Global Research, Chossudovsky, Russia, Propaganda

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Re: Global Research, Chossudovsky, Russia, Propaganda

Postby Belligerent Savant » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:13 pm

American Dream » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:36 pm wrote:Searcher-

Anton S. is an important anti-fascist writer and one of the more rigorous scholars in the field. I believe him to be conveying lots of valid information about the broader area of study, which is an important one. This does not- and never should- preclude critical thinking.

I don't buy the argument about "globalists" as I have seen it presented here- it seems very muddy and arbitrary to me. As to Soros and/or Ukrainian nationalism, I have been clear about my own critiques and values but I do agree with Jack that a writer should not be excluded out of hand just because they affiliated in some way with an entity I have disgreements with.

Also, I really do have more pressing engagements and should not be spending and/or wasting much of my time here at all- that is an ongoing fact, not to mention that when I am getting upset or otherwise triggered, I have every reason- and every right- to absent myself from the proceedings.

Speaking of which, I am under heavy deadlines and do need to focus on other things. Which is what I am doing now.


Autofellatio, or the art of verbal onanism.
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Re: Global Research, Chossudovsky, Russia, Propaganda

Postby Sounder » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:16 pm

I'm not going to pursue a big, backward looking fight here-
:jumping: :jumping: :jumping:

Oh really? So you will now apologize for posting that ' backward looking fight' from Jack?

OK, new board rule; members must not not contradict themselves in the first sentence of their post. :coolshades

(It makes a persons passive aggressive mode so transparently explicit that a banning would greatly help to alleviate the boards embarrassment.)
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Global Research, Chossudovsky, Russia, Propaganda

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:51 pm

Michael Parenti lecture delivered on 9/20/01 at Modesto Junior College, Modesto, California entitled "Globalization and Terrorism"

Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Global Research, Chossudovsky, Russia, Propaganda

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:13 pm

American Dream » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:36 pm wrote:Anton S. is an important anti-fascist writer and one of the more rigorous scholars in the field.


As long as you're 'peeking' :roll: I've got a legitimate question to this statement you made about Anton Shekhovtsov: says who? I mean, who besides yourself is labelling this blogger as "important"? I'm not denigrating him at all, just trying to establish his creds.

On that subject, if you really want this thread to have substance and rigor, you might want to answer this question alan ford asked you about Anton S. way back on page one:

alan ford » Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:06 pm wrote:Another quote from the same article:
While the Ukrainian far right has indeed endorsed and used violence against Viktor Yanukovych's corrupt authoritarian regime and the brutal police who abuse and torture protesters, they are not the only violent force of Euromaidan. They are joined by many Ukrainian left-wingers and democrats who have become radicalised as a result of the lack of progress of non-violent resistance to the country's slipping into an outright dicatorship.

Just a simple question is - where is his statement ( that "left wingers and democrats are violent as well as far right") coming from?
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Re: Global Research, Chossudovsky, Russia, Propaganda

Postby stefano » Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:34 am

Sounder wrote:As I have said in the past, maybe before your time here stefano; the polarity is within the category rather than between categories.

Many fine people dedicate their lives toward creating civil society protocols, sometimes earnestly trying to harmonize their work with work done in other contexts and countries, while sometimes the underlying motives of the sponsors comes to the fore, decimating the gains made by people sponsored within that same system.


I know. And sometimes not, right? The fact that oligarchs are using the global framework to get rich at everyone else's expense says nothing about the desirability for such a framework, it just says that the powerful, as a class, are out to fuck everyone else. Which is a pretty banal observation. And rejecting 'globalism' is no defence against that process, as should be obvious from the way someone like John Bolton, hater of international frameworks, held on to political relevance for quite a long time. That didn't just happen - he was useful to a certain subset of oligarchs, and people like him still are. Nigel Farage doesn't pay for his own lunch in the City of London, believe me.
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Re: Global Research, Chossudovsky, Russia, Propaganda

Postby stefano » Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:41 am

By the way, if you haven't twigged that AD is wasting your time on purpose - AD is wasting your time on purpose.
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Re: Global Research, Chossudovsky, Russia, Propaganda

Postby American Dream » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:18 am

It's certainly true that I don't have the interest or energy for big debates, especially when the likelihood of really fruitful exchange seems low to me. It's also true that I have strongly held beliefs, which can lead me towards not being understanding towards those whose beliefs are really different. That I am working on, but it does take time and effort and my core values will likely be staying pretty much the same.

Mostly though, I don't have the time to get involved with conversations even remotely approaching an ongoing/involved process here. I already distract myself way too much, do have important and ongoing deadlines and very much need to focus on that.

So while I think of Putin on the one hand as being to Russia somewhat as President Nixon was to the United States, (i.e. a political boss manipulating national chauvinism and reactionary tendencies in the service of geopolitical goals) and yet on the other as an underdog boss for whom I have some relative degree of sympathy, I'm not going to be hashing these (or other) issues out at any length with anyone here. I hope I haven't seemed to promise otherwise- and I don't think I have.

