How Bad Is Global Warming?

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby DrEvil » Mon May 12, 2014 1:41 am

Ben D » Sun May 11, 2014 11:15 pm wrote:
DrEvil » Mon May 12, 2014 12:31 am wrote:
Ben said: DrEvil...I assure you that I would never try to deceive you or anyone else ever....


Like when I mentioned your bible prophecies, and you tried to pass it off as if I was joking? And then I linked to your blog where you wrote those things and you never mentioned it again. Like that?

Yeah - you're a shining beacon of truthfulness.*

*May contain sarcasm

What is wrong with you...gone crazy? firstly I thought your quip was very clever...and secondly, why would I not like you to link to my blog post...I like it that it gets publicity.

Ok, this is so weird. I actually agree with you. :shock:
But beyond that, please explain to me and everyone how did my not mentioning your linking to my blog makes me a deceiver? Btw, I was not going to mention the graph discussion again after you admitted to me it was valid...but I may decide to follow it up if it means you think it makes me a deceiver by not doing so.


Your reply to me when I linked it was (paraphrasing): "Good one :D ", which to me very much sounded like you were implying that I was trying to be funny and that there was nothing to see. Maybe not an outright lie, but clearly an attempt at evasion.
I then posted your entire blog-post and you never mentioned it again (until now).

And I must admit - I'm curious how you reconcile being a Buddhist with thinking the US is the beast from revelations. Didn't think Buddhists believed in Satan. :?
Oh, and if you're a Buddhist, doesn't that mean you believe in reincarnation too? If so, shouldn't you be playing it safe? Your future selves are going to hate your guts if you're wrong.

Also: See my shiny new sig.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
User avatar
DrEvil
 
Posts: 4142
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Mon May 12, 2014 2:47 am

DrEvil » Mon May 12, 2014 3:41 pm wrote:Your reply to me when I linked it was (paraphrasing): "Good one :D ", which to me very much sounded like you were implying that I was trying to be funny and that there was nothing to see. Maybe not an outright lie, but clearly an attempt at evasion.
I then posted your entire blog-post and you never mentioned it again (until now).

And I must admit - I'm curious how you reconcile being a Buddhist with thinking the US is the beast from revelations. Didn't think Buddhists believed in Satan. :?
Oh, and if you're a Buddhist, doesn't that mean you believe in reincarnation too? If so, shouldn't you be playing it safe? Your future selves are going to hate your guts if you're wrong.

Also: See my shiny new sig.

So not so unexpectedly I suppose, you were wrong again...your quip actually made me laugh, I din't think you had a sense of humour....so far as the prophecy is concerned, unless you have the prerequisite understanding of the scripture free from traditional interpretations, the USA wouldn't be obvious...particularly if you are an ordinary Christian or Hebrew.

I am not a Buddhist, but religion and science are my life...wrt religion, I am non-sectarian and as home with studying Sanatana Dharma, Zen, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Taoism, Theosophy, and Mysticism, as I am with science...I suppose people whose belief systems are already set find it odd to find someone who isn't into belief systems...there is truth in all religions and science disciplines... but also a lot of dead wood and error to go with it.

And yes..so what is the significance of the page you linked to on your sig line?
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

** or Nirvana, Allah, Brahman, Tao, etc...
User avatar
Ben D
 
Posts: 2005
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:10 pm
Location: Australia
Blog: View Blog (3)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby DrEvil » Mon May 12, 2014 5:11 am

Ben D » Mon May 12, 2014 8:47 am wrote:
DrEvil » Mon May 12, 2014 3:41 pm wrote:Your reply to me when I linked it was (paraphrasing): "Good one :D ", which to me very much sounded like you were implying that I was trying to be funny and that there was nothing to see. Maybe not an outright lie, but clearly an attempt at evasion.
I then posted your entire blog-post and you never mentioned it again (until now).

And I must admit - I'm curious how you reconcile being a Buddhist with thinking the US is the beast from revelations. Didn't think Buddhists believed in Satan. :?
Oh, and if you're a Buddhist, doesn't that mean you believe in reincarnation too? If so, shouldn't you be playing it safe? Your future selves are going to hate your guts if you're wrong.

