David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby justdrew » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:44 pm

Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby American Dream » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:49 pm

Trigger Warning

The Prodigal Witch Part XVI: Illuminati Slaves (Part II)

Arizona Wilder

For a few years, an American woman known as Arizona Wilder straddled the wavy line between Satanic/Illuminati high priestess and Satanic ritual abuse survivor, giving the impression that if Josef Mengele had not screwed with her head, she would never have presided over hideous blood rituals for the lizard people who govern our planet.

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How to Become a Satanic Illuminati Priestess Without Really Trying

Arizona, born Jennifer Ann Nagel, told Icke she was prenatally selected to become an Illuminati priestess, also known as a Mother Goddess or Starfire. The Illuminati is obsessed with bloodlines, and Jennifer apparently had all the markers of a perfect specimen. In addition to her genetic profile, the Illuminati was impressed with her psychic abilities. She doesn’t explain how these were detected in utero.

Some online articles on Wilder mention that she has sisters. Wilder herself didn’t talk about them at that time.

She said she didn’t know who her real father was; she only knew he couldn’t be the man who called himself her father, because he came from an “impure bloodline”. Arizona hasn’t divulged her precise heritage, but she identifies herself as Aryan and says she dies her fair hair to keep the Illuminati away from her. Paradoxically, she also hints that her maternal ancestry involves the Rothschilds. You’ll be seeing many such contradictions in her story.

Jennifer had a seemingly normal upbringing in California, raised by her birth mother and a man she identified as her stepfather. Both of the Nagels were elementary school teachers.

Her memories of Satanic Reptilians were “recovered” during adult psychotherapy, like Lauren Stratford’s “memories”. In 1989, she realized her past contained large amounts of missing time. Gradually, over the course of a decade (1989-’99), she “recovered” memories of sexual abuse by her stepfather, mind control programming, and ritual abuse. She realized that her parents had been forced to move to California in her infancy so she could begin training as a high priestess in the Illuminati, which practices “Satanism” (basically Druidic Paganism with human sacrifice).

California, she explained to Icke, is the international headquarters of the High Council. So far, her story jives fairly well with those of Mike Warnke and John Todd, who also identified California as the hub of a national Satanic network.

Trauma-based mind control was used to “compartmentalize” young Jennifer with Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) (the notion of “implanted” DID is discussed in the previous post about Illuminati slave Cisco Wheeler). She was subjected to electroshock, sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation, sensory overload, and more sophisticated forms of mind control, including tri-tonal frequencies somewhat resembling Robert Monroe’s patented Hemi-Sync process. The programming was sometimes combined with elements of ancient Druidic rituals. Most of it was conducted on military bases, primarily China Lake Naval Base in the California desert. This particular locale was probably not a random choice on Wilder’s part; as mentioned in the Mengele section of the last post, in 1995 a woman named Chris Denicola told the Presidential Commission on Radiation that she had been subjected to torture and mind control programming by a Dr. Greene at China Lake in the ’60s and ’70s.

Wilder’s primary programmer was Josef Mengele, whom she (and numerous other government mind control victims) claim was brought into the U.S. under Project Paperclip to conduct horrific psychological experiments on children. “Former Illuminati Satanist” Bill Schnoebelen mentioned this in his Prophecy Club lecture “Exposing the Illuminati from Within” (c. 1996).

Mengele made little effort to disguise his physical appearance or his thick German accent, but called himself “Dr. Green” (the Green/Mengele meme is also explored at some length in the previous post).

Dr. Green introduced Jennifer to Illuminati Satanism, taking her to rituals in the U.S., France, and Britain. Her parents didn’t interfere, being Illuminati zombies with Dissociative Identity Disorder themselves. Just in case they did object to her training, though, the Nagels were told their daughter had an IQ of 70 and required special attention. In elementary school, she was repeatedly transferred to different classrooms and seemed to have learning difficulties.

