Libya, Syria And Now Ukraine - Color Revolution By Force

[seemslikeadream]

do I have to come up from the basement?

I don't like climbing stairs and Jeff won't put in an elevator

I'm looking at you AD

[American Dream]

To wit, you're either with us or you're against us. If you're agàinst what asshole A is doing you therefore worship asshole B.

If you think it's wrong and dangerous that Obama and the neocon gang are trying to provoke Russia into war, possibly risking WW3, and is supporting an evil neonazi cabal that is slaughtering thousands of innocent people then ... Automatically .... You think that Putin is a Saint.

If you hate white then you must be one of those people who worships black.

There is a kernel of a real insight here, but somehow twisted into its thought-stopping opposite.

What the Spanish Prisoner is criticizing is the sort of mindless adherence towards a view which lets Putin off the hook and encourages not only blind devotion to "his side" but, at its most extreme, a cult of the personality, an extremely misguided sort of hero worship of Vladimir fucking Putin and, in effect, of the policies of the Russian State in general- including the radical nationalists/fascists, spooks and military proxies, about whom RI readers would be expected to show much more critical consciousness.

Where's the nuance in all that?

[slimmouse]

]What the Spanish Prisoner is criticizing is the sort of mindless adherence towards a view which lets Putin off the hook and encourages not only blind devotion to "his side" but, at its most extreme, a cult of the personality, an extremely misguided sort of hero worship of Vladimir fucking Putin and, in effect, of the policies of the Russian State in general- including the radical nationalists/fascists, spooks and military proxies, about whom RI readers would be expected to show much more critical consciousness.

Where's the nuance in all that?

Ive just forgiven myself for giving it one last shot with you AD.

Bravo. That came across all loud, clear and logical.

[Searcher08]

To wit, you're either with us or you're against us. If you're agàinst what asshole A is doing you therefore worship asshole B.

If you think it's wrong and dangerous that Obama and the neocon gang are trying to provoke Russia into war, possibly risking WW3, and is supporting an evil neonazi cabal that is slaughtering thousands of innocent people then ... Automatically .... You think that Putin is a Saint.

If you hate white then you must be one of those people who worships black.

There is a kernel of a real insight here, but somehow twisted into its thought-stopping opposite.

What the Spanish Prisoner is criticizing is the sort of mindless adherence towards a view which lets Putin off the hook and encourages not only blind devotion to "his side" but, at its most extreme, a cult of the personality, an extremely misguided sort of hero worship of Vladimir fucking Putin and, in effect, of the policies of the Russian State in general- including the radical nationalists/fascists, spooks and military proxies, about whom RI readers would be expected to show much more critical consciousness.

Where's the nuance in all that?

No it frikken is not.

Putin is certainly a worthy subject for plenty of criticism.

What you are encountering is that the criticism YOU are providing of him is regarded by most everyone here as ton of poop. What do you expect, featuring dozens of posts from a Soros-funded, Soros-employed "Antifa" professional propagandist and your response to being reminded of that is determined shoe-gazing.

Your other CopyPasta "critiques" of Putin are at the level represented by Tony Greenstein, Conspirituality and Anton from Arsholovia, covering associational nonsense, sub-JREF reductionist lard and the neolib Israeli-Right connected "professional antifascists" echo-chamber respectively.

[American Dream]

Also relevant:


http://thespanishprisoner.com/2014/05/1 ... nterpunch/

Chicken Little Comes to CounterPunch

May 15, 2014


John Pilger

The May 14th edition of CounterPunch has an article by John Pilger with the ominous title of A World War is Beckoning. Pilger begins by asking a couple of rhetorical questions:

Why do we ­tolerate the threat of ­another world war in our name? Why do we allow lies that justify this risk?

