How Bad Is Global Warming?

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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:22 pm

Slim, perhaps you will explain for us how the independent scientists lost their minds to a secret cabal you call the PTB. I find your comment unsubstantial nonsense.

Seriously, how did the PTB manage to brainwash tens of thousands of researchers from all around the world from a gazillion different research areas? C'mon, slim, support your ridiculous claim with some evidence; any evidence at all.

It's quite bizarre to find posters here believe every single individual gathering information about our world involved in the IPCC, no matter how tangentially their involvement, receives their funding from their governments.

Gee, BPH, you, like me, must have missed Ben's six year long condemnation of worldwide military spending.

What percentage of the Aussie budget goes to military, Ben? Maybe What's up with Watt has the answer; after all, he is a weatherman.

One edit: slim, Here's the question, once again:
What's the downside of preparing for a calamity that never happens compared to never having prepared for a calamity that does happen?
Your "answer" to this question,
The PTB through proxies such as the taxpayer funded IPPC and all the rest of these clearly corrupted organisations. are blaming humans for climate change.

Its the only fucking way to pay their corrupt ass bills.


Sorry, slim, but this is far too ignorant a comment and it is not an answer to the question asked. The scientists are not funded by the IPCC and the IPCC has no power to enact any tax anywhere whatsoever.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:42 pm

I believe the answer to the question in the subheading is an unequivocal yes!

Global Climate Deal May Fail to Restrain Global Warming

The pending Paris climate deal may not keep the world from warming by 2 degrees Celsius—does that mean it would be a failure?

Aug 21, 2014 |By Lisa Friedman and ClimateWire

A growing number of leaders are openly acknowledging that a 2015 international agreement to avert catastrophic global warming will surely fall short of what's needed to achieve that goal.

But another consensus is also forming among top U.S. experts: that shortfall is OK, as long as the deal puts all major climate polluters on a serious, upward and transparent path to cutting greenhouse gases.

"The big question the public is going to ask is: Are all the major emitters participating? And are they doing enough to help solve this challenge?'" said Peter Ogden, director of international climate and energy policy at the Center for American Progress and a former chief of staff to U.S. Special Envoy for Climate Change Todd Stern.

The new agreement to be signed in Paris, to take effect in 2020, will essentially replace the 1997 Kyoto Protocol. Unlike Kyoto, the Paris deal will demand action from everyone, and not just from wealthy industrialized countries. But in order to make that palatable for governments, negotiators are moving away from a traditional top-down approach in which scientists dictate what is needed to save the planet and countries are allotted targets accordingly.

Instead, consensus has built around a more voluntary approach in which governments figure out how much they can cut and offer it up as a pledge. Those "intended nationally determined contributions" are due early next year.

In interviews with former negotiators and longtime observers of the U.N. climate negotiations, not one person expressed confidence that the sum of countries' targets will be enough to keep rising global temperatures below the internationally agreed 2-degree-Celsius "guardrail" between dangerous and extremely dangerous warming.

"If that were the case, it would be a stunning surprise. I don't think anyone expects that," said Joy Hyvarien, executive director of the U.K.-based Foundation for International Law and Development (FIELD).

Recently, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology used a sophisticated climate model to come to the same result.

Studies show a continuing emissions rise
In a report, "Expectations for a New Climate Agreement," researchers reviewed the likely pledges and found that instead of greenhouse gas emissions scaling back dramatically, they would actually result in levels of carbon dioxide equivalent in the atmosphere exceeding 580 parts per million by the end of the century.

"At least in what's likely to be agreed in [Paris], it won't put us on the path that the IPCC [Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change] says is consistent with the 2-degree target. It's going to bend the curve; we believe that. But it's not going to bend the curve enough to meet with what the IPCC says is required," said Henry Jacoby, lead author of the study.

Jacoby argued that reality is something that needs to be acknowledged by leaders openly, well before the Paris meeting.

"It doesn't seem to us that we're having the conversation we should be having. We should be more openly talking about what countries are going to be willing to do, and more open about what the structure of the agreement is going to be. This is all not known yet," he said.

"If it becomes generally recognized that this round of negotiations is not likely to put us on the path [to 2 degrees], what happens then? We treat this as if this negotiation was going to complete something, and it's one step in a very long process," he added.

Several ideas already are being floated to help bridge the gap between what countries are likely to deliver and what scientists say is actually needed to steer the planet to safety.

In a recent blog post, Hyvarinen of FIELD advocated that diplomats carve out a special additional category open only to countries that put forward ambitious targets.

