Greenwald drops the bomb on government trolling of internet

[MacCruiskeen]

iawia, with respect: the information in the OP is far too important to justify the locking of the thread. Suggesting it should be locked is, de facto, just exacerbating the situation unnecessarily.

We're on page 4 now. Let's please focus on the information. There will undoubtedly be much more to come.

[Iamwhomiam]

I only seek the end of unintelligent arguing, as I rather enjoy immensely intelligent arguing. I also agree that the subject's of importance to discuss... rationally.
I sought the lock to end the vile argument, not the discussion.

And not to distract further from this topic, I often participate in a local blog hosted by our newspaper. Though not to the depths of this topic, it is surely revealing how this tactic plays out when it emerges: "The Attack of the Blog Zombies"

Perhaps we all should view “(Astro)Turf Wars” by filmmaker Taki Oldham.

"...Oldham secretly recorded a training session organized by a rightwing libertarian group called “The American Majority.” In one segment of the film the so-called trainer Mr. Austin James instructs members of the Tea Party how to “manipulate the medium”.

“Here’s what I do. I get on Amazon; I type in “Liberal Books”. I go through and I say “one star, one star, one star”. The flipside is you go to a conservative/ libertarian whatever, go to their products and give them five stars. … This is where your kids get information: Rotten Tomatoes, Flixster. These are places where you can rate movies. So when you type in “Movies on Healthcare”, I don’t want Michael Moore’s to come up, so I always give it bad ratings. I spend about 30 minutes a day, just click, click, click, click. … If there’s a place to comment, a place to rate, a place to share information, you have to do it. That’s how you control the online dialogue and give our ideas a fighting chance.”

It emerges, as above, among the common folk who put it into practice without looking deeper.

[JackRiddler]

Oh, okay. Lookit this, real people I've actually met or spoken with, saying such things. There's no way I'm pursuing this (very important) subject on this thread, I'll start a new one eventually. But I can leave the flame be -- that is, if I am left alone. I was thinking about how in 1994 (20 years ago) when I got on the Internet, it was obvious to me that this was going to be a vast surveillance and control mechanism for the government and the corporations. But also that it was an opportunity for giving the means of mass communication to a billion people, and so the only way was forward: Speak openly on your politics, don't back down. Expanding freedom and taking away the power of repression was the only way ultimately to succeed, strategies of anonymity and secrecy were ultimately counter-productive. One thing I hadn't fully understood was the way in which this medium would (like all other media) change those who are using it, due to its inherent qualities independently of who is in control of it. Another was that I'd end up making all these real-world friendships, including almost all my romantic relationships, through this medium.

These thoughts occurred to me as I was about to start a whole new thread just now (why let the enemy in a flamewar keep home turf?), about how something must be very wrong with me, if I'm responding with lengthy and discursive text to someone whose idea of argument is to post a story, make no comments on it, add exceedingly stupid puns on my screenname, post a picture of a little girl crying and call it me, decorate with more low-grade insults that, isha'allah, bear no relation to me (and tend to contradict themselves, being a grab-bag), and, finally, declare this as boo-yah!!! Victory!!! And this is what I was going to engage with? That's pretty fucked of me. Is it a problem that some agree with this approach? If they do, they can't be swayed either. And who knows, given the subject of this thread, who they are, or how many of them in actuality? There are a bunch of real humans here whom I actually know in life. (Pretending you must keep yourself secure is one way to hide sock-puppetry, right?)

So, anyway, that's where I was, in Year 20 of the Internet, apparently having learned little in the meantime: I was about to google "ugly fat stupid naked wanker" for visual counter-material. But then I saw the above from mac and iawiam. You guys really ruin it, you know?

.

[brekin]

I don't know how people can fail to see that a system staffed by individuals who think nothing of spying on individuals without their consent doesn't relate to the behavior of Jack's disregard for other people's well being. Someone who flippantly tells people to go kill themselves, repeatedly, all the while pulling out linguistic smoke bombs to justify his behavior and believing he is entitled to do so because he fancies himself a more mandarin caste of poster (and some apologists agree) is the same mindset that those in the intelligence community use to mind and mine "the dumb sheeple".

This isn't an Emily Post thing. Telling a poster, encouraging them to kill themselves is below baseline moral behavior. Allowing, rationalizing away such behavior at this level diminishes ones cred to do it a higher levels.

Am I equating Jack to the NSA, etc.? No, he doesn't have the reach or the ability. But I think he's shown he has the mindset. He also seems to have the institutional protection needed to get away with it and enough colleagues turning a blind eye or giving him the wink. No offense, but the majority of us will never have any influence on determining NSA or related policies. We do, however, have influence on how this forum is conducted. I know many would like to stay "on topic" but consider if someone had told you to go kill yourself, repeatedly and then there were no repercussions for this. How would that effect your ability to stay on topic?

I've spoke my peace on this. But here are the posts where JR Anakin went over to the dark side.

JackRiddler wrote:

This is also 100 percent out-of-your-ass reporting displaying total ignorance about Greece: "Tsipras is personally popular, and seems to be campaigning more on that than on his party's positions."

Now kindly die.

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/view ... kindly+die

JackRiddler wrote:

seemslikeadream » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:59 pm wrote:does that mean jack can only tell long time members to kill themselves....

I don't know about that. Why don't you give it a try and see?

