Zionism’s Lost Shine

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Zionism’s Lost Shine

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:33 am

Latest Gallup poll shows young Americans overwhelmingly support Palestine
Sunday, 03 August 2014 14:03
Image
Protestors at Washington DCProtestors at Washington DCIMAGES

Large demonstrations against Israel's assault on Palestinians in Gaza were staged across the US on Saturday. The public outpouring of support for Palestinians in US streets suggests that Washington's pro-Israel policies are becoming increasingly unpopular, a trend supported by a recent poll on Israel's latest aggression, which finds that young Americans are twice as likely to support Palestinian rights than Israeli occupation.

Tens of thousands of Americans held a demonstration in front of the White House in Washington, DC. Protestors travelled in buses from around the country to join the national rally, waving Palestinian flags and chanting "free Palestine" in the US capital.

On the other side of the country, thousands of Americans staged a protest in Austin, Texas while a plane flew in the skies with the message "save Gaza free Palestine".

And hundreds of people also joined a march in Los Angeles, California the same day, closing down one of the city's busiest boulevards to demand an end to Israel's war crimes.

In recent years, the solidarity movement in the US has been revitalised by student activists. While a 22-23 July Gallup poll found that a slight majority of Americans believe that Israel's latest assault on Gaza is justified, a pro-Israel bias that also dominated during the second intifada, amongst those under the age of 30, more than twice as many Americans say that Israel's aggression in Gaza is unjustified (51 per cent) than those who say it is justified (25 per cent). The same holds true for people of colour (49 per cent versus 25 per cent).

Both the popular demonstrations and the poll results seem to indicate that support for Israel is growing weaker amongst the next generation of American leaders.

Images below are from protests in Austin (Texas), Los Angeles (California) and Washington DC.
Image
Image
Image
Image

Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Zionism’s Lost Shine

Postby stefano » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:42 am

Lady Warsi resigns over UK’s ‘morally indefensible’ stance on Gaza

Foreign Office minister announces on Twitter that she is standing down because she can no longer support government policy

Sayeeda Warsi, the senior Foreign Office minister, has resigned from the government in protest at its policy on Gaza, describing it as “morally indefensible”.

Lady Warsi announced her departure on Twitter on Tuesday, saying: “With deep regret I have this morning written to the Prime Minister & tendered my resignation. I can no longer support Govt policy on #Gaza.”

In her resignation letter, Warsi said the government’s “approach and language during the current crisis in Gaza is morally indefensible, is not in Britain’s national interest and will have a long term detrimental impact on our reputation internationally and domestically”.

She said the UK’s stance was “not consistent with the rule of law and our long support for international justice”, adding: “The British government can only play a constructive role in solving the Middle East crisis if it is an honest broker and at the moment I do not think it is.”

The chancellor, George Osborne, hit back immediately, saying her decision was unnecessary and insisting that ministers were committed to working to secure peace in the region. “This a disappointing and frankly unnecessary decision,” he said. “The British government is working with others in the world to bring peace to Gaza and we do now have a tentative ceasefire which we all hope will hold.”

David Cameron was more emollient, writing in his reply to Warsi’s letter that he realised “this must not have been an easy decision for you to make”, and adding: “I understand your strength of feeling on the current crisis in the Middle East – the situation in Gaza is intolerable.”

The prime minister said the government’s position on Israel and the Palestinians was clear: “Our policy has always been consistently clear: we support a negotiated two-state solution as the only way to resolve this conflict once and for all and to allow Israelis and Palestinians to live safely in peace. “Of course, we believe that Israel has the right to defend itself. But we have consistently made clear our grave concerns about the heavy toll of civilian casualties and have called on Israel to exercise restraint, and to find ways to bring this fighting to an end. As part of that, we have consistently called for an immediate and unconditional humanitarian ceasefire.”

Ed Miliband said Warsi had acted with “principle and integrity” and he urged Cameron to re-think his position. “I hope that David Cameron will reflect on what she says in her resignation letter and change his approach,” he told BBC News. “He needs to break his silence and say that Israel’s actions have been unjustified and indefensible. He needs to show that he can be even-handed and, without fear or favour, argue for the long-term solution that we need to this tragic conflict.”

In an interview with the Huffington Post, Warsi said: “Our position not to recognise Palestinian statehood at the UN in November 2012 placed us on the wrong side of history and is something I deeply regret not speaking out against at the time.”

The Tory peer said that, having now stood down, she wanted to “speak more freely” on the issue and her first demand after handing in her resignation letter was for the UK to introduce an arms embargo against Israel. “It appals me that the British government continues to allow the sale of weapons to a country, Israel, that has killed almost 2,000 people, including hundreds of kids, in the past four weeks alone. The arms exports to Israel must stop.”

n a further interview with Channel 4 News, Warsi suggested Cameron had been “mealy-mouthed” over his refusal to say Israel’s actions had been disproportionate.

