Mass Shooting in California

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Mass Shooting in California

Postby justdrew » Mon May 26, 2014 3:29 am

By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

Re: Mass Shooting in California

Postby Zombie Glenn Beck » Mon May 26, 2014 4:15 am

Reading his manifesto I really dont see the influence of MRA/PUA on him. As young as 11 years old he had his weird obsession with sexual inadequacy. He even cut friends out of his life once they became sexually active and he couldnt handle the shame of dealing with them. This was a completely life consuming issue for him. Even in a world where he never found any of that nonsense I dont see his life ending very good. The general pattern is for him to experience some kind of wrongdoing, either real or imagined, very meticulously catalog it in his mind and then withdraw further and further from real life. Someone like that, who just sits and broods and hates while shutting everything potentially positive out of his life is a powder keg.

I realize he took some phrasings from the "manosphere" but you have to understand, at one point in time this stuff was ubiquitous in general nerddom. Every forum, every convention, every DnD table, you could always find some dude talking about how they were the alphanerd who got all the pussy and we really needed to read Tucker Max. This reached its peak a long time ago, and now its dying down. If you start unironically talking about being "alpha" youre probably just going to get people speculating on the length of your neckbeard. Evaporative cooling of beliefs is in effect which is why you have shit like the Waifu Movement and the Red pill. He uses terms like "incel", but Im gessing that kind of lingo is pervasive among people who do 5 hour raids daily.

Even his posts on PUAhate, the only ones I can find are him talking about how short he is: http://imgur.com/a/Qf8Dn

And his whole worldview doesnt really line up with the PUA party line. When he talks about getting chicks he thinks its all about him driving a BMW or being rich, or having family in Hollywood. According to PUA, the proper way to get women is to use the power of your CONFIDENCE to make every vagina in a 5 mile radius China Syndrome through the earths crust. He seemed to legitimately not understand that there is an interpersonal element at all.

As much as I dont like "manosphere" jackasses, you cant really chalk this up to them.
barracuda wrote:The path from RI moderator to True Blood fangirl to Jehovah's Witness seems pretty straightforward to me. Perhaps even inevitable.
User avatar
Zombie Glenn Beck
 
Posts: 244
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:55 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Mass Shooting in California

Postby Searcher08 » Mon May 26, 2014 4:45 am

Does anyone know if he was on psych meds? I have not heard anything reported?
User avatar
Searcher08
 
Posts: 5887
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:21 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Mass Shooting in California

Postby 82_28 » Mon May 26, 2014 4:52 am

It dawned on me that had he grown up in CA back in the 80's he would/could have been turned onto the band The Descendents. It certainly would have made an impact. He would have had a community that shared angst, but most importantly love. He would have been going to shows and shit and probably would have met girls. These guys I think caught me in time at the age of 12ish. These are some of my most formative songs.













The Descendents were (are) a totally sane version of this Rodger character. Same qualms and same ostensible insecurities. Just positive instead. There is no REAL positive music anymore that can impact like the pre-internet mix-tape. Way more or too much bandwidth now. Back then no matter how rich he would have been he'd be driving a Datsun and doing this with Super8 and still waiting for his shit to get developed.

Makes you think. . .
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
User avatar
82_28
 
Posts: 11194
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:34 am
Location: North of Queen Anne
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Mass Shooting in California

Postby smoking since 1879 » Mon May 26, 2014 5:01 am

it strikes me that the violent video game angle is not being discussed because vvg's have become much like wallpaper these days.

Peace
"Now that the assertive, the self-aggrandising, the arrogant and the self-opinionated have allowed their obnoxious foolishness to beggar us all I see no reason in listening to their drivelling nonsense any more." Stanilic
smoking since 1879
 
Posts: 509
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:20 pm
Location: CZ
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Mass Shooting in California

Postby Zombie Glenn Beck » Mon May 26, 2014 5:03 am

Searcher08 » Mon May 26, 2014 4:45 am wrote:Does anyone know if he was on psych meds? I have not heard anything reported?


http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/ ... in-hiding/

Some very shady sources claim he was on some kind of psychiatric meds but he refused to take them.
barracuda wrote:The path from RI moderator to True Blood fangirl to Jehovah's Witness seems pretty straightforward to me. Perhaps even inevitable.
User avatar
Zombie Glenn Beck
 
Posts: 244
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:55 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Mass Shooting in California

Postby SonicG » Mon May 26, 2014 7:56 am

Zombie Glenn Beck » Mon May 26, 2014 3:15 pm wrote:Reading his manifesto I really dont see the influence of MRA/PUA on him.....As much as I dont like "manosphere" jackasses, you cant really chalk this up to them.