In fact, I've already spent much more time on this than I really should, and will be getting back to the things I need most to focus on now.
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Re: Global Research, Chossudovsky, Russia, Propaganda

Postby Sounder » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:29 am

Sounder wrote:As I have said in the past, maybe before your time here stefano; the polarity is within the category rather than between categories.

Many fine people dedicate their lives toward creating civil society protocols, sometimes earnestly trying to harmonize their work with work done in other contexts and countries, while sometimes the underlying motives of the sponsors comes to the fore, decimating the gains made by people sponsored within that same system.


I know. And sometimes not, right?


Yes, sometimes, many times, good things come out of this system.
Two steps forward then three steps back, occasionally followed by three steps forward and only two going back. (What dance is that?)

The fact that oligarchs are using the global framework to get rich at everyone else's expense says nothing about the desirability for such a framework, it just says that the powerful, as a class, are out to fuck everyone else.


Well it does suggest that we might consider better the actual forces present in setting up that framework.

Which is a pretty banal observation.


‘Just’ always makes the words that follow seem banal, that's the purpose of that stupid word.

And rejecting 'globalism' is no defence against that process, as should be obvious from the way someone like John Bolton, hater of international frameworks, held on to political relevance for quite a long time.


I reject globalist corporatism, and new innovations in the science of tax farming, not the globalism that represents attempts to build protocols for better relations and understanding between nations.

That didn't just happen - he was useful to a certain subset of oligarchs, and people like him still are. Nigel Farage doesn't pay for his own lunch in the City of London, believe me.


John Bolton is a sick man; I am not a hater of international frameworks and have never indicated as such. Please do not associate me with that person, it is not deserved.
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Re: Global Research, Chossudovsky, Russia, Propaganda

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:38 pm

Ukraine Elections Bring Society Closer to Brink of all Out War and Economic Collapse
by Dylan and Jo Murphy / November 5th, 2014

The parliamentary elections in Ukraine has been lavished with praise by Western politicians and the mainstream media as confirmation of the country’s turn towards democracy and a rejection of Putin’s evil Russian empire. What the media drones and corporate politicians won’t tell you is that these elections represent a disaster for the ordinary people of Ukraine.

Ukraine is bankrupt and its economy is rapidly collapsing. It has been promised billions in aid from the IMF and EU in return for the most vicious austerity measures that will make Greece look like a picnic. Industry and agriculture are suffering steep declines in production while austerity measures will lead to huge cuts in wages and welfare benefits. At the same time the rapid immiserisation of the masses is worsening due to massive price increases in basic foodstuffs and essential utilities such as electricity, gas and water.

All of the capitalist politicians elected to the new Rada have no solution to these devastating economic problems. Their economic programme can be summed up in the slogan; “Austerity, austerity and yet more austerity.” Capitalism offers an extremely bleak future to the ordinary people of Ukraine.

The election will likeliest return a government that is committed to continuing the war against its own people in the rebel held regions of Donetsk and Lugansk. It confirms the splitting up of the country into several parts. Crimea will stay with Russia while the People’s Republics of Donetsk and Lugansk which make up Novorossia will continue to fight for their independence, which leaves the rest of Ukraine minus about 15% of its former population.

It would be more accurate to call this election the ”battle of the billionaires”. All of the political parties that got representation in the new Rada are puppets of the different billionaire oligarchs. It is these people who really call the shots in collaboration with their masters in Washington.

There is nothing remotely progressive about the motley collection of ultra-nationalists who will make up the new Rada. Most of the new MPs are rabidly right wing and ultra hostile to Russia, the breakaway regions of Donetsk and Lugansk, the trade unions, the Communist Party, the list goes on. It includes an assortment of Holocaust deniers and sympathisers for the Ukrainian Nazis who fought with the SS during World War Two. It would appear that even people wanted by Interpol for inciting terrorism and responsible for the Odessa massacre on 2 May, such as Right Sector fuhrer, Dmitry Yarosh, can be elected to the new Rada.

Let’s take a few examples to show how deeply hollow are the claims that the new Rada will be committed to democracy and freedom. The People’s Front party of Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenuk topped the poll with 22.2% of the vote. The People’s Front is closely allied with various volunteer battalions of neo-Nazis that have fought in the Donbass region committing war crimes against Russian speakers. Take, for example, the Aidar battalion which Amnesty International has accused of war crimes during the Ukrainian government’s summer offensive against Novorossia.

Along with this bunch of murderers you have the ultra violent crazies found in the Radical Party led by Oleh Lyashko. The Radical Party received around 8% of the vote and 22 seats in the Rada. The coup in February that brought the CIA-sponsored regime to power has meant psychopaths such as Lyashko can go around illegally arresting people and taping himself torturing them with impunity. Amnesty International has called on Ukraine’s government to arrest Lyashko and his armed associates.

Then we have newly elected MP Yury Bereza commander of the volunteer battalion Dnepr-1. Live on Ukrainian television he recently said that the volunteer battalions are ready to invade Russia and carry out acts of sabotage including the carrying out of bombings. This great democrat was criticised by a recent UN report that accused volunteer battalions including Dnepr-1 of violating international humanitarian law during the summer.