“I think for me, it’s morally indefensible where after four weeks of a conflict – more than a quarter of the Gazan population displaced, nearly 2,000 people killed, nearly 400 innocent children killed – we still cannot find the words to say we condemn this and we feel this action has been disproportionate. These issues are far too serious for us to have been mealy-mouthed and for us to be dragging our heels.”

Warsi was known to have been unhappy with Cameron’s failure to unequivocally condemn Israel’s incursion into Gaza or the mounting death toll. On Monday, the prime minister’s spokesman refused to say if Israel was behaving disproportionately or doing enough to prevent civilian casualties. Warsi has been increasingly critical of Israel’s behaviour. She recently tweeted: “Can people stop trying to justify the killing of children. Whatever our politics there can never be justification, surely only regret.”

Following criticism about the timing of her resignation – on the 29th day of the conflict and after a ceasefire had been announced – Warsi spoke to the BBC to say: “Over the last four weeks, I have done everything that I can both at formal meetings and informal meetings trying to convince my colleagues that our current policy on Gaza is morally indefensible, that it’s not in our interests, it’s not in British interests and that it will have consequences for us both internationally and here at home.

“In the end, for us I felt the government’s position was not moving and therefore I had to on a point of principle resign.”

Warsi became the first Muslim to sit in the cabinet when she was made Conservative party co-chair by Cameron after the 2010 general election. She was subsequently moved to the post of minister of state at the Foreign Office and minister for faith and communities in the prime minister’s 2012 reshuffle – a move widely regarded as a demotion.


A bit more at the link - Nick Clegg seems to be struggling as his conscience and ambition (and perceptions of what loyalty and patriotism?) fight it out in his head.

Image
User avatar
stefano
 
Posts: 2672
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:50 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Zionism’s Lost Shine

Postby 8bitagent » Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:09 am

I am so fucking sick, at my wits end of hearing this god damn bullshit "anti semitic" charge/ what god damn fucking anti semitism? Its US/Saudi/NWO backed Israel mass murdering innocent imprisoned Muslims. What's hard to figure out? People who talk about anti semitism this, holocaust denial that are fucking idiots. Im a 100% Jewlover, as I am an Arab lover or human lover but right is right, and what *is* going on is not right at all
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Zionism’s Lost Shine

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:04 am

Image
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
User avatar
MacCruiskeen
 
Posts: 10558
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:47 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Zionism’s Lost Shine

Postby smiths » Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:05 pm

this trend is shocking and very worrying, i can hardly believe its possible after everything that has happened in the last century

but anyone who tries to tell me its not connected to the actions of the Israeli state is either dishonest or stupid



Antisemitism on rise across Europe 'in worst times since the Nazis'
Across Europe, the conflict in Gaza is breathing new life into some very old, and very ugly, demons. This is not unusual; police and Jewish civil rights organisations have long observed a noticeable spike in antisemitic incidents each time the Israeli-Palestinian conflict flares. During the three weeks of Israel's Operation Cast Lead in late 2008 and early 2009, France recorded 66 antisemitic incidents, including attacks on Jewish-owned restaurants and synagogues and a sharp increase in anti-Jewish graffiti.
But according to academics and Jewish leaders, this time it is different. More than simply a reaction to the conflict, they say, the threats, hate speech and violent attacks feel like the expression of a much deeper and more widespread antisemitism, fuelled by a wide range of factors, that has been growing now for more than a decade.

Studies suggest antisemitism may indeed be mounting. A 2012 survey by the EU's by the Fundamental Rights agency of some 6,000 Jews in eight European countries – between them, home to 90% of Europe's Jewish population – found 66% of respondents felt antisemitism in Europe was on the rise; 76% said antisemitism had increased in their country over the past five years. In the 12 months after the survey, nearly half said they worried about being verbally insulted or attacked in public because they were Jewish.

Jewish organisations that record antisemitic incidents say the trend is inexorable: France's Society for the Protection of the Jewish Community says annual totals of antisemitic acts in the 2000s are seven times higher than in the 1990s. French Jews are leaving for Israel in greater numbers, too, for reasons they say include antisemitism and the electoral success of the hard-right Front National. The Jewish Agency for Israel said 1,407 French Jews left for Israel in 2013, a 72% rise on the previous year. Between January and May this year, 2,250 left, against 580 in the same period last year.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... ince-nazis
the question is why, who, why, what, why, when, why and why again?
User avatar
smiths
 
Posts: 2205
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 4:18 am
Location: perth, western australia
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Zionism’s Lost Shine

Postby solace » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:07 pm

"but anyone who tries to tell me its not connected to the actions of the Israeli state is either dishonest or stupid"

Classic blame the victim. More likely, rascist opportunism.
solace
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 11:38 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Zionism’s Lost Shine

Postby coffin_dodger » Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:26 am

Victim mentality

Victim mentality is an acquired (learned) personality trait in which a person tends to regard him or herself as a victim of the negative actions of others, and to think, speak and act as if that were the case - even in the absence of clear evidence. It depends on habitual thought processes and attribution.

