Steven Greer and CSETI

[Attack Ships on Fire]

Hello all, just registered after being a longtime reader. I've tried to go back through all of Jeff's posts and read as much of the message board topics before leaping in here with my own discussions.<br><br>I've had a longtime fascination with ufology and read everything that I could get my hands on about the subject. I've also tried to keep an open mind on all theories concerning the UFO subject, but the one thing that I'm pretty convinced on is that it is a real phenomena. Whether these objects are extraterrestrial vehicles, top secret government craft, ultraterrestrial lifeforms or manifestations from the collective unconscious, I don't know and I haven't made my mind up about it.<br><br>Recently I've started looking at the CSETI organization and the efforts of Dr. Steven Greer. CSETI and Greer first came to my attention through the Disclosure Project conference video now available on Google Video (taken May 2001). I've since looked at more interviews with Greer, read the case reports on the CSETI website and also tried to follow some of the criticism directed at Greer (such as his claims that sarin gas was used by the military against ETs in a bungled attack. These claims were later withdrawn by Greer.)<br><br>I admired Greer for trying to set up the Disclosure organization which seemed to collect as many reputable persons of interest as possible and try to bring the issue of UFOs are real to the public mainstream. However, when I started diving further into the CSETI website and listening to Greer interviews, he was making claims of being in somewhat regular contact with ETs and of being able to establish contact with them. One of the case reports gives a chronicle of a fascinating encounter, direct ET contact with humans and even a hologram of an ET appearing in front of witnesses. Another report states that a field team from "48 Hours" shot video of various UFOs and that the report never made it to broadcast (in effect it was supposedly buried by CBS.)<br><br>What, if anything, do you think of Greer and his more amazing claims? Has anyone here participated in one of these events (cost being $700) where they will supposedly teach you meditation/contacting techniques for establishing communication with ETs? I mean, being a follower of high strangeness and parapolitics, one reads about a lot of bizarre things and outrageous claims, but what Greer is claiming is a lot more loaded than a man claiming an asteroid will impact Earth on such-and-such date and is then later proven wrong when the date comes and goes. if Greer has truly been able to establish communication with ETs, shouldn't there be many witnesses by now to these events? Even if photographic evidence isn't allowed, for whatever reason, shouldn't there be more people talking about this if it's real and happening?<br><br>I want to like Greer, but just as with seemingly everything associated with this phenomena, I have to take all of this with a huge portion of salt. It's one thing to assemble alleged witnesses of a cosmic coverup, it's another to come forth and say that you know how to prove without a shadow of a doubt that ETs are here, they're real and you too can communicate with them.<br><br>And before someone says it, yes, I could cough up the $700 and see if it's real for myself. Maybe one day, but right now I can use that $700 for a lot of other things.<br><br>** Note to Jeff: I tried posting this first in the UFO forum but it said that I needed to be an administrator to post in there. Is that right or another Blogger glitch?<br> <p></p><i></i>

[Et in Arcadia ego]

A friend and myself took a little trip down a Greer-related Rabbit Hole last year:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/thread9268.html">www.chemtrailcentral.com/...d9268.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Enjoy. <p></p><i></i>

[Attack Ships on Fire]

I read your entry at your site Arcadia. So the address registered to CSETI's website, another website for a fellow that claims to have made a zero point energy device and two oil companies all appear to be a high end residental house in Santa Barbara, CA? I agree, that's damn strange. There may be some explanation, some six degrees of separation answer (like the webmaster of CSETI got the job to be webmaster for the ZPE site through reference) but it's odd that those two oil companies would also give the same address. Has anyone confirmed that the building at the given address is a residental building or is it maybe a PO Box place? I mean, from Google Maps is sure likes a residental neighborhood but you never know...<br><br>In any case, it makes for interesting reading. Do you think Greer is a disinformation agent of some sort, or being used for that purpose by someone else?<br> <p></p><i></i>

[Rigorous Intuition]

Hi, Attack Ships on Fire. Welcome, glad you joined.<br><br>About posting in the UFO forum: the way the board is set up, all live threads remain here, in Open Discussion. When the conversation is finished, they get archived topically. You were trying to post to a directory of archived files.<br><br>About Greer, my instinct says you're right to be wary of him. I don't think he's necessarily engaged in conscious deception (though his claims of contact need explaining), but I think he gullibly swallows a lot disinformation which supports his benign ET hypothesis. (I think that's the least likely, and one of the least interesting, explanations for the phenomenon.) <p></p><i></i>

[Attack Ships on Fire]

