Dehumanizing Nature of False Accusations of Anti-Semitism

[seemslikeadream]

no but you could site some others 3 people don't do it for me...there' s plenty more out there...surely you know more than that off the top of your head

That's why I asked you who else in particular you would name. Your response was the Reagan article.

your turn

[seemslikeadream]

Miko Peled: How to counter false accusation of anti-semitism


Miko Peled Seattle. Oct. 1, 2012

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miko_Peled

Born and raised in Jerusalem in 1961, Peled grew up in a prominent Zionist family; his grandfather signed Israel’s Declaration of Independence. His father, Mattityahu Peled, fought in the 1948 war and served as a general in the war of 1967; later, after the Israeli cabinet ignored his investigation of a brutal 1967 Israeli war crime, he became a peace activist and leading proponent of an Israeli dialogue with the PLO. He condemned the Israeli military for illegally seizing the West Bank, Gaza, Sinai and the Golan Heights, calling the war a "cynical campaign of territorial expansion".[2] He was marginalized and shunned for his activism and call for a two-state solution. Miko Peled followed his father’s footsteps at first, joining Israel’s Special Forces after high school and earning the red beret, but he soon grew to regret his decision. He surrendered his status as soon as he earned it, becoming a medic, and finally, disgusted by the 1982 Lebanon invasion, he buried his service pin in the dirt.[3] He then distanced himself from activism until 1997, becoming a sixth-degree black belt in karate and moving first to Japan, then to San Diego.[4]

Activism[edit source | editbeta]

In 1997, Peled’s 12-year-old niece Smadar was killed in a suicide attack in Jerusalem; this tragedy, and his sister Nurit’s insistence that it was caused by the occupation, inspired Peled to closely examine the history of Palestine and Israel and became the starting point for his life-long activism.[5] He came to the conclusion that the two-state solution his father had promoted would no longer suffice, and he now advocates for the creation of a single democratic state with equal rights for Israelis and Palestinians.[6] He claims that the current situation is an apartheid regime that must go, and that a single-state solution is closer than many people think because of the changing mindsets of many Israelis, American Jews, and holocaust survivors. He has travelled in Palestine, teaching karate to children in refugee camps and doing nonviolent activism, and this once led to his detainment by Israeli soldiers for illegally entering Area A.[7] He left his karate school to go on tour, speaking about his experiences and promoting his book; he has given lectures in the US, Canada, Australia, and the UK, and he has plans to visit New Zealand and Malaysia. He also authors a blog that is dedicated to creating peace between Israelis and Palestinians, to tearing down Israel’s separation wall, and advocating equal rights for Israelis and Palestinians.[8]

[American Dream]

It sounds like there's lots of common ground here but there's a more difficult question:

If it's true that those using "anti-Zionism" as as cover for racist judeophobia include Israel Shamir, Willis Carto, Henry Makow, Jeff Rense, Friz Springmeier, Michael Hoffman etc., then doesn't this same principle hold true for David Icke and Gilad Atzmon? If not, what is different and/or better about them in particular?

[seemslikeadream]

It sounds like there's lots of common ground here but there's a more difficult question:

If it's true that those using "anti-Zionism" as as cover for racist judeophobia include Israel Shamir, Willis Carto, Henry Makow, Jeff Rense, Friz Springmeier, Michael Hoffman etc., then doesn't this same principle hold true for David Icke and Gilad Atzmon? If not, what is different and/or better about them in particular?

save it for your threads ....please...do you ALWAYS have to do that...I guess so...you will NEVER change..good bye

thanks for doing what you do best bringing those names into every frickin thread you can..THAT'S WHAT YOU LIVE FOR HERE...EVREY FRICKING TIME

How many times will AD mention those names in this thread? I'm taking bets...repeating them doesn't make them count for more

we have but a scintilla of common ground and that is fading fast..again I have little to speak with you about so I am done replying to you

[American Dream]

It sounds like there's lots of common ground here but there's a more difficult question:

If it's true that those using "anti-Zionism" as as cover for racist judeophobia include Israel Shamir, Willis Carto, Henry Makow, Jeff Rense, Friz Springmeier, Michael Hoffman etc., then doesn't this same principle hold true for David Icke and Gilad Atzmon? If not, what is different and/or better about them in particular?

save it for your threads ....please...do you ALWAYS have to do that...I guess so...you will NEVER change..good bye

thanks for doing what you do best bringing those names into every frickin thread you can

I am asking a reasonable question and looking for a reasonable answer because I think logic would compel us to accept that if the former are racists, then the last two are too.