Wilder doesn’t speak much about her alter personalities, and she hasn’t made it clear if she is now integrated, or still suffers DID. In a 2001 presentation, she described one alter named “Alice in the Gray Place”, an artefact of Alice in Wonderland programming (according to Fritz Springmeier and Cisco Wheeler, many levels of government mind control are based on popular children’s books and movies, The Wizard of Oz being particularly favoured by the Illuminati).

Various groups within the Illuminati system schooled Jennifer in history, the paranormal arts, and ritual magic. She was taken to an underground military installation beneath Area 51 to meet cloned cyborg dolphin-alien hybrids known as cybers, as well as real aliens. At another military base, she was taught to communicate with dolphins, for some reason. At UCLA she was part of the parapsychological research conducted by Dr. Thelma Moss (in which Dr. Louis Jolyon West participated, she said). The Janus Group taught her how to psychically murder. When she was five years old, she was taken to Leningrad for psychic experiments jointly conducted by Soviet scientists and the KGB. The Soviets subjected young Jennifer to near-drowning in icewater on three separate occasions to induce Near Death Experiences, as part of their research. The Mothers of Darkness (a fictional witch coven described in Fritz Springmeier’s books) taught her that the Aryans came to Earth from Mars about 6000 years ago, after Mars was invaded by Reptilian aliens. The Reptilians followed them 2000 years later, masquerading as gods to fool humans into obeying them. By interbreeding with select Aryans, the Reptilians created an elite bloodline that persists to this day. Though they appear wholly human, they’re actually holographic projections surrounding 7′-12′ tall, bipedal lizards who can bip in and out of other dimensions at will. These alien-human hybrids maintain their human shape most of the time, but when exposed to human blood they go crazy and begin to lose control over their holographic projections, morphing into their lizard manifestations. Wilder and Icke referred to this as “shapeshifting”.

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Never trust a lizard, folks.

Everything you always wanted to know about holographic interdimensional lizard sex

According to Icke and other researchers, the Reptilians don’t possess many human emotions, but they do have an innate urge to worship Satan (this is more than a bit odd, if they’re the ones who invented all the pre-Judaic religions in the first place). Furthermore, they need humans to conduct their Satanic rituals, because they do not possess psychic abilities. And apparently you have to be psychic to worship the Devil in the appropriate manner. This is where Jennifer and her fellow “Mothers of Darkness” come in. It was Jennifer’s job, as an Illuminati high priestess, to stand within a hexagram, a pentagram, and a triangle drawn on the ground and summon the evil “Old Ones”, ancient Reptilians from another dimension. As Wilder describes it, this Reptilian religion is something like ancestor worship crossed with Paganism crossed with a B movie.

Hers was an exalted position within the Illuminati. At any given time, there are only three Mother Goddesses in the entire world, which brings to mind Cisco Wheeler‘s bizarre rant about three “Mothers of Darkness” who will someday “rule and reign with the antichrist as his queen when he takes his throne”. But Mother Goddesses, for some reason, have a limited shelf life. By tradition, they are slaughtered and replaced by their own daughters when they reach the age of 52. Wilder escaped this fate only because she began to recover her repressed memories in her forties. She doesn’t mention offing her own mother, so I guess we can assume that Mrs. Nagel simply wasn’t Mother Goddess material.

The alternate title for Mother Goddesses, “Starfire”, is a reference to menstrual blood. In The Biggest Secret, Icke calls it the “female lunar essence”, treasured by the ancients. Virgin priestesses offered it up to the elite as a life-prolonging “nectar of the gods” (ew, right?). He tells us the word “ritual” derives from this practice, as ritu means “red” in some ancient language or other. To the Reptilians, however, this is more than just a ritual practice. Icke tells us, “Drinking menstrual blood has always been a feature of the reptilian bloodlines because they need blood to live in this dimension.” Without it, they cannot hold their human shape. (1, 295)

This starfire gibberish came from the late Laurence Gardner, who first wrote about it in a series of Nexus magazine articles in 1998. I tried to find out if there was one iota of truth to it. In short: No, menstrual blood was not revered by our ancestors. In fact, people throughout the ages have found it pretty icky, even ritually unclean, and have done their best to avoid contact with it by any means necessary.