In the absence of any Left alternative that can lead a fightback against the austerity measures demanded by Western capitalism the people of Ukraine face an almost certain revival of the civil war. The ultra nationalists who dominate the new Rada show no mood for compromise with the breakaway regions of Donetsk and Lugansk. A revival of the war will be used to try and distract the shivering masses away from their daily struggle to pay the bills and make ends meet.

I recently spoke with Russian blogger Rozhin Boris, otherwise known as Colonel Cassad, whose in depth reports from the front lines of Novorossia shed a lot of light on military/political developments in this war torn region.
`
DM: The United Nations has recently estimated that over 3,660 people have been killed in the fighting in Eastern Ukraine. Could you describe the extent of the humanitarian crisis facing ordinary people in Novorossia?

RB: This assessment is very far from the reality. The armed forces of the Kiev junta have lost 12 to 18 thousand dead. They are responsible for the deaths of thousands of civilians. The militias of Novorossia have lost 5-6,000 dead. The total number of deaths is approximately 25-30 thousand with of tens of thousands of wounded militia members, civilians and junta soldiers. Officially more than 250,000 civilians have fled the Donbass, unofficially it’s over a million. The Donbass is facing a humanitarian catastrophe.

DM: Should the people of Donetsk and Lugansk regions be allowed to decide their own fate? The right of nations to self-determination has a long history in the region. When the Bolsheviks came to power in 1917 Lenin proclaimed this right for national groups living within the Russian Empire, and Finland gained its independence. Why do you think the US and its European allies steadfastly refuse to recognise the national aspirations of the people of Lugansk and Donetsk?

RB: The people of Donetsk and Lugansk have already decided in a referendum on 11 May (which was held in defiance of the will of the Junta, which had been against the referendum and against the will of Moscow, which had tried to stop it). The U.S. refused to recognize the new reality, because they are engaged in a hybrid war against Russia in the Ukraine, and the establishment of these republics they saw as the success of Russia, which is contrary to their interests. The fact that, in so doing, they are following double standards, recognizing the legitimacy of the secession of Kosovo from Serbia and not recognizing the legitimacy of Donetsk and Lugansk from Ukraine. This is their normal practice for the protection of their national interests.

DM: The return of Crimea to the Russian federation is being used as the pretext for economic sanctions against Russia. Do you think these sanctions will have any significant impact on the policies/actions of Russia with regard to Novorossia?

RB: These sanctions already had some impact, forcing Russia to recognize the legitimacy of the Kiev junta and to abandon the idea of open-ended input to support the People’s Republics of Donetsk and Lugansk. There is an effective limit to this pressure, as Russia in spite of the threats from Obama to capitulate does not want to and will not do so. Further sanctions will only escalate the confrontation. Their economic impact will increase, but the political component will fail.

DM: The Poroshenko regime launched an ATO (Anti-Terrorist Operation) in June designed to eliminate the “terrorists” in Lugansk and Donetsk. Throughout the summer it made numerous claims that it was defeating the self-defence militias of Novorossia and that by 24 August 2014 the ‘separatist forces’ would have been crushed. However, it is obvious this has not happened. Can you tell us why Poroshenko has failed in his military objectives?

RB: The Ukrainian army had the overwhelming superiority in numbers of men and technology. Despite some tactical successes the Ukrainian army has suffered a series of disastrous military defeats, which lost thousands of soldiers, dozens of fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters, and hundreds of pieces of armour. The main causes of defeat were: low morale of the Ukrainian army and punitive battalions of the National Guard, poor condition of its logistics and intelligence, resilience of the infantry militia of Novorossia, military-technical assistance on the part of Russia, and the incompetent command of the Ukrainian minister of defence.

DM: During the summer the Western media was full of warmongering articles screaming for more and more sanctions on Russia which had allegedly invaded Eastern Ukraine. Since the Minsk ceasefire agreement the Western media has gone fairly quiet on the issue of the war against the people of Novorossia. Has the ceasefire agreement led to a cessation of hostilities against the people of Novorossia?

RB: Sanctions against Russia had been in force before the present hot phase of the war on the Donbass and therefore the participation of Russia in support for the militia of Novorossia. Russia is being punished by sanctions for the accession of Crimea and its support for the uprising in the Donbass. The Minsk agreement has not ended the war simply; the intensity of the fighting has fallen. Nevertheless, almost every day artillery of the junta has shelled the city of Donetsk, almost every day it has killed civilians and militiamen, on some days – tens of people. The militia, in turn, continues to attack parts of the junta’s armed forces causing her serious losses, which are sometimes in the tens per day.

DM: The Kiev regime is confronting a series of crises. It faces a collapsing economy that will be compounded by the massive austerity cuts demanded by the IMF and EU. Secondly, it faces an energy crisis due to its refusal to pay its gas debts owed to Gasprom. Finally, it faces a military crisis due to the defeats it suffered in late August. There are elections looming in Ukraine on 26 October. How likely is it that Poroshenko will launch another military offensive against Novorossia after the elections?