If you have another point of view, I'm inviting you to say it. If you have a different sort of logic, please share it because i sure ain't getting it...

Why did that question strike such a raw nerve that you won't say what you think about those two in particular?

[seemslikeadream]

save it for your threads ....please...do you ALWAYS have to do that...I guess so...you will NEVER change..good bye

thanks for doing what you do best bringing those names into every frickin thread you can..THAT'S WHAT YOU LIVE FOR HERE...EVREY FRICKING TIME

How many times will AD mention those names in this thread? I'm taking bets...repeating them doesn't make them count for more

we have but a scintilla of common ground and that is fading fast..again I have little to speak with you about so I am done replying to you

Done .....finished ...completed..... exhausted .....kaput .....through...bitten the dust...expired..ended ....spent ......terminated....wrapped up.... drained....consummated....buttoned up...all over

[Searcher08]

Those using spurious charges of anti-Semitism to defend hawkish policies of the settler colonialist State of Israel would include Abe Foxman, Phyllis Chesler, the ADL, Alan Dershowitz etc.

Those using "anti-Zionism" as as cover for racist judeophobia include Israel Shamir, Willis Carto, Henry Makow, Jeff Rense, Friz Springmeier, Michael Hoffman, and many others in and beyond the conspiracy community.

Neither faction is worthy of respect to me...

My issue of these two classes is that there should probably be at least five:


Class 1: Occult influenced / Fundamentalist Elites ecosystem
Extremely important - anything which points to this layer deserving the HIGHEST attention, overriding all Classes except Class 2. Anyone or thing which attempts to blow smoke over, distract from investigating this Class gets put to the top of my shitlist:
Blackstone; Skull and Bones; Jimmy Saville milleiu, Muslim Brotherhood; Bildeberg; Rothschilds; CFR; MetaGroups (Peter Dale Scott)


Class 2: Corrupt fascist 'America is Israel's poodle' scumbags
Very evil, powerful corrupt traitorous oligosociopathocrats. Often MIC whores.
Likud; Feinstein; Pelosi; AIPAC; JINSA; Media owners like Redstone; Zionist plutocrats; Fundies


Class 3: Professional 'anti-Semitism' club wielders
In general not so much evil but more 'when you only have a hammer, soon the whole world is made of nails' ; fear generators ;can be free speech suppressors eg Norman Finklestein's harrasment...
Abe Foxman, Phyllis Chesler, the ADL, Alan Dershowitz; Islam-hating skeptics - Sam Harris, Morris Dees SPLC

then a *massive* gap in influence and power and resources down to...


Class 4: Populist broadcasters / writers / Jewish culture / paraculture / alternative media sources
The place where I make my own mind up and have fiercely independent thought and find polemics patronising in extremis...
David Icke, Jeff Rense, Alex Jones, Gilad Atzmon, Red Ice, Tikkun, Zeitgeist Movement, Mondoweiss

then another huge gap on power and influence down to...


Class 5: Stormfrent twats
A class of people I see primarily driven by scars, fear and bigotry; not only evil people.
David Duke, Israel Shamir, Willis Carto, Fritz Springmeir, Michael Hoffman; Ernest Zundel, Henry PoorCow, IHR, EDL

These represent my perceived order of priority, influence and importance. I see the strategies for approaching each of these Classes as being very different.

This may be a useful model for looking at the board conflict.
My proposition is that there is actually a great deal in common at Class 1; I am unsure re Class 2; a lot in common at Class 3;

I think the main conflict is that one set of people are seeing figures like Icke Atzmon Jones Paul Zeitgeist as Class 4, the others as conflated with Class 5.

So for one set of people the conflict was about the marketplace of ideas and free exchange of information (Class 4) and for the other it was about fighting racist and anti-Semites (Class 5).


