How to Understand And Confront Holocaust Denial

[jakell]

Above we have a refreshingly short article, and so to spot the rather blatant error in it should be quite easy for the giant brains here.

ETA: Previous page actually, but I'm sure folks got my drift

[DrEvil]

Why don't you indulge us? Share your wisdom, man!
(Too early for me to brain properly)

[American Dream]

Probably that UKIP gave her the boot after too much bad publicity, as I posted last year. Still these sorts of losers keep popping up, like poisonous mushrooms at the root of a rotten tree...

[jakell]

It doesn't take any wisdom, that's sort of the point, for those who do not want to look over the page, here it is again:

http://class-struggle-anarchism.tumblr.com/post/86266582429/standing-on-farages-right-there-in-the-white

Standing on Farage’s right there in the white waistcoat is UKIP candidate for east Sussex council, Mrs Anna-Marie Crampton.

Here are some of her opinions:

The Second World Wide War was engineered by the Zionist jews and financed by the banksters to make the general public all over the world to feel so guilty and outraged by the Holocaust that a treaty would be signed to create the State of Israel as we know it today.

uhm

The Rothschilds are Zionists..there is a difference between Jews and Zionists. These Psychopaths hide behind and use the Jews… It was thanks to them that 6 million Jews were murdered in the War (along with 26 million Russians!)

It’s like they have a little checklist - white supremacists, check… homophobes, check… misogynists, check… wait, have we had an anti-semite yet? Let’s put one up for election!

UKIP, the party that will take you to court for calling them fascists who also just happen to be holocaust deniers.

A clue (if one is needed) is in the last two words, and the title of this thread.

[American Dream]

Let's go back to the original post:

How to Understand And Confront Holocaust Denial


1. WHAT ARE THE MAIN CLAIMS OF HOLOCAUST DENIAL?
The international movement of Holocaust denial uses several strategies and lines of argumentation. They use a range of tactics, from outright denial of facts of the Nazi genocide to various forms of minimalization and trivialization of the Nazi crimes.

The first, most extreme, strategy is explicitly denying the facts of the genocide of the Jewish people, which according to the deniers simply never took place and is a wholly fabricated story, which in their opinion was invented in the interests of the state of Israel and the international Jewish conspiracy. In particular, all evidence of killing people in gas chambers is disputed by the deniers. Of course, such extreme claims of the Holocaust deniers are easily defeated, simply by quoting the numerous testimonies of survivors and witnesses of the Holocaust. For this reason, the revisionists pay some attention to challenging the survivors' accounts, accusing them all of being motivated by self-interest or falsified. Similarly, a number of Holocaust deniers invested some energy into claiming the famous diary of Anne Frank is false and it was allegedly written after the war.

When they cannot refuse to admit that Jews and other victims of Nazism did die during World War II, the revisionists argue that the number of people killed was in fact much smaller than generally thought. Reports of atrocities and mass killing are considered exaggerated. They attempt to minimize the amount of suffering and destruction which resulted from Nazi policies in Europe, claiming the causalities were simply results of armed conflict and diseases, and not of an intentional policy of genocide conducted by Hitler and his allies.

Finally, in order to trivialise and relativize the Nazi crimes, the revisionists try to give them a kind of justification by claiming that Nazi brutality was not worse than alleged atrocities committed by the other side during World War II, the Allied bombing of Germany, especially of Dresden, being mainly exploited for this purpose (members of regional parliament of the rightwing extremist National Democratic Party of Germany even applied the term "bombing holocaust" when referring to the Allied bombing of Dresden).

The revisionists like to cite examples of other events in world history to show that brutality is "normal" throughout ages and the Nazis should not be blamed for using harsh methods. They often mention the crimes of communism and argue that the crimes of fascism were not unique and in some ways Hitler's war could be seen as defence of European values against communism.