Hey Jeff, thanks for the welcome and for the explanation about the way the forum works. Now I know it wasn't something I goofed up on.<br><br>Regarding myself being wary of Greer -- I'm wary of **everything** associated with all of this stuff. The problem is that when I stare at it too much and examine all of the possibilities of each separate parafield, I feel that 99.5% of it becomes a blur of opinion and you're left with .5% hard evidence of the event in question. That's why I'm intrigued by Greer's claims of being able to call ETs down and have them manifest themselves physically, show off their craft or demonstrate holographic-like projection, all things that I think all of us would say are beyond the means of reproduction with the technology that we know of. Are these reports figments of his imagination? Are they real appearances of ETs? Are they a form of disinformation from a third party? I don't know. I have to give a percentage of possibility that Greer is on the ball and has/is experiencing something very unique and strange and cannot manifest proof of it, even if the odds are stacked against it being the real story. But proof is like cash in these kinds of stories and personal experience isn't proof. I read the CSETI report about a "48 Hours" news team that was alleged to be on hand during one close encounter, and of the follow-up that the report was supposedly buried by the network. So why don't they name names of who was on that team? ....yeah.<br><br>Jeff, while I have your ear, I'd just like to say how much I enjoy your blog and the way you approach the messy subject. It feels even handed, the right mix of skeptical inquirer and paranoia, analytical and opinion forming. I believe all of us feel something invisible breathing down the back of our neck and we can't see what it is, and the high strangeness of some of these things merely hides the shape of the thing in shadow. Thanks for throwing a light on a part of the many tentacles, even if some of it (MK Ultra, children used as mind control slaves) surpasses the shock and horror found in the typical Stephen King book.<br> <p></p><i></i>

[Dreams End]