*whole piece edited for formatting and clarity

[Searcher08]

It sounds like there's lots of common ground here but there's a more difficult question:

If it's true that those using "anti-Zionism" as as cover for racist judeophobia include Israel Shamir, Willis Carto, Henry Makow, Jeff Rense, Friz Springmeier, Michael Hoffman etc., then doesn't this same principle hold true for David Icke and Gilad Atzmon? If not, what is different and/or better about them in particular?

No it doesnt, because your typology is too narrow, as I have illustrated.
(Please see my previous post, now edited for clarity)

AFAIK you have never been involved in exposing, investigating or looking into Class 1 or Class 2; Class 3 ADL etc - only in the broadest, most general terms, although you may have actually been involved fighting that more than you wish to disclose, which is fine.

It wouldnt suprise me if slad's biggest beef with you is the focus on Stormfenters to the exclusion of PelosiFeinsteinians...

[seemslikeadream]

Fury as Israel president claims English are 'anti-semitic'
Israel's president has accused the English of being anti-semitic and claimed that MPs pander to Muslim voters.

Israel's President Shimon Peres said that England's attitude towards Jews was Israel's "next big problem". Photo: REUTERS
By David Harrison and Adrian Blomfield in Jerusalem 9:00PM BST 31 Jul 2010
Shimon Peres said England was "deeply pro-Arab ... and anti-Israeli", adding: "They always worked against us."
He added: "There is in England a saying that an anti-Semite is someone who hates the Jews more than is necessary."
His remarks, made in an interview on a Jewish website, provoked anger from senior MPs and Jewish leaders who said the 87-year-old president had "got it wrong".
But other groups backed the former Israeli prime minister and said the number of anti-semitic incidents had risen dramatically in the UK in recent years.
The controversy follows the furore last week over David Cameron's remark that Gaza was a "prison camp", as he urged Israel to allow aid and people to move freely in and out of the Palestinian territory.