Reptilians sacrifice all their firstborn children as well as many other victims. Among these are children bred specifically for sacrifice. This “breeder” meme began with the very first account of Satanic ritual abuse, Michelle Remembers, in 1980. In 1988, Lauren Stratford became the first former Satanist to claim status as a “breeder” when she wrote about her recovered memories of bearing three children by her Devil-worshiping controller, Victor, between the ages of nineteen and twenty (yes, you read that correctly). Two of the infants were killed in snuff films, and the third (as she emotionally told Geraldo) was sacrificed on a Satanic altar.

Jennifer presided over many hideous blood rituals that turned the lizard men and women into ravenous, blood-swilling beasts. The faintest whiff of blood excites them tremendously. They’re addicted to it. After drinking their victims’ blood, they eviscerate the bodies and consume choice parts of their flesh. These lizard bacchanalias are usually held on Druidic holidays.

Because these atrocities were committed by her alters, Jennifer had no conscious recollection of them until entering therapy in 1989. As early as 1990, however, she began speaking out against the New World Order. She attracted the attention of Brian Desborough, a conspiranoid who claims to assist survivors of mind control. It may have been Desborough who brought Wilder to the attention of David Icke.

Unlike fellow Illuminati escapee Doc Marquis, Wilder doesn’t shy away from naming names. In her interview with Icke, she outed numerous people as Reptilian hybrids, including Mengele, Pope John Paul II, Queen Elizabeth II and her mother, Jay Rockefeller, Princess Margaret, Prince Charles, Prince Phillip, “Baron Gita Rothschild” (more on him later), Tony Blair, Gerald Ford, Lyndon Johnson, Ronald and Nancy Reagan, Bill and Hillary Clinton (though she did not see Hillary shapeshift), George Bush Sr. and Jr., Jeb Bush, Henry Kissinger, Madeleine Albright, Newt Gingrich, and Bob Hope. If that last name seems a little out of place, check out the memoirs of Monarch Project survivor Brice Taylor, published the same year Wilder was interviewed by Icke. In fact, all the names on Wilder’s Reptilian list had already been dropped by alleged mind controlled sex slaves.

Weirdly, Wilder also implicated in the Reptilian conspiracy Zecharia Sitchin and Laurance Gardner – the very same man who came up with the starfire silliness. Between 1996 and his death in 2010, Gardner wrote several books detailing a hypothetical “dragon bloodline” (the Holy Grail) that began in ancient Sumer when Reptilian aliens called the Anunnaki genetically engineered a hybrid race. The late Sitchin wrote a long string of “nonfiction” books about a race of humanoid aliens who visited Earth from a tenth planet in our solar system, Nibiru, and masqueraded as the gods of ancient Sumer.

At rituals, Wilder said, Sitchin boasted about “getting rid” of people who interfered with his work. At this point in the interview, Icke revealed that Sitchin once warned him away from investigating the Reptilian presence on Earth. It’s entirely possible that Sitchin did do this, as he does not subscribe to the Reptilian theories of the Annunaki/Nephilim aliens. In fact, he describes those aliens as essentially human in appearance. We could view this as a friendly warning from one crackpot to another, but Icke apparently views it as part of the lizard conspiracy. Just how much he and/or Brian Desborough influenced Arizona Wilder is open to question. At the time of the Icke interview, Wilder was also being accompanied and supported by a mysterious woman known only as “Miss Pinky”. Just what role she played in the whole thing is unclear.

Wilder went on to explain that the Reptilians had been pursuing the Aryan peoples around the universe for millennia in order to harvest their blood. The blood of the white race was particularly important to them for some reason (though blood is basically blood, no matter which race it is drawn from), and the blond-haired, blue-eyed variety was the one they wanted more than any other. How is it, then, that almost none of the individuals she saw at rituals fit into this genetic category? Do Reptilians just really, really suck at eugenics?