RB: There is a strong chance that there will be an offensive after the elections with a view to raise the government’s poll ratings by tactical victories on the front. Strategically, the war is being driven by the US, within the framework of its continuing confrontation with Russia. The Kiev junta needs a war against Novorossia to distract the Ukrainian people from increasing socio-economic problems and it will carry on trying to solve the ”problem” of Novorossia by force.

DM: How significant are the activities of Neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine? Over the last year groups such as Svboda and the Right Sector have been used to help overthrow Yanukovich through the Maiden protests. They have been used to attack trade unionists and members of the Communist Party and small socialist groups, such as Borotba. Besides this, they have been used to intimidate and attack Russian speakers in Eastern Ukraine. Neo-Nazis have played a significant role in the various volunteer battalions that have committed war crimes against Russian speakers in the Donbass. Many people on the Left in Europe dismiss these groups as insignificant. What do you think?

RB: Fascist groups are fighting on behalf of the Ukrainian billionaire oligarchs and are used to implement their policy objectives to suppress the working class. The billionaire oligarchs openly seized power, refusing even the shortest period of power sharing with the politicians who are puppets. The country is now openly managed by the oligarchs who are dependent on American imperialism. We can see that for fascism, communism remains its worst of enemies. Ukrainian fascists are infected with primitive racist attitudes towards Russian speakers. Ukrainian fascists get support from their media. In Europe part of the left does not understand the threat posed by fascism in Ukraine due to political blindness. From my point of view, any modern people of left or communist views are obliged to one degree or another to take part in the fight against the Ukrainian fascism, as it threatens not only the people of Ukraine, but also threatens to plunge the world into a major war.

DM: The war in Eastern Ukraine has led to an influx of foreign volunteers going to fight for the self-defence militias of Lugansk and Donetsk. According to a report in August by Paula Slier of Russia Today a brigade of international volunteers is to be formed called ‘United Continent’. Do you think parallels can be drawn between this force and the International Brigades that fought against fascism in the Spanish Civil War in the 1930s?

RB: First, you need to understand that the major part of the army of Novorossia are local residents. Volunteers from Russia make up about 10-15 % of the militia. 1-2% of the volunteers who serve in the militias come from other countries – the US, Germany, Italy, France, Spain, Brazil, Colombia, Serbia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Abkhazia, South Ossetia and a number of other countries. The main motivation of these people is to fight against fascism. With the increase in the number of left-wing and communist units in the armed forces of Novorossia (especially in the mechanized brigade, known as the “ghost” Alexey think-tank, which openly advocated the elimination of large capital), this analogy with the International Brigades has become even more apparent. It is understood that in combat units there are people across the political and ideological views – in one battalion can be found Christian believers (Orthodox, or Mormons), and atheists, communists, and anarchists. The fight against Ukrainian fascism has drawn these seemingly polar ideological and political currents together. It is therefore to strengthen the Armed Forces of Novorossia that Lenin portraits can peacefully coexist with icons. One commander who does not love communists, can still raise people in an attack with screaming, “For the Homeland! For Stalin! “. For many in the the Russian Federation and Europe – this is not just a war, this is our Spain 1936-1938. The present bloody war reflects the profound contradictions of the contemporary global capitalist world.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Global Research, Chossudovsky, Russia, Propaganda

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:22 pm

OK, since neither alan ford nor I will get our questions answered regarding Anton Shekhovtsov, let's return to the subject of Russia and Propaganda, and who's really laying it on thick in that respect:

"Europe Is Under Threat By Russia" George Soros Warns The EU To Take Action, "Freedom Isn't Free"

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 11/05/2014

Authored by Kevin O'Brien and Gabor Steingart, originally posted at Handelsblatt,

E.U. May Crack Over Ukraine, Soros Warns

The legendary Hungarian-American investor, George Soros, told Handelsblatt that the European Union and euro currency zone could unravel if member countries can't agree on a unified response to Russia's aggression in Ukraine.

The European Union and the euro could founder if its members don’t stand together against Russia, George Soros said Tuesday in Düsseldorf. Source: Frank Beer for Handelsblatt George Soros, one of the world’s richest men and a tireless defender of Central European democracy, warned that the European Union, a mainstay of post-war stability, could dissolve and unravel if the 28-country bloc can’t agree on a common response to Russia’s aggression in the Ukraine.

Speaking on Tuesday in Düsseldorf at a dinner sponsored by Handelsblatt, Mr. Soros, an 84-year-old Hungarian-American who survived the Holocaust and then fled the Soviets, said the future of the European alliance of nations stretching from Ireland to Estonia could hang in the balance.

Russia this year seized the Crimean peninsula from the Ukraine and is now arming and supporting a separatist movement in the eastern part of the country, an action which has been met with economic sanctions from the United States and the European Union.

The sanctions have hurt Russian and European trade, and have led to a slowdown of economic growth on the Continent. In Germany, some business and political leaders are now calling on political leaders to abandon the E.U. sanctions.