Great post...this whole thing is going down concurrently with some weird personal energies so I parsed the autobio/manifesto last night as the xanax kicked in...I started to muse, as I lost my virginity at 20, looking back at how I might sometimes obsess about how to "get chicks" or wonder why young ladies would swoon over my handsome friend, with his almost Rob Lowish good looks...oh, because of his looks...But this poor kid really tortured himself...I hate to ask but does he mention prostitutes in it? Because he had no trouble dropping 7,000 dollars on lottery tickets - he felt pretty confident it would make him a millionaire...Oh and he seems fairly racist above and beyond the Indian thing on that bodybuilder forum..

And OH! 82_28 - I grew up SoCal real time with the Descendents - the original incarnation who, indeed, put out two albums of perfect SoCal suburban pop punk - which may sound commonplace now but they were definitely the originators. And I listened to a lot of other HC and punk so, definitely, that community of people with a shared aesthetic and cultural ethos certainly helped me get through a lot of shitty times...

There was also the Meatmen: "If you still have girl problems, the answer is at the end of your arm!" :yay
"a poiminint tidal wave in a notion of dynamite"
User avatar
SonicG
 
Posts: 1512
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:29 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Mass Shooting in California

Postby Searcher08 » Mon May 26, 2014 9:10 am

David Attias February 23, 2001 Isla Vista massacre


Witnesses say two people shooting from black BMW

Other witness to two men in black BMW
http://www.keyt.com/news/shooting-in-isla-vista/26152454

Interview with his father re "Oh My God!" project

Oh My God trailer
User avatar
Searcher08
 
Posts: 5887
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:21 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Mass Shooting in California

Postby 8bitagent » Mon May 26, 2014 9:38 am

Was hoping the 2007(VT tech, Omaha mall shooting) to 2012(Batman massacre/Sandy Hook) era of 22 year old loner mass shooter dudes was over...apparently not.

I will bring up syncs because it's an important detail: This son of the Hunger Games director goes on a killing spree in his car in the exact area where the son of the Sopranos/90210/Ally Mcbeal
tv director also went on a killing rampage in his car back in 2001(yelling "I am the angel of death" after his spree)

Not sure if Forteana or just more examples of self entitled spoiled rich kid dipshits acting out.
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Mass Shooting in California

Postby 8bitagent » Mon May 26, 2014 9:40 am

aw yes..... "second shooter reports".... only a matter of time before people bring up "drills" and oh, what's that new one..."crisis actors". Yep.

Also ya know what, I was 26 before I got "laid", 24 before I made out with a chick. Never once felt like acting out over my lifelong friendzoning. Then again Im not a rich LA kid.
This kid feels like a reddit subforum taken to absurd heights. Though I also happen to consider Natural Born Killers one of my absolute favorite, cathartic films. But def count me in
on Alex Jones worst nightmare: a person all for total gun control
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Mass Shooting in California

Postby Searcher08 » Mon May 26, 2014 9:46 am

Werd - the first "Isla Vista is a hoax" vids have already come out.
User avatar
Searcher08
 
Posts: 5887
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:21 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Mass Shooting in California

Postby 8bitagent » Mon May 26, 2014 9:46 am

82_28 » Mon May 26, 2014 3:52 am wrote:It dawned on me that had he grown up in CA back in the 80's he would/could have been turned onto the band The Descendents.


There is no REAL positive music anymore that can impact like the pre-internet mix-tape.



