to hear someone else's take on, say, the undergirding network of beliefs that make up the foundations of Theosophy, Anthroposophy, Thelema, and the pseudo-Swedenborgian "Christian Kabbalah" materials that made late 19th and early 20th century occultism such a fascinating stew of ideologies to sample.

Basically, I see Icke as kind of being like a occultist Tarantino, in that Tarantino has far better taste in film than he has actual film-making chops (imo). You get more from checking out what Tarantino (and Icke) are into than you do from actually engaging their own stuff.

YOPJ

YOPJ

[seemslikeadream]

the above article is from 1995, so it's about the angry young Icke, and it's well established that he's toned it down since, but it's also crystal clear he engineered his original psychic payload to appeal to the white-wing set, at that time. He's moved on to some extent since then. but as far as I'm concerned he could be a witting or unwitting agent of the British Government.

yes, he says some good things sometimes, but not enough, it could well be just a "spoon full of sugar"/"the camels nose under the tent"/etc

I don't feel an urgent need to trust him and I don't trust him. Doesn't me I've never paid any attention, but so it goes...

but hey, I like the Moody Blues, actually been listening to some of their stuff lately beyond american corporate rock radio's endlessly repeating of knights in white satin.

Watching and waiting
For someone to understand me
I hope it won't be very long