Wilder knew the Illuminati worked in concert with Reptilians and their hybrid offspring to dominate the world, but she was only sometimes privy to Illuminati plots. Her job was simply to summon the Old Ones and preside over rituals. But on one occasion, at Balmoral Castle, she overheard the Queen of England talking to an Arab-looking man she knew only as Fayed. They were discussing a marriage between Princess Diana – who was still married to Prince Charles at the time – and Fayed’s son, Dodi.

This fits in perfectly with David Icke’s theory of Diana’s death. He believes she was groomed even before her birth to be a Dianic sacrifice. Everything, from the timing of her birth to the site of her “car accident”, was painstakingly arranged by the Illuminati in accordance with ancient ritual protocol. Nothing could be left to chance.



Wilder said that the present head of the Illuminati is not a Rothschild, as former members John Todd, Bill Schnoebelen and Doc Marquis told us. It is actually a Reptilian-human hybrid known as Pindar, or the Marquis de Libeaux (this has been disputed by Illuminati-watchers like Stewart Swerdlow of Montauk Experiment fame, who insist a Rothschild is still top dog).

According to Wilder, Pindar in his Reptilian form is so terrifying that even the Queen Mum quailed before him. His name means “Penis of the Dragon”, and his personal totem is a golden phallus.

Pindar runs a sort of one-man Lebensborn, impregnating as many Aryan women as possible to perpetuate his glorious bloodline. He is the real father of Prince Charles, and perhaps William as well. You might remember him from my post on Dr. Bill Deagle (he thrice offered to make Dr. D. his second-in-command as Ruler of the World).

Not much else is known about this guy. Icke, in The Biggest Secret, says he lives in a chateau somewhere in the Alsace-Lorraine region.

Pindar may be The Man right now, but conspiracy researcher Don Croft assures us that a team of psychics and telepathic dolphins are deploying thought waves against him. So stay tuned

Update (July 10/12): The origins of this “Pindar” fellow have long eluded me. The Greek poet of that name doesn’t appear to have had the lizardy characteristics of a “hybrid”, so the adoption of his name by the Illuminati’s Grand Poobah didn’t make much sense. “Pindar” had to possess some other significance, because everything has significance in Illuminati conspiracy tales.

Today, quite by accident, I found what I believe to be the inspiration for the “Marquis” described by Wilder and the “ruler of the world” who tried to entice Dr. Deagle into becoming his Igor. And just as Icke ominously intones in the opening scene of Revelations of a Mother Goddess, the City of London really is the centre of Pindar’s domain.

It’s a freaking underground bunker.

In 1984, the Ministry of Defence at Whitehall began constructing an underground “citadel” (the MoD’s fancy word for bunker) to serve as a crisis management and communications centre between MoD headquarters and the centre of military operations, the Permanent Joint Headquarters (the citadel’s tunnel system is also reportedly connected to Downing Street) .The Whitehall citadel wasn’t fully completed until 1994.

And guess what the MoD named it? PINDAR. Not after a French lizardman, but after the story of Pindar the Poet’s house being the only one intact after Alexander’s forces ravaged Thebes in 335 BC.

Note the dates. PINDAR was completed in 1994, and there was much grumbling and moaning about the expense of the thing throughout London (the tunnels themselves may be “secret”, but the project was not). Five years later, a mysterious reptile man with the name “Pindar” pops up in testimony provided to David Icke – a guy who already believed London to be the hub of the NWO conspiracy.

“But they clearly named their bunker after Pindar!”, you might say. Well, that seems a day late and a dollar short, don’t you think? The guy had already been the ruler of the world for years by the time they got around to naming something after him… and they chose a bunker?

It’s the other way around, of course. Icke and/or Wilder were suspicious of the PINDAR bunker/tunnel system, and decided it must be named for someone very important to the lizardpeople. Like, maybe a shadowy Frenchman who doesn’t use his real name and can’t be tracked down?