Everything now is either wussed out lame hipster rock/indie folk garbage or nauseating autotuned radio disney pop music...unless ya dig really deep into the bandcamp/soundcloud subculture. But no freaking way
acts like 1994 Nine Inch Nails, 1996 Marilyn Manson, 1992 Ministry, 1984 Dead Kennedys, 1991 GG Allen, 1993 Rage Against the Machine etc could exist in this terrible ultra politically correct safe sterile climate.
Everything is hashtag totes selfie smart phone addiction social networking blah. I wish I was a little older to have fully enjoyed the 80's
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Mass Shooting in California

Postby 8bitagent » Mon May 26, 2014 9:49 am

Time is a flat fucking circle
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isla-v ... re-n113966
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Isla_Vista_massacre

Attias is the son of veteran television director Daniel Attias, whose credits include "Entourage," "The Sopranos" and other high-profile shows.
And even the emerging profile of the suspect, identified by a family attorney and authorities as 22-year-old Elliot Rodger, has chilling parallels to that of the perpetrator of the Feb. 23, 2001, spree — from his Hollywood parentage to his apparent struggles with women.

David Attias, a freshman at the University of California, Santa Barbara, mowed down and killed four people near the university with his 1991 Saab on that terrifying night. Witnesses later testified that Attias then got out of the car and shouted: "I am the Angel of Death."
Rodger, the suspect in Friday's shooting spree, is the son of Peter Rodger, an assistant director on the blockbuster Hollywood movie "The Hunger Games."


"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Mass Shooting in California

Postby Luther Blissett » Mon May 26, 2014 10:41 am

It's a total joke to act like his hatred of women doesn't come first and foremost. He repeats it ad nauseam.

Let's call the Isla Vista killings what they were: misogynist extremism
For some time now, misogynist extremism has been excused, as all acts of terrorism committed by white men are excused, as an aberration, as the work of random loons, not real men at all. Why are we denying the existence of a pattern?

BY LAURIE PENNY PUBLISHED 25 MAY, 2014 - 14:46

It’s time to call misogynist extremism by its name.

On Friday night, a young man went on a massacre in Santa Barbara that left six other people dead and seven injured. In the hours before the massacre, the suspect, 22-year-old Elliot Rodger, had uploaded a video to YouTube titled “Retribution”. In this, and in a 140-page manifesto published online, Rodger claimed that he was going to prove himself the ultimate “alpha male” and take revenge on all the “sluts” who had sexually rejected him:

"Tomorrow is the day of retribution, the day in which I will have my revenge . . . you girls aren't attracted to me, but I will punish you all for it. I’ll take great pleasure in slaughtering all of you. You will finally see that I am in truth the superior one, the true alpha male.”

This is not the first time that women and unlucky male bystanders have been massacred by men claiming sexual frustration as justification for their violence. In 1989, 25-year-old Marc Lépine shot 28 people at the École Polytechnique in Quebec, Canada, claiming he was "fighting feminism". Fourteen women died. In 2009, a 48-year-old man called George Sodini walked into a gym in the Pittsburgh area and shot 13 women, three of whom died. His digital manifesto was a lengthier version of Rodger’s, vowing vengeance against the female sex for refusing to provide him with pleasure and comfort. Online misogynists approved.

“When men kill women, the underlying reason is almost always an unfulfilled psychosexual need . . . to men celibacy is walking death, and anything is justified in avoiding that miserable fate,” wrote “Roissy in DC” of the Pittsburgh killing, as reported by Jezebel in 2009. “At least it is implied that feminism is to blame and he is taking a last stand,” said another. “I had been waiting for this (almost thinking I had to do it myself) and I am impressed. Kudos."

The ideology behind these attacks - and there is ideology - is simple. Women owe men. Women, as a class, as a sex, owe men sex, love, attention, “adoration”, in Rodger’s words. We owe them respect and obedience, and our refusal to give it to them is to blame for their anger, their violence - stupid sluts get what they deserve. Most of all, there is an overpowering sense of rage and entitlement: the conviction that men have been denied a birthright of easy power.

Capitalism commodifies that rage, monetises it, disseminates it through handbooks and forums and crass mainstream pornography. It does not occur to these men that women might have experienced these very human things, too, because it does not occur to them that women are human, not really. Women are prizes to be caught and used or hags to be harassed or, occassionally, both.
Violent extremism always attracts the lost, the broken, young men full of rage at the hand they’ve been dealt. Violent extremism entices those who long to lash out at a system they believe has cheated them, but lack they courage to think for themselves, beyond the easy answers they are offered by pedlars of hate. Misogynist extremism is no different. For some time now misogynist extremism has been excused, as all acts of terrorism committed by white men are excused, as an aberration, as the work of random loons, not real men at all. The pattern is repeatedly denied: these are the words and actions of the disturbed.