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/view ... lf#p532578

JackRiddler wrote:

Whereas I invite you to do yourself a favor and kill yourself tonight.

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/view ... or#p532409

slimmouse » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:35 pm wrote:On edit. Im glad I caught that Ridllerism prior to it sinking into non-existence. The post has gone.

JackRiddler wrote:
Are you really this stupid, or this much of a liar? Which one is it? None of my posts are gone. They have not been censored, and I feel no need to edit anything I wrote. Here, again: Kill yourself. It's just about the most creative option available to you.

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/view ... lf#p532441

Kill Yourself
http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/view ... 35&t=37757

[JackRiddler]

Incredible! Someone is still on the "kill yourself" kick. Has all the links to these my horrific capital offenses at the ready for a new round! I should put these in my sig line to save time for the local dumbfucks who think their approbation over this is ever going to impress me. If you click, please do scroll up to the context. In each case the things I was replying to were the actual offensive posts, and yes, I'd do it again! Oh god! That's right, slimmouse should kill itself and sepka should kindly die. No one seems to get worked up when truth or logic is raped, but if I don't speak politely in response, that's the worst thing that ever happened on RI. Now here's brekin to give cover-fire to those two trolls, and make me out to be worse than the NSA.

brekin, you're another one who can't actually read. "Now kindly die" is clearly not the same as "kill yourself." Also, if you could read the shit you link to as if it's evidence in a trial, you would understand I did not tell SLAD to kill her precious self, but answered her idea that only I'm allowed to use such language. I invited her to try using the same language (not to kill herself!) and see if she wasn't allowed. This has been clarified about 30 times on as many threads to the satisfaction of everyone except maybe SLAD, who doesn't like to get things after she's decided not to.

At least in your case I'm half-believing the sell, you're so authentically moral in your mind. What's hilarious is seeing some famously vulgar speakers on this board pretend they were so, so appalled!

In any case, I think if we held a poll -- let's call it a trial, why not? -- there'd be a tiny number to convict, a tiny number to exonerate, and 89% "how the fuck is this still an issue?!" But please, why don't you convene the trial thread? Hold a poll on whether to ostracize me. Athenian style. Since this is clearly the greatest threat ever to RI -- my having told slimmouse to kill itself and sepka to kindly die! (and SLAD completely misunderstanding an unrelated comment, but let's make that my crime). Clearly an equal threat to surveillance and trolling by corps and government. Shocker! In fact, it probably IS the government plan. Their trolling presence here consists in my telling slimmouse to kill itself, thus shocking, shocking everyone else.

[redsock]

But I can leave the flame be -- that is, if I am left alone.

As a big fan of Jack's research and writing, I'll delurk and say: Well, this is likely part of the problem. Why not simply ignore what you see as troll bait and move on? Take the higher road. Thinking someone is acting like an asshole and taking that as a challenge to be a bigger asshole is unproductive/counterproductive to RI discussions.

[82_28]

Why not just not troll at all? It's not that difficult to refrain from. I do believe I am past my days here of telling a member to go fuck his/herself, but not beyond saying the same of a nonmember who I happen to despise. Since we're all here, I think it is time to just drop this bullshit. Just shake it off, shake, hug it out and let's all move on. You, we, are all valuable.

[JackRiddler]

There will be no hugging. I don't forget these things, sorry. There have been periods of peaceful, mostly separate co-existence. Perhaps that will be possible again.

[82_28]

It's possible right now, Jack. Be the "bigger person" as they say in the parlance and let bygones be bygones. No sweat.

[JackRiddler]

I doubt you would tolerate without response posts aimed at demonizing you in the brutish and stupid manner of the last one from Nordic, or, after peace was supposedly imminent, brekin's sudden revival of the "kill yourself" shite.

[82_28]

I've probably told Nordic to "fuck himself" dozens of times -- but I have also lent a meager helping hand at one time to him. I am not the maven of virtue here. I'm just saying someone in this ongoing spat has to take the lead as you are all valuable to many.

I don't like how Nordic singularly lead the lead in the dismissal of Hugh. I don't quite know how that decision was arrived at, but whatever. I liked the energy Hugh put into this place. I have no problem with anyone here and only temporarily have I.

I'm just being a friend here and let the bygones be bygones. I've made more friends here than enemies. Which means ZERO enemies. Don't create them because only you can!

[coffin_dodger]

Probably the singlemost shocking and damning piece of information/confirmation that has been released yet. Hornets nest.

[DrEvil]

Probably the singlemost shocking and damning piece of information/confirmation that has been released yet. Hornets nest.

Yup, but it's not just the NSA and GCHQ that do it. Just look at the comments for anything critical of the Sochi Olympics or the current situation in Ukraine. The Guardian in particular suddenly has A LOT of Russian participants.
Or read the reviews on Amazon for anything by Hubbard or Rand.

[Nordic]

Jack, you can dish it out, and do, constantly, but you cannot take it.

If you're gonna dish it out and be a bully, you'd better fucking be prepared for an onslaught of shit thrown back at you.

You're a typical bully. When it comes back at you, you whine like a little baby. Aw you poor liddell thing, your pussy hurts.

You reap what you sow. Cause. Effect. Karma. Deal with it bitch.

[DrEvil]

Damn, dude. What's with the constant misogyny?