Also: See my shiny new sig.

So not so unexpectedly I suppose, you were wrong again...your quip actually made me laugh, I din't think you had a sense of humour....so far as the prophecy is concerned, unless you have the prerequisite understanding of the scripture free from traditional interpretations, the USA wouldn't be obvious...particularly if you are an ordinary Christian or Hebrew.

My understanding of scripture is that it's a curated selection of writings by people who lived around 2000 years ago, meant to prop up the existing power structures of the time. A propaganda tool, in other words. (And I'm neither Christian or Hebrew, I'm atheist.)
I am not a Buddhist, but religion and science are my life...wrt religion, I am non-sectarian and as home with studying Sanatana Dharma, Zen, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Taoism, Theosophy, and Mysticism, as I am with science...I suppose people whose belief systems are already set find it odd to find someone who isn't into belief systems...there is truth in all religions and science disciplines... but also a lot of dead wood and error to go with it.

And yes..so what is the significance of the page you linked to on your sig line?


The link should be obvious. It's where you completely fail to understand the science you're posting about. You came to the exact opposite conclusion of what the power-point presentation you posted actually said. Just figured I'd stick it in my sig. for easy reference. :thumbsup
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
User avatar
DrEvil
 
Posts: 4142
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Mon May 12, 2014 5:24 am

DrEvil » Mon May 12, 2014 7:11 pm wrote:The link should be obvious. It's where you completely fail to understand the science you're posting about. You came to the exact opposite conclusion of what the power-point presentation you posted actually said. Just figured I'd stick it in my sig. for easy reference. :thumbsup

I beg your pardon...you've lost me, please be explicit and point out where exactly you think I failed to understand the science?
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

** or Nirvana, Allah, Brahman, Tao, etc...
User avatar
Ben D
 
Posts: 2005
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:10 pm
Location: Australia
Blog: View Blog (3)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby brainpanhandler » Mon May 12, 2014 11:37 am

Ben D » Sun May 11, 2014 4:01 pm wrote: show me an example of where I tried to deceive someone.


At your service... right here:
Ben D » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:47 pm wrote:It's a given that Judith Lean aligns herself with the AGW skeptics. Get over it already and stop wasting my time and obfuscating the facts...


I will concede that an alternative explanation is that you were/are just too thick to understand your error. But giving you at least enough credit to be able to read at an 8th grade level I am only left with the conclusion that you were trying to decieve readers into believing Lean held views she clearly didn't.

You're welcome. If I can be of further assitance just let me now.
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr.
User avatar
brainpanhandler
 
Posts: 5113
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:38 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Luther Blissett » Mon May 12, 2014 3:08 pm

Climate Disruptions Hitting More and More Tribal Nations
Terri Hansen 5/7/14

Native Americans have long had a close relationship with their lands and waters—sacred places and resources that define their lives. The disruptions wrought by a warming climate are forcing abrupt cultural changes on peoples with a long reliance on a once stable ecosystem.

Among the special issues affecting tribes, the 2013 Assessment of Climate Change in the Southwestern United States (SWCA) cited “cultural and religious impacts, impacts to sustainable livelihoods, population emigration, and threats to the feasibility of living conditions.”

The Hoh, Quinault, Quileute and Makah nations inhabit low-lying land along the west coast of Washington State, and face similar threats as rising sea levels and the other impacts of climate disruptions endanger their villages.

''The area is relatively vulnerable,'' Patty Glick, senior global warming specialist and author of a 2007 National Wildlife Federation report, ''Sea Level Rise and Coastal Habitats in the Pacific Northwest,'' told Indian Country Today Media Network in 2008. Higher wave action, wave force and destructive storm surges will increase in the coming decade, Glick said, and destructive storms such as the hurricanes will become more frequent.

The Hoh road to the beach has washed out, and the ocean has destroyed the homes that once lined their beach. In Quinault, a passing storm tossed gigantic logs onto the school grounds. These events intensified both tribes’ agenda to get higher ground returned from the Olympic National Park beyond their tiny reservation boundaries.