Mr Peres, a Nobel Peace Prize winner who is three years into his seven-year term as president and was awarded an honorary knighthood by the Queen in 2008, said that England's attitude towards Jews was Israel's "next big problem".
"There are several million Muslim voters, and for many members of parliament, that's the difference between getting elected and not getting elected," he said.
"And in England there has always been something deeply pro-Arab, of course, not among all Englishmen, and anti-Israeli, in the establishment.
"They abstained in the [pro-Zionist] 1947 UN partition resolution ... They maintained an arms embargo against us in the 1950s ... They always worked against us. They think the Arabs are the underdogs."
By contrast, relations with Germany, France and Italy were "pretty good", he added.
He made the comments in an interview with the historian Professor Benny Morris of Ben-Gurion University of the Negev published last week in Tablet, a Jewish news website.
The wide-ranging interview covered Mr Peres' role as one of Israel's longest-serving political leaders – an MP for 48 years, twice prime minister, and holder of other ministerial posts over the decades. He is firmly on the Israeli Left.
He was awarded Nobel Peace Prize in 1994 jointly with Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat for his part as foreign minister in the peace talks which produced the landmark Oslo Accords.
But following his comments, James Clappison, the Conservative MP for Hertsmere and vice-chairman of Conservative Friends of Israel, said: "Mr Peres has got this wrong.
"There are pro- and anti-Israel views in all European countries. Things are certainly no worse, as far as Israel is concerned, in this country than other European countries."
The MP added that he could "understand the frustration" that people in Israel felt with "certain elements of the British broadcast media" which present an unbalanced view of Israel.
He said: "I can understand Mr Peres' concerns, but I don't recognise what he is saying about England."
Yet in Israel, Mr Peres is far from alone in holding such views, which have gained a wider following, particularly on the Right, since the expulsion of an Israeli diplomat over accusations that Mossad sent agents using British passports to assassinate a Hamas commander in Dubai.
Aryeh Eldad, a right-wing member of the Israeli parliament, the Knesset, accused Britain of working against Israeli interests for decades – ever since it "betrayed" its promises to build a Jewish homeland when it governed Palestine under a League of Nations mandate.
"Both governments from the right and the left prefer Arab interests over Israeli interests," said Mr Eldad, whose father Israel was a leading figure in the Stern Gang, the most radical of the Jewish terror groups that fought British mandatory rule.
"The other layer is an ongoing, subtle form of anti-semitism. It is not as overt as it was in Germany, it is a quiet, polite form."
Some leading Jewish commentators in Britain disagreed. Rabbi Dr Jonathan Romain, minister of Maidenhead synagogue and a writer and broadcaster, said: "I am surprised at Peres. It is a sweeping statement that is far too one-sided.
"Britain has supported both Israel and Arab causes at different periods over the last 50 years. There are elements of anti-semitism but it is not endemic to British society.
"The tolerance and pluralism here make Britain one of the best countries in the world in which to live."
Mr Peres found support, however, from other pro-Israeli groups. Jacob Vince, the director of Christian Friends of Israel, said there was anti-semitism in the UK although many people had a positive view of Israel but were unwilling to express it publicly.
Mr Vince said it was "difficult to see how many MPs would not be influenced by the number of Muslim voters in their constituencies".
The Government was not treating Arabs as the underdogs but rather was trying to appease them, he said. "The question is how well they understand those with whom they are seeking conciliation."
Mr Peres is "measured and moderate," he added.
He said: "His comments have serious connotations and I am sure would not be said lightly."
One Israeli politician expressed disbelief that the doveish Mr Peres had launched such a broadside against the British.
Benny Begin, a cabinet minister whose father Menachem was prime minister and before that leader of Irgun, the group that killed 91 people in an attack on Jerusalem's King David Hotel in 1946, said: "Peres? I simply can't believe he said that."
The latest figures show that the number of anti-semitic incidents in Britain is rising, according to the Community Security Trust (CST), a charity set up in 1984 to monitor such incidents.
The situation in Britain had worsened "significantly" in the past decade, a spokesman said.
In 2009 there were 924 anti-semitic incidents, the highest figure since CST began keeping records in 1984, and 55 per cent higher than the previous record in 2006.
The figures include reports, accepted only when backed by evidence, of physical assaults, verbal abuse and racist graffiti.
The monthly figure has soared from 10-20 incidents in the 1990s to 40-50 now.
Last year nearly half of the 924 anti-semitic race attacks recorded by the CST showed a political motivation, with 66 per cent of those including some reference to Israel and the Middle East.
A 2009 report by the US-based Anti-Defamation League found one in five Britons admitted Israel influences their opinion of British Jews, and the majority of those said that they felt "worse" about Jews than they used to. It found, however, that Britain was less anti-semitic than other European countries.

[slimmouse]

Somewhat synconistichally again, in the light of this thread I listened to an interview on Red Ice last night, with a guy called Bill Still.

The idea that people who say "Bankers" or "the state of Israel, when they actually mean Jews, sure as hell got confusing, when you get to the part in the conversation where Still discusses how much in bondage "the Jewish state" is ( to quote Netanyahu) are to the Bankers. It really brings a whole new dimension to the concept of the self hater, since on the face of it, it would appear that the state of Israel itself is as much at the mercy of the Bankers as just about any place or people on earth you care to mention.

Heres the link for anyone interested.

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/20 ... 130826.php

[American Dream]

So are there objective standards which put Atzmon and Icke on the good side and yet relegate Shamir, Carto, Hoffman and Springmeier to the bad end of things?

Because if so, I think we'd all benefit from hearing about those principles...

[seemslikeadream]

Ok ...here's the deal...and since AD has decided to once again shove his thread in my face ..I decided to post this now instead of waiting any longer

I am NOT anti-semitic...PERIOD

There are NO anti-semites posting at RI that I am aware of.....PERIOD

I RESENT TO THE MAX the vicious... cunning.... deceitful way one person (and crew following in his footsteps) here has continued to label me and a couple of my very good long time Rigorous Intuition friends as raving anti-semites because of some of the things they occasionally read and post here. This board is known for Jeff's extreme adherence to no censorship rule which I admire to no end. The rules are clear (we do not need them repeated in every thread) and I for one have never seen anyone post the hatred that is forbidden....if there was I'm sure it was nipped in the bud by our fantastic mods. No one or two members of RI should be in charge of deciding what else should be posted here no matter how much they do not like it....if what they post is against the rules the mods would and should take care of it...no one should be scaring people off of here with their judgement of what should be read or posted at RI. NO one should be allowed to bullie people away because they post stuff they personally don't like....LEAVE THAT UP TO JEFF AND THE MODS

