Trayvon Martin

[jcivil]

The tragedy of this whole debacle is many-fold.

Crime culture of desperation. Gated communities, consumer culture.

Within this state and its gun culture comes the "stand your ground law".

Within this comes Zimmerman, and here is the tragedy:

He was out there protecting Trayvon.

He was risking his life and giving his time to protect Trayvon.

Then he stalked what he thought an intruder.

Trayvon, being stalked by a "creepy ass cracker" decided

TO STAND HIS GROUND

and he stood up to the stalker who was just trying to protect his community

Zim should have shouted "neighborhood watch!"

Trayvon should have replied, "Yo, I live over there."

And it should have ended there.

It did not.

Zim should have gone down for manslaughter, been given two years and got out after fourteen months.

Because he did not "stand his ground" he pursued.

Trayvon stood his ground, so it sounds like a sorta shit law.

Sad, sad, sad.

[8bitagent]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerm ... eNmsfIufet

George Zimmerman will get his gun back now that he has been cleared of murder and his lawyer said today that Zimmerman needs the weapon "even more" than before.

Zimmerman's lawyer Mark O'Mara also practically dared the family of Trayvon Martin to file a widely expected civil suit against him, but said that Zimmerman might be filing lawsuits of his own.

[compared2what?]

White people need to figure out that we're all "black" now.

Where does that leave black people then? At an even lower range of expendability, that's where. And also: no, they aren't. Not even close. That notion doesn't leave much wiggle room for a variety of privilege which continues to exist even below the 1% mark.

Now you're black? Talk about liberal.

Examine your opinion of this trial: Zimmerman got off because he killed a black youth, and he's almost white, sort of. Even if I don't really think that's what happened here, I agree with the general terms of your outrage, past and ongoing.

Anyway. Agree.

Yes, but...

The unofficial criminal penalty for shooting black people in this country is a sentence of somewhere between Nothing and Maybe-a-Trial-But-Don't-Worry-They'll-Acquit. (Unless the shooter is also black.) Been that way for as long as I can remember.

This stays the same while the disregard for the rule of law by those entrusted to uphold it devolves to encompass all citizens. We are all secondary to the needs of empire and the security state, but we are decidedly not all black.

I was agreeing with the concept of solidarity among the secondary-to-the-needs-of-empire-and-the-security-state classes.

Decidedly, we are not all black. For example: All people are not equally likely to go the same way Trayvon Martin did. But some are a lot more equally likely than others.

...

The racism in this country is insane. But practically invisible to most (non-black) Americans most of the time, evidently. Oh, well. That's what unofficial segregation does for ya, I guess.
_________________

Oh, yeah. Almost forgot.

The media built this whole event into a white-versus-black circus in order to sell papers. As a result, the prosecution thought they'd have a slam-dunk on a 2nd degree.

I'm not so sure that's what happened. Because (as I'm sure everyone recalls), they didn't prosecute because they thought they had a slam-dunk case. They prosecuted because Benjamin Crump (on behalf of Trayvon Martin's family) orchestrated a very successful high-pressure political and media campaign to bring that about. And I'm sure both he and they wanted to see Zimmerman tried for murder. I can't blame them for that. It's what it would have been if their races had been the other way around.

Anyway. I kind of suspect the prosecution might have known it wasn't a sure thing. I mean, they weren't going to charge him at all, initially. District Attorneys like to win. Very competitive types. Plus they frequently have higher political ambitions.

[compared2what?]

We are all secondary to the needs of empire and the security state, but we are decidedly not all black.

Only if you take what I said literally. The way we are treated by the 1% of the 1% is the same. And they honestly don't care what race any of us are.

That I can't agree with. However...

We're all untermenschen to them.

...Agree! But wait a minute...

And whites can understand the "new world order" if they look at how blacks have been treated in the past. That's how we're all going to be treated now.

...Now I disagree again! Like you care, I know!

Yes, within the 99.9% of course there is still intraracial racism. But that wasn't my point.

Seriously, though, the truth is I guess I'm not clear on what you're saying. "We're all untermenschen" makes self-explanatory sense to me; wave of the future, income disparity, etc.

