How to Overthrow the Illuminati

[slimmouse]

Just read one random sentence which is about david Ickes illustrator ?

That was really helpful.

[American Dream]

I havent even read it because there is little doubt ive been grappling with this kind of stuff since the day you arrived here.

I want some recent criticism of Icke. I would really like you to watch some recent videos, or read a recent book, or listen to a recent radio broadcast.

Lets see if you find the same kind of copy pasta information about Icke that has probably been boring this board more recently.

Lets hear it from you AD.

I might not agree with you, but at least I will truly respect that.

The material you are avoiding is from May 28th of this year. Why don't you want to grapple with the specifics?

And the quotes and imagery contained within are from where and when? There Ive grappled with it.

Where exactly have you grappled with all of the above?

[Searcher08]

Do you think the EDL is a creation of the Mossad / MI6?
What do you make of the apparent confluence between Islamophobic fascists and militant zionists?
I found it fascinating and bizarre, especially the links with Kahane and Brevik.

[slimmouse]

Youre right AD. I need to apologise.

I might suggest that we should know all the facts about what is being claimed about Icke by finding out for ourselves, since you dont appear up to it.

On Edit, With all due respect, where neccesary to your sources of course.

[Sounder]

I agree that 'Illuminati theory' is a poor signifier for what is going on, conspirators after all, if they know nothing else, know well how to slink in the shadows.

We are all creatures of our context and I might well start by explaining about a few formative assumptions that have ever since colored my context.

After doing a biography on Leonardo Di Vinci in about the sixth grade or so, I became interested in medieval and early medieval history. (a few years later) in one book a somewhat passing reference was made to a wide scale and century long depression in the ninth century that was claimed by the author to result from the withdrawal of capital as a response to some nascent stirring for influence among a new merchant class. What struck me was the notion that there are people in this world that believe that they literally ‘own’ all things.

History seems to be made by asserting ownership claims that are fraudulent from top to bottom.

Like most people of my age and inclination I read Holy Blood, Holy Grail, and found a few more clues about these ownership aspirations. From way back in times where Kings and Church made total owner ship claims, there were a class of folk that administered the Kings or Churches money. As is sensible, in time these folk became jaded and in regard to the kings pretensions and found their interests to often align more so with other ‘prime ministers’ as much as with the King that they served. The prime minister handled the money, he knew where it came from, how it got there and where it went. For the most part the King simply looked on in wonder. (little snark)

In the fullness of time there has come to be two major and competing forces, both of which effectively believe that they either did or should own all things.

My initial impressions about communism were colored differently than those of modern progressive intellectuals. Where they saw an uprising of the common man, (because of previous reading) I saw a ploy to suppress pretenders to influence among the petite- bourgeoisie.

I don’t care much for class warfare and what people do is more relevant than what they say.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/h ... in-ukraine

Coerced Collectivization

Despite a communist push for collectivization, Ukraine's farms had mostly remained private — the foundation of their success. But in 1929, the Central Committee of the Soviet Union's Communist Party decided to embark on a program of total collectivization. Private farms were to be completely replaced by collectives — in Ukraine known as kolkhozes. This was, of course, consistent with Marxist ideology: the Communist Manifesto had called for abolition of private property.

Intense pressure was placed upon Ukrainian peasants to join the kolkhozes. Twenty-five thousand fanatical young communists from the USSR's cities were sent to Ukraine to compel the transition. These became known as the Twenty-Five Thousanders; each was assigned a particular locality, and was accompanied by a weapons-bearing communist entourage, including members of the GPU (secret police, forerunner of the KGB). A communist commission was established in each village.

Holodomor survivor Miron Dolot, in his book Execution by Hunger, describes what happened soon after a commission was started in his village by its Twenty-Five Thousander, Comrade Zeitlin:
We did not have to wait too long for Comrade Zeitlin's strategy to reveal itself. The first incident occurred very early on a cold January morning in 1930 while people in our village were still asleep. Fifteen villagers were arrested, and someone said that the Checkists [GPU] had arrived in the village at midnight....

The most prominent villagers were among those arrested.... This was frightening. Our official leadership had been taken away in one night. The farmers, mostly illiterate and ignorant, were thereby left much more defenseless.

The leaders of Dolot's village were never seen again.

To me this irony of communistic pretensions whereby a bunch of govt. paid bourgeoisie put to death by hunger ten million peasants who formed the breadbasket of the nation, forever exposes the flowery words of Marx et al to be a pack of lies. Effectively, if not intentionally from the start.


Comments on the OP to follow.

Maybe, if I feel like bothering.

[American Dream]

Do you think the EDL is a creation of the Mossad / MI6?
What do you make of the apparent confluence between Islamophobic fascists and militant zionists?
I found it fascinating and bizarre, especially the links with Kahane and Brevik.