Stay away from Greer...that's my advice. I don't just think he's a harmless eccentric. Somebody who had been really involved with him posted here recently. Called the Disclosure project "cultish". <br><br>In addition, I wasn't really that impressed with the big news conference that kicked off the Disclosure Project some years ago. I was expecting big things from the hype that preceded it.<br><br>There are a lot of intel games being played inside UFOlogy, unfortunately. Just recently, for example, we've had discussion about Richard Doty, an Airforce intel guy who struck a deal with a UFO researcher to pass disinformation onto ANOTHER ufo researcher...who ended up in the psych ward. The disinfo was the whole alien/human alliance type stuff.<br><br>Doty is part of the so-called "aviary" and in my opinion is part of the whole MJ-12 thing...more disinfo but really, really high level quality in terms of forgeries. <br><br>Another strain in this is the involvement of a guy named Daniel Sheehan. Sheehan, former lead Jesuit counsel in the US, started the Christic Institute back in the eighties. They prosecuted a case having to do with Iran Contra and did manage to put out a lot of good information. However, Sheehan does two things consistently, or I should say, does one thing consistently in the same way, namely: he takes slam dunk cases, mixes in his own brand of "secret government" conspiracy theories and then loses the case. This is what happened with the Iran Contra stuff.<br><br>We've debated a lot on this forum about the idea of "secret government". We all agree that there's all sorts of high level conspiracies going on, I think. Some of us think that this is a way we've done business for generations in this country and some would like to believe that we'd be okay if a very small, powerful group had not secretly hijacked the government. It's neocons now, but back then it was a group of military and intel folks. And they were nasty folks, don't get me wrong...talking about the Ollie North crowd. <br><br>Both sides of this debate have some truth, surely. But the point is that as a way to build a LEGAL case against someone...it's crap. He put his agenda ahead of the case, and the case was sacrificed.<br><br>Anyway, Sheehan is now working with the Disclosure project and basically putting forward the same politics, only he has added the ET's into the mix of the secret government. He's also involved in some other things such as the Kucinich campaign and, if I remember, the Transcendental Meditation group.<br><br>In any event, there are some games being played here, I'm sure of it. Wish I could claim special insider knowledge about exactly what's going on, but I think it's the sort of thing that's been going on at least since the fifties with George Adamski and his contacts with the Venusians. <br><br>In my opinion, the best UFO book of late from the "hardware" line of thinking (that is, these are actual craft with actual beings from basically the same reality that we inhabit who are studying us or whatever) would be UFO's and the National Security State by Richard Dolan. Before that, was Timothy Good's "Above Top Secret", though I found Good to be rather accepting of claims in later books that didn't seem that well supported. Good moved into the alien/human conspiracy line of thinking. <br><br>If you suspect, like Jeff and others, that the UFO phenomenon may be something more beyond our understanding of reality...transdimensional beings somehow breaking into our dimension, trickster entities, "controllers" etc, read stuff by Jaques Vallee. He has his own interesting set of connections and could, I think, but he's the first I saw who said, "Wait a second, these UFO researchers are just like the mainstream media. They'll accept SOME kinds of UFO stories, but if the stories don't sound like their acceptable story of aliens coming to study/manipulate us, they toss them out. " Vallee looks at all sorts of very high strangeness cases that don't make a lot of rational sense. He decided that maybe some other reality is creating these events to impart some kind of message or shape our understanding of reality or something like that. "Passport to Magonia" was the first book along those lines. And he includes a lot of really interesting stories from way back in history, when aliens were called fairies, for example, but were still kidnapping people and messing with their babies.<br><br>My general rule of thumb is that when some person or group is charging 700 bucks a pop to provide glimpses into some higher reality, the only thing "higher" about that reality is the tax bracket that particular guru is headed for. It is very challenging terrain to navigate because of the aforementioned games of our fine intel agencies and possibly because of the games being played by these...whoever they are...themselves. <br><br>But there is a history both of UFO centered cults, particularly "contactee" cults and in my view there is definitely evidence that some of these have been started or at least very closely observed and manipulated by government spooks. <br><br>By the way, Richard Dolan's second edition will hopefully come out in the near future. Since he spent a lot of time "learning German" in EAST germany before the wall fell, and hanging out with dissidents...maybe he's a spook too. Who knows, but he does a good job of introducing the reader not only to UFO stuff but the whole national security state apparatus that arose after WW2. That could, in fact, really be part of a disinfo plan to misdirect us from the other reasons this apparatus arose...so it is always caveat lector. Reader beware.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[Et in Arcadia ego]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>In any case, it makes for interesting reading. Do you think Greer is a disinformation agent of some sort, or being used for that purpose by someone else?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I think Greer stands at the vanguard of a foul little nest of predators. It's hard to determine the thrust of their ambitions, but the impression I recieved is that they seem to use the UFO thing to validate the persuit and sales of SDI; which of course, comes full circle to the military-industrial complex. Then you have that doo-doo bird, Bearden(someone I've howled against online now for years), who takes an apparent delight in smudging the brains out of alternative energy thoery and discussion to the point where it's collectively dismissed. He's like the Free Energy Leper..<br><br>Poignantly, let me ask you this:<br><br>These men are connected via Craddock, the owner of the La Jolla(yes, it's a residence, or is it a business? Hell, it's registered as both.) property, and the Craddock oil companies. Despite the fact that his corporate websites are very template/mickey mouse looking, I still can't say if they're real or front operations, but assuming they're real, what the HELL is a Big Oil person doing:<br><br>A - Hanging out with a free energy wacko(and they've made extensive names for themselves as a pair) trying to sell everything from Cancer curing machines in Europe to propagating the meme that the cell phone towers are there to Kill all Humans..<br><br>B - Hanging out with a guy that flies around the world(Apparently with Rockefeller footing the bill, if I'm not mistaken) doing private showings of UFO footage to upper crust elites most likely to possess the greatest xenophobia who would most likely encourage SDI initiatives with their influence. When this man is not catering to the 1%, he's making a joke out of himself in front of Congress or, and I love this part..Observing UFO's from CRADDOCKS OWN HOUSE on La Jolla..<br><br>C - 'Webmastering' for both Greer and Bearden? I don't know about you, but if I was a big-time Oil guy, I wouldn't be sitting in front of a computer managine webspace and answering emails for two puppet magicians..<br><br>Nothing to see here folks.. <p></p><i></i>

