Open Letter From Dylan Farrow on Abuse by Woody Allan

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Re: Open Letter From Dylan Farrow on Abuse by Woody Allan

Postby brekin » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:52 am

Thanks for posting Allen's letter, I had just read it elsewhere. Pretty interesting. Here is some points from Vanity Fair that are a good counter balance to his letter on some points:


5:15 PM, February 7 2014
10 Undeniable Facts About the Woody Allen Sexual-Abuse Allegation
By Maureen Orth
inShare
EMail

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/ ... e-10-facts

This week, a number of commentators have published articles containing incorrect and irresponsible claims regarding the allegation of Woody Allen’s having sexually abused his adopted daughter, Dylan Farrow. As the author of two lengthy, heavily researched and thoroughly fact-checked articles that deal with that allegation—the first published in 1992, when Dylan was seven, and the second last fall, when she was 28—I feel obliged to set the record straight. As such, I have compiled the following list of undeniable facts:

1. Mia never went to the police about the allegation of sexual abuse. Her lawyer told her on August 5, 1992, to take the seven-year-old Dylan to a pediatrician, who was bound by law to report Dylan’s story of sexual violation to law enforcement and did so on August 6.

2. Allen had been in therapy for alleged inappropriate behavior toward Dylan with a child psychologist before the abuse allegation was presented to the authorities or made public. Mia Farrow had instructed her babysitters that Allen was never to be left alone with Dylan.

3. Allen refused to take a polygraph administered by the Connecticut state police. Instead, he took one from someone hired by his legal team. The Connecticut state police refused to accept the test as evidence. The state attorney, Frank Maco, says that Mia was never asked to take a lie-detector test during the investigation.

4. Allen subsequently lost four exhaustive court battles—a lawsuit, a disciplinary charge against the prosecutor, and two appeals—and was made to pay more than $1 million in Mia’s legal fees. Judge Elliott Wilk, the presiding judge in Allen’s custody suit against Farrow, concluded that there is “no credible evidence to support Mr. Allen’s contention that Ms. Farrow coached Dylan or that Ms. Farrow acted upon a desire for revenge against him for seducing Soon-Yi.”

5. In his 33-page decision, Judge Wilk found that Mr. Allen’s behavior toward Dylan was “grossly inappropriate and that measures must be taken to protect her.” The judge also recounts Farrow’s misgivings regarding Allen’s behavior toward Dylan from the time she was between two and three years old. According to the judge’s decision, Farrow told Allen, “You look at her [Dylan] in a sexual way. You fondled her . . . You don’t give her any breathing room. You look at her when she’s naked.”

6. Dylan’s claim of abuse was consistent with the testimony of three adults who were present that day. On the day of the alleged assault, a babysitter of a friend told police and gave sworn testimony that Allen and Dylan went missing for 15 or 20 minutes, while she was at the house. Another babysitter told police and also swore in court that on that same day, she saw Allen with his head on Dylan’s lap facing her body, while Dylan sat on a couch “staring vacantly in the direction of a television set.” A French tutor for the family told police and testified that that day she found Dylan was not wearing underpants under her sundress. The first babysitter also testified she did not tell Farrow that Allen and Dylan had gone missing until after Dylan made her statements. These sworn accounts contradict Moses Farrow’s recollection of that day in People magazine.

7. The Yale-New Haven Hospital Child Sex Abuse Clinic’s finding that Dylan had not been sexually molested, cited repeatedly by Allen’s attorneys, was not accepted as reliable by Judge Wilk, or by the Connecticut state prosecutor who originally commissioned them. The state prosecutor, Frank Maco, engaged the Yale-New Haven team to determine whether Dylan would be able to perceive facts correctly and be able to repeat her story on the witness stand. The panel consisted of two social workers and a pediatrician, Dr. John Leventhal, who signed off on the report but who never saw Dylan or Mia Farrow. No psychologists or psychiatrists were on the panel. The social workers never testified; the hospital team only presented a sworn deposition by Dr. Leventhal, who did not examine Dylan.

All the notes from the report were destroyed. Her confidentiality was then violated, and Allen held a news conference on the steps of Yale University to announce the results of the case. The report concluded Dylan had trouble distinguishing fantasy from reality. (For example, she had told them there were “dead heads” in the attic and called sunset “the magic hour.” In fact, Mia kept wigs from her movies on styrofoam blocks in a trunk in the attic.) The doctor subsequently backed down from his contention.