In other parts of Europe, the call is growing louder for a softer line with Russia.

“I think the real question is whether the European Union will break up over Russia," Mr. Soros told 400 people at a dinner held in a Düsseldorf museum by the German financial publishing group. “The E.U. is under threat from Russia... The E.U. is broken, and it is not functioning."

Mr. Soros, a legendary investor and hedge fund manager whom Forbes estimates is worth $24 billion, warned of an E.U. breakup and a breakup of the euro single currency zone, which includes 18 E.U. countries, including Germany.

In an interview with Gabor Steingart, the Handelsblatt publisher and the son of a Hungarian emigrant to Germany, Mr. Soros urged Europeans to stand together against Russia, which he said is bent on reasserting its military hegemony over parts of the Continent.

“Wake up Europe," said Mr. Soros, who had just returned from a visit to Ukraine. “There is now an alternative to the European Union, a different way to run a state through use of force. I’m talking about (Vladimir) Putin’s Russia. The reason he is making headway is because of the failure of the E.U."

The son of Jewish parents in Budapest, Mr. Soros survived the Nazi occupation and left the Hungarian capital and Soviet control in 1947 as a 17-year-old for Britain, where he attended the London School of Economics before emigrating to the United States.

Western economic sanctions against Russia, which are limiting the ability of Russian businesses to obtain financing on the global market, are a necessary evil, Mr. Soros said. He lauded the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, for supporting the E.U. penalties.

“I think Angela Merkel has proven herself to be a true European stateswoman in recognizing the danger that Putin represents," Mr. Soros said.

The sanctions, however, are helping Russian hardliners close to President Putin consolidate power and influence in the Kremlin, which in turn is sharpening and stiffening Russia’s response to Western penalties, he said. Some oligarchs unhappy with the worsening situation are sending their families abroad and preparing for their own exits, he said.

In many cases, though, any assets they leave behind are being taken over by Russian hardliners, which is worsening the spiral of recrimination with the West, Mr. Soros said.

“The sanctions are an evil but they are a necessary evil and are having the very bad effect in Russia of actively strengthening Putin’s role," Mr. Soros said. “There is taking place a concentration of his closest allies." Sentiment in Germany is split over E.U. sanctions against Russia.

In a new book released this month, the former German chancellor, Helmut Kohl, who oversaw his country’s reunification 25 years ago and negotiated the withdrawal of Russian forces, takes aim at Ms. Merkel and European leaders for policies he said are isolating Russia.

Mr. Soros, however, said Europe needed to redouble its hard line against Russia, and said that U.S. President Barack Obama’s failure to take a strong immediate response to Russia’s seizure of Ukraine territory only emboldened Vladimir Putin, who could conceivably transfer his designs from Ukraine to the Baltic countries, which are now E.U. members.

"Freedom sounds like a free good, but you have to be ready to defend it," Mr. Soros said. “If you don’t put up resistance, it will become too hot to handle."

Pro-European Ukrainians are “fighting to defend Europe and the Europeans don’t realize it,’’ Mr. Soros said. Moving on to economic issues, Mr. Soros faulted Germany for doing too little to restore euro zone stability. He said the inflation-fighting mandate of the European Central Bank, which is based in Frankfurt, is no longer appropriate when deflation, not inflation, is the real threat.

The ECB is controlled by Germany, the zone’s largest economy and toughest enforcer of austerity demands on weaker euro countries such as Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy, Mr. Soros said. Referring to the ECB president, Mario Draghi, Mr. Soros said: “Draghi can do whatever it takes (to save the euro) as long as he has the support of Angela Merkel," Mr. Soros said. “The ECB is independent as long as it has support from Germany."

German demands for austerity are wrong-headed, he said, and only serve to impede the euro zone’s recovery.

"The policy of austerity is inappropriate to the current conditions," Mr. Soros said. "We are in a situation of deflation and the policies are directed at inflation."


The Baltics? Cool story, bro. Who knew the domino theory was alive and well in the 21st century?
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Re: Global Research, Chossudovsky, Russia, Propaganda

Postby Sounder » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:39 pm

Warmongers have creative ways to be threatening these days.

As mentioned before, the 'left' is being used by the oligarchs to destabilize, and then fascists used to enforce the new 'order'

Oligarchs love revolutions; big circle jerks that allow them to impose 'innovations'.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Global Research, Chossudovsky, Russia, Propaganda

Postby stefano » Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:27 am

Sounder » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:29 pm wrote:I reject globalist corporatism, and new innovations in the science of tax farming, not the globalism that represents attempts to build protocols for better relations and understanding between nations.


Right, noted. Same here.
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Re: Global Research, Chossudovsky, Russia, Propaganda

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:40 pm

Image
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Global Research, Chossudovsky, Russia, Propaganda

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:06 pm

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Should Putin be publicly castigated for his LGBT policies? Absolutely.
Do Putin's LGBT policies & foreign policy make him Hitler? Give me a fucking break.