I have been posting on the internet for over 10 years now...40,000 posts at Democratic Underground...713 posts at Democratic Warrior....10,000 posts at Progressive Independent (later discovered to be a phony web site set up for who knows what really)...10,000 posts here at RI SINCE IT'S INCEPTION. That's 60,000 posts in 10 years..I have NEVER once posted anything that would be considered anti-semitic (in 60,000 posts I may have made an honest mistake or forgotten a post or two....I am not perfect and I am not the smartest person in the world so I may have inadvertently made an error and I regret that) I have NEVER posted under another name EVER.....I have never changed my name EVER.

I RESENT TO THE MAX that some one would come here and search all 60,000 of my posts on the internet to catch me in a lie... come up with 3 cases (questionable author that is all) and then say BUSTED!....Someone that has a post count of less than 100 RI posts.....has no record of THEIR OWN POSTS ON ANYTHING STANDING IN JUDGEMENT OF ME...Of course my life on the net is an open book and one is free to research it and publish the results but to then accuse me of being a raving anti-semite because of three posts is unbelievable.... juvenile.... absurd... insane... cruel.... hurtful... deceitful and down right mean spirited. Why was this done? Why go to so much trouble to try and destroy my standing here at RI? What is their agenda? If I may be so bold as to ask that question.

I am here for 2 reasons.....I come here every day to read what others post here for there are the most brilliant folks anywhere posting at RI and then I am compelled to post most everything I read on the internet that is of interest to me...I figure some one else here would like to see and sometimes I would like to know their opinion on some article ....NO OTHER AGENDA NO OTHER REASON.

In coming here every day for almost 10 years I began to.. ..about 6 years ago.... resent seeing a new thread started every other month (basicly on the same subject) on the front page like a beacon shinning in the night.... WARNING TO EVERY ONE NO ANTI-SEMITES ALLOWED... I find this ridiculous...absurd....bizarre... annoying and unnecessary ....if Jeff or the mods think it paramount then it should be pinned to the top...but since in 10 years they have not seen fit to do that...why in the world do we have to be bombarded with this shit? Why is it necessary? There aren't any anti-semites here and I have not seen any reason that anyone like that would start posting here and if they did they would soon be banned. No one here constantly posts the stuff that is routinely warned about in these OP's....why are these warnings needed ....why does the RI community have to constantly be subjected to the barrage of ominous...cautioning...monitorial OP's?


So there is the reasoning why I went off with all the caps...red letters... foul language.....I just had enough..I was pissed and was willing for THE FIRST TIME IN TENS YEARS to do something that would get me banned ....I never in ten years have been so mad as hell ..though it's been building for awhile I always had in the past controlled it.....So it was worth it for me to risk being taken out for a time to ruin my track record of 10 years to say exactly how much this angered me and to do it in a street fighting way.

In my mind I can think of 5 people here that do not like me..maybe there is more but they have not made that known to me...maybe there are more folks here that do not like what I post about but I bring a varied amount of stuff ..certainly not one note OP's..I have no agenda but a crazy obsession with reading...listening to anything and everything I can get my hands on and I share that ...sorry to those who think I post way too much...using RI as my personal blog ...if it's against the law or it pisses you off here let someone know.

Now I have said my peace and I am done with all of this....if one wants to continue this stupid saga...agenda...be my guest but I will no longer read or take part in the nonsense....no matter how baited I will certainly ....no doubt be.


Yours truly...very inquisitive... reading everything I can get my hands on...probably post most of it...what you see is what you get.... and as always
SLaD

[seemslikeadream]

Alan Dershowitz Defends Palin’s Use of “Blood Libel,” Says “Nothing Improper or Anti-Semitic About It”



Nice to know there are still a few honest libs out there.