Uh, maybe because there is no threat of another world war in our name? I suspect that isn’t the answer that Pilger wants to hear. Later on, he writes:

For the first time since the Reagan years, the US is ­threatening to take the world to war. With eastern Europe and the Balkans now military outposts of Nato, the last “buffer state” bordering Russia is being torn apart. We in the west are backing neo-Nazis in a country where Ukrainian Nazis backed Hitler.

Pilger needs to get a grip. Placing mild economic sanctions on Russia is not “threatening to take the world to war”.

Having masterminded the coup in February against the democratically elected government in Kiev, Washington’s planned seizure of Russia’s ­historic, legitimate warm-water naval base in Crimea failed.

There is evidence that the US has meddled in Ukraine’s internal affairs, but it doesn’t necessarily follow from this that the US “masterminded the coup in February”. And he offers no evidence for his amazing claim that US planned to seize Russia’s naval base in Crimea. This would have been an act of war, not to mention an incredibly stupid thing to do.

This is an example of the Chicken Little argument that has become popular among the Left in recent years. For the past three years some on the Left have been screaming that Obama wants to go to war with Syria, yet said war has failed to materialize. We need to try to understand what the people in power are actually trying to do, rather than just assume that they have the most evil intentions imaginable.

There is a good deal that the Obama administration can be criticized for in this situation. And too many people in the media have given Obama a pass on this. (Even worse, some of them have urged the president to “get tough” with Putin.) There needs to be a congressional investigation of the role that the State Department and the CIA have played in the recent events in Ukraine. I’m afraid, however, that this will probably never happen. (Because, you know, Benghazi is far more important.)

[seemslikeadream]

alright this is just too sweet to stay in the basement and miss out on


Also relevant:



now you're taking on Pilger!!....are you serious??......you can't be serious...you're just funnin' with us now...aren't you?...Did you and John have a lover's quarrel? Was it a bad break up?

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15921&p=299093&hilit=pilger#p299093

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25779&p=296642&hilit=pilger#p296642

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25033&p=283805&hilit=pilger#p283805

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23063&p=250820&hilit=pilger#p250820

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22783&p=246918&hilit=pilger#p246918

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22701&p=245859&hilit=pilger#p245859

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18357&p=191143&hilit=pilger#p191143

http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17749&p=186566&hilit=pilger#p186566

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17191&p=179353&hilit=pilger#p179353

http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9066&p=167228&hilit=pilger#p167228

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15921&p=163453&hilit=pilger#p163453

as your friend THE SPANISH PRISONER would say....YOU need to get a grip AD


looks like that chicken left a little egg on someone's face

[Joe Hillshoist]

I can remember Pilger saying some pretty dumbfuck things - I don't remember them offhand, just remember thinking "did he really just say that?" - that thing about the navy base seems quite silly, and imo extremely unlikely but not necessarily beyond the realms of possibility.

Searcher ...

What do you expect, featuring dozens of posts from a Soros-funded, Soros-employed "Antifa" professional propagandist and your response to being reminded of that is determined shoe-gazing.

And who would this "soros funded antifa" pro be?

[seemslikeadream]

I can remember Pilger saying some pretty dumbfuck things - I don't remember them offhand, just remember thinking "did he really just say that?" - that thing about the navy base seems quite silly, and imo extremely unlikely but not necessarily beyond the realms of possibility.

Searcher ...

What do you expect, featuring dozens of posts from a Soros-funded, Soros-employed "Antifa" professional propagandist and your response to being reminded of that is determined shoe-gazing.

And who would this "soros funded antifa" pro be?

But that's not the point of this ..is it? You haven't posted Pilger's stuff over and over again here... AD posted Pilger for years here and now cause he's on a tirade about CounterPunch being vile he's using Pilger as a whipping boy...AD NEVER had a problem with John Pilger in fact he seems quite fond of him....till now and he's just using it to piss on this thread

[Joe Hillshoist]

I wouldn't be surprised if i have posted Pilger a bit. I normally agree with him. But I thought that piece Pilger wrote - it was published all over the place, not just at counterpunch - was crap. Badly written, poorly argued. Like he churned it out for a market. A bit like what Paul Craig Roberts does all the time about everything.

