Towards Rigorous & Radical Conspiracy Theory

[jakell]

Alternatively, like jakell inferred, you have 'had religion'. I think this is more likely. Somehow you decided that an anti-fascist army of keyboard warriors with you on the white horse at the front ( and deciding admission criteria) is what these times require. And it will start at RI.
Which leaves me baffled - as the audience here must measure in several... tens.

Ahhh.. I see you are initiating Solace in the 'Ancient Art of CopyPasta' now.

Anyway, I wish you good luck.

I was actually trying to broaden the issue a bit from these particular instances here, and show how this issue has such polarised memes that one has to be careful to retain perspective.

On a lighter note relating to CopyPasta. I have opined previously that the amount of decent stuff that is tolerated on here also creates plenty of scope for it's abuse (ie verging on spam).
The comparison with a UK board amused me when someone recently posted the entire JMG article we talked of above:

It's not good form to paste the whole thing...

http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24538&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

[American Dream]

I was actually trying to broaden the issue a from bit these particular instances here, and show how this issue has such polarised memes that one has to be careful to retain perspective.

So, in other words, the elephant in the living room does not exist?

[Searcher08]

Alternatively, like jakell inferred, you have 'had religion'. I think this is more likely. Somehow you decided that an anti-fascist army of keyboard warriors with you on the white horse at the front ( and deciding admission criteria) is what these times require. And it will start at RI.
Which leaves me baffled - as the audience here must measure in several... tens.

Ahhh.. I see you are initiating Solace in the 'Ancient Art of CopyPasta' now.

Anyway, I wish you good luck.

I was actually trying to broaden the issue a from bit these particular instances here, and show how this issue has such polarised memes that one has to be careful to retain perspective.

On a lighter note relating to CopyPasta. I have opined previously that the amount of decent stuff that is tolerated on here also creates plenty of scope for it's abuse (ie verging on spam).
The comparison with a UK board amused me when someone recently posted the entire JMG article we talked of above:

It's not good form to paste the whole thing...

http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24538&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

It was interesting to see on a Peak Oil forum how little tolerance there was for Copy Pasta.

I noticed that the layout of the posts there seemed much less cluttered and much more readable and I would like to see that here.

I doubt that the development of a home grown CT will happen from an environment filled with

-Topics that are hundreds of pages of multi-page screeds
-Russian Doll- complexity nested quotes
-The same pieces posted dozens of times and even
-Entire topics forgotten about and re-animated

IOW one cannot separate the project of producing a CT like this from the environment that gives rise to it.

My assertion is that one needs to look at the tools one has and ask if they are up to the project.


In 2014, a new CT will not come about through people communicating by just by personal visits, or by letters.

I'm not sure if a Forum has the potential 'cognitive bandwidth' either.

[jakell]

It was interesting to see on a Peak Oil forum how little tolerance there was for Copy Pasta.

I noticed that the layout of the posts there seemed much less cluttered and much more readable and I would like to see that here.

I doubt that the development of a home grown CT will happen from an environment filled with

-Topics that are hundreds of pages of multi-page screeds
-Russian Doll- complexity nested quotes
-The same pieces posted dozens of times and even
-Entire topics forgotten about and re-animated

IOW one cannot separate the project of producing a CT like this from the environment that gives rise to it.

My assertion is that one needs to look at the tools one has and ask if they are up to the project.


In 2014, a new CT will not come about through people communicating by just by personal visits, or by letters.

I'm not sure if a Forum has the potential 'cognitive bandwidth' either.

Most of the forums I've been on do not really have massive amounts of CP, just sections and a link, and I think this is in line with the spirit of a discussion section. Like I said, it's ok if done in good faith, but is open to massive abuse. (That KP article on the previous page has been posted several times in the last month)

Regarding nested quotes, there was lots of this on LATOC, and posts got really long, but when I joined BDF, the system itself automatically removed nested quotes, and if you wanted to do this you had to paste them in. I didn't like it at first, but after a while got used to it and actually started to see a few benefits.

