coffin_dodger » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:50 am wrote:This whole denial of an illuminati or illuminati-like structure (or whatever they are called) is so fervent amongst the deniers (and the lengths they go to to mock and quash discussion of) that it reminds me of the many dominoes to have toppled recently - wikileaks, manning, snowden, the activities of the nsa to name but a few - it feels like we're all edging closer to some seriously liberating yet disturbing stuff. I still maintain wikileaks and greenwald have stuff that the public just isn't ready for yet. Here's hoping.
Have you made an honest assessment of how Illuminati Theory is such a refuge for scoundrels and flimflam artists, conveyers of disinformation, right wing wackos and racists, etc. etc.?
Because it should be clear that there's something rotten going on...
coffin_dodger » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:50 am wrote:This whole denial of an illuminati or illuminati-like structure (or whatever they are called) is so fervent amongst the deniers (and the lengths they go to to mock and quash discussion of) that it reminds me of the many dominoes to have toppled recently - wikileaks, manning, snowden, the activities of the nsa to name but a few - it feels like we're all edging closer to some seriously liberating yet disturbing stuff. I still maintain wikileaks and greenwald have stuff that the public just isn't ready for yet. Here's hoping.
Have you made an honest assessment of how Illuminati Theory is such a refuge for scoundrels and flimflam artists, conveyers of disinformation, right wing wackos and racists, etc. etc.?
Because it should be clear that there's something rotten going on...
Have you made an honest assessment of how your all encompassing Anti-Semite Theory is such a refuge for scoundrels and flimflam artists, conveyers of disinformation, etc. etc.? Because it should be clear that there's something rotten going on.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started. They could still get him out of office. But instead, they want mass death. Don’t forget that.
Yet one more valiant leader of the fight against "The Illuminati":
David Icke: A Biographical Profile
David Icke was born in Leicester, UK in 1952, the son of a British World War II hero. He did not do well in school, but was talent-scouted by a football (we call it soccer in the U.S.) team, Coventry City. He also played for Hereford United. Early onset of arthritis ruled out a football career, and Mr. Icke retired from the sport in 1973. During the 1970s and 1980s he was a print and television journalist. He also began to dabble in politics, and after 1988 became one of the spokesmen for the UK Green Party.
About 1990, Mr. Icke began to get heavily into New Age ideas, evidently while searching for alternative cures to the pain of his arthritis. In early 1991 he claims to have had a spiritual experience at a pre-Columbian burial site in Peru. Not long after he returned to the UK, he resigned from the Green Party. At this point in his life he began wearing only clothes that were turquoise colored, believing it channeled positive energy. He also began making bizarre doomsday predictions, such as a prognostication that Great Britain would crumble into the sea as a result of earthquakes. (There is no significant seismic activity in Britain). Mr. Icke later recanted these predictions, admitting they were “nonsense.”
What really projected Mr. Icke into the public eye was an April 1991 interview with BBC personality Terry Wogan. You can see a video of the interview here. In the interview, Mr. Icke continued to make strange apocalyptic predictions. He also claimed, or at least implied, that he was the Son of God—later Mr. Icke said this was misinterpreted. The studio audience present at the interview laughed. The BBC brass cringed; many thought the show went too far. Fifteen years later, Mr. Wogan admitted that he was too hard on Mr. Icke during this interview. Certainly the interview had a devastating effect—Mr. Icke said he was afraid to walk down the street for fear of public derision, and he dropped out of sight for several years.
In 1999, Mr. Icke came out with his most famous book, The Biggest Secret, the book with which he is identified on-screen in Thrive. This book established the central tenet of Mr. Icke’s philosophy: that the world is run by a race of reptilian aliens that can change their shape and appear to be human, and that the world’s political, economic and social systems are a colossal conspiracy by these evil aliens to enslave mankind. These aliens are supposedly from the constellation Draco, but also from another dimension. Over his various series of books and lectures, Mr. Icke has expounded on this theory, weaving a complicated science-fiction history of the world wherein these aliens have been breeding humans since ancient times. People whom Mr. Icke thinks are secretly reptilian shape-shifting aliens from Draco include Bill Clinton, the late Princess Diana, Queen Elizabeth II, former Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney, President George W. Bush (of course), and, for whatever reason, Hollywood actor and former country star Kris Kristofferson.
Mr. Icke has not changed this basic narrative in 13 years. Indeed, he’s still out there today, giving lectures all over the world and getting paid handsomely for it. According to one estimate, he may make as much as £300,000 (about $475,000) for one appearance in the UK.
Is There Any Evidence to Support David Icke’s Theories?
No.