Way to get your Godwin on, Matthew Breen! As punishment for your histrionics, I'm ordering Hillary Clinton and Victoria Nuland to sit on your face.
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Re: Global Research, Chossudovsky, Russia, Propaganda

Postby American Dream » Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:28 am

https://avtonom.org/en/author_columns/a ... -civil-war

Wed, 07/05/2014 - 15:59 Антти Раутиайнен

Anarchism in the context of civil war

ImageOn Friday, the 2nd of May, the House of Trade Unions in Odessa caught on fire. Altogether at least 42 people lost their lives during the clashes in the city, most of them in the fire and the others in streetfights. There is an excellent Russian language, eyewitness account of the events available here.

Events began to unfold when armed pro-Russian AntiMaidan fighters attacked a demonstration organised by football hooligans with nationalist sympathies. This attack resulted in lethalities, but soon the pro-Russians were overpowered. They escaped back to their protest camp in the Kulikovo field, but pro-Kiev demonstrators followed and lit the protest camp on fire. The pro-Russians then escaped to the House of the Trade Unions, which soon caught on fire. The fire spreading, is visible in this video. At the 2 minute mark, you can see a flame behind a closed window, making it plausible that some of the fires were started from the inside. For example, due to accidents with Molotov cocktails which were used by both sides during the fight. However, you can also see pro-Ukrainian nationalists throwing Molotov cocktails, making them at least partially responsible for the fire.

There are doubts as to whether the core group of pro-Russians who attacked the demonstration with firearms were outside provocateurs. But certainly, there were people in the House of Trade Unions, who had nothing to do with the attack. In a number of photographs, you can see police protecting the core group of attackers. Otherwise, police were very passive during the fire, and did not interfere in the events. Even if the police were not part of a conspiracy, at the least, they acted completely unprofessionally.

During the weekend, troops of the central government and local «federalists» had been waging war in the city of Kramatorsk in Eastern Ukraine. This means, that what is happening in the Ukraine can already be considered a civil war. In the upcoming weeks, it will become clear how widely the warfare will spread and if Russia will interfere.

I consider myself an expert on the Russian context as I lived in Moscow for more than 12 years, but this does not mean that I am an expert on the Ukrainian one. I have only visited the country three times in the last years, and have hardly more than 20 friends there. Still, when getting myself acquainted with the Ukraine, I quickly understood that civil war could be a possible scenario there. All of my Ukrainian friends, however, were absolutely certain, that nothing like that would ever happen there. That even with all the differences between Eastern and Western Ukraine, no-one was prepared to kill in their name. They were convinced, that Ukraine could never become another Yugoslavia. All of them had acquaintances, friends and loved ones on both sides of the river Dnieper, both Ukrainian and Russian speakers. But if you only ever take into consideration your own friends, you will fall into the trap of scaling, obstructing those mechanisms which create hatred on a large scale.

War does not require personal hatred between people, geopolitical and economical reasons are good enough for that. And in the Ukraine, the geopolitical interests are far greater than in Yugoslavia. If you have an interest in flaring up ethnic hatred or war, a rather small ethnic rift is enough. A few abuses, murders, and kidnappings, and everyone will be ready for battle. This has succeeded now in Ukraine, just as it has succeeded in many other places.

At the moment, the Western «left» seems to be pretty much clueless in terms of the events taking place there. This is because the «left,» broadly speaking, is not a very useful concept in the former Soviet Union, as it can mean anything from social-democrats and anarchists, to stalinists supporting Putin. Personally, I prefer to always write the word in quotation marks. I identify with anarchists, not the «left,» since, for quite a while now anarchists have been the only political force in Russia which united the ethos of opposing racism, sexism and homophobia to the ethos of social equality. Until very recently, there had not been much of any Western «new left» in Russia, with the exception of a handful of Trotskyists.

A split within the «left» in Ukraine is completely predictable and even necessary. In Kharkiv the streetfighting, Stalinist organisation, «Borotba» (meaning Struggle) has been on the opposite side of the anarchists. In this region of the former Soviet Union, 99.9% of the «left» will always support imperialism for the sake of «being with the people.» It is about time that anarchists refuse the «left» label. We have nothing in common with these people.

But anarchists, too, can be easily manipulated with buzzwords such as «self-organisation» and «direct democracy.» For example, Boris Kagarlitsky, a Russian intellectual widely known amongst the Western «left» and a frequent guest of World Social Forums, has found favorable ground in the West by using these buzzwords.

Apparently, the Ukrainian and Russian anarchists could not foresee the developments which lead to the civil war. Maidan had only been discussed from the point of view that it could offer something better than the Yanukovich regime. It was not expected that Russia would react to a Maidan victory with a conscious escalation of the conflict, and which could eventually lead to civil war.

Whereas Russia is the major propaganda machine and arms provider in the conflict, Western countries are not doing much better, as they only acknowledge the interests of the new government in Kiev and present the movement in Eastern Ukraine as mere Russian puppets.The armed wing of the «federalists» are definitely Kremlin puppets, but if it were not for the widespread discontent and protests against the new regime in Kiev, this armed wing would not have emerged.