I tend to see it as more tactical than essential to their cause. Here's also what I said in the New Europe thread:

I think it's important to be clear about what we really know and can prove and what we can't. That said, yes, the ties to racist zionist hawks are overt. While by definition covert ops are hard to prove, I see EDL as such a hot potato that I imagine "useful idiots" will be put to use by those who find them useful and I also believe that grassroots populist Fascism really does exist. So I'm imagining some kind of mix but unsure of all the ingredients.

[Searcher08]

Speculation ahead:

From various things I have read from folks like Ray McGovern most Intel agencies seem to have quite a number of factions within factions, who are playing their *own* games/ wheels within byzantine wheels, in the organisational equivalent of ARGs.
I think it is reasonable to assume that by thinking about the sort of people drawn to these Intel environments, we are talking about sociopathic folks; and we are not just dealing with 'Ponerology' individuals, but a self-created / reinforcing 'Ponerology' organisation / culture.
The wider culture as a sum of multiple, unknown-to-each-other, contradictory and lie-filled power and resource games.
Looking at the effects will drive a person crazy, because they are the intersecting interference waves produced by sociopathic 'ripples'.

Is it actually a question of diagnosing and geting rid of sociopaths from positions of political power?

[American Dream]

Speculation ahead:

From various things I have read from folks like Ray McGovern most Intel agencies seem to have quite a number of factions within factions, who are playing their *own* games/ wheels within byzantine wheels, in the organisational equivalent of ARGs.
I think it is reasonable to assume that by thinking about the sort of people drawn to these Intel environments, we are talking about sociopathic folks; and we are not just dealing with 'Ponerology' individuals, but a self-created / reinforcing 'Ponerology' organisation / culture.
The wider culture as a sum of multiple, unknown-to-each-other, contradictory and lie-filled power and resource games.
Looking at the effects will drive a person crazy, because they are the intersecting interference waves produced by sociopathic 'ripples'.

Is it actually a question of diagnosing and geting rid of sociopaths from positions of political power?

That may well be part of it but when there is a system in play that in effect rewards sociopathic behavior, it will also be necessary to fundamentally change that system.

Otherwise: "The Sociopath is dead, long live the Sociopath!"...

[Sounder]

AD wrote....
it will also be necessary to fundamentally change that system.

You say capitalism, I say coercion.

You are flogging a dead horse while mine is still running.








and remember;

[Sounder]

A cross post from vanlose kids excellent thread.

Yes, sure Adam was probably delusional, but still.



“Do you realize sufficiently what it means to rule - to rule in a secret society? Not only over the lesser or more important of the populace, but over the best of men, over men of all ranks, nations, and religions, to rule without external force, to unite them indissolubly, to breathe one spirit and soul into them, men distributed over all parts of the world? . . . And finally, do you know what secret societies are? What a place they occupy in the great kingdom of the world's events? Do you think they are unimportant, transitory appearances?”
- Adam Weishaupt, Nachtrag von weitern Originalschriften, II, pp. 44, 51.

http://therealoneilluminati.blogspot.co ... _1203.html

[Elvis]

http://www.social-ecology.org/1996/01/left-green-perspectives-35/

From Green Messiah to New Age Nazi

by Matthew Kalman and John Murray

Matthew Kalman and John Murray are editors of the eco-political investigative magazine Open Eye, which has been uncovering and exposing David Icke and “New Age Nazism.” Address: BM Open Eye, London WC1N 3XX. Issue 3 is available for £1.70.


It has been hard in recent years to ignore the rising popularity of almost everything that comes under the heading New Age. Yoga, meditation, Kabbalah, Buddhism, alternative medicine, environmentalism, and self-improvement, as well as an array of New Age therapies, have all gained in popularity, as have other fringe interests like UFOs and the paranormal, which often appeal to the same people. Few will have avoided at least some contact.

The movement even has its own stars. In Britain, David Icke, the TV sports commentator turned Green Party national spokesman turned purple-robed “Son of God,” is the best-known leader.

What this is saying is that yoga, meditation, Kabbalah, Buddhism, alternative medicine, environmentalism, self-improvement, UFOs and the paranormal are all part of a monolithic "movement" led by David Icke, and anyone who has not "avoided at least some contact" with these pernicious ideas is, if not already an anti-semitic Holocaust revisionist who reads the Spotlight, is in grave danger of being "enticed" onto the "anti-Semitic treadmill."

That's an enormous stretch, AD, do you really take such a claim seriously?

David Icke should be given a hard look, no question about that. His website forums are populated with real, actual nazis and Hitler-lovers. But -- practicing yoga leads to David Icke and the slippery antisemitic slope? Environmentalism?

This is starting to be outright offensive.