Wilder perhaps had several children by Pindar (the lizard, not the bunker). She says a “Dr. Barrington” (“Baron Gita Rothschild” in disguise) harvested her eggs several times and fertilized them with Pindar’s sperm. It should be noted that none of the Barons Rothschild has had the name or nickname Gita. The only Gita Rothschild is an American attorney. She is not, and has never been, a physician. Also, she is not actually a Rothschild. She was once married to a Rothschild.

This problem of imaginary Rothschilds is not unique to Arizona Wilder. As noted in the previous post, at least one of Doug Riggs’s parishioners believes he is the illegitimate spawn of a European Rothschild who doesn’t seem to exist.

Though in vitro fertilization is sometimes used to create hybrids, Reptilians are perfectly capable of procreating with humans in the conventional manner. For instance, Camilla Parker-Bowles bore a child by Prince Charles in the late ’70s. It was ritually sacrificed.

Reptilian females menstruate normally, sometimes even during pregnancy. They must have to fight the urge to shapeshift continuously.

In 1989, Wilder was married to a man named Greene and had two children by him, a son and a daughter. This was when her recurrent bouts of depression and flashbacks of incestuous abuse began to trouble her, and she announced to her parents that she was entering therapy. She says they strongly discouraged her from doing so, telling her that nothing could be gained from digging into her past.

She has not divulged the name of her first therapist. She identifies him/her as a psychiatrist who ran a program for adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. She chose this psychiatrist because she had heard him/her on a radio program, discussing his/her use of sodium amytal to assist his/her patients in the recovery of repressed memories. All sessions were video and audio taped. Later, she concluded that the Illuminati somehow manipulated her into consulting this particular doctor so that he/she could help the mind controllers gain further access to her brain.

She maintains that she was not led, influenced, or coerced during these interviews. She believes the information obtained was accurate. In a 2001 presentation, she also mentioned being in therapy with an internationally recognized therapist who specialized in treating victims of ritual abuse and mind control. (2) Whether this is the same man who administered the sodium amytal or not, we simply don’t know. It’s interesting that one well-known psychiatrist of the early ’90s, Dr. Bennett Braun, used sodium amytal, specialized in MPD/DID treatment, and helped patients “recover” repressed memories of Satanic ritual abuse.

When Jennifer’s parents learned from their son-in-law that Jennifer was describing ritualistic abuse during her therapy sessions, they relocated to another state and joined the False Memory Syndrome Foundation.

The Greenes divorced sometime in the early ’90s. Jennifer claims her ex-husband had become physically and emotionally abusive, yet was granted full custody of both children. As documented in an article by Desborough, Wilder spun a whole web of conspiracies around the custody battle – murder, intimidation, you name it.

By this time, she was convinced that her children were also being subjected to ritual abuse.

Sometime during her lizard years, Wilder found the time to earn a nursing degree, and has worked as a nurse, on and off, since that time. In 1991, at her own request, she was placed on federal disability due to the effects of Satanic harassment, namely Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and depression. The harassment included not only menacing phone calls, but multiple instances of abduction, drugging, and electroconvulsive shock. She was often followed by strangers in Naval Intelligence vehicles. Wilder was also impregnated on three occasions by “unknown means”.

In her 2001 presentation, Wilder explained that she used journaling and artwork as part of her therapy and “memory retrieval” process. This is commonly heard from SRA survivors.

She appears much more animated and expressive in this presentation than in the Icke interview. She doesn’t hesitate as frequently. And most significantly, none of her graphic artwork (all done prior to 1995) features any hint of lizards, lizardmen, or anything vaguely reptilian. It does feature Soviet scientists, ghoulish-looking occultists, dolphins, and lots of other non-lizardy things. She pointed out that a woman depicted in one drawing had “slit pupils”, and explained that there was blood dripping from her hands and face because she had just consumed human blood.