Holocaust denial comes in a variety of forms, however it is often more implicit than explicit. Subtle forms of Holocaust denial can also appear through discursive methods such as quotation marks, usage of the words 'claim', 'allege' etc. Today when outright denial is hardly credible, subtle means become more common practice.


http://www.unitedagainstracism.org/pages/thema02.htm

[BrandonD]

It doesn't take any wisdom, that's sort of the point, for those who do not want to look over the page, here it is again:

http://class-struggle-anarchism.tumblr.com/post/86266582429/standing-on-farages-right-there-in-the-white

Standing on Farage’s right there in the white waistcoat is UKIP candidate for east Sussex council, Mrs Anna-Marie Crampton.

Here are some of her opinions:

The Second World Wide War was engineered by the Zionist jews and financed by the banksters to make the general public all over the world to feel so guilty and outraged by the Holocaust that a treaty would be signed to create the State of Israel as we know it today.

uhm

The Rothschilds are Zionists..there is a difference between Jews and Zionists. These Psychopaths hide behind and use the Jews… It was thanks to them that 6 million Jews were murdered in the War (along with 26 million Russians!)

It’s like they have a little checklist - white supremacists, check… homophobes, check… misogynists, check… wait, have we had an anti-semite yet? Let’s put one up for election!

UKIP, the party that will take you to court for calling them fascists who also just happen to be holocaust deniers.

A clue (if one is needed) is in the last two words, and the title of this thread.

I believe Jakell is trying to point out that this group which is accused of being "holocaust deniers" is quoted as saying "It was thanks to them that 6 million Jews were murdered in the War" - so if that quote is accurate then it seems they are not in fact holocaust deniers.

Do I get a gold star?

[American Dream]

Let's get back to the original post:

How to Understand And Confront Holocaust Denial


1. WHAT ARE THE MAIN CLAIMS OF HOLOCAUST DENIAL?

The international movement of Holocaust denial uses several strategies and lines of argumentation. They use a range of tactics, from outright denial of facts of the Nazi genocide to various forms of minimalization and trivialization of the Nazi crimes...

Holocaust denial comes in a variety of forms, however it is often more implicit than explicit... Today when outright denial is hardly credible, subtle means become more common practice.


http://www.unitedagainstracism.org/pages/thema02.htm

[jakell]

It doesn't take any wisdom, that's sort of the point, for those who do not want to look over the page, here it is again:

http://class-struggle-anarchism.tumblr.com/post/86266582429/standing-on-farages-right-there-in-the-white

Standing on Farage’s right there in the white waistcoat is UKIP candidate for east Sussex council, Mrs Anna-Marie Crampton.

Here are some of her opinions:

The Second World Wide War was engineered by the Zionist jews and financed by the banksters to make the general public all over the world to feel so guilty and outraged by the Holocaust that a treaty would be signed to create the State of Israel as we know it today.

uhm

The Rothschilds are Zionists..there is a difference between Jews and Zionists. These Psychopaths hide behind and use the Jews… It was thanks to them that 6 million Jews were murdered in the War (along with 26 million Russians!)

It’s like they have a little checklist - white supremacists, check… homophobes, check… misogynists, check… wait, have we had an anti-semite yet? Let’s put one up for election!

UKIP, the party that will take you to court for calling them fascists who also just happen to be holocaust deniers.

A clue (if one is needed) is in the last two words, and the title of this thread.

I believe Jakell is trying to point out that this group which is accused of being "holocaust deniers" is quoted as saying "It was thanks to them that 6 million Jews were murdered in the War" - so if that quote is accurate then it seems they are not in fact holocaust deniers.

Do I get a gold star?

You would if it weren't so glaringly obvious. But well done for bypassing the 'Emperor's New Clothes' syndrome that seems to exist around AD's relentless unexamined pablum.

It was risible in the original piece, and is doubly so when pasted without a second glance. Above though, AD did repeat his previous C&P about 'subtle' holocaust denial, so maybe this somehow counts as that.