There is not a single shred of evidence anywhere in the world to suggest that (1) shape-shifting reptilian aliens from the constellation Draco actually exist; (2) various world leaders, celebrities and country-western stars are actually reptilian shape-shifting aliens from the constellation Draco; or (3) that there is a such thing as an “Illuminati,” a “New World Order” or a “Global Domination Agenda.” On this blog, I have already debunked the Global Domination Agenda and demonstrated why we can be certain that it does not exist. All of the so-called “evidence” produced by Mr. Icke and/or his supporters falls along exactly the same lines as the discussion in that article about why evidence proffered by Illuminati/NWO/GDA believers does not, in fact, prove the existence of this group or their supposed agenda. Mr. Icke’s theories are total fantasy.
A favorite activity of believers in Mr. Icke’s fantastic delusional scenarios is to scrutinize videos on YouTube of world leaders suspected of being reptilians for “evidence” of them changing from their human into their reptilian form. Sometimes believers will seize upon a glitch or anomaly in the video, often lasting only split seconds, and trumpet it as “proof” that the person is “changing into a reptile in front of our eyes!” Often the culprit will be a bulging vein in the person’s neck, a common retinal flash (red-eye), or a pixellation error in the streaming video which the believer insists makes the person look like they have “lizard eyes.” For some reason, former presidents Bill Clinton and George H.W. Bush are favorite targets for this ludicrous accusation. Here is an example of a video which reptilian believers cite as total vindication of Mr. Icke’s claims.
As you can see, it’s a pretty boring interview by the former presidents, and despite the frenzied claims of the subtitles, neither of them change into reptiles, nor anything even remotely close.
I challenge any believer of Mr. Icke’s theories to explain how and why this video proves (I) that reptilian shape-shifting aliens exist; (II) that these aliens come from Draco; (III) that these aliens rule the world, or (IV) that President Clinton and President Bush are said reptilian aliens.
To those supporters of Mr. Icke who will invariably say, “But you haven’t proved that what he says isn’t true,” I will reply, I don’t have to. It’s Mr. Icke’s burden to prove that what he says is true. The burden of proof never shifts to skeptics to disprove conspiracy theories. I am not suggesting that we reject David Icke’s theories about reptilian shape-shifting aliens because they sound crazy. I’m suggesting that we reject them because there is no evidence to support them, and because, as if this is not enough reason to reject them, they have another very serious and troubling problem.
What Do David Icke’s Theories Really Mean?
The problem with Mr. Icke’s false assertions is that they are essentially science-fiction redresses of the old “Jewish world conspiracy” theories from the late 19th and early 20th centuries, with reptilian shape-shifting aliens from Draco standing in for Jews. Mr. Icke even believes in the authenticity of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a notorious anti-Semitic forgery that was proven false almost a century ago. Of course, in Mr. Icke’s mythology, it was not the Jews who wrote about their plans of world domination in the Protocols, but aliens.
Michael Barkun, an academic researcher who studies comparative religion, wrote a book called A Culture of Conspiracy: Apocalyptic Visions in Contemporary America (Berkeley: University of California Press, 2003). Dr. Barkun is the leading scholarly expert on conspiracy theorists in the United States today. On page 104, in a chapter where Dr. Barkun describes the conspiracist ideology of Mr. Icke, he says:
“This set of nested conspiracies [described by David Icke] achieves its goals through control of the ‘world financial system’ and its mastery of ‘mind control’ techniques. Its goal is a ‘plan that, according to Icke, had been laid out in The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Although Icke is careful to suggest…that the Illuminati rather than the Jews wrote The Protocols, this is the first of a number of instances in which Icke moves into the dangerous terrain of anti-Semitism.”
The reason that aliens became stand-ins for Jews has to do with the evolution of conspiracy theory during the 1980s and 1990s, when right-wing militia conspiracy milieu (think Timothy McVeigh) became intertwined with the UFO/alien subculture. Dr. Barkun states, on page 144:
“This type of speculation projects terrestrial racial categories onto creatures from outer space….Such racial classificatory schemata are common among those who argue for multiple types of alien visitors. Even among writers who most unambiguously reject anti-Semitism, the alien racial types disquietingly appear to reproduce old stereotypes. The evil Grays are dwarfish with grotesque features—not unlike stereotypes of the short, swarthy, hook-nosed Jew of European anti-Semitic folklore. They are contrasted to the tall, virtuous Nordics or Aryans. Although there is little to suggest that those who employ such terms do so to make direct parallels to earthbound categories, the images seem clearly to be refracted versions of older racial anti-Semitism.”
