National Anarchism & the Far Right

[Searcher08]

You're welcome, Searcher. Good luck with getting a rise out of AD, btw. That fucker has nerves of steel - I don't even agree with much of his posting style, but hey, I ignore it and the world keeps spinning. This gang stalking? Now this is entertainment

*more popcorn*

Poem For Rory

I have an insane
mental-shaped
frame of mind
that somehow...
it will all get sorted out and
be
o.k.
and everyone will
love each other and
be cheeky
and share what's in their lunch pail
and then stare at the sky together
and laugh like the Gaian friends we are...

[American Dream]

So jakell, didn't you say you were going to take a clear position regarding the racism and fascism of Third Position ideologies such as National Anarchism?

[Searcher08]

You seem to be rather full of it, ZGB, as this is not the first time you make these kinds of misleading statements. I recognized more than one quote there which wasn't about you at all, and none equal "AD called me a crypto-fascist..

Are you going to provide links to where you got these sketchy cites from?

you are so disingenuous AD ..you are always calling people names ....it is just that you are so smart about it ..you know all to well what you are doing


and then you ask demand that people answer YOUR questions and if they don't then of course they are EXACTLY what you imply that they are

you've done it to us oldies here for years and the new people just don't get it yet


when did you stop beating your wife

are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party

A Quick Review...
Have just re-read as much as I could muster of the Holocaust Denial thread, I was really not impressed at all - jakell provided post after post of rational clear insights (at one point being praised by bph!!) into practical useful anti-fascism strategies, while on the other hand AD agreed with Solace about me being a 'slippery character' , and that I employed having Jewish friends as a mere cover story and a 'well, that is a common tactic Holocaust Deniers use' and framing my own opinion that HD is best fought by factual engagement not trumpeting ideology as a typical HD tactic (by clear implication putting me in that camp) then posted loads of stuff about NK but never bothered reading their sites 'Ten Questions for Zionists'.
From the point of view of engagement, logic and clarity I do not feel I got much back except evasion and fogweed, or in Solace's case sneery obscurantism.

Conclusion
So the whole thing about AD calling jakell 'evasive' brings up feelings for me of, well, pot kettle black and removing logs from one's own eye complaining about mote's in others peoples.
I think this is a huge waste of board members time and resources and some space and time should be allocated to sorting it out.

AD, Willow has already warned you about acting like Senator McCarthy. You said you would reflect on it but I see no change at all, from CopyPasta to hectoring.

[Rory]

That's very kind of you, sweet, silver searcher

[American Dream]

Please recall, Searcher that jakell's reason for trolling so hard from a putatively anti-fascist position was that he wanted to talk to me so much and that he has been incredibly slippery in his two months or so of really posting here. I'll stand on that.

As to your allegation that I am "acting like Senator McCarthy", I have decided that I will stop asking jakell anything, though I will continue to point out funky shit that he does. I gave him a chance to operate in good faith here and we can all see what the result has been (very little good faith activity) And honestly, Searcher, I haven't known you to be the great broker that you seem to position yourself as- because often your critiques seem really slanted by your own biases and are quite one-sided, since you're not at all detached from the situations I've seen you commenting on.

As to all this:

Have just re-read as much as I could muster of the Holocaust Denial thread, I was really not impressed at all - jakell provided post after post of rational clear insights (at one point being praised by bph!!) into practical useful anti-fascism strategies, while on the other hand AD agreed with Solace about me being a 'slippery character' , and that I employed having Jewish friends as a mere cover story and a 'well, that is a common tactic Holocaust Deniers use' and framing my own opinion that HD is best fought by factual engagement not trumpeting ideology as a typical HD tactic (by clear implication putting me in that camp) then posted loads of stuff about NK but never bothered reading their sites 'Ten Questions for Zionists'.
From the point of view of engagement, logic and clarity I do not feel I got much back except evasion and fogweed, or in Solace's case sneery obscurantism.

If you really want to get into argument and counter-argument about your characterizations of that situation- much of which I don't remember and/or understand and some of which I don't agree with- then please let's do it on some other thread as I am decided that I am waiting to see a good faith effort from jakell here only- and anything else would only serve to muddy the waters.

[KUAN]

OK OK OK... lets just take a deep breath and sing along together..

one two three...
Hitler has only got one ball...

[seemslikeadream]

[Elvis]

[Searcher08]

Please recall, Searcher that jakell's reason for trolling so hard from a putatively anti-fascist position was that he wanted to talk to me so much and that he has been incredibly slippery in his two months or so of really posting here. I'll stand on that.

As to your allegation that I am "acting like Senator McCarthy", I have decided that I will stop asking jakell anything, though I will continue to point out funky shit that he does. I gave him a chance to operate in good faith here and we can all see what the result has been (very little good faith activity) And honestly, Searcher, I haven't known you to be the great broker that you seem to position yourself as- because often your critiques seem really slanted by your own biases and are quite one-sided, since you're not at all detached from the situations I've seen you commenting on.

As to all this:

Have just re-read as much as I could muster of the Holocaust Denial thread, I was really not impressed at all - jakell provided post after post of rational clear insights (at one point being praised by bph!!) into practical useful anti-fascism strategies, while on the other hand AD agreed with Solace about me being a 'slippery character' , and that I employed having Jewish friends as a mere cover story and a 'well, that is a common tactic Holocaust Deniers use' and framing my own opinion that HD is best fought by factual engagement not trumpeting ideology as a typical HD tactic (by clear implication putting me in that camp) then posted loads of stuff about NK but never bothered reading their sites 'Ten Questions for Zionists'.
From the point of view of engagement, logic and clarity I do not feel I got much back except evasion and fogweed, or in Solace's case sneery obscurantism.