Giving gold stars, and possibly some type of special benefits to the best actors, she said, "could help counter the weakness of a bottom-up agreement." She like many other analysts also argued for a strong review mechanism that would allow countries to strengthen their targets over time.

But can a Paris deal that does not keep temperatures below 2 degrees still be considered a success?

Harvard University economist Robert Stavins says yes. Even if the sum of emissions cuts countries offer is insufficient to attain the 2 degree goal, he argues, it would still be a monumental step to have all major polluters on board for a new deal.

Wanted: a foundation for an effective solution
"What I anticipate coming out of this is that we will have an agreement in 2015 that will have the right foundation, the right set of countries participating ... and we will begin to build the foundation that we ought to have begun to build at the time of Kyoto," he said. "I think what's important is the right foundation for moving forward, as opposed to the actual numbers that are in the agreement."

Nigel Purvis, a lead U.S. climate negotiator in the Clinton administration and now CEO of the consultancy group Climate Advisers, said there is "no chance" the Paris targets will be consistent with the 2-degree goal. But like Stavins, he said that getting the new agreement right will ultimately be more important than the initial targets.

"It would be a major step forward for there to be an agreement where all countries were committing to taking action and where there was clarity about how we would know they were on track to do what they promised," Purvis said. That, along with a mechanism to enable countries to increase their ambition, he said, "would be a significant step beyond Kyoto and beyond Copenhagen."

Environmental groups have not been as sanguine about the prospects of a treaty that falls short of 2 degrees.

"If the numbers don't add up, it's not a political failure only. It's a physical failure," said Wael Hmaidan, director of Climate Action Network (CAN) International, told ClimateWire earlier this year. "If you want to get to New York and you only get to New Jersey, you failed, right?" (ClimateWire, Jan. 14).

Others, though, argued that the Paris deal cannot afford to be weighed down with outsized expectations like those for the 2009 summit in Copenhagen, Denmark, where diplomats tried and failed to produce a new treaty. The deal in 2015 will be a big deal, they argued, but not the final solution to global warming.

Said Ogden, "To meet the credibility test, we must show a meaningful deviation from the catastrophic course that we had been on, and continue to bend that emissions curve. It will not be the final word, but it will be the absolutely critical next step, knowing that there will have to be steps after that."
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:24 pm

slimmouse » Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:52 am wrote:OK Ben, I'll answer the unanswered.

The PTB through proxies such as the taxpayer funded IPPC and all the rest of these clearly corrupted organisations. are blaming humans for climate change.

Its the only fucking way to pay their corrupt ass bills.

Whcih is not to say that the climate isnt changing or that we shouldnt stop raping the planet- the sooner the better.

Yeah Slim. that's about right...I would just add that there is a Malthusian agenda involved in this scheme....these are truly the most badass human creatures this planet has ever produced!
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby DrEvil » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:31 pm

slimmouse » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:52 pm wrote:OK Ben, I'll answer the unanswered.

The PTB through proxies such as the taxpayer funded IPPC and all the rest of these clearly corrupted organisations. are blaming humans for climate change.

Its the only fucking way to pay their corrupt ass bills.

Whcih is not to say that the climate isnt changing or that we shouldnt stop raping the planet- the sooner the better.


The IPCC has a budget of 10 million Swiss Francs, which is roughly 11 million dollars. It's a drop in the ocean. Most big energy CEOs make more than that in a year.
(pdf: http://www.ipcc.ch/apps/eventmanager/do ... budget.pdf).

Big oil, on the other hand, have already spent over 60 million on lobbying this year alone. Last year they spent 140 million.
https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/indus ... php?id=E01

And the IPCC doesn't do any science. They summarize what thousands of scientists who voluntarily contribute (with no pay) have found through their research.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:15 am

^ Quite so DrEvil....the UN IPCC is tasked with the responsibility to provide the evidence that global warming is predominately caused by humans. As a result of the IPCC's AGW evidence, the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change guides international treaty talks about financial support for mitigation efforts. So how much money is up for grabs for clean energy companies (..and naturally big oil have got on the bandwagon) and other mitigation efforts?

So here was the state of play as of 2012....

Global Climate-Change Finance Fell Last Year, Study Shows

Spending from governments and companies on renewable energy and other mitigation measures declined to $359 billion in 2012 from $364 billion a year earlier, according to the study by the Climate Policy Initiative, a San Francisco-based analysis firm.
-
“Investment to combat and adapt to climate change is happening around the world, but it’s short of where it needs to be and efforts to grow it have not been successful enough,” Climate Policy Initiative Executive Director Thomas Heller said in an e-mailed statement.

