How to Understand And Confront Holocaust Denial

[Wombaticus Rex]

Why does RI need an OP about the Jewish Holocaust on the front page every single day ....perpetually for 7 years?

WHY?

Your question contains a counterfactual and thus cannot be answered.

If RI was actually drowned in the kind of content you're talking about, I really think I might have noticed by now.

I do have a suggestion, as both a reader and moderator: maybe you should just stop engaging with anything AD says. Same goes for slim. I think, more than anything, that would go a long way towards improving the tone, diversity and aesthetics of General Discussion.

AD can and will calmly push your buttons from here to eternity, and do so without breaking any forum rules. You get reduced to caps lock ad hominems very quickly, because you get offended. AD does not. This is the inherent asymmetry of your conflict.

[seemslikeadream]

My statement is the absolute truth

Why does RI need an OP about the Jewish Holocaust on the front page every single day ....perpetually for 7 years?

[Wombaticus Rex]

Why does RI need an OP about the Jewish Holocaust on the front page every single day ....perpetually for 7 years?

Why does RI need you to defend it?

I guess that's the disconnect for me. Again, if you'd just let go of this conflict you love so much you'd see things improve here, for all of us.

[seemslikeadream]

I wish you wouldn't evade the question by insulting me ..

[Wombaticus Rex]

I wish you wouldn't evade the question by insulting me ..

I am encouraged to see you're learning some moves from AD.

[seemslikeadream]

talk about insults ....that takes the cake!


I am just a tad pissed because AD and I had exchanged pm's a while back and I thought we had come to an agreement ...apparently I was mistaken or conned....

[Wombaticus Rex]

My first thought when I saw the title of the thread was "which holocaust?"

I wasn't even thinking the Jewish holocaust before and during WWII. There are so many to choose from. When discussing teens theses days this topic I always ask them which holocaust do you mean. Seems the only one they are taught in schools is the Jewish, completely ignoring other genocide,especially that of Native Americans.

Is it fair to say there is deeper denial against people from our own land (U.S)?

Thank you so very much....my thoughts exactly and I am forever jealous that my peoples holocaust is NEVER even mentioned in schools...never taught in schools ...just like so many others ....their ancestors lives are forever forgotten if they are not handed down from family members what those who came before struggled with ...we Irish don't even get the correct name for our holocaust...we get a watered down potato label so no one ever realizes what happened to our people... how would you AD like it if we all called your holocaust The Great Oxygen Famine of 1939

because as we all know there was only one true holocaust that has the privilege of being the only one denied...the only one that gets the press...the only one people should be outraged about...ONE TRUE HOLOCAUST THAT GETS RI FRONT PAGE NOTICE EVERY DAY FOR SIX YEARS NOW ...FUCKIN PUT A STICKY ON IT AND GET IT OVER WITH

NEVER FORGET.... AD SAYS NEVER AGAIN....we say that too...but it did happen again to his people....but they weren't the first and they won't be the last..

where was AD's people when it was happening to mine? Did they forget? Did they not know what was happening to my people? Oh but we must forgive them for their amnesia ...but they forgot/denied mine


the only reason I bring this up is because it is as important to me as AD's holocaust denial is to him...but he must realize we all live with the denial...we ALL lost so much....


and AD must realize our long suffering also...how our families lost so much...how our families lost their land...their family members

when he goes on and on about his holocaust denial ..it is like a slap in the face to me and I react the only way I know how to...by trying to get though to AD ...YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE THAT THIS SUBJECT IS IMPORTANT TO....

BUT WE DO NOT BRING IT UP SO AN OP ABOUT IT IS ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THIS BOARD PERPETUALLY FOR OVER 6 YEARS NOW

have mercy on our souls and give it a rest AD...every single member of this board admits your holocaust denial is real.... stop preaching to the choir....shoving it in our faces constantly

if I did that here with my own holocaust I would not have lasted a year here but YOU GET AWAY WITH IT FOR YEARS AND YEARS...WHY IS THAT? WHY IS IT THAT YOU GET SPECIAL PRIVILEGES HERE...WHY DO YOU GET A FREE SPAM PASS?

Is it fair to say there is deeper denial against people from our own land (U.S)?

yes ...it is deeper and we are all going to pay the price for our own participation/denial someday

Just a reminder: the above was your first post in this thread.

[seemslikeadream]

I was just confronting Holocaust denial ..

Isn't that what AD's instructive OP asked of me?

Was it the wrong holocaust or just the caps that got me in trouble?

[jakell]

Has there really been a (Nazi) holocaust related thread on the front page for the last six years? Has someone actually been counting?

This said, the front page is pretty big, and it's a pretty hot topic, even after all these years. It's still a fairly hot topic to Europeans anyway, the difference is that in North america, it's probably mainly a Jewish obsession, whereas in Europe it's more general, amongst the 40+ age group anyway.


ETA: On a related note, I have heard it posited by WN's that it was ultimately the Jews (not Europeans) that were behind the Native American genocide. I never really followed this one through as it was on a long list of alleged Jewish crimes.