The Connecticut state police, the state attorney, and Judge Wilk all had serious reservations about the report’s reliability.

8. Allen changed his story about the attic where the abuse allegedly took place. First, Allen told investigators he had never been in the attic where the alleged abuse took place. After his hair was found on a painting in the attic, he admitted that he might have stuck his head in once or twice. A top investigator concluded that his account was not credible.

9. The state attorney, Maco, said publicly he did have probable cause to press charges against Allen but declined, due to the fragility of the “child victim.” Maco told me that he refused to put Dylan through an exhausting trial, and without her on the stand, he could not prosecute Allen.

10. I am not a longtime friend of Mia Farrow’s, and I did not make any deal with her. I have been personally accused of helping my “long-time friend” Mia Farrow place the story that ran in Vanity Fair’s November 2013 issue as part of an effort to help launch Ronan Farrow’s media career. I have also been accused of agreeing to some type of deal with Mia Farrow guaranteeing that the sexual-abuse allegation against Woody Allen would be revisited. For the record, I met Mia Farrow for the first time in 2003, more than 10 years after the first piece was published, at a nonfiction play she appeared in for a benefit in Washington, D.C. I saw her and Dylan again the next day. That is the last time I saw her until I approached her in April 2013 to do a story about her family and how they had fared over the years. I talked to eight of her children, including Dylan and a reluctant Ronan. There was no deal of any kind. Moses Farrow declined to be interviewed for the 2013 piece.

Read: The scathing 33-page decision from the presiding judge in Woody Allen’s 1992 custody suit against Mia Farrow.
http://www.vanityfair.com/dam/2014/02/w ... y-suit.pdf
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Re: Open Letter From Dylan Farrow on Abuse by Woody Allan

Postby justdrew » Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:50 am

brekin » 07 Feb 2014 22:52 wrote:Thanks for posting Allen's letter, I had just read it elsewhere. Pretty interesting. Here is some points from Vanity Fair that are a good counter balance to his letter on some points:


5:15 PM, February 7 2014
10 Undeniable Facts About the Woody Allen Sexual-Abuse Allegation
By Maureen Orth
inShare
EMail

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/ ... e-10-facts

This week, a number of commentators have published articles containing incorrect and irresponsible claims regarding the allegation of Woody Allen’s having sexually abused his adopted daughter, Dylan Farrow. As the author of two lengthy, heavily researched and thoroughly fact-checked articles that deal with that allegation—the first published in 1992, when Dylan was seven, and the second last fall, when she was 28—I feel obliged to set the record straight. As such, I have compiled the following list of undeniable facts:

1. Mia never went to the police about the allegation of sexual abuse. Her lawyer told her on August 5, 1992, to take the seven-year-old Dylan to a pediatrician, who was bound by law to report Dylan’s story of sexual violation to law enforcement and did so on August 6.

I'm sure Mia knew full well the doctor was a mandatory reporter.

2. Allen had been in therapy for alleged inappropriate behavior toward Dylan with a child psychologist before the abuse allegation was presented to the authorities or made public. Mia Farrow had instructed her babysitters that Allen was never to be left alone with Dylan.

yeah, she was already mad as hell at him and laying groundwork.

3. Allen refused to take a polygraph administered by the Connecticut state police. Instead, he took one from someone hired by his legal team. The Connecticut state police refused to accept the test as evidence. The state attorney, Frank Maco, says that Mia was never asked to take a lie-detector test during the investigation.

lie detectors aren't very good evidence. and should probably never be treated as evidence. If she was never asked, the thought to take one wouldn't be hard to think of.

4. Allen subsequently lost four exhaustive court battles—a lawsuit, a disciplinary charge against the prosecutor, and two appeals—and was made to pay more than $1 million in Mia’s legal fees. Judge Elliott Wilk, the presiding judge in Allen’s custody suit against Farrow, concluded that there is “no credible evidence to support Mr. Allen’s contention that Ms. Farrow coached Dylan or that Ms. Farrow acted upon a desire for revenge against him for seducing Soon-Yi.”

No evidence again, one way or the other. I don't think anyone would find it odd, given the general lack of evidence, that the mother would win custody, they usually do, baring clear evidence of some bad actions.