[Sounder]

From SP….

For the past three years some on the Left have been screaming that Obama wants to go to war with Syria, yet said war has failed to materialize.

This sentence betrays the author’s bias. Are those ‘screamers’ wrong? Does Obama, proxy for deep state actors, read MIC and Wall Street, not want to ‘go to war’, not really ‘war’, more like desire for total devastation, as has already been done in Iraq, Libya, and Afghanistan?

yet said war has failed to materialize

Really? It’s amazing how many people can be killed with American armaments, without there being a ‘war’.

We need to try to understand what the people in power are actually trying to do, rather than just assume that they have the most evil intentions imaginable.

What an amazingly flaccid sentence. So what are the ‘people in power’ actually trying to do, bring peace and light to all mankind?

Finally, why do folk expect one person to be right about everything? Every person I know is right about some things and wrong about other things. I know of no exceptions, maybe it has something to do with being human.

However and perhaps only in my opinion, people that call for war, either explicitly or implicitly, are on the wrong side of humanity.

I will take the wrong thinking of the right side before the right thinking of the wrong side any day.

[Joe Hillshoist]

So what are the ‘people in power’ actually trying to do, bring peace and light to all mankind?

I dunno - you tell me.

[Sounder]

I dunno - you tell me.

Really? you must at least have an opinion.

You first.

[conniption]

The European Union vs. Russia: Talking Heads

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnJOsOzpz4k
VICE News

Published on Jan 14, 2015

VICE News and the New York Review of Books have partnered to create Talking Heads, a series about the big issues of the day as seen by the Review's distinguished contributors.

In this episode of Talking Heads, George Soros discusses his essay "A New Policy to Rescue Ukraine." Soros wrote the essay this month, calling on members of the European Union to behave as countries indirectly at war with Russia and to provide Ukraine with $50 billion to defend itself and kick-start political reforms. Russian President Vladimir Putin’s imperial ambition has unintentionally brought into being a new Ukraine that is adamantly opposed to endemic corruption and inefficient government. By offering assistance, Europe can foster an open society in Ukraine and protect itself from Russian aggression.

VICE News sat down with Soros to discuss why it is imperative that the EU wakes up and recognizes that the principles on which it was founded are at stake in Ukraine.

[Joe Hillshoist]

I dunno - you tell me.

Really? you must at least have an opinion.

You first.

You implied you knew. I have no idea. I don't think they do either.

The blind lead the blind lead the blind lead the blind...

[Sounder]

Sounder » 16 Jan 2015 21:25 wrote:

I dunno - you tell me.

Really? you must at least have an opinion.

You first.

You implied you knew. I have no idea. I don't think they do either.

The blind lead the blind lead the blind lead the blind...

That is a sensible enough opinion, but it doesn’t really address what they are trying to do, as even blind men try to have goals.

My opinion is that there is institutional memory of the value of imposing double binds on the general population. We become fools if we ‘believe’ and social outcasts when we choose not to believe. But more to the point of what the PTMB are trying to do; they are maintenance men for our dominant narrative, this vertical authority distribution system that provides the overweening, highbrow self-identity conceits of the plutocratic class.

This also provides the sensation of lots of leading, with very little vision as most folks imagination is used up in reacting rather than in creating. With a VADS the position rather than what one does, confers ones authority. So there are bound to be many examples of non-authentic expressions of authority leading to epidemics of eye-gouging.

In reference to the vid, I did not get very far into it, and have less and less interest in the details and personalities of deep state history. Still the people that do this kind of work do collectively provide a sort of picture, even when some conclusions, assumptions and ideology justifiably bring the fact value of other assertions into question.

It’s like when one reads a book, where the information is appreciated but the conclusions seem weak or not justified by the material of the book. The book might still be considered to be 'good'.

Thanks stillrobertpaulson for providing some details for perspective.