[American Dream]

http://www.social-ecology.org/1996/01/left-green-perspectives-35/

From Green Messiah to New Age Nazi

by Matthew Kalman and John Murray

Matthew Kalman and John Murray are editors of the eco-political investigative magazine Open Eye, which has been uncovering and exposing David Icke and “New Age Nazism.” Address: BM Open Eye, London WC1N 3XX. Issue 3 is available for £1.70.


It has been hard in recent years to ignore the rising popularity of almost everything that comes under the heading New Age. Yoga, meditation, Kabbalah, Buddhism, alternative medicine, environmentalism, and self-improvement, as well as an array of New Age therapies, have all gained in popularity, as have other fringe interests like UFOs and the paranormal, which often appeal to the same people. Few will have avoided at least some contact.

The movement even has its own stars. In Britain, David Icke, the TV sports commentator turned Green Party national spokesman turned purple-robed “Son of God,” is the best-known leader.

What this is saying is that yoga, meditation, Kabbalah, Buddhism, alternative medicine, environmentalism, self-improvement, UFOs and the paranormal are all part of a monolithic "movement" led by David Icke, and anyone who has not "avoided at least some contact" with these pernicious ideas is, if not already an anti-semitic Holocaust revisionist who reads the Spotlight, is in grave danger of being "enticed" onto the "anti-Semitic treadmill."

That's an enormous stretch, AD, do you really take such a claim seriously?

David Icke should be given a hard look, no question about that. His website forums are populated with real, actual nazis and Hitler-lovers. But -- practicing yoga leads to David Icke and the slippery antisemitic slope? Environmentalism?

This is starting to be outright offensive.

Do I think that "practicing yoga leads to David Icke and the slippery antisemitic slope? Environmentalism?"

Hardly! I practice both and I'm clearly not into David Icke. I do think he has drawn sustenance from the New Age and broadly links himself to those sorts of currents.

What though do you think though of the evidence that Icke veers into racism and the far right? That is what is should be disturbing to a thinking, moral and socially aware person, in my book....

[seemslikeadream]

This is starting to be outright offensive.

Welcome to my world ....it started to offend me about 5 years ago


Icke's name has been ......wait for it.....57 times in this thread

[Sounder]

Ok then, to continue

The leader of the Illuminists, a Bavarian professor of religious law named Adam Weishaupt, wanted to free the world “from all established religious and political authority”. His Order aimed to get rid of the kings and the churches that had ruled Europe since the Middle Ages, and make room for new forms of commerce, science, and democratic government that were struggling to emerge at the time. The Illuminists modeled themselves partly on the Jesuits, an order of Catholic priests, and partly on the Freemasons. They infiltrated Masonic lodges in order to gain influence in society, and pursue their goals.

Sounds like this fellow is a booster for this Masonic project.

A class of rich merchants arose in Europe, trading with far-flung parts of the globe. New technologies developed, and with them new kinds of skilled workers. These new classes started to wield more power than the kings and queens who were supposed to be on top according to law and tradition. The American Revolution demonstrated the power of these classes to the whole world, when they broke free from the British crown.

Ah do you mean new classes like our ‘eastern establishment’ with its roots in piracy and the British East India Tea Company?

I do wish more people were aware of Masonic involvement in the American revolutionary war. This is not to vilify them either. Generals Gage and Howe played cat and mouse with Washington when they could have crushed him most any time. Some say the Bunker hill general was trying to remind the British govt. and public how bloody the coming war might be. Burgoyne, the only non-masonic general was an extreme war hawk and was left hanging out to dry by Gage and Howe when they did not come to Burgoyne’s aid, which brought the French in and turned the tide in the war.

They disbanded around 1787. Like so many other groups of its kind, the Illuminists failed to bring about revolutionary changes. But revolutionary change happened without them.

Nice myth making there.

Your assumptions require you to say that revolutionary change happened without them. Nobody wants to think of themselves as patsies, revolutionaries most of all. It just spoils the motivation. I would think and do in fact see that ‘revolutionaries’ are some of the most strident anti-deep politics thinkers around.

Not everyone celebrated the changes sweeping through Europe, however. People whose social status depended on the old aristocracy and the church tended to resist the changes. Some of them wrote books, and this is how the first Illuminati conspiracy theories were created.

Who would expect anything different?

Today’s Illuminati theory follows the same pattern. Even poor people who draw on Illuminati theory, who might otherwise sympathize with protest movements, often view movements as secret ploys by the Illuminati to cause trouble.

Could this be because poor people are tired of being pawns in the power games of rich people?

Because of this association with Enlightenment radicalism, people who opposed revolution tended to view Freemasons as the enemy. This is a common pattern: the elite always think revolutions are planned and directed by a small group of enlightened people, instead of by masses of people themselves.

Maybe that is because the ‘elite’ knows that their infinite money machine can buy up a lot of patsies.