5. In his 33-page decision, Judge Wilk found that Mr. Allen’s behavior toward Dylan was “grossly inappropriate and that measures must be taken to protect her.” The judge also recounts Farrow’s misgivings regarding Allen’s behavior toward Dylan from the time she was between two and three years old. According to the judge’s decision, Farrow told Allen, “You look at her [Dylan] in a sexual way. You fondled her . . . You don’t give her any breathing room. You look at her when she’s naked.”

Allen's ALLEGED behavior, all of which is hearsay, accepted by a prejudiced judge. Who clearly already chose to hate the man.

6. Dylan’s claim of abuse was consistent with the testimony of three adults who were present that day. On the day of the alleged assault, a babysitter of a friend told police and gave sworn testimony that Allen and Dylan went missing for 15 or 20 minutes, while she was at the house. Another babysitter told police and also swore in court that on that same day, she saw Allen with his head on Dylan’s lap facing her body, while Dylan sat on a couch “staring vacantly in the direction of a television set.” A French tutor for the family told police and testified that that day she found Dylan was not wearing underpants under her sundress. The first babysitter also testified she did not tell Farrow that Allen and Dylan had gone missing until after Dylan made her statements. These sworn accounts contradict Moses Farrow’s recollection of that day in People magazine.

and inconsistent with other witnesses. so the servants lied for the master of the house, or chose to interpret events in the way Mia would prefer. Could easily even have been premeditated.


7. The Yale-New Haven Hospital Child Sex Abuse Clinic’s finding that Dylan had not been sexually molested, cited repeatedly by Allen’s attorneys, was not accepted as reliable by Judge Wilk, or by the Connecticut state prosecutor who originally commissioned them. The state prosecutor, Frank Maco, engaged the Yale-New Haven team to determine whether Dylan would be able to perceive facts correctly and be able to repeat her story on the witness stand. The panel consisted of two social workers and a pediatrician, Dr. John Leventhal, who signed off on the report but who never saw Dylan or Mia Farrow. No psychologists or psychiatrists were on the panel. The social workers never testified; the hospital team only presented a sworn deposition by Dr. Leventhal, who did not examine Dylan.

judge Wilk was a hack who hated Allen. His findings are prejudiced. How many other "unreliable" findings did this investigatory panel return to courts? I bet zero?

All the notes from the report were destroyed. Her confidentiality was then violated, and Allen held a news conference on the steps of Yale University to announce the results of the case. The report concluded Dylan had trouble distinguishing fantasy from reality. (For example, she had told them there were “dead heads” in the attic and called sunset “the magic hour.” In fact, Mia kept wigs from her movies on styrofoam blocks in a trunk in the attic.) The doctor subsequently backed down from his contention.

Allen has every right to defend himself. and surely their findings did not rest entirely on two misinterpretations of things the child said.

The Connecticut state police, the state attorney, and Judge Wilk all had serious reservations about the report’s reliability.

all of which were probably eager to believe they could really "get" that "little artsy jew bastard." - and anyway, none of them are experts on the subject, that's why expert panels are convened. How many other 'unreliable' reports did they return? Destroying the notes and ensuring the final report is the only product of the investigation is standard practice.

8. Allen changed his story about the attic where the abuse allegedly took place. First, Allen told investigators he had never been in the attic where the alleged abuse took place. After his hair was found on a painting in the attic, he admitted that he might have stuck his head in once or twice. A top investigator concluded that his account was not credible.

I don't find this significant at all, I'd like to see transcripts of exactly what was said. Was that painting ALWAYS in the attic? I bet not.

9. The state attorney, Maco, said publicly he did have probable cause to press charges against Allen but declined, due to the fragility of the “child victim.” Maco told me that he refused to put Dylan through an exhausting trial, and without her on the stand, he could not prosecute Allen.

and Maco was disciplined for making such statements. He does not have the sole right to make that choice not to prosecute if he has such evidence, and if such evidence existed why the hell would Mia not have made it public by now?

10. I am not a longtime friend of Mia Farrow’s, and I did not make any deal with her. I have been personally accused of helping my “long-time friend” Mia Farrow place the story that ran in Vanity Fair’s November 2013 issue as part of an effort to help launch Ronan Farrow’s media career. I have also been accused of agreeing to some type of deal with Mia Farrow guaranteeing that the sexual-abuse allegation against Woody Allen would be revisited. For the record, I met Mia Farrow for the first time in 2003, more than 10 years after the first piece was published, at a nonfiction play she appeared in for a benefit in Washington, D.C. I saw her and Dylan again the next day. That is the last time I saw her until I approached her in April 2013 to do a story about her family and how they had fared over the years. I talked to eight of her children, including Dylan and a reluctant Ronan. There was no deal of any kind. Moses Farrow declined to be interviewed for the 2013 piece.