This is useful background, but it isn’t really about Mr. Icke per se. However, Dr. Barkun does get there, after discussing how conspiracists like David Icke are inconsistent about proclaiming to not be anti-Semitic while advancing clearly anti-Semitic theories:
“David Icke also seeks to have it both ways, simultaneously claiming to be offended at the thought that anyone might find him anti-Semitic and hinting at the dark activities of Jewish elites. He protests that the charge of anti-Semitism is merely a ruse to silence truth seekers, a tactic of the shadowy ‘Global Elite,’ who ‘denounce anyone who gets closer to the truth as an anti-Semite.’ According to Icke, the Anti-Defamation League is the conspiracy’s tool for silencing ‘researchers who are getting too close to the truth about the global conspiracy.’…
The more strongly Icke is condemned for anti-Semitism, the stranger are his protestations of innocence. He attacks alleged exploiters of the Jewish people, including B’nai B’rith, which he identifies as the Rothschilds’ ‘intelligence arm,’ used to ‘defame and destroy legitimate researchers with the label anti-Semitic.’ It was supposedly the Rothschilds who brought Hitler to power, created Zionism, and ‘control the State of Israel.’…Icke and other UFO anti-Semites obsess about ‘Jewish bankers.’ They are alleged to be the international wire-pullers behind countless episodes of national collapse and international turmoil. The old names, such as Rothschild and the firm of Kuhn, Loeb, continually recur. Given this penchant for recycling old themes, it is scarcely surprising that that hoary forgery, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, exerts an abiding fascination.”
Conclusion
David Icke is a person, popular in New Age and conspiracy theorist circles, who espouses an elaborate belief system so bizarre, so implausible, and so far-removed from reality that it is incapable of being accepted in any rational frame of mind. The fact that this worldview lacks a single shred of evidence to support it should underscore precisely how far-removed from reality it is. The fact that it so eerily resembles crude anti-Semitic conspiracy theories from yesteryear, with a modern sci-fi twist imported from UFO mythology, should make the theories of Mr. Icke even more radioactive. But, despite all these strikes against it, there are people out there who not only believe that reptilian shape-shifting aliens are trying to control the world simply because Mr. Icke has told them this is the case, but these people are willing to pay to see him espouse these theories in sufficient numbers to provide him with a comfortable living going around the world lecturing about how awful reptilian shape-shifting aliens are...
oh here we go again with thrive bullshit ...20 times ain't we seen enough yet?....why must you torture us so?
Last edited by seemslikeadream on Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started. They could still get him out of office. But instead, they want mass death. Don’t forget that.
coffin_dodger » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:50 am wrote:This whole denial of an illuminati or illuminati-like structure (or whatever they are called) is so fervent amongst the deniers (and the lengths they go to to mock and quash discussion of) that it reminds me of the many dominoes to have toppled recently - wikileaks, manning, snowden, the activities of the nsa to name but a few - it feels like we're all edging closer to some seriously liberating yet disturbing stuff. I still maintain wikileaks and greenwald have stuff that the public just isn't ready for yet. Here's hoping.
Have you made an honest assessment of how Illuminati Theory is such a refuge for scoundrels and flimflam artists, conveyers of disinformation, right wing wackos and racists, etc. etc.?
Because it should be clear that there's something rotten going on...
Sorry to break it to you AD, but thinking about a subject is something you cannot control yet. The System (yes, in my world, there is a System) has kept secrets from me all my life - it led me to believe there was 'nothing to see here' about so many things - it had me branded a 'conspiracy theorist' for questioning it's authority and having the temerity to disseminate any ideas contrary to it's own agenda - and now, as the curtain is slowly being raised on some of the best kept of those secrets, I consider nothing to be beyond the bounds of possibility any more - and certainly any of the memes that the System is very keen to sustain are the most open to scrutiny. The search for answers may well lead me down dead-end pathways and into "scoundrels and flimflam artists, conveyers of disinformation, right wing wackos and racists" - but I am an adult with the free-thinking ability to judge for myself what is right and what is wrong, who is using who and who the victims are.
The more you push System memes in my face, the closer an inspection is warranted.
coffin_dodger » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:50 am wrote:This whole denial of an illuminati or illuminati-like structure (or whatever they are called) is so fervent amongst the deniers (and the lengths they go to to mock and quash discussion of) that it reminds me of the many dominoes to have toppled recently - wikileaks, manning, snowden, the activities of the nsa to name but a few - it feels like we're all edging closer to some seriously liberating yet disturbing stuff. I still maintain wikileaks and greenwald have stuff that the public just isn't ready for yet. Here's hoping.
Have you made an honest assessment of how Illuminati Theory is such a refuge for scoundrels and flimflam artists, conveyers of disinformation, right wing wackos and racists, etc. etc.?
Because it should be clear that there's something rotten going on...