[seemslikeadream]

yes there absolutely has been a holocaust OP of AD's on the front page of this board for over 6 years...and the only reason this is a hot topic here is because AD thinks it is

and yes I've been keeping track

[Searcher08]

My statement is the absolute truth

Why does RI need an OP about the Jewish Holocaust on the front page every single day ....perpetually for 7 years?

I was curious about this, so went back and looked at the original posts AD made in his first four months and thought they really were excellent, so the thing is, he was not always like he lands for some of us at the moment.
He came across to me as personal, often funny, nuanced, self-disclosive, calm, open-minded yet questioning - and on such sensitive topics as FMSF and Cathy O'Brien. It is a side I feel I have not been on the receiving end of for a long long time.

So a possible way out of this for everyone is just to acknowledge what needs are not being met, as a start.

I have suspected that you have had a direct significent family loss via the Nazi Holocaust, so that when you see anything remotely connected to it, you CANNOT disconnect from it, because its part of you ie it is VERY personal.

I have a need to be acknowledged that my point of view may be really different way of perceiving things than yours and that there is a focus on creating value for each other and the people around - in Non Violent Communication terms creating something and shifting to Heart based 'Giraffe' communication rather than intellect based 'Jackal' thinking.

If there has been one thing Ive come away with from growing up in Belfast in the 70s, it is seeing that when people are not deeply listened to (not second-guessed or lip-serviced), that conflict will happen. And if the conflict happens for a long time, it will take good will, acknowledgement in advance of likely future breakdowns, that there will probably be a mixed period of becoming 'frien-emies' before a lasting peace happens.

FFS If these three can cooperate...
LETS LEAVE THIS CONFLICT IN 2013?

[BrandonD]

I have a need to be acknowledged that my point of view may be really different way of perceiving things than yours and that there is a focus on creating value for each other and the people around - in Non Violent Communication terms creating something and shifting to Heart based 'Giraffe' communication rather than intellect based 'Jackal' thinking.

If there has been one thing Ive come away with from growing up in Belfast in the 70s, it is seeing that when people are not deeply listened to (not second-guessed or lip-serviced), that conflict will happen. And if the conflict happens for a long time, it will take good will, acknowledgement in advance of likely future breakdowns, that there will probably be a mixed period of becoming 'frien-emies' before a lasting peace happens.

FFS If these three can cooperate...
LETS LEAVE THIS CONFLICT IN 2013?

Well said! It seems an exercise in futility to oppose a person in a position of authority who thinks differently than yourself.

What is more important than any individual subject, in my humble opinion, is adherence to the principles of civil discourse. This calls for patience, self-awareness, and consideration of the other person as an equal human being.

[jakell]

I have a need to be acknowledged that my point of view may be really different way of perceiving things than yours and that there is a focus on creating value for each other and the people around - in Non Violent Communication terms creating something and shifting to Heart based 'Giraffe' communication rather than intellect based 'Jackal' thinking.

If there has been one thing Ive come away with from growing up in Belfast in the 70s, it is seeing that when people are not deeply listened to (not second-guessed or lip-serviced), that conflict will happen. And if the conflict happens for a long time, it will take good will, acknowledgement in advance of likely future breakdowns, that there will probably be a mixed period of becoming 'frien-emies' before a lasting peace happens.

FFS If these three can cooperate...
LETS LEAVE THIS CONFLICT IN 2013?

Well said! It seems an exercise in futility to oppose a person in a position of authority who thinks differently than yourself.

What is more important than any individual subject, in my humble opinion, is adherence to the principles of civil discourse. This calls for patience, self-awareness, and consideration of the other person as an equal human being.

As possibly a more impartial observer, I'm wondering if the problems here are not the arguments, but the silences. As there are only a few hours now to 'leave somehting in 2013', it might be a good idea to identify what that something is.

It seems to me that the only way forward is through discussion, I'm sure that anyone familiar with forums knows that an apparent hiatus is often just the act of putting the thing on ice (and ice is bound to eventually melt in a human habitable environment)

My usual default way forward is to ask questions, so here's a couple:

1) I haven't been paying close attention to AD's output over the last half a decade, but I suspect that his 'holocaust denial' (ie pertaining to other genocides) is basically a sin of omission. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

2) It was mentioned above about people 'not being listened to', and here we have a plus in that SLAD is quite eloquent in identifying his/her beef ie that other genocides are not being attended to. I can only see one logical solution, and that is to identify and discuss them individually. It seems to me that generalisation may be the problem here.
Has this been done, and if so why has it faltered? This is what I mean by attending to something.

[8bitagent]

Holocaust denial...from the makers of Gravity denial and Evolution denial.

[slimmouse]

Holocaust denial...from the makers of Gravity denial and Evolution denial.

So, let me get this straight.

If Im studying something that I axxept was the holocaust, does that make me a denier?

Not that I have any particular interest in studying any kind of ethnic genocide, because I know it happens, and its not really my thing. But surely thats not the point.

This is where much of the confusion lies to me.

Meanwhile, what I can say with more or less absolute certainty is that many rich people were denying that the concentration camps and gas chanbers existed, whilst actively supporting the Industry that the extermination of "inferiors" essentially involved.

Does the book title," IBM and the Holocaust" ring a bell?

How about "Wall street and the rise of Hitler"?