Gradually, she got into the Reptilian material. She described seeing small, pet dragons in the dungeon of Pindar’s home in Alsace-Lorraine, and mentioned that she had shared this information with Icke. We can only assume that even Icke didn’t find this credible enough to include in Revelations of a Mother Goddess, because there’s absolutely nothing about tiny pet dragons in there. (2)

Some of Arizona’s weirder claims

Let’s be honest, here: This is all batshit insane. But a few things Arizona told Icke are just a shade battier than the rest of it.

She was introduced to Hitler in 1960. She gives few details of this encounter, and Icke is curiously uninterested. I guess once you meet Mengele and conduct Satanic rituals for lizardpeople from Mars, running into Hitler 15 years after his death isn’t really a big thing.

People with DID are “drug-resistant”; drugs have no effect on certain alters. Never mind that they share the same bloodstream, and an overdose would kill them all.

Like all DID slaves, she has a photographic memory. This is the same claim made by the first Monarch Project survivor, Cathy O’Brien, in 1995. Wilder’s eidetic memory is not at all evident in the Icke interview. At one point, she can’t recall the name of the French president who succeeded Charles de Gaulle, even though she supposedly saw him at Satanic rituals. And one of the most famous galleries on the planet is named after him. Desborough explains this: “The reason for her memory lapses is that mind-controlled victims who are programmed to serve as intelligence couriers are subjected to a surgical procedure known as “brain-stem scarring”, which permits certain alter-personalities to receive a photographic memory. For obvious reasons, the front alter is never programmed to have such a photographic memory. Since Ms. Wilder’s alters which possess such a memory capability were never accessed during the interview, (which would have required knowledge of the appropriate access code) she was unable to recall certain topics.”

The royal lizards revert to their Reptilian shapes when they fall asleep. As pointed out in a Trash City.org article on Wilder, this probably would have caught the attention of Prince Charles’s bunkmates at boarding school and in the military.

The Ark of the Covenant is under the control of the Illuminati, secreted in Egypt. Ark mock-ups are used in a certain Illuminati ritual. (2)

In the four years after Revelevations of a Mother Goddess was released, Wilder gave a few presentations at New Age/conspiracy gatherings and was interviewed by conspiranoid radio hosts on several occasions. She is one of the very few people in this series who has not wholly embraced fundamentalist Christianity, but her anti-Pagan stance sets her far apart from the average New Age believer.

Brian Desborough, for one, was disappointed by the public reaction. In a weird and rambling essay about various conspiracies, he wrote that it had been his hope that the “public revelations concerning Illuminati matters provided by former Mother Goddess Arizona Wilder, would have prompted other Illuminati bloodline mind-controlled survivors to go public with their exposes. With one exception, this has not occurred. This is because other survivors who could verify the authenticity of Ms. Wilder’s claims have been deterred by the vile invective directed toward Ms. Wilder on this website [forum] by incredibly ill-informed individuals, who hypocritically end their vitriolic and racist E-Mail messages with the word ‘love’.”

It’s true that not everyone in the lizardpeople-from-Mars conspiracy subculture accepted Wilder’s stories. Some noted she had a hypnotized or drugged look about her in the video, while others simply didn’t find her Satanic blood-orgy tales convincing. One of Icke’s close associates at the time, Ivan Fraser, was openly skeptical about nearly everything she had to say, and felt that Icke had been set up by Illuminati-linked conspirators eager to discredit him. For the most part, however, Icke fans accepted Wilder’s account at face value.

Arizona Today: No More Lizards

In an open letter posted to the blog Silence is Betrayal last June, Jennifer Kealey lays out what she now believes really happened to her. And it does not involve lizards. If Jennifer Nagel wasn’t abused by Mengele, lizards and witches, then what did happen to her?

In her current version of her life story, Jennifer was genetically engineered and assigned to the Nagel family by Dr. Wilder Penfield, the famous neurosurgeon then based at Montreal’s McGill University. Penfield was involved in the CIA’s MK-ULTRA program, according to Mrs. Kealey.