The Makah and the Quinault nations have large reservations, but their seaside villages are at risk, as evidenced by the recent state of emergency at Quinault headquarters in Taholah, which faced an increasingly dangerous situation with sea level rise and intensified storms, which breached a sea wall causing serious damage.

According to Climate Central, which uses data from NOAA and the USGS, there is a greater than one in six chance that sea level rise, plus storm surge, plus tides, will raise sea levels by more than one foot before 2020 along the coastline and in the Puget Sound region, where another eight tribes are situated. The Shoalwater Bay sits nearly out to sea in southwest Washington.

Rising sea levels will affect Washington's shoreline habitat for vegetation, animals, birds and fish, according to Glick’s report. Marshes, swamps and tidal flats will be significantly affected, and salmon and shellfish habitat are expected to be significantly affected, Glick reported.

Along Alaska's northwestern coast, melting sea ice has reduced natural coastal protection. Increased coastal erosion is causing some shorelines to retreat at rates averaging tens of feet per year. In Shishmaref and Kivalina, Alaska, severe erosion has caused homes to collapse into the sea, according to the Environmental Protection Agency, forcing these Alaska Native Village populations to relocate in order to protect lives and property.

Moving inland, “Climate change is slowly tipping the balance in favor of more frequent, longer lasting, and more intense droughts,” states the SWCA. The Navajo Nation is experiencing annual average temperatures warmer than the 1904-2011 average, cites a climate report released in March 2014. Latest figures show their drought continuing beyond 2010 studies into July 2013, indicating the drought continues.

Perhaps among the worst of those impacts are the runaway sand dunes it has unleashed, which extend over one-third the 27,000-square-mile reservation. During the 1996-2009 drought period the extent of dune fields increased by some 70%. These dunes are moving at rates of approximately 35 meters per year, covering houses, burying cars and snarling traffic, degrading grazing and agricultural lands, contributing to the loss of rare and endangered native plants, and when they occur contributing to poor air quality, a serious health concern for many of the reservation’s 173,667 residents.

Intertribal organizations around the U.S. are recognizing climate change and variability as a significant factor that can impact tribal resources, livelihoods, and cultures, cites the latest tribal climate report. The National Tribal Air Association notes that “perhaps no other community of people has experienced the adverse impacts of climate change more than the nation’s Indian tribes.”

The struggle will soon come to more tribes. Sea level rise projections do not bode well and may already be a cause of concern for the tribes along Louisiana’s Gulf of Mexico—the United Houma Nation, the Atakapa-Ishak Nation, Pointe-au-Chien Tribe, and the Biloxi-Chitimacha’s Isle de Jean Charles Band, Grand Caillou/Dulac Band and Bayou Lafourche Band. In Florida—the Miccosukee, and some locations of the Seminole Indian Reservations. Ocean residing tribal nations in California include the Agua Caliente Band of Cahuilla, Cahto, Chumash, Hoopa, Karok, Kumeyaay, Luiseño Bands of Indians, Maidu, Miwok, and some bands of the Pomo Nation. Some are more at risk than others.


Read more at http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.c ... page=0%2C1
The Rich and the Corporate remain in their hundred-year fever visions of Bolsheviks taking their stuff - JackRiddler
User avatar
Luther Blissett
 
Posts: 4991
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:31 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby slimmouse » Mon May 12, 2014 3:16 pm

@BPH.

I have very little doubt that there are competing elites around the world, but there is zero real competition when it comes to those few who run energy and finance.

And funnily enough, this is where I believe that the hard core of so many problems of our world are demonstrably found.

In my own humblest, conciliatory opinion.