[jakell]

Trying to rescue the thread subject, I earlier said this:

The trouble with the issue of 'anti-fascism', and especially of taking a 'conspiracy theory' angle on it, is that it contains very clear delineations of good and evil, and in that sense it is almost like most religions. This is very compelling if one is not careful.

Most conspiracy angles produce the appreciation of further shades of grey, and also (ideally) reduce the simplistic human craving to banish these outright. But in a highly emotive field where there is also the opportunity to cast oneself as a 'soldier of light', one has to be careful about becoming too immersed, to the effect that one's self image become intertwined.
Then we start to see distortions that can ripple outwards to affect all nearby.

This was aimed at a specific discussion at the time, but also says something about the thread topic, ie how to construct a rigorous conspiracy theory.

The originator of the thread seemed to insist on a fairly well defined ideology at the outset of the investigations, I have questioned this several times but have as yet received no response. The above is a specific example of how ideolologies (and especially emotive ones with current hot memes) can be a handicap, not only to a particular investigator, but to anyone else who is looking in.

[American Dream]

Trying to rescue the thread subject, I earlier said this:

The trouble with the issue of 'anti-fascism', and especially of taking a 'conspiracy theory' angle on it, is that it contains very clear delineations of good and evil, and in that sense it is almost like most religions. This is very compelling if one is not careful.

Most conspiracy angles produce the appreciation of further shades of grey, and also (ideally) reduce the simplistic human craving to banish these outright. But in a highly emotive field where there is also the opportunity to cast oneself as a 'soldier of light', one has to be careful about becoming too immersed, to the effect that one's self image become intertwined.
Then we start to see distortions that can ripple outwards to affect all nearby.

This was aimed at a specific discussion at the time, but also says something about the thread topic, ie how to construct a rigorous conspiracy theory.

The originator of the thread seemed to insist on a fairly well defined ideology at the outset of the investigations, I have questioned this several times but have as yet received no response. The above is a specific example of how ideolologies (and especially emotive ones with current hot memes) can be a handicap, not only to a particular investigator, but to anyone else who is looking in.

I was of course, talking about the investigations I would like to do with others- and certainly they are guided by a point of view, even if it is evolving and is not a fixed dogma as such. I cited the people like Tom Burghardt, Peter Dale Scott et al, as examples of rigorous researchers who are guided by some kind of "left" analysis.

For me, this is a great sort of goal to aspire towards. Your mileage may vary.

[jakell]

So, how's your little cabal taking shape (is it now secret)?

I seem to recall that this narrow approach was not particularly popular, and then you went quiet, and then the thread meandered a fair bit.

[American Dream]

So, how's your little cabal taking shape (is it now secret)?

Wouldn't you like to know...

[peartreed]

We’re Lost Boys here without Jeff Wells,
Our Peter Pan with Tinkerbells,
Who took took the magic and the glow
Of secret knowledge few would know.

He left us here with just his shade
That haunts the forum hole he made
And so the rest now fill the void
Abandoned, lost and paranoid.

And paranoid suspicion, creeps
With logic lost in flying leaps
Until false accusations fly
To pin the blame up high and dry.

But there remains a hearty few
Who chase the hidden truths Jeff knew
And carry on exposing plots,
Unraveling loops, untying knots.

Except the few caught up in fights,
In ego clashes, bragging rights,
For last word triumphs in their mind,
As former friendships lost unwind.

Their drama leaves the forum rank
With bright exchanges in the tank,
With interest dying on the vine
For reasons few can still define.

Let’s take a breath, a pause, a break,
And review what we have at stake:
A band of orphans missing Jeff
Or cruel combatants with no ref?

Perhaps a flag of hope unfurled
For return to reason in this world,
Hanging out though singed and burned
With a pole erect for Jeff’s return.

[American Dream]

From what we have seen today, our new friend does not deny supporting Keith Preston/ATS, which all the antifascists I respect agree is an odious, racist/fascist sort of site.

That said, there is certainly a big kernel of truth in what peartreed says: Life shouldn't have to be this hard, that this is an anti-fascist board should be respected and easily sustained- and we should be able to do great things here, in accordance with the very positive example of Jeff Wells himself.