But "white is the new black"....I don't know. First of all, as barracuda said, what then happens to blacks? I mean, that would have to be one hell of an equalizing shift:

There are vast differences in wealth across racial groups in the United States. The wealth gap between white and African-American families nearly tripled from $85,000 in 1984 to $236,500 in 2009.

(LINK)


And besides, the exploitation of racial inequality/racism for purposes of social control is one of the longest-standing and most reliable gambits the PTB have got in this country. So all else aside, I just can't see them giving it up. Especially not when the economy's on the decline.

I think I must be misunderstanding you, though.

[Hunter]

Link please for this last story.

Based on his recorded comments alone, we would have good enough evidence to assume GZ was racist. Reading a summary of his father's disgraceful book pretty much seals the deal.

YOPJ

If you are referring to the story 8bit posted about the kid killed, he was the son of of suspected terrorist he was in the car with his father on vacation and Obama ordered a drone strike to kill the father and the son was in the car with him, I am ashamed to admit I cant remember the name now, was it Alwaki or something. Horrible, horrible situation.


8bit can fill us in, I cant remember those arabs names well I am sad to admit, there are so many of them we have villified I cant keep up anymore but this particular story that 8bit referenced was just about as horrible as it gets when speaking of war crimes.

[82_28]

The tragedy of this whole debacle is many-fold.

Crime culture of desperation. Gated communities, consumer culture.

Within this state and its gun culture comes the "stand your ground law".

Within this comes Zimmerman, and here is the tragedy:

He was out there protecting Trayvon.

He was risking his life and giving his time to protect Trayvon.

Then he stalked what he thought an intruder.

Trayvon, being stalked by a "creepy ass cracker" decided

TO STAND HIS GROUND

and he stood up to the stalker who was just trying to protect his community

Zim should have shouted "neighborhood watch!"

Trayvon should have replied, "Yo, I live over there."

And it should have ended there.

It did not.

Zim should have gone down for manslaughter, been given two years and got out after fourteen months.

Because he did not "stand his ground" he pursued.

Trayvon stood his ground, so it sounds like a sorta shit law.

Sad, sad, sad.

This is exactly right. Exactly.

[82_28]

My best friend was murdered premeditatedly in Denver some years back. He was a fighter. Sure. Fair enough. He's a white dude. Was a white dude -- he no longer dwells as we do here on Earth together -- I hadn't seen him in years, but he got his throat slashed in the middle of a street in Denver because he threw somebody out of a bar who was acting up and then went home and grabbed a knife and came back to kill him.

What I am saying is, is that it is not a RACE THING! Ugh! It is a kill thing and it is rampant in this motherfucking "society" we call "homeland". Yes, motherfucking race issues exist. But the act of killing any entity is something else. And for it to go unpunished, means that, murder is unpunished and the "forensics" are left up the database and experts.

Total travesty.

But, we got a football season to check out.

He was killed on the night of the Superbowl. The first time I met his daughter was the first time the Broncos won the Superbowl. She was a few days old. I gave her my watch upon his funeral.

Fuck, I hate this motherfucking careless world. Last I saw her she was just a girl that had her dad just motherfucking killed.

[compared2what?]

He was killed on the night of the Superbowl. The first time I met his daughter was the first time the Broncos won the Superbowl. She was a few days old. I gave her my watch upon his funeral.

Fuck, I hate this motherfucking careless world. Last I saw her she was just a girl that had her dad just motherfucking killed.

I'm sorry for your loss, 82_28. That was a righteous thing to do. A star in your crown in heaven.

[8bitagent]

Link please for this last story.

Based on his recorded comments alone, we would have good enough evidence to assume GZ was racist. Reading a summary of his father's disgraceful book pretty much seals the deal.

YOPJ

If you are referring to the story 8bit posted about the kid killed, he was the son of of suspected terrorist he was in the car with his father on vacation and Obama ordered a drone strike to kill the father and the son was in the car with him, I am ashamed to admit I cant remember the name now, was it Alwaki or something. Horrible, horrible situation.


8bit can fill us in, I cant remember those arabs names well I am sad to admit, there are so many of them we have villified I cant keep up anymore but this particular story that 8bit referenced was just about as horrible as it gets when speaking of war crimes.