Just as a general aside, Ive been hearing a lot about Geo engineering lately. Is there any reference to any of this in the IPCC panel reports?
slimmouse
 
Posts: 6129
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 7:41 am
Location: Just outside of you.
Blog: View Blog (3)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Rory » Mon May 12, 2014 3:24 pm

Geoengineering is a bag of shite - a panacea term which represents unproven and largely untested ideas but is used to present a solution to climate change that doesn't involve a great big global fossil fuel diet.

ie: Business As Usual
Rory
 
Posts: 1596
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:08 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Rory » Mon May 12, 2014 3:26 pm

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/j ... ate-change

John Oliver has a message for those who are skeptical of scientists' overwhelming consensus that humans are speeding up climate change: "Who gives a shit?"

"You don't need people's opinions on a fact," Oliver said Sunday on HBO's "Last Week Tonight." "You might as well have a poll asking which number is bigger, 15 or 5? Or, do owls exist?"

The science behind climate change shouldn't be up for debate, Oliver said, but since televised debates on climate science are often presented as "Bill Nye the Science Guy versus some dude" -- or versus S.E. Cupp -- viewers are misled into thinking the issue could go either way.

So if there must be a debate on climate science, Oliver said there's only one mathematically fair way to go about it -- packing three climate skeptics, Bill Nye and 96 other scientists into a room and then seeing which group drowns out the other.


Video at link
Rory
 
Posts: 1596
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:08 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby slimmouse » Mon May 12, 2014 4:01 pm

Rory » 12 May 2014 19:24 wrote:Geoengineering is a bag of shite


I really hope you didnt mean that we take your opening sentence quite literally.

Because if you did Rory, heres another view.....

“I am a doctoral researcher at University of Reading (UK) looking a domestic electrical loads, when I stumbled across the science of ‘environmental manipulation’, encompassing Geoengineering, Weather Modification and Military Operations – all of which pose a significant risk to natural systems. Period. Having investigated the climate change debate and become acquainted with ‘the bigger picture’ – delineated by topics such as politics, geopolitics, history, meteorology, sociology, economics, physics, metaphysics, quantum mechanics, medicine, law, military and many others – I concluded that something was wrong. In fact many ‘things’ are wrong with the version of reality that is presented to us by the mainstream media and government. It has taken over 1,500 research hours to comprehensively put together the pieces of the geoengineering puzzle, which pulls in all of the other subjects mentioned afore, it just does. The vast majority of people simply don’t have the energy or time to investigate such overarching topics as geoengineering, thus many are left in the dark. Herein, I simply aim to shed some light on this murky area, for those at stage one of ‘the journey’.”


Link; http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/05/12/g ... operation/

There do seem to be an awful lot of these kinds of people about these days, wouldnt you say?
slimmouse
 
Posts: 6129
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 7:41 am
Location: Just outside of you.
Blog: View Blog (3)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Rory » Mon May 12, 2014 4:39 pm

Excuse me while I don't run to the hills in panic.

Bag of shite
Rory
 
Posts: 1596
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:08 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Mon May 12, 2014 7:26 pm

brainpanhandler » Tue May 13, 2014 1:37 am wrote:
Ben D » Sun May 11, 2014 4:01 pm wrote: show me an example of where I tried to deceive someone.


At your service... right here:
Ben D » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:47 pm wrote:It's a given that Judith Lean aligns herself with the AGW skeptics. Get over it already and stop wasting my time and obfuscating the facts...


I will concede that an alternative explanation is that you were/are just too thick to understand your error. But giving you at least enough credit to be able to read at an 8th grade level I am only left with the conclusion that you were trying to decieve readers into believing Lean held views she clearly didn't.

You're welcome. If I can be of further assitance just let me now.

Judith Lean used that 'It's the Sun Stupid' interview piece by Bruce West, a fellow solar scientist, which implied that the Sun could be responsible for as much as 70% of the global warming, as her last slide of her presentation at the Nagoya Workshop on the Relationship between Solar Activity and Climate Changes in 2012.

Now in the WUWT post on this, Anthony Watts duly reported the facts, but there were a few commenters who thought, perhaps because the Bruce West piece contradicted her own earlier work, she may have been indulging in some insider sarcasm towards Bruce West.