[seemslikeadream]

You should respect the rules also and STOP what you are doing



QUIT USING JEFF'S NAME LIKE YOU ARE SPEAKING FOR HIM - STOP IT

Has Jeff given you permission to speak for him?

Stop pretending you have been appointed nanny to this board ...you are not a mod you are not Jeff

If they decide he doesn't belong here then he will go .....until then stop your crusade

[seemslikeadream]

We’re Lost Boys here without Jeff Wells,
Our Peter Pan with Tinkerbells,
Who took took the magic and the glow
Of secret knowledge few would know.

He left us here with just his shade
That haunts the forum hole he made
And so the rest now fill the void
Abandoned, lost and paranoid.

And paranoid suspicion, creeps
With logic lost in flying leaps
Until false accusations fly
To pin the blame up high and dry.

But there remains a hearty few
Who chase the hidden truths Jeff knew
And carry on exposing plots,
Unraveling loops, untying knots.

Except the few caught up in fights,
In ego clashes, bragging rights,
For last word triumphs in their mind,
As former friendships lost unwind.

Their drama leaves the forum rank
With bright exchanges in the tank,
With interest dying on the vine
For reasons few can still define.

Let’s take a breath, a pause, a break,
And review what we have at stake:
A band of orphans missing Jeff
Or cruel combatants with no ref?

Perhaps a flag of hope unfurled
For return to reason in this world,
Hanging out though singed and burned
With a pole erect for Jeff’s return.

Thanks so much for this peartrees ..I really mean that

but until Jeff returns I will speak up for new people here....they do not deserve to be put through the wringer by a self appointed mod...who keeps pretending he owns this board...that's not the way it works here..

[jakell]

You should respect the rules also and STOP what you are doing



QUIT USING JEFF'S NAME LIKE YOU ARE SPEAKING FOR HIM - STOP IT

Has Jeff given you permission to speak for him?

Stop pretending you have been appointed nanny to this board ...you are not a mod you are not Jeff

If they decide he doesn't belong here then he will go .....until then stop your crusade

I think AD likes the slow corrosive drip drip drip method. There is something a little odd about this 'cult of Jeff' business (so many mentions), as if the current board membership are not capable of assessing things for themselves.

In his absence, the weight of expectations on him seems to keep increasing. It's a lot to ask of someone.

Thanks so much for this peartrees ..I really mean that

but until Jeff returns I will speak up for new people here....they do not deserve to be put through the wringer by a self appointed mod...who keeps pretending he owns this board...that's not the way it works here..

Thanks for that Slad, but I'm sort of over this guy now, and am past the 'hump'. I think that's what really stings, the fact that I'm a bit nonplussed and not easy to bait. all the other stuff is just muttering.

[solace]

From what we have seen today, our new friend does not deny supporting Keith Preston/ATS, which all the antifascists I respect agree is an odious, racist/fascist sort of site.

That said, there is certainly a big kernel of truth in what peartreed says: Life shouldn't have to be this hard, that this is an anti-fascist board should be respected and easily sustained- and we should be able to do great things here, in accordance with the very positive example of Jeff Wells himself.

As long as there are regular posters who support assholes like Atzmon, Icke and all the other sketchy bastards they do, "anti-fascist board," is just a saying. Or maybe a vague goal.

[seemslikeadream]

you don't contribute any thing here solace but call people fucking anti-semites so why are you here? You don't bring anything to this board but calling people names I don't understand what you are doing here...you never post anything new or different...never a positive post about anything ...you never bring anything to the table but post in AD's threads just to complain about other posters that are ruining the board for you but you don't contribute a damn thing...WHY ARE YOU HERE? I have not seen one post of yours that brings anything of value here...you pop in to call people names and then leave..you are a one note poster...just like AD....Jeff did not leave you in charge of this board ...you are not a mod..you do not own this board...leave the moderation of this board to the mods...they are in charge...quit pretending to oversee this place ...it is not your job

if someone here is an anti-semite Jeff would have them gone in a second...Jeff has known me for over 10 years ...he knows I am not a fucking anti-semite like you have called me several times...why are you calling into question Jeff's understanding of who I am? Why are you deciding your opinion here means more than Jeff's....why do you think you know more than Jeff does