So she made the deal with someone other than this writer, did an editor ASSIGN this story idea? I bet so. but maybe not, this isn't really important.

Read: The scathing 33-page decision from the presiding judge in Woody Allen’s 1992 custody suit against Mia Farrow.
http://www.vanityfair.com/dam/2014/02/w ... y-suit.pdf

whatever, a lot of judges are assholes, ever notice that? and for all I know maybe at that time he wasn't great 'dad' material, that doesn't make him a monster.


all replied to points were written a second after the point was read. I think my objections are fairly obvious. The fact is, people do sometimes lie and fuck with the minds of children for revenge. It can happen. No evidence of sexual molestation were found. The child initially told the first doctor nothing happened. Then got a a talking to, went back and changed the story.

I just don't see this as possible, there would be others if he were the type to do this. There would be some kind of evidence that doesn't look cooked.

That doesn't mean this kind of stuff doesn't occur, but in this one case, I disbelieve. I would change my mind if there were some sort of evidence, or even if his character were different, but I can not imagine this guy doing this, based only on these stories, that seem clearly to have been cooked up by Farrow in fury over her other adopted daughter's and her ex-man-friend's inconvenient love.

I'm truly sorry if that bothers anyone, but I don't believe this story. I do believe others.
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Re: Open Letter From Dylan Farrow on Abuse by Woody Allan

Postby brekin » Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:05 am

justdrew wrote:

all replied to points were written a second after the point was read. I think my objections are fairly obvious. The fact is, people do sometimes lie and fuck with the minds of children for revenge. It can happen. No evidence of sexual molestation were found. The child initially told the first doctor nothing happened. Then got a a talking to, went back and changed the story.
I just don't see this as possible, there would be others if he were the type to do this. There would be some kind of evidence that doesn't look cooked.

That doesn't mean this kind of stuff doesn't occur, but in this one case, I disbelieve. I would change my mind if there were some sort of evidence, or even if his character were different, but I can not imagine this guy doing this, based only on these stories, that seem clearly to have been cooked up by Farrow in fury over her other adopted daughter's and her ex-man-friend's inconvenient love.
I'm truly sorry if that bothers anyone, but I don't believe this story. I do believe others.


justdrew, your obviously in the Allen camp. I'm just curious if you have read the 33 page judges custody report? One of the things that to me that looks very bad for Allen is that according to that report (pages 4-6) Allen was in treatment for supposedly behaving inappropriately with Dylan and this was a subject that Farrow had discussed with him. A Dr. Coates testified to that fact. Doesn't that look like a red flag to you? Or do you not believe the report at all? Even though people are under oath?

Also according to the report, Allen ignored almost all the children (especially the Previn children), all the time, until he started a fixation with Dylan. And then only later with Soon-Yi, who before was someone in his own words (page 7) "She was someone who didn't like me. I had no interest in her, none whatsover. She was a quiet person who did her work. I never spoke to her." Even from non-partisan accounts Soon-Yi had a very traumatic early childhood and was social and emotional maladjusted, a very vulnerable person. Allen ignores her almost her entire life but then suddenly within a year he decides to marry her because he has fallen in love with her? Because she suddenly blew his minds about her plans to be a model and take psychology classes and their shared passion for the Knicks? It appears Allen only takes interest in Farrow's children when it is inappropriate. I sincerely doubt he would have even married Soon-Yi either if the pictures weren't found.

To me it seems like Allen's inappropriate behavior for both was escalating around this time. According to the report (page 16) "When asked how he felt about sleeping with his children's sister, [they mean Soon-Yi here], he responded that "[s]he [Soon-Yi] was an adopted child and Dylan was an adopted child." Why would he even bring up Dylan in that context?
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Re: Open Letter From Dylan Farrow on Abuse by Woody Allan

Postby FourthBase » Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:40 am

Destroying the notes and ensuring the final report is the only product of the investigation is standard practice.


Is that so? That'd remove a red flag for me.