The IEA said last year that $5 trillion is needed through 2020 to moderate temperature gains since industrialization to 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 Fahrenheit), a UN target. That’s on top of a projected $19 trillion of spending by the energy industry in a business-as-usual scenario, and is equivalent to an extra $625 billion a year for eight years.

The money includes $337 billion directed at efforts to lower emissions and $22 billion for projects to help adapt to the effects of a warmer planet, according to the study. More than half the funds -- $182 billion -- were spent in developing countries, while 76 percent of all spending was domestic.

About $224 billion of the spending was by non-state corporations and the rest was from governments. The researchers didn’t include any financing by companies for adaptation measures, citing “data limitations.”

The researchers said $39 billion to $62 billion of spending was from industrialized nations to developing countries. That estimate shouldn’t be compared with a separate pledge by richer nations to channel $100 billion a year in climate aid to poorer countries by 2020, the authors said.

Christiana Figueres, executive secretary of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change, which guides international treaty talks, said yesterday that the next round of talks that start in Warsaw on Nov. 11 must clarify where the $100 billion will come from. The Green Climate Fund set up by envoys to channel some of that money will be ready for an initial capital raising in the first half of next year, she said.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby DrEvil » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:08 am

You forgot to bold this part :

That’s on top of a projected $19 trillion of spending by the energy industry in a business-as-usual scenario
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:29 am

^ the 19 trillion bit was not relevant to the $625 billion which I bolded because over 8 years between now and 2020, it adds up to the $5 trillion I initially bolded...you should pay more attention to details! Apart from that....I have no problem with your bringing attention to the $19 trillion business as usual part, it's generally interesting as is most of the global climate financial planning info revealed in that article.

Btw, those envoys of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change who set up the Green Climate Fund will have a ball dispensing that $100 billion per year to poorer countries in climate aid doncha think?

Think about it....how many of those poorer countries the Green Climate Fund will help out....let's say for example there are a 150 countries out of the total of 192 actual countries in the UN that are eligible for global warming aid...that works out at $666 million each!!! So how many votes in the UN can the UN count on as voting for the IPCC AGW malthusian agenda....all of them....that's what UN IPCC/UN Framework Convention on Climate Change systemic corruption is all about!
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby DrEvil » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:47 am

Aah! Now I get it. $666 million dollars(!!!). Obviously the UN is Satan.

But seriously - do you have any proof of what you're claiming? Poor countries get money from the UN, so the whole system is corrupt?

Btw - the Malthusian agenda here is being pushed by you. The whole point of going green and sustainable is to avoid a Malthusian catastrophe.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:35 pm

DrEvil » Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:47 am wrote:Aah! Now I get it. $666 million dollars(!!!). Obviously the UN is Satan.

But seriously - do you have any proof of what you're claiming? Poor countries get money from the UN, so the whole system is corrupt?

Btw - the Malthusian agenda here is being pushed by you. The whole point of going green and sustainable is to avoid a Malthusian catastrophe.

Corruption is anticipated DrEvil.....and yes...Greed and corruption at the UN is real!
http://archive.transparency.org/news_room/in_focus/2011/gcr_climate_change

Image

The impacts of climate change will be felt all over the world, in developed and developing countries alike. At risk are billions of dollars but more importantly the lives and livelihoods of millions of people. Corruption cannot be allowed to jeopardise efforts to combat climate change.

Image

Many of those countries judged most vulnerable to the most visible effects of climate change– drought, flooding, storms or rising sea levels – are also countries where experts perceive high levels of corruption in public services. None of the 20 countries deemed most vulnerable to climate change score more than 3.6 on TI’s Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI) indicating significant risks of corruption.

Like corruption, climate change is a global problem that demands a global solution. Meeting this challenge will require unprecedented international cooperation both in the developed and developing world.

Transparency International’s Global Corruption Report: Climate Change explores climate-related corruption risks and argues that a dramatic strengthening of governance mechanisms can reduce corruption risks and make climate change policy more effective and more successful.

Governments have pledged at least US $100 billion per year by 2020 to be spent on projects and incentives to meet commitments to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and safeguard against the effects of climate change.

How well this money is used and how these measures are managed will determine the effectiveness of global efforts to combat climate change. With so much at stake, it is imperative that all actors involved – governments, civil society, and the private sector – build transparency and accountability into the system from the start.