[American Dream]

Words of wisdom from jakell, our very trustworthy friend who keeps trying to link us to communities of great men like those described here:

http://liveraf.wordpress.com/2012/06/12 ... n-the-70s/

DID NICK GRIFFIN AND ANDREW BRONS WANT TO GAS RACIAL MINORITIES IN THE ’70S?
June 12, 2012



A now available on DVD “World in Action” documentary, reveals that when BNP MEP’s Nick Griffin and Andrew Brons were National Front leaders in the 1970′s, their party had privately decided to gas Britain’s racial minorities at concentration camps whose future locations had already been chosen.

**UPDATE** See full documentary here

As some BNP members have decided that their party is no longer hardline enough, and have apparently as a result joined the National Front, it is important for anti-fascists to make the public aware that when the BNP’s 2 MEP’s, Nick Griffin and Andrew Brons, were NF leaders, that party privately favoured killing Britain’s racial minorities and Jews in gas chambers, at concentration camps whose future locations had already been chosen, instead of deporting them, partly because deporting people would have been more expensive than gassing them, and partly because NF members thought that gassing racial minorities and Jews would have been “fun”, as the 1978 “World in Action” documentary “The Nazi Party”, which was based on testimony from NF and ex-NF members, and a sworn statement by an unpaid Special Branch spy in the NF revealed.

That documentary is on the 3rd volume of the 3 compilations of old “World in Action” programmes which have been released so far:

http://www.networkdvd.net/product_info. ... ts_id=1494

Of course, there ought to be a special effort to explain to people in the North West, and Yorkshire and Humber regions, which Nick Griffin and Andrew Brons represent in the European Parliament, that if they vote BNP in the 2014 European election, they will be voting for men who were previously leaders of a party which privately wanted to gas British racial minorities and Jews for fun.

That policy was of course not revealed to the public, as its then leader, John Tyndall, told an American fascist, in a letter which “World in Action” obtained, that he wanted the NF to pose as a moderate party, while neo-Nazis controlled it from behind the scenes. It goes without saying, that telling the public that the party planned to gas huge numbers of people for fun, would not have been a big vote winner.

John Tyndall published a pro-gas chambers article in the February 1965 issue of his “Spearhead” magazine, which “World in Action” quoted from, so the NF’s gas chambers at future concentration camps plans were hardly surprising:

At the time when the NF was privately planning to gas people, its Yorkshire chairman was Andrew Brons, and the national organiser of its Young National Front Students organisation was Nick Griffin, so did they have no problem with being leaders of a pro-gas chambers party, and, in the case of Brons, with the violent crime convictions of Yorkshire NF members (including the 1976 terrorism conviction for possessing bombs of Leeds NF member Richard Craven, who told police that he was waiting for a chance to assassinate a public figure), which were a major focus of the “World in Action” documentary?

The Special Branch spy alleged that the NF’s national and local leadership knew about the violence of NF members (which helped the NF, by increasing racial tensions), but did nothing to stop it, so if that allegation was correct, not only Andrew Brons, but also Nick Griffin was aware that they were leaders of a very violent organisation, whose members clearly had far more convictions per person for violent crime offences, than members of non-fascist parties.


Reproduced via - http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2012/06/496980.html

[American Dream]

Whatever You Call It, We Are Against Your Shit







http://postthirdpositionfascism.wordpre ... inst-shit/

[American Dream]

https://liveraf.wordpress.com/2014/01/2 ... onspiracy/

BNP UNCOVER (ANOTHER) JEWISH CONSPIRACY

Posted by Marmite on January 26, 2014


Protocols: with depiction of “Evil Jew”

The world has always been full of conspiracy theory. It’s what used to get “witches” burnt at the stake. It’s also what can lead to genocide.
The Nazis were very taken with a book called “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion,” a notorious Antisemetic work about a ‘worldwide Jewish conspiracy’ for world domination. It was published in Russia in the very early part of the last century.

Anyone with a clear mind who read the book was quite aware that it was a hoax, a cruel and crude forgery, depicting a secret meeting of Jews hatching a plot to carve up the world.

They (the Nazis), decided the contents of the book were justification enough to murder millions of Jewish people. It even found its way onto the German school curriculum as a “must read” book.