Sorry to break it to you AD, but thinking about a subject is something you cannot control yet. The System (yes, in my world, there is a System) has kept secrets from me all my life - it led me to believe there was 'nothing to see here' about so many things - it had me branded a 'conspiracy theorist' for questioning it's authority and having the temerity to disseminate any ideas contrary to it's own agenda - and now, as the curtain is slowly being raised on some of the best kept of those secrets, I consider nothing to be beyond the bounds of possibility any more - and certainly any of the memes that the System is very keen to sustain are the most open to scrutiny. The search for answers may well lead me down dead-end pathways and into "scoundrels and flimflam artists, conveyers of disinformation, right wing wackos and racists" - but I am an adult with the free-thinking ability to judge for myself what is right and what is wrong, who is using who and who the victims are.
The more you push System memes in my face, the closer an inspection is warranted.
Isn't the "thinking about a subject" which you claim to want to do inclusive of making "an honest assessment of how Illuminati Theory is such a refuge for scoundrels and flimflam artists, conveyers of disinformation, right wing wackos and racists, etc. etc."?
Have you made an honest assessment of how your all encompassing Anti-Semite Theory is such a refuge for scoundrels and flimflam artists, conveyers of disinformation, etc. etc.?
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started. They could still get him out of office. But instead, they want mass death. Don’t forget that.
seemslikeadream » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:38 am wrote:Have you made an honest assessment of how your all encompassing Anti-Semite Theory is such a refuge for scoundrels and flimflam artists, conveyers of disinformation, etc. etc.?
Are you doing that on purpose? Or is your understanding of my position really that grossly distorted?
FWIW, I find your present approach to posting unhelpful.
In most cases, it is better to...
leave a link to an onsite data dump or a website cite a relevant paragraph at most and leave a pertinent (or pithy) comment.
No more, no less.
Speaking only for myself, I have stopped reading the seemingly endless screens of information you present, not out of disrespect or disagreement with your position, whatever that is, but because I am old and time is precious to me. Furthermore, as I said previously, I am interested more in your opinion, succinctly expressed, than those you cite.
I can understand how Sounder et al have misunderstood the evolution of your personal and political philosophy. In my opinion, you have not presented it in a way that makes for understanding without an excess of effort.
As for that philosophy, you might put in your sig, in 1000 words or less, as space allows, so everyone reading can not possibly fail to understand.
Just my opinion. Please take this in the spirit intended.
FWIW, I find your present approach to posting unhelpful.
In most cases, it is better to...
leave a link to an onsite data dump or a website cite a relevant paragraph at most and leave a pertinent (or pithy) comment.
No more, no less.
Speaking only for myself, I have stopped reading the seemingly endless screens of information you present, not out of disrespect or disagreement with your position, whatever that is, but because I am old and time is precious to me. Furthermore, as I said previously, I am interested more in your opinion, succinctly expressed, than those you cite.
I can understand how Sounder et al have misunderstood the evolution of your personal and political philosophy. In my opinion, you have not presented it in a way that makes for understanding without an excess of effort.
As for that philosophy, you might put in your sig, in 1000 words or less, as space allows, so everyone reading can not possibly fail to understand.
Just my opinion. Please take this in the spirit intended.
If I post articles of more than a paragraph, it is because I assume that the reader can scan the material and skip what is uninteresting to them. Isn't that what most posters here do? So why single out me in particular for your admonitions?
As, to my signature line- it does speak volumes about my philosophy, and here it is:
"If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything." -Malcolm X
You will find that generally speaking, the exact same emphasis and information is contained within virtually all of em.
As posted above, I said I stopped, therefore I started. That I have stopped, to the extent that there is relevant information offered, which must sometimes be the case, I am diminished, and therefore AD as well. AD has the option of heeding my advice or no. So be it.
American Dream » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:56 am wrote:If I post articles of more than a paragraph, it is because I assume that the reader can scan the material and skip what is uninteresting to them. Isn't that what most posters here do? So why single out me in particular for your admonitions?
Admonition is warning. Was that a warning to you?
As, to my signature line- it does speak volumes about my philosophy, and here it is:
"If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything." -Malcolm X
You mean this? This speaks volumes about your philosophy?
You will find that generally speaking, the exact same emphasis and information is contained within virtually all of em.
As posted above, I said I stopped, therefore I started. That I have stopped, to the extent that there is relevant information offered, which must sometimes be the case, I am diminished, and therefore AD as well. AD has the option of heeding my advice or no. So be it.
In that case you have read all the lyrics to the same song. Its been hashed over and grappled with for the last six years or so by those who think that there probably is some form of illuminati, along with those who know that David Icke clearly isnt insane, or a "madman", or racist or any of the rest of it, and in fact might be worth listening to now and and again
oh here we go again with thrive bullshit ...20 times ain't we seen enough yet?....why must you torture us so?