[Attack Ships on Fire]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Poignantly, let me ask you this:<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I agree with you, it's suspicious and I thank you for alerting me to it. The connection between Craddock and CSETI should be asked to Greer and an explanation provided. Now, if I can argue for a moment about the Craddock websites and companies, I know that people can mistakenly assume that because you have an online presence you've got a far larger company than really exists in reality. What needs to be done is more research into the extent of these companies and if they're small biz/working from inside the garage operations, then there should be the disclosure about *why* these people are all sharing "business" space together. Unfortunately for Greer, he's placed himself in a spotlight by choice and as such his motives will be questioned. It may suck and his personal privacy may be tenderly stepped on here, but that's the way the search for the truth has to be conducted with this subject; everything and everyone is subject to skepticism because of the disinformation and misassumptions associated with what ufology may or may not be. Hell, because I'm keeping an open mind about Craddock's business websites people can assume that I'm part of the conspiracy too, spreading subterfuge and introducing an element of doubt into peoples' minds that may have already formed an opinion about him, Greer and the whole CSETI organization. This is what I was getting at earlier, that trying to solve these riddles is like descending into a Mandelbrot set: you keep going forever on, seeing further orders of complexity and never truly the whole picture is ever revealed to you.<br><br>One of the facets of certain kinds of contactees that's always pissed me off is their insistance that they cannot reveal select information reportedly given to them, or prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the ET phenomena is real. Take for example Greer: he says he's been close to having physical proof of the existance of ETs but that the individual died shortly before he took possession of the evidence. He also claims to have been in close proximity to these ETs but never took a photo or video of them. Whitley Streiber also lost me when he said in one of his later books that he had a conscious, lucid encounter with these so-called ETs who revealed information to him but he couldn't divulge it to the readers. Hey, I'm sorry Whitley, but at least do you think that after having a pow-wow with your new friends you could take a side as to whether these "visitors" are real, imaginary, humans in disguise, ultraterrestrials or actual ETs? C'mon.<br><br>Part of what Jeff writes about is that the high strangeness associated with the phenomena may indicate that an encounter with UFOs or alleged ETs means it's a personal journey of the experiencer and any hard evidence to third parties doesn't fully communicate the power and perhaps nature of the true face of what's being encountered (read a short story by David Brin that nails this angle perfectly.) That may be the case and subjective reality may be just a slice of a larger cosmic layer cake, but at some point the phenomena still appears capable of being reduced to being measurable (and thus photographic) in our hard subjective reality. If these entities are able to flirt about at the edges of our reality and can almost ensure a total 100% blackout of evidence for people like us to later look at and evaluate, there still must be cases where some slips through and proof of it can be documented. We've got photos of UFOs, radar data, even circumstantial physical evidence of landings and what may be implants, but still no smoking gun. Hell, even the Bigfoot phenemona, which itself operates similar to the UFO phenomena, has it's holy grail of photographic evidence (that being the Patterson film). Where's our Patterson level of evidence for ET contact?<br><br>I think that a paradigm shattering piece of evidence needs to be introduced to this miasma for it to advance to the next level, at least for people like myself who read and pursue this from all sides. At the end of the day all any of us have, including guys like Greer, is their word that it happened and that they "know" the secret behind it. Unfortunately, that's not good enough. I've never been to Africa but I've seen photos and video of it, and I know that if I really want to go, that I can get there. I can't say the same about the existance of ETs.<br> <p></p><i></i>

[Pissed Off Cabbie]

Just know that Greer, along with abduction researcher Dr. John Mack, recieved funding from Laurance Rockefeller. I was a believer until I discovered that little fact, and now, I realise what a hoax it's all been. Yes, the flying saucers and flying triangles are up there, and a great many people have seen them. But,they're not from Zeta Reticuli, or even Neptune. It's just the good, old military-industrial complex, denying us the Jetsons future that we were promised in the 50's and 60's.<br><br>For more, google Viktor Shauberger, the Horton Brothers, foo fighters, the Grumann Tr-3B, Jim Keith, military abductions, and see where that leads you. <p></p><i></i>

[Attack Ships on Fire]

Hey Cabbie, thanks for sharing the info, I'll Google data mine those words over the course of the weekend. I've already read a bit about the WW2 foo fighters and the military abduction reports. Not sure what to make of them when placed in the context that all of the UFO mystery is fake and a front for Earthbound forces.<br><br>Actually, maybe you could elaborate a bit on why you think all of the UFOs are the products of terrestrial explanations. I lean more toward the side that there is an ET/extra-human influence at work here, but I also feel that it's not the sole answer to the mystery and that terrestrial powers that be are also involved -- to how great an extent, and how much may be groups spread disinfo, I'm not sure. However, I can't see a path towards a 100% terrestrial explanation for the kinds of UFO phenomena that's been reported.<br><br>Also, what's your take on the Rockefeller angle? Do you side that he's in on the real story and is seeding money with ufologists out there to spread disinfo? From your message that's the vibe I read, but what would the money angle do really? Ufology isn't considered mainstream by any means, and even the work of researchers that aren't connected to Rockefeller money is dismissed from the public eye. Hollywood already does a great job of presenting a heavy anthropomorhic view of alien contact (ID4, Starship Troopers, etc.) It just seems to me that if there's a sinister agenda to spread disinfo, really, how much money do these guys need to spend on it annually to get the desired results? Probably less than the cost of a Happy Meal.<br> <p></p><i></i>