After the Second World War, the defeated admirers of the Nazis decided that the Holocaust was itself to become another conspiracy. If you lied about facts enough, and waited long enough, soon memory would fade and the victim would then become the victimized again. The British National Party (BNP), has a long history of denying the Holocaust and claiming that it is in fact, a lie; that the murder of millions of Jews, Roma, Gays, Communists, Socialists, mentally ill and the disabled (among others), were never gassed by the Nazis.

Holocaust denial has been on and off the menu for the British National Party (BNP) in recent times. Its founder, John Tyndall, was a long time Jew-hater who sold “The Protocols..” via BNP publications. Tyndall himself admitted that the book was a fake and a forgery, but still, in his opinion, it did give people a fairly accurate idea of what the Jews were up to.

And Tyndall knew what the Jews were up to because he had read “The Protocols..” When he was mildly popular and important, current BNP leader Nick Griffin MEP, made sure that nobody would run around publicly talking about Jewish conspiracies or the Holocaust being a “hoax”. He did have to call the Holocaust a hoax however, to ensure he got the top job in the BNP. It comes with the territory.

As things have slid-and slid badly in the BNP, Griffin is once more letting Jew hating and conspiracy out of the bag again.

Back in 2012 we saw an updated version of Jewish conspiracy theory raise its head at a BNP meeting in Salford. Griffin no longer even cares who he is seen or associated with, hence the recent love-in with Hungarian nasty party Jobbik and the violent Nazi thugs of Greece’s Golden Dawn party.

As well as calling people (in this case Jewish people) liars, the trick has always been to also portray them with a horrible caricature, as has been done on the front cover of “The Protocols..”

Yesterday, the BNP produced a story about Griffin’s criminal mates, the neo-Nazi Golden Dawn party from Greece. “Golden Dawn Leader Nikos Michaloliakos arrested on the orders of international Zionists” says the BNP’s website. For Nazis, and Islamists, the word “Zionist” is often used when really they just mean Jews. It allows them to get away with conflating the two and confusing many people into thinking it is an acceptable way to attack Jewish people. In this particular story, surprise, surprise, there’s actually no proven Zionist or Jewish influence at all. Just a suggestion that in fact, Golden Dawn are a shoddy, violent organisation.

In the cartoon that appears with the article on the BNP website, check out the menacing shadow of the hooked nosed individual in the background. Sinister, eh? Jewish, probably…




From Anti Fascists Online . 25.01.14. Report by John P. 25.01.14.
Liveraf Comment. Actually to us at Liveraf the character in the cartoon looks more like Max Schreck doing his famous vampire act in the German 1922 silent film classic, Nosferatu, eine Symphonie des Grauens. Which is probably understandable considering the number of undead which the BNP must have among its ranks. Come to think of it, that might be where they got all that stuff about Blood and Honour. Well, blood anyway. Are you warm enough inside that coffin Nick?

[American Dream]

there are a lot of people out there who are racist, vile anti-Semites, who are using this conflict as a chance to hate Jews.

In particular, there are a lot of people out there who admire Hitler, and call for his glorious return.

It’s almost like some kind of weird fetish.

I will name and shame a few here.

http://jidmpol.wordpress.com/2014/07/13 ... rwasright/

[seemslikeadream]

understand this

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/19/ai ... -judgment/
This is key, folks: they’re NAZIS! They’re not neo-Nazis, they’re actual, real thing, never dismantled after WWII genuine NAZIS, and our government is supporting them.

[coffin_dodger]

AD, as you're the resident expert on RI, I'd be grateful if you could give me your thoughts as to why anti-semetism still exists so virulently.
I'm more interested in cause than effect.

[jakell]

The above article (from Liverpool AF) shows the poor focus of our own anti-fascists. Going on about the BNP's output at this stage shows that they haven't moved on since the BNP's heydey (approx 4 years ago), and probably never will. They really need to focus on the more shadowy adherents of American white Nationalism, which is where the core lies.

It's understandable that those on the international scene will not appreciate these more local issues, especially with the utterly careless smörgåsbord presented in these threads. if I was attempting to sow confusion and distraction, this is the sort of thing I'd do.