However Nicola Scafetta, a solar scientist who collaborated with Bruce West in the paper which came up with the figure of 70%, commented on the issue and suggested that Judith Lean, had changed her position as a result of the their paper using the 40 to 70% figure and was moving towards accepting it.....

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/02/08/interesting-presentations-from-the-nagoya-workshop-on-the-relationship-between-solar-activity-and-climate-changes/#comment-887909

Nicola Scafetta says: February 8, 2012 at 1:27 pm

In her last slide shown above, Lean is clearly referring to an interview to Bruce West who was asked to comment the results of our papers. For example:

Nicola Scafetta, and Bruce J. West, “Phenomenological reconstructions of the solar signature in the NH surface temperature records since 1600.” J. Geophys. Res., 112, D24S03, doi:10.1029/2007JD008437 (2007).
http://www.fel.duke.edu/~scafetta/pdf/2007JD008437.pdf

where it is clearly proven that solar activity could count between 40% and 70% of the warming since 1850 according to whether PMOD or ACRIM total solar irradiance are used.

Indeed, our results contradict Lean’s estimate of a small secular solar effect on climate in Lean and Rind (2008). However, the reason why Lean gets a smaller contribution is because she uses her TSI proxy model that would agree with PMOD TSI composite and, more importantly, she uses a purely linear model to determine the secular solar impact on climate, which has nothing to do with physics because a purely linear regression model assumes that the heat capacity of the climate system does not have a relaxation time response.

A detailed rebuttal of Lean linear regression model argument is not only present in my papers, but it is explicitly presented in my later paper:

N. Scafetta, “Empirical analysis of the solar contribution to global mean air surface temperature change,” Journal of Atmospheric and Solar-Terrestrial Physics 71 1916–1923 (2009), doi:10.1016/j.jastp.2009.07.007
http://www.fel.duke.edu/~scafetta/pdf/ATP2998.pdf

Lean essentially appears to move away from her previous claims and she is moving to acknowledge our empirical results.

So no...from the post and the Scafetta comment...no reasonable person would accuse me of attempted deception...but then reason is something that AGW alarmists are short of.
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

** or Nirvana, Allah, Brahman, Tao, etc...
User avatar
Ben D
 
Posts: 2005
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:10 pm
Location: Australia
Blog: View Blog (3)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Rory » Mon May 12, 2014 8:51 pm

Watts is a shill, paid by Heartlands Institute (lobby/pressure group who lie for money - particularly fossil fuel companies)

Watts is also a liar, bought and paid for by those who wish to discredit legitimate climate science in the pursuit of protecting oil/coal/auto industry profits.
Rory
 
Posts: 1596
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:08 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby brainpanhandler » Mon May 12, 2014 9:21 pm

Smoke and mirrors Ben. I'm not gonna waste much time on this.

Here is a presentation Lean gave as recently as April 23 2014. It doesn't sound to me like she has changed her opinion that Anthropogenic ghg emissions have a much greater effect on earth's temperature than solar irradiance variations.



She definitively is not an AGW skeptic. Unless you have some bizarre definition of AGW skeptic.

You knew it then. You know it now.

Liar, liar, pants on fire.
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr.
User avatar
brainpanhandler
 
Posts: 5113
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:38 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Mon May 12, 2014 9:43 pm

Rory » Tue May 13, 2014 10:51 am wrote:Watts is a shill, paid by Heartlands Institute (lobby/pressure group who lie for money - particularly fossil fuel companies)

Watts is also a liar, bought and paid for by those who wish to discredit legitimate climate science in the pursuit of protecting oil/coal/auto industry profits.

Haha...you think legitimate climate science is limited only to AGW scientists who have been predicting increased human caused warming into the 21st century and have been shown to be wrong...while those who claimed the human CO2 emissions were too little to cause the AGW scientist's projections have been shown to be correct by the continuing 17 year pause, you try to discredit and imply they are not ligitimate.
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

** or Nirvana, Allah, Brahman, Tao, etc...
User avatar
Ben D
 
Posts: 2005
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:10 pm
Location: Australia
Blog: View Blog (3)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 78 guests