But this "earlier inappropriateness" thing creates an even redder flag.
What's the deal? What was supposed to have been not appropriate?

Allen had been in therapy for alleged inappropriate behavior toward Dylan with a child psychologist before the abuse allegation was presented to the authorities or made public. Mia Farrow had instructed her babysitters that Allen was never to be left alone with Dylan.


This could be the case if Allen were just a weird, callous, autistic-ish bad parent, too.

In his 33-page decision, Judge Wilk found that Mr. Allen’s behavior toward Dylan was “grossly inappropriate and that measures must be taken to protect her.”


Okay, so it's possible to be a grossly inappropriate parent without being a molester. Most parents wind up damaging their children's psyche one way or another, inadvertently or half-knowingly. With one or another mild or severe form of cruelty, neglect, verbal abuse, emotional abuse. Hence, why there are therapists, enough to see everyone in America, lol. I recommend pretty much anything written by R.D. Laing for more on this. But just think of the cliches alone. The father who's raised to think spanking and belting is not only appropriate, but necessary, all while being to anyone with an unobstructed conscience to be, of course: Grossly inappropriate and abusive, and yet -- astonishingly -- has the backing of millions of other likewise-grossly-inappropriate parents. Or think of the harried, lonely single mother who may on occasion shriek from the front seat that she'll pull this car over right now, and then follows through, but maybe in gentler moments may be a little too attached to a son because it's the only male presence and he's like his father. Not seen by most as grossly-inappropriate perhaps only because it's so common that it's either unnoticed or it's sanctioned out of indifference. The majority of parents, probably, are guilty at some points, or perhaps in some ways on a consistent basis, of being grossly-inappropriate. Now, is there usually a sexual component? More specifically, a conscious non-Freudian non-accidental not-just-overaffectionateness straight-up-sexual element? No. Hell no. So:

The judge also recounts Farrow’s misgivings regarding Allen’s behavior toward Dylan from the time she was between two and three years old. According to the judge’s decision, Farrow told Allen, “You look at her [Dylan] in a sexual way. You fondled her . . . You don’t give her any breathing room. You look at her when she’s naked.”


Red flags abound. But, not so fast. Fondled is a term that needs elaboration. Fondled how? Every normal parent fondles their child. If by "fondling" you mean handling or touching with affection. Which is the dictionary definition, one of them, anyway. But what did Mia mean? What did she see, what's she describing? She tells Allen he looks at a two or three year old sexually. That's an ominously-red flag, if he did, in fact, look at a toddler sexually. But how does Mia determine that about Woody? When would this have been? She was looking at him looking at Dylan in what circumstance? Because presumably Woody would've been present at a diaper-changing, and honestly, if I were a parent changing a child's diaper, I would not want Woody Allen to be an eyewitness to it. There, that's my gut feeling, if you must know. But not necessarily because I suspect him of being a pedophile, but more so because he's just Woody Allen, who is a weirdo, who possibly has undiagnosed Asperger's, who is an anhedonic paranoid mess, who has a grossly-inappropriate relationship with life itself. And just as much as I would feel uncomfortable with a person like that present at the changing of a child, I would also not want to subject that person to such a situation because I would suspect the person is not psychologically equipped to deal in general with such an experience in a mature, normal way. It is not in the least surprising to me that Woody Allen was judged to be a miserable failure of a parental figure. But again, Mia says he looked at Dylan sexually, which is a whole different matter. So...

Is it possible that Mia Farrow was predisposed to perceive a sexual element in whatever hopelessly-awkward way Woody Allen went about relating to a toddler? She was 19 when she dated Sinatra, eh? Does she perhaps expect a man to be a sexual predator because she was herself victimized and so now perhaps that is the lens through which some unsexual behavior could appear to her as sexual? I don't know.

But again, if I had a young daughter, would I trust Woody Allen to be alone with her?
No. At least not unless she's old enough to capably defend herself with kung fu.

But that's a separate standard.
And again, I generally wouldn't like being around Woody Allen.
A 30-something Allen might be fun. Middled-aged misanthrope? Old man Woody? No.
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Re: Open Letter From Dylan Farrow on Abuse by Woody Allan

Postby Spiro C. Thiery » Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:16 am

Everything I have read on this topic, ostensibly either to substantiate the victim, or the alleged perpetrator(s) has been cherry-picked to suit its respective confirmation bias.