Victim mentality is primarily learned, for example, from family members and situations during childhood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_mentality
User avatar
coffin_dodger
 
Posts: 2216
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:05 am
Location: UK
Blog: View Blog (14)

Re: Zionism’s Lost Shine

Postby solace » Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:32 am

coffin_dodger » Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:26 am wrote:Victim mentality

Victim mentality is an acquired (learned) personality trait in which a person tends to regard him or herself as a victim of the negative actions of others, and to think, speak and act as if that were the case - even in the absence of clear evidence. It depends on habitual thought processes and attribution.

Victim mentality is primarily learned, for example, from family members and situations during childhood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_mentality


Are you suggesting that people who are the object of racism/hate/antisemitism are really just experiencing "victim mentality?" If not, why the fuck did you post that? No wonder cats like bluenoseclaret get such a pass here on RI.

edit: Or perhaps you are saying only Jews are carrying on like pussified victims? That it?
solace
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 11:38 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Zionism’s Lost Shine

Postby coffin_dodger » Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:23 am

I find your attack-dog mentality frightening, Solace - but I'll be brave and perhaps you can help me understand it.

Yes, I see signs that anti-semetism is on the rise. I visit other boards and blogs and have noticed a rising tone of aggression towards Jews in some quarters. It's not a nice spectacle, but it exists. Just to clarify my position before I continue - I see each and every one of us in the Western World as culpable for the actions our respective leaders make - us 'nice' people leave the nasty stuff (primarily securing energy and resources - so we can have tap water, electricity, heat, cars etc) to the 'less nice' people - who are then rewarded with 'elite' status for their efforts. I do not think the Jews are the 'elite' or that it's all an illuminati plot - it's far simpler, as above.

But you are so aggressive.

As another example of the attack-dog mentality - I read RuneSoup regularly and Gordon recently posted a piece cristicising (amongst many other things) Isreali actions in Gaza. Immediately he was called an anti-semite by a commenter. I've been reading RuneSoup for a while now and had never imagined it to be an anti-semetic site. And I still don't.

Considering the atrocities that humanity has inflicted upon each other over the centuries, including those of my own forefathers (I'm English), I think some people struggle to understand (myself included) why there is still such ill-feeling towards the Jews when they suffered so terribly in the last century. I am genuinely at a loss to understand it, because I live in an interracial society where there is very little racial hatred and violence (that I see - compared to a couple of generations ago) and yet, there stubbornly exists a fear of the Jews, as witnessed by the rising talk of anti-semetism.

I wondered if the victim mentality (coupled with the opposing aggressiveness) as displayed in your previous post, could be playing a part in this.
User avatar
coffin_dodger
 
Posts: 2216
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:05 am
Location: UK
Blog: View Blog (14)

Re: Zionism’s Lost Shine

Postby solace » Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:57 am

coffin_dodger » Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:23 am wrote:I find your attack-dog mentality frightening, Solace - but I'll be brave and perhaps you can help me understand it.

Yes, I see signs that anti-semetism is on the rise. I visit other boards and blogs and have noticed a rising tone of aggression towards Jews in some quarters. It's not a nice spectacle, but it exists. Just to clarify my position before I continue - I see each and every one of us in the Western World as culpable for the actions our respective leaders make - us 'nice' people leave the nasty stuff (primarily securing energy and resources - so we can have tap water, electricity, heat, cars etc) to the 'less nice' people - who are then rewarded with 'elite' status for their efforts. I do not think the Jews are the 'elite' or that it's all an illuminati plot - it's far simpler, as above.

But you are so aggressive.

As another example of the attack-dog mentality - I read RuneSoup regularly and Gordon recently posted a piece cristicising (amongst many other things) Isreali actions in Gaza. Immediately he was called an anti-semite by a commenter. I've been reading RuneSoup for a while now and had never imagined it to be an anti-semetic site. And I still don't.

Considering the atrocities that humanity has inflicted upon each other over the centuries, including those of my own forefathers (I'm English), I think some people struggle to understand (myself included) why there is still such ill-feeling towards the Jews when they suffered so terribly in the last century. I am genuinely at a loss to understand it, because I live in an interracial society where there is very little racial hatred and violence (that I see - compared to a couple of generations ago) and yet, there stubbornly exists a fear of the Jews, as witnessed by the rising talk of anti-semetism.