I do not believe that a civil war was the Kremlin's aim. First of all, it wanted to destablizie Ukraine to the maximum in order to have Kiev give up any attempts to gain back control over Crimea. Now the situation is out of the Kremlin's control, and it may have to send regular troops to Ukraine in order to fulfill the promise of support it has given to the «federalists.»

The government in Kiev has given so many «final ultimatums» which were quickly forgotten, and has announced so many unexisting «anti-terrorist operations,» that it is clear it has very few battle-ready troops. A few times, the central government troops have actually taken action and the results have been tragi-comic. Thus, the government understands that it's still in question whether it would succeed in a full-scale civil war. However, it also understands, that war can help discipline society and stabilize the new order to the extent, that any promises given to Maidan would be forgotten. With time, both sides have come to understand that a full-scale war might be necessary for their interests, even if neither was initially planning for this.

Disagreements within the anarchist movement
Over the course of events, the Ukrainian and Russian anarchist movements have split into three different sides. A first group concentrated on producing internet-statements against both sides of the conflict. For them, keeping out of any social processes is a matter of principle, and they only want to monitor and assess. Participation in the social protest is not a goal for them, as they prefer to keep their hands clean. Since every process has input from either disgusting liberals, hated nationalists, awful stalinists, all three at the same time, or other undesirables, one can never fully participate in anything and the only alternative is to stay home and publish statements on the internet about how everything is going from bad to worse. However, most of the time these statements are just self-evident, banalities.

A second group, was made up of those who got excited about all the riot-porn and anti-police violence in Kiev, without considering who was carrying out this violence and in whose interests. Certain antifascists drifted as far as to defend the «national unity» in Maidan, and threatened particular Kiev anarchists due to their criticism of Maidan and refusal to participate. Most of the people in this camp are just fans of anti-police violence without any theoretical frame, but some want to give Maidan an imagined anti-authoritarian flavor, by equating the general meeting of Maidan («Veche») with the revolutionary councils established during 20th century revolutions. They base this claim on the social demands occasionally presented at Maidan, but these demands were always at the periphery of the Maidan agenda.

One of these peripheral demands was the proposal that oligarchs should pay a tenth of their income in taxes and was generally in tune with nationalistic populism. However, the demands of the Kiev Maidan were still far from returning the billions stolen by oligarchs back to society. In Vinnytsa and Zhitomir, there was an attempt to expropriate factories owned by German capital , but this was the only case going beyond the national-liberal context that I am familiar with.

In any case, the main problem at Maidan wasn't the lack of a social agenda and direct democracy, but the fact that people did not even demand them. Even if everyone kept repeating that they did not want another «orange revolution» like in 2004, nor for Yulia Timoshenko to return, at the end of the day chocolate industrialist Poroshenko and Vitaly Klitchko are leading the polls. This was the choice the people made as they grew weary of the revolutionary path as proposed by the radical nationalists of the Right sector. As of now, people want to return to «life as usual,» to life before Yanukovich, and are not prepared to make the sacrifices that further revolutionary developments would demand. Representative democracy is indeed like a hydra, if you cut one head, two will grow in its place.

However, none of the fears of «fascist takeover» have materialized. Fascists gained very little real power, and in Ukraine their historical role will now be that of stormtroopers for liberal reforms demanded by the IMF and the European Union — that is, pension cuts, an up to five times increase in consumer gas prices, and others. Fascism in Ukraine has a powerful tradition, but it has been incapable of proceeding with its own agenda in the revolutionary wave. It is highly likely, that the Svoboda-party will completely discredit itself in front of its voters.

But anyone attempting to intervene, anarchists included, could have encountered the same fate — that is, to be sidelined after all the effort. During the protests, anarchists and the «left» were looking towards the Right sector with envy, but in the end all the visibility and notoriety, for which they paid dearly, was not enough to help the Right sector gain any real influence.

If Kiev anarchists would have picked the position of «neutral observers» after Yanukovich had shot demonstrators, it would have completely discredited them. If after being shot, the working class, or more exactly «the people,» that is, the working class along with the lower strata of the bourgeoisie, would have failed to overthrow Yanukovich, Ukrainian society woul have fallen into a lethargic sleep such as the one Russian and Belarusian societies are experiencing. Obviously, after the massacre there was no choice left except to overthrow the power, no matter what would come in its place. Anarchists in Kiev were in no position to significantly influence the situation, but standing aside was no longer an option.

And thus, we come to the third, «centrist,» position taken by anarchists — between the brainless actionism and the «neutral» internet statements. The camp of realist anarchists understood, that even if the Maidan protests pretty much lacked a meaningful positive program, something had to be done or the future would be dire.

The limits of intervention
In Kiev, anarchists took part in a number of important initiatives during the revolutionary wave — first of all the occupation of the ministry of education, and the raid against the immigration bureau by the local No Border group, which was looking for proof of illegal cooperation with security services of foreign countries. But the most succesful anarchist intervention was the one in Kharkiv, where Maidan was relatively weak but also freeer of nationalistic influence.