This appears to be a classic case of both adult parties concealing bits & pieces of information that would prejudice the public opinion against them. Given this unfortunate reality, this theater is condemned to be no more than that.

Under the present circumstances, no one should feel compelled to declare who they believe.
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Re: Open Letter From Dylan Farrow on Abuse by Woody Allan

Postby justdrew » Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:44 pm

well, I've taken a closer look at the timeline and events and WA's relationship history in more depth and willing to reconsider Wilks as maybe not being a bad judge.

I retract. it now seems possible, even probable.
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Re: Open Letter From Dylan Farrow on Abuse by Woody Allan

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:49 pm

Under the present circumstances, no one should feel compelled to declare who they believe.

Could it be any clearer?

<snip>

Justice Elliott Wilk, the custody judge, wrote a very irresponsible opinion saying when it came to the molestation, “we will probably never know what occurred.”
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Re: Open Letter From Dylan Farrow on Abuse by Woody Allan

Postby brekin » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:46 pm

Iamwhoiam wrote:

Under the present circumstances, no one should feel compelled to declare who they believe.
Could it be any clearer?
<snip>
Justice Elliott Wilk, the custody judge, wrote a very irresponsible opinion saying when it came to the molestation, “we will probably never know what occurred.”


I don't know why people don't go to the primary source and include the whole sentence with context:
(page 24 of the custody report) http://www.vanityfair.com/dam/2014/02/w ... y-suit.pdf

"I agree with Dr. Herman and Dr. Brodzinsky that we will probably never know what occured on August 4, 1992. The credible testimony of Ms. Farrow, Dr Coates, Dr Leventhal and Mr. Allen does, however, prove that Mr. Allen's behavior toward Dylan was grossly inappropriate and that measures must be taken to protect her."


I think when someone comes forward and claims a public figure with immense prestige, power and influence abused them, we owed it to dig in a little instead of throwing our hands up and saying "Well, who knows what happened?"
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Re: Open Letter From Dylan Farrow on Abuse by Woody Allan

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:23 pm

I chose to edit the quote posted by Drew and to set into bold typeface the pertinent line I felt should have been accentuated.

And now I feel it necessary to do the same, and for the same reason, for you, though with different text:

"Justice Elliott Wilk, the custody judge, wrote a very irresponsible opinion saying when it came to the molestation, “we will probably never know what occurred.”


My first comment makes clear my inclination to believe the testimony of the accuser, rather than that of the accused.

Dylan will only find more pain and never any relief for having made her accusation, and that is the true crime; a further victimizing of a victim.

WA's marriage to his "stepdaughter," seen by most as highly inappropriate, must not be discounted. And that's when I lost all admiration of Woody's talent.

edited to add:

And Allan Konigsberg, 78, will not live very long. Perhaps he'll not reach 79.

Is it possible to enjoy his movies, suspecting strongly his criminal behaviors to at least one child? I suppose so. Just like one can appreciate Wagner's music.
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Re: Open Letter From Dylan Farrow on Abuse by Woody Allan

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:49 pm

I think when someone comes forward and claims a public figure with immense prestige, power and influence abused them, we owed it to dig in a little instead of throwing our hands up and saying "Well, who knows what happened?"


Yeah, I hate that. Especially like how the Warren Report revealed Lee Harvey Oswald to be Kennedy's lone assassin. And how James Earl Ray killed King, or the crisis actors involved in Sandy Hook and the Boston Marathon bombing played their parts so well.

Tell me, my friend brekin, do you even know your purpose? Frankly, at 65, I still do not know mine, nor do I know the truth of any allegation ever made (unless It involved me personally), and even then I wonder, who knows what happened?

No faulting you, brekin. None of us knows and unless Allen admits his crimes or Dylan retracts her claims, none of us will ever know what truly transpired between the two.
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Re: Open Letter From Dylan Farrow on Abuse by Woody Allan

Postby brekin » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:24 pm

Iamwhomiam wrote:

Yeah, I hate that. Especially like how the Warren Report revealed Lee Harvey Oswald to be Kennedy's lone assassin. And how James Earl Ray killed King, or the crisis actors involved in Sandy Hook and the Boston Marathon bombing played their parts so well.

Tell me, my friend brekin, do you even know your purpose? Frankly, at 65, I still do not know mine, nor do I know the truth of any allegation ever made (unless It involved me personally), and even then I wonder, who knows what happened?