In reality, Masonic lodges are elaborate social clubs for people who want to feel elite. In some places, Masonic lodges have provided a place for intellectuals to discuss how to change society, but they’re usually pretty boring. If you go into a Masonic temple today, you’ll see groups of small business owners talking about how to plant trees on Main Street, not a secret group plotting to rule the world. Nevertheless, their association with the original Bavarian Order of Illuminists has meant they’re always included in Illuminati theory.

In reality there are always carrots and sticks.

[Searcher08]

http://www.social-ecology.org/1996/01/left-green-perspectives-35/

From Green Messiah to New Age Nazi

by Matthew Kalman and John Murray

Matthew Kalman and John Murray are editors of the eco-political investigative magazine Open Eye, which has been uncovering and exposing David Icke and “New Age Nazism.” Address: BM Open Eye, London WC1N 3XX. Issue 3 is available for £1.70.


It has been hard in recent years to ignore the rising popularity of almost everything that comes under the heading New Age. Yoga, meditation, Kabbalah, Buddhism, alternative medicine, environmentalism, and self-improvement, as well as an array of New Age therapies, have all gained in popularity, as have other fringe interests like UFOs and the paranormal, which often appeal to the same people. Few will have avoided at least some contact.

The movement even has its own stars. In Britain, David Icke, the TV sports commentator turned Green Party national spokesman turned purple-robed “Son of God,” is the best-known leader.

What this is saying is that yoga, meditation, Kabbalah, Buddhism, alternative medicine, environmentalism, self-improvement, UFOs and the paranormal are all part of a monolithic "movement" led by David Icke, and anyone who has not "avoided at least some contact" with these pernicious ideas is, if not already an anti-semitic Holocaust revisionist who reads the Spotlight, is in grave danger of being "enticed" onto the "anti-Semitic treadmill."

That's an enormous stretch, AD, do you really take such a claim seriously?

David Icke should be given a hard look, no question about that. His website forums are populated with real, actual nazis and Hitler-lovers. But -- practicing yoga leads to David Icke and the slippery antisemitic slope? Environmentalism?

This is starting to be outright offensive.

Do I think that "practicing yoga leads to David Icke and the slippery antisemitic slope? Environmentalism?"

Hardly! I practice both and I'm clearly not into David Icke. I do think he has drawn sustenance from the New Age and broadly links himself to those sorts of currents.

What though do you think though of the evidence that Icke veers into racism and the far right? That is what is should be disturbing to a thinking, moral and socially aware person, in my book....

AD, you did not address Elvis's point.

I think this article is relevant:

The Yoga of Hypocracy - Fighting Western Cultural Theft
Rationala - Journal of Indian Socialist Skeptics

by U.P. Ursulf and Ty Dinotz

The associating with activities and people who perform cultural appropriation, participating in activities that are stolen from the heart of India, from people of colour, that were stolen by Westerners seeking to appropriate any form of culture they could for financial or power gain is common in the West. As abhorrent as this clearly evident process is, there are other aspects worth fleshing out, in particular - Western hypocracy. A horrid practice that serves to perpetuate dominator power relations under a guise of fascist originated tropes like 'self-development' or'healthy living' is contributing to that cultural hegemony and yet, participants in this hypocritically give your theft a free pass.

This process has taken place going back to the involvement of racist anti-Semite Russian spy Helena Blavatsky in the appropriation of the indigenous fakir tradition of Northern India as a cover for the 'Great Game' activities of rival colonial powers seeking the extension of imperial
influence for both resource theft and cultural exploitation.

The theft of the respectful milleau of native Earth-centrered care and it's transformation into the racists and capital-backed 'Green Movement' has been documented in detail in previous issues. The clear links of environmentalism to the far right and neo-Nazis and virulent anti-Semites are obvious, particularly to anyone visiting far right Internet forums as discussed in the previous issue of the Journal. These places are filled with people involved with these areas, activities that are ignored by so-called mainstream 'Green' activists. Particular recruiting grounds for these extremists are activities like the extremist Permaculture cult, set up by some very questionable characters in Queensland Australia, an area that is a well-known hotbed of anti-Native Australian racism. Notorious raving virulent anti-Semite drug endorsing David Icke was notorious for his association with the UK Green Party. These cults appropriated the traditional farming methods of the Deccan Plateau, 're-branding' them as a Western invention.

The activities of those stealing Indian culture is inherently racist and fascist in nature and perpetuates dominator relations between Exploiter and Exploited, yet not only is this theft ignored by Western groups, it is actively encouraged in the form of mass media emphasis on fascist tropes of 'Health' which are no different than the Nazi-era Hitler Youth 'Back to The Land' movement. Participants in this traffic must be called out - and empowering strategies for the reclaiming of our culture from it's selfish co-option and use by self-interested Western forces, covered in self-generated 'figleafs', and full of willful blindness created.
Health and well-being are important issues in India; they deserve to be addressed without the theft of our culture.