"All I ever wanted was to love women, and in turn to be loved by them back. Their behaviour toward me has only earned my hatred and rightfully so! I am the true victim in all this. I am the good guy. . . I didn't start this war."

This is how extremism works. It takes the valid and substantial anger of the dispossessed and tortures it into something twisted. It promises the lost and despairing that they will have the respect and sense of purpose they have always longed for, if they only hate hard enough. And often it starts as a game, as shadow-play.

I make no apologies for the fact that this piece is full of rage. When news of the murders broke, when the digital world began to absorb and discuss its meaning, I had been about to email my editor to request a few days off, because the impact of some particularly horrendous rape threats had left me shaken, and I needed time to collect my thoughts. Instead of taking that time, I am writing this blog, and I am doing so in rage and in grief - not just for the victims of the Isla Vista massacre, but for what is being lost everywhere as the language and ideology of the new misogyny continues to be excused.

Why can we not speak about misogynist extremism - why can we not speak about misogyny at all - even when the language used by Elliot Rodger is everywhere online?

We are told, repeatedly, to ignore it. It’s not real. It’s just "crazy", lonely guys who we should feel sorry for. But as a mental health activist, I have no time for the language of emotional distress being used to excuse an atrocity, and as a compassionate person I am sick of being told to empathise with the perpetrators of violence any time I try to talk about the victims and survivors. That’s what women are supposed to do. We’re supposed to be infinitely compassionate. We’re supposed to feel sorry for these poor, confused, vengeful individuals. Sometimes we’re allowed to talk about our fear, as long as we don’t get angry. Most of all, we mustn’t get angry.

We have allowed ourselves to believe, for a long time, that the misogynist subcultures flourishing on- and offline in the past half-decade, the vengeful sexism seeding in resentment in a time of rage and austerity, is best ignored. We have allowed ourselves to believe that those fetid currents aren’t really real, that they don’t matter, that they have no relation to "real-world" violence. But if the Isla Vista massacre is the first confirmed incident of an incident of gross and bloody violence directly linked to the culture of ‘Men’s Rights’ activism and Pickup Artist (PUA) ideology, an ideology that preys on lost, angry men, then it cannot be ignored or dismissed any more.

We like to think that violent misogyny - not sexism, but misogyny, woman-hatred as ideology and practice, weaponised contempt for one half of the human race - isn’t something that really happens in the so-called West. No matter how many wives and girlfriends are murdered by their husbands, no matter how many rapists are let off because of their "promising careers", violence against women is something that happens elsewhere, somewhere foreign, or historical, or both. So anxious are we to retain this convenient delusion that any person, particularly any female person, who attempts to raise a counter argument can expect to be harassed and shouted down.
As soon as women began to speak about the massacre, a curious thing happened. Men all over the world - not all men, but enough men - began to push back, to demand that we qualify our anger and mitigate our fear. Not all men are violent misogynists.

Well, there have always been good men. Actually, I firmly believe that today there are more tolerant, humane men who recognise and celebrate the equality of the sexes than there have ever been before. Today, what I hear from many men and boys who talk to me about gender justice - decent, humane men and boys of the kind the twenty-teens are also, blessedly, producing in great numbers - is fear and bewilderment. Who are these people? Where do they live? And the unspoken fear: do I know them? Might I have met some of them, drunk with them? If the wind had changed when I was growing, if I had read different books and had different friends, might it have been me? If any man is capable of this, is every man capable of it?

Well, those are the correct questions to ask. What I hear more often, however, is “not all men”. I hear that age-old horror of women’s anger drowning out everything else. Not all men are like this. Don’t look at us. Don’t shout at us. Please, don’t ask us to stand up and be counted.
One thing I’ve found, when talking to people involved in the savage end of the "Men’s Rights" community, the Pickup Artist scene, or both, is that to a chap they are keen that I understand the difference between their grouplet and the next - those guys over there hate women, those guys over there have a broken worldview, we’re the reasonable ones. And before the charges of book-burning and censorship begin: interpretation does change everything. There are certainly men out there who engage with the ideas of "Pickup Artistry" without absorbing the contemptuous misogyny at its core, much less pursuing it to its conclusion. One of my best relationships, in fact, was with a young man who swore by The Game as a handbook for shy boys who wanted to be able to talk to girls at parties, whilst mocking the sexism at its core.