Still, such centrism has its own problems. For one, you might unintentionally help the wrong forces gain power, also discrediting radical protest. A second problem would be that you might end up fighting a fight which is not your own. When AntiMaidan attacked the Maidan in the city of Kharkiv, its imagined enemy were not the anarchists, but NATO, EU or Western-Ukrainian fascists. Since anarchists had joined Maidan, it would have been cowardly to desert once the fight started. Thus anarchists ended up fighting side by side with liberals and fascists. I do not want to criticize the Kharkiv anarchists, after all they made, perhaps, the most serious attempt among Ukrainian anarchists to influence the course of events, but this was hardly the fight, and these were hardly the allies they wanted.

And so, comes the point when desertion becomes imperative, and that is when civil war begins. As of now, it's still too early to make any final assessment of the anarchist attempts to influence Maidan, but after the beginning of a civil war, Maidan will no longer play a role. From now on, assembly will gradually turn to the army, and assault rifles will replace Molotov cocktails. Military discipline will replace spontaneous organisation.

Some supporters of the Ukrainian organisation, Borotba (meaning Struggle) and the Russian Left Front claim that they are attempting to do the same things as the anarchists did at Maidan, that is, direct protest towards social demands. But AntiMaidan has no structures of direct democracy, not even distorted ones. It quickly adopted the model of hierarchical, militaristic organisations. The AntiMaidan leadership consists of former police and reserve officers. It does not attempt to exert influence through the masses, but with military power and weapons. This makes perfect sense, considering that according to a recent opinion poll, even in the most pro-«federalist» area of Lugansk, a mere 24% of the population is in favor of armed takeovers of government structures. That is, AntiMaidan cannot count on a victory through mass demonstrations.

Whereas at its essence Maidan was a middle-class liberal and nationalistic protest, supported by part of the bourgeoisie, AntiMaidan is purely counter-revolutionary in tendency. Of course, AntiMaidan has its own grassroots level. One could attempt to intervene, but an intervention by joining would mean supporting a Soviet, imperialist approach. The Communist Party of the Russian Federation, Borotba, the Russian Left Front and Boris Kagarlitsky have all joined this Soviet chauvinist camp. Intervening in Maidan made sense only as long as the enemy were Berkut police forces and paid thugs. When the opponents are mislead AntiMaidan participants, it no longer makes sense to fight in the streets.

When looking at either side of the conflict one can see a dangerous tendency, which every anarchist and anti-authoritarian will face in the future: the recuperation of anti-authoritarian rhetoric and terminology for the purposes of hierarchical ideologies. On the one side, «autonomous nationalists» who have found sympathy amongst many anarchists, and on the other, intellectuals such as Boris Kagarlitsky. Both characterising warring factions with attributes such as «direct democracy» and «self organisation.» In reality, these characteristics are either present in a distorted form or not at all. When two different flavors of nationalism are «self-organising» in order to maim and murder each other, there is nothing to celebrate. Subsequent to the events in Ukraine, it is clear that anarchists must explain the essential difference between «self-organisation» and self-organisation to the world.

According to the opinion poll referenced above, in Eastern Ukraine as a whole, only 12% of the population supports the «federalists'» armed actions, whereas the Kiev government is supported by some 30%. The remaining 58% supports neither, and in conditions of civil war, this is the majority on which we should count. We should encourage desertion and conflict avoidance. Under any other conditions, and if anarchists had more influence, we could form independent units against both warring factions.

Unarmed civilians have stopped bloodbaths in several places by moving in between the troops as human shields. If not for this kind of civil disobedience, a full-scale war would have been launched much earlier. We should support this movement, and attempt to direct it against both «federalist» and government troops simultaneously.

In case Russia reacts either by occupying parts of Eastern Ukraine or the country as a whole, we could take the example of anarchist partisans in World War II era France and Italy. Under such conditions, the main enemy is the occupying army, as it will antagonise the whole population very quickly. But it is also necessary to keep the maximum distance from the nationalistic elements of the resistance, as any alliance with them would hinder anarchists from realising their own program in the framework of the resistance.

The events in Odessa are a tragedy, and it is possible, that among those who died in the House of the Trade Unions were also people who played no part in flaring up the violence. People who threw molotov cocktails at the House should have understood the consequences. Even if the fire igniting was not solely due to them, it is not for lack of trying.

In case civil war spreads, these deaths are just the beginning. No doubt that on both sides the majority only wants a better life for their close ones and their motherland, and many hate governments and oligarchs to an equal extent. The more sincerely naïve people die, the greater the pressure to support one of the factions in the war, and we must struggle against this pressure.

Whereas it may occasionally be worth it to swallow tear gas or to feel the police baton for a bourgeois revolution, it makes no sense at all to die in a civil war between two equally bourgeois and nationalist sides. It would not be another Maidan but something completely ifferent. No blood, anarchist or otherwise, should spill due to this stupidity.

Antti Rautiainen
"If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything."
-Malcolm X
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