No faulting you, brekin. None of us knows and unless Allen admits his crimes or Dylan retracts her claims, none of us will ever know what truly transpired between the two.


Iamwhomiam I see your points. I misread your quote at first glance. Not faulting you either. I agree we will most likely never know completely what "happened in the attic". But I do think there is more to Allen's behavior and possible circumstantial evidence that can be gleaned to either lend more credence to Dylans claims or Allen's denials. Sometimes I worry people adopt a post-modern land of multiple truths instead of just sifting a bit.

Honestly, you lost me somewhat with crisis actors via Sandy Hook and the Boston Marathon. I tenderly suggest we put that aside for now. As for my purpose? Getting closer as I'm on the road to find out. But I get the complexity of the truth regarding any allegation. My hunch is though that there is someone or something out there that would put a button on the Dylan/Woody controversy. Allen took pictures of Soon-Yi, perhaps he did something similar? And I hate to even suggest this, but Allen's current adoptive daughters may weigh in at some future date. I like to believe that truth is a part of nature. And as nature, it will always find a way.
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Re: Open Letter From Dylan Farrow on Abuse by Woody Allan

Postby Nordic » Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:39 am

Sheesh I can't believe people here are still arguing about this and in so doing utterly IGNORING the girl herself, and the girl's own account!

And Justdrew, you admit that you are CHOOSING to disbelieve the girls own account because you just don't want to believe that "Woody Allen" would do such a thing. Like you know him!

I don't know anyone who has worked with Woody Allen but I know a lot of people who have worked with another beloved icon of our media culture and they universally say the same thing about him. That he's an in believable dick, a horrible human being, and that he hates kids. Guess who this is: it's Bill Cosby.

Cognitive dissonance runs high and hard, and sucks people in who you wouldn't expect.

You do not know "Woody Allen". Nobody here does. The girl wrote about what happened to her, and you choose to completely ignore it. No, what's important is your feelings for a guy who calls himself "Woody Allen".

And you blame Mia Farrow like it's a crime to get angry at such a grotesque man? A guy who ran off with his common law wife's adopted daughter and who undoubtedly was getting it on with her while she was still a minor?

Have you people no shame?

You defend a sick and dangerous person.

Quit ignoring the victim. It's repulsive.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: Open Letter From Dylan Farrow on Abuse by Woody Allan

Postby Nordic » Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:44 am

And by the way, calling a sunset "magic hour" is what people in the film industry do. It's the term used for that ephemeral piece of time during and right after sunset when the light has a beautiful quality that is almost impossible to mimic with lighting tools.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: Open Letter From Dylan Farrow on Abuse by Woody Allan

Postby 82_28 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:31 am

If this helps, I actually have never liked Allen. Any film I've ever seen from him, I've either turned off or simply avoided or didn't give a shit. There's always been something about him that never sat right. Honestly, I've never understood his fame whatsoever. And honestly as well, I couldn't even name an Allen movie off the top of my head.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Open Letter From Dylan Farrow on Abuse by Woody Allan

Postby FourthBase » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:04 am

Nordic » 08 Feb 2014 23:39 wrote:Sheesh I can't believe people here are still arguing about this and in so doing utterly IGNORING the girl herself, and the girl's own account!

And Justdrew, you admit that you are CHOOSING to disbelieve the girls own account because you just don't want to believe that "Woody Allen" would do such a thing. Like you know him!

I don't know anyone who has worked with Woody Allen but I know a lot of people who have worked with another beloved icon of our media culture and they universally say the same thing about him. That he's an in believable dick, a horrible human being, and that he hates kids. Guess who this is: it's Bill Cosby.

Cognitive dissonance runs high and hard, and sucks people in who you wouldn't expect.

You do not know "Woody Allen". Nobody here does. The girl wrote about what happened to her, and you choose to completely ignore it. No, what's important is your feelings for a guy who calls himself "Woody Allen".

And you blame Mia Farrow like it's a crime to get angry at such a grotesque man? A guy who ran off with his common law wife's adopted daughter and who undoubtedly was getting it on with her while she was still a minor?

Have you people no shame?

You defend a sick and dangerous person.

Quit ignoring the victim. It's repulsive.


EDIT: [Insert righteous flaming. Insert announcement that I'm taking another hiatus from here.]
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that fills you up and makes you naturally want to do your best.” - Bill Russell
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