While his dad was a suspected al Qaeda guru of sorts, the kid himself was just a boringly normal suburban American teen. He was killed two weeks after his father Anwar al-Awlaki was killed in a drone strike. Now, I wrote a piece on this forum in 2007 why I felt that Anwar was a protected useful asset for the powers that be even before 9/11, but it turns out the son was more into video games, the mall and girls than "jihad".

Essentially the story goes that Abdulrahman snuck out while on vacation in Yemen, essentially to look for his dad. He knew his dad was on a kill list, so we wanted to at least say hi since the boy had not seen his dad in two years. One day he sneaks out of the house to basically have a makeshift picnic of sorts at the side of a road with some of the boys he had met in Yemen. This was two weeks after the CIA killed his dad, tho the kid had no clue about that. When BOOM! A drone comes and blows the lads to smithereens. Probably video game piloted by some a white guy in an air conditioned office sipping on a diet coke who had plans to watch netflix with the misses.
To me its Trayvon Martin on a global scale carried out by the Obama administration. Its also why I dont shed a single tear for events like the Camp Chapman bombing in Afghanistan, other than feeling sorry for the loss of any human life that happens.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... an/276276/

And here's Obama press secretary smugly defending the killing of this kid, basically saying "Well, that's what ya get for having a terrorist dad"
Thats essentially like saying the US justice department can kill Gotti's son or something even if the son has zero to do with organized crime.
Theres times the Obama administration comes off as bad or sometimes worse than the Bush era. Just in the smugness

[8bitagent]

My best friend was murdered premeditatedly in Denver some years back. He was a fighter. Sure. Fair enough. He's a white dude. Was a white dude -- he no longer dwells as we do here on Earth together -- I hadn't seen him in years, but he got his throat slashed in the middle of a street in Denver because he threw somebody out of a bar who was acting up and then went home and grabbed a knife and came back to kill him.

What I am saying is, is that it is not a RACE THING! Ugh! It is a kill thing and it is rampant in this motherfucking "society" we call "homeland". Yes, motherfucking race issues exist. But the act of killing any entity is something else. And for it to go unpunished, means that, murder is unpunished and the "forensics" are left up the database and experts.

Total travesty.

But, we got a football season to check out.

He was killed on the night of the Superbowl. The first time I met his daughter was the first time the Broncos won the Superbowl. She was a few days old. I gave her my watch upon his funeral.

Fuck, I hate this motherfucking careless world. Last I saw her she was just a girl that had her dad just motherfucking killed.

I agree. Be it that white kid who was attacked and burned randomly by black kids as "revenge" for Trayvon, or black youth killed by black youth in Chicago, or women killed by their abusive husbands, or people snapping and going on shooting sprees, or "honor killings" in Pakistan or our own government George Zimmermanning with drones all across the Middle East against Arab Trayvons, all this shit is just sickening

Specifically, the super macho BULLSHIT of drunken fighting as well as gang related shit is such a tarnish on America. In my city theres been a number of deaths by dumb fratboy jocks beating people to death outside of bars
as well as random drive bys(tho thankfully nowhere near the level of cities 90 minutes away

Shit, forget the disproporationate amount of deaths by young black males...what about the percentage of homicides and violence in America caused by males in general? Half the population yet the majority of offenders? Amped up alfa Macho shit just makes me sick.

[Luther Blissett]

What the verdict illustrates is not justice or due process, it's the institutional racism that infiltrates juries, district attorneys' offices, courts, and prosecutors.

A black, innocent, unarmed little boy was gunned down, and his white-passing/white murderer was set free. The trial surreally came to be about finding the dead guilty.

[Hunter]

My best friend was murdered premeditatedly in Denver some years back. He was a fighter. Sure. Fair enough. He's a white dude. Was a white dude -- he no longer dwells as we do here on Earth together -- I hadn't seen him in years, but he got his throat slashed in the middle of a street in Denver because he threw somebody out of a bar who was acting up and then went home and grabbed a knife and came back to kill him.

What I am saying is, is that it is not a RACE THING! Ugh! It is a kill thing and it is rampant in this motherfucking "society" we call "homeland". Yes, motherfucking race issues exist. But the act of killing any entity is something else. And for it to go unpunished, means that, murder is unpunished and the "forensics" are left up the database and experts.

Total travesty.

But, we got a football season to check out.