Alan Dershowitz:

The term “blood libel” has taken on a broad metaphorical meaning in public discourse. Although its historical origins were in theologically based false accusations against the Jews and the Jewish People,its current usage is far broader. I myself have used it to describe false accusations against the State of Israel by the Goldstone Report. There is nothing improper and certainly nothing anti-Semitic in Sarah Palin using the term to characterize what she reasonably believes are false accusations that her words or images may have caused a mentally disturbed individual to kill and maim. The fact that two of the victims are Jewish is utterly irrelevant to the propriety of using this widely used term

[seemslikeadream]

Friday, March 22, 2013

Criticism of Israel is Not Anti-Semitic
Over the past week, a dangerous rumor has circulated accusing the Harvard College Palestine Solidarity Committee (PSC) of targeting Jewish students in its campaign to raise awareness about the demolition of Palestinian homes. We, the Harvard College Progressive Jewish Alliance, strongly refute these lies and affirm that Jewish students were not targeted. While we do not endorse PSC’s campaign, we support their right to draw attention to problematic Israeli policies and believe that flyering is a legitimate and reasonable way to do so.


As part of Harvard Israeli Apartheid Week, PSC flyered student dorms with mock eviction notices in order to raise awareness about the demolition of Palestinian homes in the Occupied Territories. Such flyering is a common means of advertising and campaigning utilized by a wide variety of student organizations. PSC placed these notices on all suite doors in any given dormitory. However, in response to these flyers, several publications began circulating the falsehood that PSC specifically targeted Jewish students in its campaign. This claim is completely wrong, and it is clear to students who live in the dorms that Jewish students were not targeted.


Moreover, several publications have accused PSC of employing anti-Semitic rhetoric in its campaign. These claims are baseless; as PSC affirms in a public statement on its website, these accusations “conflate [PSC’s] criticism of Israeli human rights violations with hatred of the Jewish people.” Indeed, in its mission, PSC “condemn[s] any hatred or discrimination against any racial, ethnic, or religious group." Anti-Semitism is a serious problem, and these claims minimize the seriousness of real anti-Semitism as well slander and harm the falsely accused.

We condemn all organizations and publications both within and outside Harvard that continue to spread lies about PSC, and we ask them to immediately publish corrections stating that PSC did not target Jewish students or engage in other anti-Semitic behavior. In light of the anti-Semitic and racist incidents at Oberlin College over the past month, we hope that individuals and organizations devoted to fighting anti-Semitism will not diminish the significance of true anti-Semitism by branding criticism of Israeli policies as anti-Semitic.

[slimmouse]

Anti-Semitism is a serious problem, and these claims minimize the seriousness of real anti-Semitism as well slander and harm the falsely accused.

Bingo. Thats what I call on topic. A consistent problem courtesy of the likes of Mr Dershowitz.

Having read Mr Dershowitz on a few occasions, along with having seen his perfomance on Democracy now with Norman Finklestein, I would suggest that the likes are "Proffessor" Dershowitz, Daniel Pipes, the list really does go on, are far more of a threat to the jewish civilisation, and indeed the rest of humanity the way things are going in the ME right now, than anyone that certain posters might care to mention.

Personal anecdote.

When I first read and joined the Epic of Gilad thread a while back now, I joined in courtesy of having just heard a mainstream interview featuring the honorable proffessor Dershowitz. I hadnt really read or heard virtually anything that Atzmon had written, or knew much about what all the fuss was about. What I did know however was that Dershowitz was considering a fellow Jew a self hater.

At the time, It was all the convincing I needed to tell me that this was probably therefore not the case. Do you see where Im going with that?


The funny thing is, I recently commented on a video that I'd seen featurning an interview with Atzmon, which left me feeling a little bewildered, to put it mildy. So had the good proffessor not informed me that heres a jewish guy who is clearly, in his own very esteemed opinion, a self hating anti semite, then courtesy of him previously being shall we say, a tad too economical with the truth, to put it mildly ( I mean WTF in their right mind would plagiarise the Joan Peters fairy story, for crying out) loud?), I might have at least had pause for thought and found out more, if in fact I could even have been really bothered.

The rest as they say is history. And a pretty interesting personal history at that, even if that really is another story.
Finally, in a related sort of way, I did find it interesting that to cite examples of Slads, antisemitism someone had managed to find 3 posts out of 60k, particularly in the light of everthing else thats been shown to be going on in world lately. But of course, theres absolutely no law against that now, is there?