So no, it’s not all men. But then it never was.

But if you think for one second, for one solitary second, that demanding tolerance for men as a group, that dismissing the reality of violence against women because not all men kill, not all men rape, if you think that’s more important than demanding justice for those who have been brutalised and murdered by those not all men, then you are part of the problem. You may not have pulled the trigger. You may not have raised your hand to a woman in your life. But you are part of the problem.

This is not the time, to use the refrain of apologists for bigotry, to play devil’s advocate. The devil has more than enough advocates today. On most days, I can put up with aggressive faux-objectivity being used to shout down women’s experiences and silence gendered trauma, but not today.

"Women should not have the right to choose who to mate and breed with. That decision should be made for them by rational men of intelligence . . . Women have more power in human society than they deserve, all because of sex. There is no creature more evil and depraved than the human female."

I know for sure that just by writing this I will have exposed myself to more harassment, more threats, more verbal assaults. The comments below this piece will be stuffed, as they always are, with rank sexism, along with by a few brave souls trying to counter their arguments or maintain some pretence at tolerant, adult debate. I have clear memories of a time when I really looked forward to engaging with people who commented on my blog, even when we disagreed, when online politics was an exciting, dynamic space of living conversation. I remember it, and it’s in the cache, so it must have happened. But many young women at the start of writing and digital careers today have no such memories.

I didn’t experience violent misogyny as a child - sexism, yes, but my early years were free of direct experience of woman-hatred against me or my loved ones, except as an abstract concept, the fear that gets taught to all girl-children as soon as they can stand unaided: don’t walk down that street, don’t wear that skirt, don’t speak too loud or upset the men. You’ll get hurt. You could get killed. For today’s girl-children, that has been expanded to include: don’t go on the internet. Bad men are there, men who will hurt you.

Many of us choose to ignore those warnings. We choose to act instead like we are real human beings with a right to take up space, like almost all women and girls who have managed to achieve anything throughout history, because that’s what those warnings are for, what the violence behind them is for - to scare us into submission. We make that choice again every day, and somehow it does not get easier - because the older and stronger we get, the bigger and stronger the new feminist movement gets in all its glorious variety, the more vicious and committed the backlash becomes. The backlash is real. There is ideology behind it. It hurts. Sometimes, it kills.

For the countless women and girls who have come to live with harassment as a daily cost of being in public and productive while female - let alone while feminist - the tragedy at Isla Vista has been a chilling wake-up call. I know I will never be able to tell myself in quite the same way that the men who link me to two-hundred-post threads about how I ought to be raped can’t actually hurt my body, no matter how much they savage my peace of mind.

We have been told for a long time that the best way to deal with this sort of harrassment and violence is to laugh it off. Women and girls and queer people have been told that online misogynists pose no real threat, even when they’re sharing intimate guides to how to destroy a woman’s self-esteem and force her into sexual submission. Well, now we have seen what the new ideology of misogyny looks like at its most extreme. We have seen incontrovertible evidence of real people being shot and killed in the name of that ideology, by a young man barely out of childhood himself who had been seduced into a disturbing cult of woman-hatred. Elliot Rodger was a victim - but not for the reasons he believed.

Misogyny is nothing new, but there is a specific and frightening trend taking place, and if we’re not going to accept it, we have to call it by its name. The title of the PUA bible belies the truth: this is not a game. Misogynist extremism does not exist in a mystical digital fairyland where there are no consequences. It is real. It does damage. It kills. And this is no longer a topic where abstraction is anything approaching appropriate.
The Rich and the Corporate remain in their hundred-year fever visions of Bolsheviks taking their stuff - JackRiddler
User avatar
Luther Blissett
 
Posts: 4991
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:31 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Mass Shooting in California

Postby 8bitagent » Mon May 26, 2014 10:52 am

Oh god, he started his spree stabbing to death both his roommates. I didn't know about that. The anger the father of one of the male victims(contrary to what social media is portraying, half the victims were male)
is so piercing and raw. Of all the grieving families Ive ever seen in 36 years of seeing the news, this man right here exhibits the sort of rage and raw emotion more victims families need to have.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/25/justice/c ... ?hpt=hp_t1
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 159 guests