And good for you that you are against a Malthusian agenda....but I really don't see how you come to think of me as pushing it....are you implying I'm fascist?
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby DrEvil » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:45 pm

Yes, obviously there's greed and corruption in the UN. They have 44000 employees, most of them on the ground in various shit-holes around the globe, and many of them from countries where corruption is the norm. Of course some of them are corrupt, that doesn't mean the entire organization is.
I would be more worried if there was no corruption at all.

And yes, obviously some of that $100 billion (if it ever actually materializes. Countries have pledged $100 billion per year by 2020. Doesn't mean they will actually follow through (they usually don't)), will most likely end up in the wrong pocket. But what are we supposed to do about it? Tell people in poor countries that, sorry, your government is corrupt, so just piss off and die? Or maybe just try to minimize the losses and accept that there will be some greedy fucks involved?

As long as there are humans in the loop there will be rotten eggs. Simple as that. It's human nature.

I think you're pushing a Malthusian agenda because that's where we're headed if (for lack of a better word) the deniers get to be in the driver's seat.

And no, I don't think you're a fascist. I've called you a lot of things, but I'm pretty sure I never said fascist. :basicsmile
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:39 pm

I think you're pushing a Malthusian agenda because that's where we're headed if (for lack of a better word) the deniers get to be in the driver's seat.

I don't know what sort of logic you are using...but it's fuzzy. A Malthusian agenda is one associated with the intention to depopulate the planet....why do you link my skepticism of the belief that humans are the predominant cause of climate change, with someone who has the intention to reduce the planet's human population?
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:58 pm

Ben wrote,
I would just add that there is a Malthusian agenda involved in this scheme....these are truly the most badass human creatures this planet has ever produced!

Malthusian doesn't even come close to describing what these evil badass human creatures are doing.

Feels worth repeating...
I see you and those of your school of thought who push the 'it's all a hoax so loyal lying scientists can get grants' as victims fooled by your prejudices and the messaging of corporations destroying the Earth's ecosystem and I feel no differently about them than I would invading shape-shifting lizard aliens intent on ending all life on Earth.

If that wasn't clear enough, more frankly, whether those denying global warming and its likely ramifications are doing so through ignorance or knowing, paid intent, I see all as extremely dangerous to my great-grandchildren's well-being and other living things.

Free will, free market exertion, while we choke and die from cancers rare or common, blood diseases, and more with increasing numbers of pregnancies not being carried successfully to term, infant and child premature development. Every woman of childbearing age has enough mercury in her body to cause fetal damage and every baby born today is born with its tiny body already burdened with more than 200 man made chemicals that are proven to have deleterious effects upon human health and longevity.

Every day that passes, thousands of acres worldwide are deforested, ever diminishing the chance the lungs of the earth will again respire adequately enough to function as they have for thousands of years, helping to keep our ecosystem in a natural balance.
Like a terrarium, with smokestacks.

Denialist arguments only serve those who benefit from harming us and our children for profit.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby fruhmenschen » Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:38 pm

see link for full story


By: Christopher C. Burt , 7:46 PM GMT on August 22, 2014


http://www.wunderground.com/blog/weathe ... trynum=298

Heavy Rainfall Trends

Yet another phenomenally intense rainfall event has occurred in the U.S. this morning (August 22nd) when 3.95” of rain in one hour was measured by a COOP observer at a site 3 miles southwest of Chicago’s Midway Airport. The return period for such at Midway Airport (according to NOAA’s ‘Precipitation Frequency Data Server’) is once in 500 years. This is similar to the Baltimore, Detroit, and Islip, New York events last week (although the Islip event was probably more in the range of once in a 1000 years). Brian Brettschneider of Borealis Scientific LLC has kindly offered this guest blog today featuring research he has done on heavy rainfall trends for 207 sites across the U.S. for a homogenous POR of 1949-2013.

BRIAN BRETTSCHNEIDER’S REPORT: Heavy Rainfall Trends

Significant research has been conducted in recent years regarding changes in precipitation amounts and patterns in a warming climate. From a theoretical perspective, warmer air holds more moisture so increases in temperature should lead to increases in precipitation. On the flip side, increased temperatures may dry out soils and lakes (sources of moisture), cause air currents to change, or lead to other situations that counter-balance the increase in atmospheric moisture.