If you really want to get into argument and counter-argument about your characterizations of that situation- much of which I don't remember and/or understand and some of which I don't agree with- then please let's do it on some other thread as I am decided that I am waiting to see a good faith effort from jakell here only- and anything else would only serve to muddy the waters.

Thanks for your reply.

I am starting from a position of goodwill and that people are ok until they prove themselves otherwise and that even if sometimes they seem to prove otherwise, it is worth looking at what value can come from it.

Let's make this HUMAN and HUMANE.

The very best that I can do in this is to try and have a conversation about everyone getting their needs met. And right at this moment , that is a pretty tough thing to have. Tough, but not impossible.
The board is at a place where IMO it has the choice of self-organisation to a richer state or the stagnation of 'singing the same old song'...

I would be willing to act as a facilitator / mediator in this thread on order to help everyone get their needs met.

This would mean that I would have to remove myself from participating in the content of the O.P. - I have already spent an hour or so reading two articles on Keith Preston's site and responded fully upthread. You provided some context and jakell agreed with a lot of what I said. I said my bit - like most of the thread since then, it has been Meta.

So if everyone is willing, I could give it a go. And I am ACUTELY aware of bumping up against the limits of my skillset -as one of the prime rules of virtual team facilitation is to get everyone together physically first - much non-verbal nuance is lost going digital.

And it may be as nuts as a white guy in a suit with a whiteboard coming in to do mediation between the Bloods and the Crips.

[jakell]

Well done for spending some time having actually having a look at ATS, I trust you have not been 'infected'. If the intent was to detract people away from certain sites, that has certainly backfired.

And it may be as nuts as a white guy in a suit with a whiteboard coming in to do mediation between the Bloods and the Crips.

My ears have been burning something rotten here (probably a confusing UK expression), but I'm playing it by the book. I'm petitioning PW at the moment, and when I get the nod, this 'issue' should be closed down fairly quickly. No bloodshed

[American Dream]

Someone needs to have patience. When I get word back from PW then I will engage, a mod has to be straight up, but I can't be subject to another poster's capriciousness.

Oh, FFS, he's directly asked you a question.

What an unnecessary....

==========================

[Searcher08]

Well done for spending some time having actually having a look at ATS, I trust you have not been 'infected'. If the intent was to detract people away from certain sites, that has certainly backfired.

And it may be as nuts as a white guy in a suit with a whiteboard coming in to do mediation between the Bloods and the Crips.

My ears have been burning something rotten here (probably a confusing UK expression), but I'm playing it by the book. I'm petitioning PW at the moment, and when I get the nod, this 'issue' should be closed down fairly quickly. No bloodshed

I am taking what Willow wrote as saying you can say whatever you want (within the same Forum rules that apply to everyone).

AD, can you point me to a *post* that explains clearly YOUR position on National Anarchism.
Please DO NOT give me a list of sources or weblinks or pages of CopyPasta.
I want to see YOUR thoughts expressed by YOU, not someone else's opinion with you saying a variation of "What I think is sort of like this but not quite".
Show me where you have taken a stand about it.

[jakell]

It's ambiguous, and has the effect of putting the above variable chap in the driving seat (like the first time), and I think we've already been around the block due to that . It shouldn't need interpretation.

I'm looking for something like ... 'Yes, you may engage AD once more'... or a no (like the first time)

I'm sticking to pm's though, this shouldn't be a circus.

[jakell]

[quote="[url=http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?p=536200#p536200]

AD, can you point me to a *post* that explains clearly YOUR position on National Anarchism.
Please DO NOT give me a list of sources or weblinks or pages of CopyPasta.
I want to see YOUR thoughts expressed by YOU, not someone else's opinion with you saying a variation of "What I think is sort of like this but not quite".
Show me where you have taken a stand about it.

The trouble with all the voluminous and shrill stuff about NA that's been posted on here is that it treats it like a really solid position, and I haven't really seen that in my travels, in fact I've only talked with one person who claims this position, it's quite vague and seems to mainly indicate a meeting point between right-leaning anarchists and possibly right wingers who claim to be anarchists, and TBH, I haven't seen such a meeting point that has any substance.

The only substance seems to be reinforced by so-called 'anti-fascists' who are using this unwieldy contraption to bolster their own 'anti' status. (this DIY 'hero' archetype is something I'm going to try and explore at a later date)

[American Dream]

Searcher, I do have a statement of opinion on National Anarchism, from right here on this thread. I only inserted the links for those who may not know what a certain term means:

National Anarchism is rightly considered crypto-fascist and crypto-racist. It exists within a larger milieu which includes Third Positionism/Terza Posizione , National Bolshevism, Autonomous Nationalism/Autonome Nationalisten, Nouvelle Droite, Ecofascism, Strasserite Nazism, etc.

These sort of trends are broadly fascist and fueled by racism and xenophobia. They represent one strategy of several used by the far right to package and market itself, given its general lack of credibility and support since Fascism's defeat in World War Two.

It should be obvious that propagating these sorts of currents is not acceptable at Rigorous Intuition. Given that Rigorous Intuition is an anti-fascist board, keeping clear on these issues is essential.

I'm still waiting for jakell to make a clear preliminary statement of position on N.A, as he has repeatedly claimed he wants that sort of conversation. Given the weak excuses he keeps making, I think he might need some further urging from you to do that.

After that, I'll be happy to expand on my opinion a bit, though the basics are outlined above.