He was killed on the night of the Superbowl. The first time I met his daughter was the first time the Broncos won the Superbowl. She was a few days old. I gave her my watch upon his funeral.

Fuck, I hate this motherfucking careless world. Last I saw her she was just a girl that had her dad just motherfucking killed.

I agree. Be it that white kid who was attacked and burned randomly by black kids as "revenge" for Trayvon, or black youth killed by black youth in Chicago, or women killed by their abusive husbands, or people snapping and going on shooting sprees, or "honor killings" in Pakistan or our own government George Zimmermanning with drones all across the Middle East against Arab Trayvons, all this shit is just sickening

Specifically, the super macho BULLSHIT of drunken fighting as well as gang related shit is such a tarnish on America. In my city theres been a number of deaths by dumb fratboy jocks beating people to death outside of bars
as well as random drive bys(tho thankfully nowhere near the level of cities 90 minutes away

Shit, forget the disproporationate amount of deaths by young black males...what about the percentage of homicides and violence in America caused by males in general? Half the population yet the majority of offenders? Amped up alfa Macho shit just makes me sick.

A lot of people believe male violence is the result of living in a sexually oppressive society, now I dont know if that is true nor am I endorsing it but I have read about it and heard several professors in college suggest there is some link between male violence and male sexual oppression, in otherwords, men arent getting laid enough and it somehow causes them to be more violent and agressive, but please before any of you ladies jump my ass I am not endorsing this or saying it is true, I am only bringing it up as a matter of discussion and as something that has been discussed by people of far greater intelligence and understanding than I.

What do you think of that?

[compared2what?]

A lot of people believe male violence is the result of living in a sexually oppressive society, now I dont know if that is true nor am I endorsing it but I have read about it and heard several professors in college suggest there is some link between male violence and male sexual oppression, in otherwords, men arent getting laid enough and it somehow causes them to be more violent and agressive, but please before any of you ladies jump my ass I am not endorsing this or saying it is true, I am only bringing it up as a matter of discussion and as something that has been discussed by people of far greater intelligence and understanding than I.

What do you think of that?

I'm confused.



So. If this theoretical correspondence between male violence and male sexual oppression, (herein somewhat quirkily defined by several college professors as "not getting laid enough") is a happening thing, who wasn't getting laid enough? Zimmerman?

[Hunter]

A lot of people believe male violence is the result of living in a sexually oppressive society, now I dont know if that is true nor am I endorsing it but I have read about it and heard several professors in college suggest there is some link between male violence and male sexual oppression, in otherwords, men arent getting laid enough and it somehow causes them to be more violent and agressive, but please before any of you ladies jump my ass I am not endorsing this or saying it is true, I am only bringing it up as a matter of discussion and as something that has been discussed by people of far greater intelligence and understanding than I.

What do you think of that?

I'm confused.



So. If this theoretical correspondence between male violence and male sexual oppression, (herein somewhat quirkily defined by several college professors as "not getting laid enough") is a happening thing, who wasn't getting laid enough? Zimmerman?

No it was not about Zimmerman specifically, the poster mentioned a high rate of make violence in general to which many 'intellectuals', sociologists, psychologists etc have suggested that there may be a connection between male violence and sexual oppression. As I clearly indicated I am no expert on the subject other than some discussions about such back in my college days and having read various articles and theories about such by happenstance on the internet here and there. I am sure if you are interested in understanding those who believe in such a thing a simple google search about male violence and sexual oppression would probably bring up up enough reading to at least get you up to speed about it and help with your confusion. I really cant comment on it personally, I am not violent and I have a wonderful non oppressive sex life wit my better half but like I said there are plenty of people who study such things that have suggested a link between the two and I simply brought it up in response to 8bits seeming curiosity as to way we see so many more males committing violent crimes as opposed to females, while that theory may not be the reason, I am sure there is some reason for it and that might just be as good an explanation as any. I do recall one professor mentioning, and again I have no idea how true this is, that ancient Roman society was a lot less violent in many ways than our own society today because sex was not as taboo as it is now.


Besides that I dont particularly see Zimmerman as a violent person, there were circumstances that resulted in some violence that evening but I dont think he had any notable history of being a violent person and not to put the victim on trial here but TM did himself have some history of such but nothing that I wouldnt expect from many kids his age.

[American Dream]