A chapter from the recently released National Climate Assessment discusses the trends in long-term heavy precipitation events for the entire U.S. during the last century. In particular, they note how the proportion of annual precipitation from extreme events has increased since the 1950's. The map below shows Figure 2.18 from that report. The map shows that large increases in very heavy precipitation events have been observed in the eastern half of the country.



Figure 1. Map from National Climate Assessment (Figure 2.18) showing the observed change in heavy precipitation events.

I am interested in knowing how the rate of heavy precipitation events has changed at smaller geographical scales. Therefore, I decided to look at all airport stations in the U.S. that have a continuous record dating back multiple decades. In this instance, a beginning point of 1949 was chosen because 207 stations have complete precipitation records between 1949 and 2013 (additional stations with 1 or 2 missing months during the same time period will be added at a future date). Here is a list of the stations used in the survey. This is also a long enough period of time to smooth out increases or decreases due to cyclical climate oscillations with short (<10 year) periods. Cooperative stations were excluded since the time of observation is not consistent from one station to the next and in some cases it changes intra-annually at single stations. Therefore, only airport stations with midnight-to-midnight reporting times were used.

The 207 stations are nicely distributed geographically with a slightly higher density east of the Rocky Mountains and a lower density west of the Rocky Mountain Front Range. The following map (Figure 2) shows the distribution of stations.




Figure 2. Locations of airport stations with complete precipitation data from 1949-2013. A total of 207 stations met the criteria.

For the purpose of this analysis, we are not studying the temporal spread of singular heavy rain events – just the frequency of high precipitation events. In fact, the year with the highest precipitation event for the 1949-2013 time period at each station is not statistically significant when grouping the years into eight categories. Figure 3 shows the year range of the highest calendar-day precipitation event for each of the 207 stations. There is a slight tendency for the records to be more frequent in recent years but the significance level (p-value) is only 0.15 and is therefore not significant at the 95% or 90% level. If there was an 85% significance category it would fall within that bound (See Figure 4). EDITOR’S NOTE: That being said, record calendar-day precipitation events are not as relevant as 24-hour precipitation events might be given that intense rainfalls do not follow neat calen
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby DrEvil » Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:09 pm

Ben D » Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:39 am wrote:I don't know what sort of logic you are using...but it's fuzzy. A Malthusian agenda is one associated with the intention to depopulate the planet....why do you link my skepticism of the belief that humans are the predominant cause of climate change, with someone who has the intention to reduce the planet's human population?


Simple, really. I think skeptics like you are holding back what needs to be done. That delay will most likely result in a lot of famine, flooding, migrations, war and death. Maybe not intentionally Malthusian, but the end result is very similar.

I wouldn't be surprised if some rich bastards are funding the skeptics for that very purpose. No need to get your hands dirty when you can get people to do it to themselves.

Speaking of fuzzy logic: How does trying to combat climate change make the IPCC, UN, etc. Malthusian?
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:58 pm

^ If you admit that skeptics are not intentional Malthusian, then it follows logically they are not pushing a Malthusian agenda...so stop saying it!

If by the 'rich bastards', you mean the planetary ruling elite who are behind the mic, wars, enslavers and polluters of the planetary resources, etc., then yes....there are some really badass types among this crowd who use their influence in powerful organizations like the UN and other international panels to press their Malthusian agenda.

Now the Earth's population is 7 billion and growing, the material resources and energy requirements are growing to meet the ever increasing demand, the costs to the environment is likewise growing...all things being equal, given the limits of our present technology and knowledge, this can't go on forever.....clearly and naturally the ruling elite who own or have great influence over the planet's wealth and resources, the UN, and world governments, are aware of this and some are on the case.

So think about this....if present humanity's insatiable need for ever more carbon based energy could be blamed for destroying the climate of the planet and we are therefore all doomed if nothing is done...then it follows logically that the population should be reduced to a level which is sustainable and consistent with a stable climate....or at least I can see a reasonable case to be made for this.

Now in the context of climate, what sort of purpose is there for the pro-Malthusian ruling elite types to fund skeptics whose climate science studies undermine the 'blame humans' cause of the climate change science of the UN IPCC and UN Framework on Convention on Climate Change affiliated AGW global science community? None that I can see....can you?

But I can see the purpose for them supporting a global campaign to blame climate change on humans as it serves as pretext to 'save the planet' with a global carbon tax which would raise energy costs to a level whereby the cost of living would be sufficiently high so as to make having large families financially prohibitive to the poor who form the majority of humanity...thus bringing about a step forward wrt attempts to regulate the world's human population.
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

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