As part of Penfield’s memory research, he induced multiple personalities in young Jennifer via ritualistic trauma. This trauma included Satanism and alleged sexual abuse by her own father (who, in this version, appears to be her biological dad), and was continued into her adulthood by military officials and a group of Benedictine monks (Catholics play a big role in Satanic conspiracies, as we had already seen in the stories of John Todd and Bill Schnoebelen).

In 1998, she was abducted and subjected to “huge amounts of electric shock by unknown perpetrators (which resulted in a hospitalization)”. Though she didn’t realize it at the time, she was being mentally manipulated in advance of her interview with David Icke, who is part of the Satanic conspiracy network Kealey calls The System. It is now her belief that the unknown perpetrators programmed her with false Reptilian stories and guided her in Icke’s direction, in order to shield The System behind a smokescreen of bizarre disinformation. She doesn’t explain precisely how Icke and the other conspirators got her to regurgitate their Reptilian disinfo, or why she gave a 2001 lecture on the topic outside Icke’s presence. Was she hypnotized, or drugged, or was an alter brought forward?

At any rate, she was at least partly conscious of what occurred during the filming of Revelations of a Mother Goddess, because she explains that prior to the interview, she was instructed by Icke not to gesture with her hands, which seems to account for her wooden demeanor in the video. She was also forced to remove her glasses, so she was not able to see very well.

Kealey maintains that she was being prepared for her lizardpeople disinformation role as early as 1996, and was even programmed to change her name to “Arizona Wilder”, “Wilder” being Dr. Penfield’s first name and Arizona State University being one of the institutions that supposedly carried on his diabolical mind-tampering research.



Continues at: http://swallowingthecamel.wordpress.com ... s-part-ii/
Last edited by American Dream on Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Mason I Bilderberg » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:52 pm

Project Willow » Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:28 pm wrote:This thread is headed for lockdown unless participants here cease making disruptive posts about each other, and return to discussing issues.

That means everybody.

C_W, unless someone says a post is about you, assume it isn't, or inquire, do not respond immediately with ad-hominens.

AD, it is perfectly adequate for you to state your opinions on the destructive nature of Icke's mythology without singling out other posters here about their beliefs. In fact, it's highly advisable, given that your focus on the presumed beliefs of others has resulted in a great deal of acrimony, and distraction from, rather than discussion of your concerns.

There are plenty of open doors and opportunities to repair existing rifts. I encourage all parties to embark upon that process, preferably via pm.


:thumbsup
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Mason I Bilderberg » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:58 pm

Elvis » Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:23 pm wrote:
Mason I Bilderberg » Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:41 am wrote:
Elvis » Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:11 pm wrote:


That's about the dumbest thing I've heard all day.


Exactly.


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Is that Bush and Cheney????? :evilgrin
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Mason I Bilderberg » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:04 pm

stillrobertpaulsen » Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:26 pm wrote:
Project Willow » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:28 pm wrote:This thread is headed for lockdown unless participants here cease making disruptive posts about each other, and return to discussing issues.


Please lock this motherfucking POS thread. It has outlived its usefulness, if it ever had any, and is a GODDAMN EMBARRASSMENT to see at the top of the General Discussion page every fucking day I've checked in of late. And yes, this is the only post I'll make on this shitty thread. The sooner it is locked, the better off General Discussion will be.


For what a newbie's opinion is worth, this is what i would call a healthy and robust debate. This debate is emotionally charged for the better and i am learning a lot. So many forums are full of fluff. You guys have some intense information flying around. Maybe because you're all regulars you don't see what i'm seeing.

I'm against locking this down.

$.02 :basicsmile
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:13 pm

This cat has been a veritable geyser of substantive contributions.









Mason I Bilderberg » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:58 pm wrote:
Is that Bush and Cheney????? :evilgrin


Really appreciate the depth, man. Stick around.
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Mason I Bilderberg » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:24 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:13 pm wrote:Really appreciate the depth, man. Stick around.


Follow the flow chart kid:
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Canadian_watcher » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:56 pm

AD, Mason I Bilderberg, Brekin:

Do you believe that I am an anti-semite or not?
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Project Willow » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:15 pm

American Dream » 08 Jul 2013 17:49 wrote:
The Prodigal Witch Part XVI: Illuminati Slaves (Part II)

Arizona Wilder

For a few years, an American woman known as Arizona Wilder straddled the wavy line between Satanic/Illuminati high priestess and Satanic ritual abuse survivor, giving the impression that if Josef Mengele had not screwed with her head, she would never have presided over hideous blood rituals for the lizard people who govern our planet.



I feel I need to say, can we have some measure of sensitivity around this issue? What is the point of this dredging up of a case that is not exemplary, that is almost surely one in which the whistleblower was manipulated and so the story made ripe for discrediting? I do not doubt you understand the mindfuck that is MC, and the mindfuckery involved and/or unleashed in response to coming forward, so why post this if not for the immediate effect of scoring points against your perceived opponents? Where is your compassion for this woman? Where is your compassion for other survivors in encouraging this type of focus on this case? Anyone of us could have ended up like she, but for the grace of, who knows what.
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby American Dream » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:17 pm

Canadian_watcher » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:56 pm wrote:AD, Mason I Bilderberg, Brekin:

Do you believe that I am an anti-semite or not?


I believe that working seriously on one's thinking about race, class, ethnicity, religion, oppression, and liberation is almost always of benefit and I have seen no indication that you want to perpetuate oppression. I don't think you believe anti-Semitism is a good thing but it still could be good to work some on these issues.
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby American Dream » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:38 pm

Project Willow » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:15 pm wrote:
American Dream » 08 Jul 2013 17:49 wrote:
The Prodigal Witch Part XVI: Illuminati Slaves (Part II)

Arizona Wilder

For a few years, an American woman known as Arizona Wilder straddled the wavy line between Satanic/Illuminati high priestess and Satanic ritual abuse survivor, giving the impression that if Josef Mengele had not screwed with her head, she would never have presided over hideous blood rituals for the lizard people who govern our planet.



I feel I need to say, can we have some measure of sensitivity around this issue? What is the point of this dredging up of a case that is not exemplary, that is almost surely one in which the whistleblower was manipulated and so the story made ripe for discrediting? I do not doubt you understand the mindfuck that is MC, and the mindfuckery involved and/or unleashed in response to coming forward, so why post this if not for the immediate effect of scoring points against your perceived opponents? Where is your compassion for this woman? Where is your compassion for other survivors in encouraging this type of focus on this case? Anyone of us could have ended up like she, but for the grace of, who knows what.


Just added a trigger warning at the top. After Searcher posted the article about Arizona Wilder accusing David Icke as being part of the network of handlers that led her to disseminate disinformation, I realized that a more detailed account was important to this thread. I don't know of another thorough rendering of the story.
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Project Willow » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:45 pm

^ IOW, I don't think using an MC victim as a tool to discredit Icke because he is harming the cause of MC victims, among other things, is a coherent strategy, not mention an ethical one.
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby American Dream » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:51 pm

Project Willow » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:45 pm wrote:^ IOW, I don't think using an MC victim as a tool to discredit Icke because he is harming the cause of MC victims, among other things, is a coherent strategy, not mention an ethical one.


Can you say something about what your thoughts are on Icke overall?
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Project Willow » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:56 pm

Oh, come on.

I'm gonna rename this thread "Deflection 101"
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Project Willow » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:02 am

IOW, I don't think it's worth using a magnifying glass on Arizona Wilder to impugn Icke any more than he can already be impugned with what is verifiable about him, and whats more, you've set yourself up in opposition to what Searcher posted, none of which can be verified, and in the interim the focus is highlighting a case of MC that is easy for skeptics to discredit. It's a no win scenario, and, in my opinion, not worthy of the personal cost to Ms. Wilder herself, and other survivors by extension.
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