I wondered if the victim mentality (coupled with the opposing aggressiveness) as displayed in your previous post, could be playing a part in this.


Aggressive Jews? Ah, I see. Woof woof.
solace
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 11:38 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Zionism’s Lost Shine

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:11 am

Maybe generalizing about the attributes of categories whilst pretending you're positing opinions about people is not the most effective way to ruminate on the question of Zionism.

Woof woof and quack quack -- but this seems more like fumbling with category error than crypto-anti-semitism.

If I may be so offensive, I think both sides are wholly correct: the rise in Anti-Semitism is related to the actions of the Israeli state, and also related to the fact that Anti-Semitism is a widespread prejudice that has always existed, especially in Europe and the Arabic world. An unfortunate overlap of some very large demographic Venn diagrams.
User avatar
Wombaticus Rex
 
Posts: 10896
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:33 pm
Location: Vermontistan
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Zionism’s Lost Shine

Postby coffin_dodger » Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:52 am

Best of luck with your social skills, Solace.

I'm having nothing to do with this minefield any more.
User avatar
coffin_dodger
 
Posts: 2216
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:05 am
Location: UK
Blog: View Blog (14)

Re: Zionism’s Lost Shine

Postby stefano » Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:11 pm

Of course anti-Semitism is related to Israel's actions. Especially among Muslims. And it's being exacerbated by the increasing support for the occupation that's become apparent among French Jews, or rather on the part of the organisations that supposedly represent them, most notably the CRIF (all Israel, all the time). And which is apparent in the French government's attitude: support for Israel very much at odds with the feelings of the French on the subject.

The anti-Semitism of the white French is a bit different, more related to the weird psychosis of American conservatives. They're anti-Jews, as well as anti-Muslim, anti-black and anti-gay. These are the minorities they blame for what they see as France's decline, but which is really the decline of old money Catholic families and the industrial working class in the French power structure. That's the Front National's bread and butter.
User avatar
stefano
 
Posts: 2672
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:50 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Zionism’s Lost Shine

Postby solace » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:18 pm

Haters always have reasons for their hate. Many Jew haters use Israel's actions as their excuse. That was really my only point. That and perhaps the hope that others don't affirm that excuse thereby giving those haters' excuse some kind of legitimacy.
solace
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 11:38 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Zionism’s Lost Shine

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:00 pm

smiths » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:05 pm wrote:this trend is shocking and very worrying, i can hardly believe its possible after everything that has happened in the last century

...

Antisemitism on rise across Europe 'in worst times since the Nazis'

[...]

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... ince-nazis


At least as far as Germany is concerned, the Guardian's headline is hysterical scaremongering. Shameful stuff, and desperately misleading, but wholly in keeping with the rest of its coverage of the (latest) Gaza massacre.

smiths wrote:but anyone who tries to tell me its not connected to the actions of the Israeli state is either dishonest or stupid


Quite right. And much more likely dishonest than stupid.

This "worst times since the Nazis" bullshit is a direct quote from Dieter Graumann, who only last month wrote a disgraceful, warmongering article -- defending and encouraging the massacre in Gaza before it had even started -- in the Süddeutsche Zeitung:

Israel muss sich wehren. Israel muss sich schützen. Israel muss weiter als Leuchtturm von Freiheit, Gleichberechtigung und Demokratie im Nahen Osten überleben als Verteidiger unserer westlichen Werte.

[...]

Unsere Werte werden auch in Israel verteidigt. Daher sollten wir Israel mehr denn je in diesen schweren Stunden zur Seite stehen, solidarisch und aus vollem Herzen. Damit es irgendwann nicht mehr ist als ein Probealarm, wenn in Israel die Sirenen heulen. So, wie am Samstag in Köln.

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/naho ... -1.2047228


Who is conflating "Israel" and "the Jews" there? Who is equating opposition to a forthcoming massacre with anti-Semitism? Dieter Graumann, Chairman of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, that's who.

Experts say attacks go beyond Israel-Palestinian conflict

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... ince-nazis


Scareee... But what "experts" would they be? Graumann? The ADL? That kind of "expert"? Yes indeed.

In a study completed in February, America's Anti-Defamation League surveyed 332,000 Europeans ...

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... ince-nazis


Same "study" touted by the NYT back in May:

‘NYT’ publishes unvarnished ADL propaganda: 93% of Palestinians are anti-Semites

Philip Weiss on May 15, 2014

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/05/unvarnish ... nians.html


It's always advisable to check sources whenever the mainstream media claim to be citing "experts".
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
User avatar
MacCruiskeen
 
Posts: 10558
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:47 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests