Why so silent on the huge elephant in the room?

[Luther Blissett]

I had quite literally never heard of CAFR before yesterday, and I have a pretty good recall. The whole concept was new to me.

[seemslikeadream]

What about when you go to a ball, you know, dancing.

What about when you just want to have a ball and there's someone always around to harsh your buzz?

[divideandconquer]

After 1998, the GASB noticed people were starting to look so they had to obfuscate the report. Disclosed gross standing balances became net balances, assets were transformed into liabilities, etc...in other words, you must now inspect the report much more carefully, reading all of the notes to get to truth.

If you want to find a CAFR, google "annual financial report" and whatever CAFR you're looking for, also in quotes.

For example: "annual financial report" "city of wilmington"

And if you need help understanding what's what, watch "Corporation Nation". Clint Richardson takes you through CAFR after CAFR after CAFR explaining every little detail.

[Grizzly]

Here's the fucking elephant...



Meanwhile:

The Directors Of The CIA, NSA And FBI Just Put On A Masterful Display Of Public Relations And Absolutely Nobody Bought It
http://americans.org/2015/09/11/the-dir ... bought-it/

Mossad
CIA
Fortune 500
MI-6
Wall Street
City of London
USSA Federal Reserve
Bank of England
ECB
EU government
NATO
Pentagon
IDF
Piscine
BND
CFR
Bilderberg Group
etc.

http://humansarefree.com/2015/02/the-ro ... .html#more

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=38803&p=562177&hilit=alice+in+wonderland#p562177

[BrandonD]

above top secret banned my posts on the CAFR.

That's a mighty odd data point. Huh.

Anyways, on a serious note, the only rules on this forum are posted here: http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/view ... =36&t=8705

(Helpfully enough, that whole section of the forum is located at the bottom of the sprawl. I don't blame anyone for not knowing.)

I, along with almost anyone else here, welcome discussions about accounting, infrastructure, and the boring details that make global power possible. I fail to understand how CAFR could be a controversial topic, as utterly as I fail to understand how this detail is the most important elephant in the room. It might be illuminating, or at least interesting, to play a parlor game where everyone states what their vote for that category would be.

Offhand, my vote would be a split between Carrying Capacity and Dunbar's Number.

What a great suggestion!

My vote for Most Important Elephant in the Room would be the limitations of language and its inability to properly convey human experience.

[Occult Means Hidden]

Seems like an accounting definition of ownership that divulges from a common understanding of ownership.

Suppose the government pays 100% of the wages of an individual. This is quite common. The individual then spends 50% of his wages on an asset. Say a vehicle. By "extension", it's government purchasing power. Same goes with the remainder of the individual's wages. Also the vehicle's seller earns cash, also by extension, from the government. There is sort of a one to one correspondence between government generated spending and economic activity that I think the CAFR attempts to capture through horrendous accounting. Not sure it's a conspiracy, but more of an opportunity to point out government's role in wealth generation.

[divideandconquer]

Seems like an accounting definition of ownership that divulges from a common understanding of ownership.

Suppose the government pays 100% of the wages of an individual. This is quite common. The individual then spends 50% of his wages on an asset. Say a vehicle. By "extension", it's government purchasing power. Same goes with the remainder of the individual's wages. Also the vehicle's seller earns cash, also by extension, from the government. There is sort of a one to one correspondence between government generated spending and economic activity that I think the CAFR attempts to capture through horrendous accounting. Not sure it's a conspiracy, but more of an opportunity to point out government's role in wealth generation.

I'm not sure I understand your point. From my understanding, the source of all government revenue is we the people through the legal practices or legalities that government's invented (new profit centers and autonomous agencies are created every day) to take every penny the people earn and bring it back into the government coffers where it has gradually been invested over the years to the point where they have controlling stock interest in everything
Here are a just a few:

taxation
tariffs,
debt,
tolls,
fines,
levies,
fees,
dues,
duties,
orders,
finance charges,
excises,
audits,
permits,
licenses,
contracts,
legalities,
acts,
rules,
regulations,
restrictions,
requirements,
requisites,
prerequisites,
post-requisites,
documentation,
obligations,
restraints,
constraints,
options,
conditions,
causes,
tenure,
status,
etiquette,
posted limit,
speed limit,
size limits,
weight limits,
close circuit TV,
red light cameras my kids get these as they seem to travel in areas where these cameras are prevalent, mostly unjustified...absence of sign indicating no right turn on red light, and in another case, automated toll booth in disrepair, etc.
citations,
tickets,
quotas,
equal opportunity,
sign signals,
boundaries,
borders,
fences,
zones,
zoning associations,
directives,
mandates,
sanctions,
liabilities,
requisitions,
confiscation,
eminent domain,
restraint,
restraining orders,
position,
possession,
ownership,
law suits,
jail,
detention,
rendition,
custody,
customs,
confinement,
captivity,
incarceration,
arrest,
warrants,
required insurance,
prescriptions,
referrals,
waiting lists,
denial of care,
free speech zones,
terrorist watch lists,
no-fly lists....

The existence of the CAFR is not the issue. The issue is that 99.9% of the public have no idea what it is...even the most highly educated have no clue. Not to mention, the effort to obfuscate, complicate, muddle the report since 1998 when a miniscule percentage of the population started to discover its existence.

[Occult Means Hidden]

into the government coffers where it has gradually been invested over the years to the point where they have controlling stock interest in everything

Same could be said for banks and their network of investment firms. They even have a CAFR-like bombshell of immense proportions that is difficult for the common (wo)man to understand. Derivatives,- which some estimate at $700 trillion.

There's a $700 trillion elephant in the room and it's time we found out how much it really weighs on the economy.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-70 ... oom-theres

So which is it? The government elephant or the private elephant? Is it one elephant hiding out the other? Imagine all the governments investing instead of spending? Shoot, the interest made on investment income would be enough to wipe out the need for taxes forever! I guess that's why governments don't invest in this way!

My point is CAFRs are little known and obfuscated on purpose to delegitimize government effect on economic activity and banks 'loan so as to own' from fictitious money and we should direct our suspicions in that direction.

[PufPuf93]

above top secret banned my posts on the CAFR.

That's a mighty odd data point. Huh.

Anyways, on a serious note, the only rules on this forum are posted here: http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/view ... =36&t=8705

(Helpfully enough, that whole section of the forum is located at the bottom of the sprawl. I don't blame anyone for not knowing.)

I, along with almost anyone else here, welcome discussions about accounting, infrastructure, and the boring details that make global power possible. I fail to understand how CAFR could be a controversial topic, as utterly as I fail to understand how this detail is the most important elephant in the room. It might be illuminating, or at least interesting, to play a parlor game where everyone states what their vote for that category would be.

Offhand, my vote would be a split between Carrying Capacity and Dunbar's Number.

What a great suggestion!

My vote for Most Important Elephant in the Room would be the limitations of language and its inability to properly convey human experience.

I thought WR was correct in what is bolded above and was glad to see some ecological concepts offered.

So I was a wanker and typed about ecology and the futility of human system "artifacts"; the elephant is humanity's dysfunction with nature. Given there is a human-caused extinction event in progress, human actions and institutions would best focus on fitting into the unfolding patterns of nature rather than continued dominance. A greatly reduced population and ecological footprint regardless of the human "artifacts" will occur. By "artifacts" I mean political or economic or accounting or philosophy or so on. Arguing about the "artifacts" gets us no where. Look how fucked up things are and projections about the future?

Respectfully, improved human communications sounds good but in the wrong direction, more rather than less human-centric. One could argue improved communication reduces the ecological vigor of humanity by less variation to respond to stressors. If humanity gets another chance, the nadir may be back to the caves or trees without technology, grand ideas, or robust language.

Obviously, I am not a purist because I am interested in politics and economics and so on; but there is a deeper level of understanding to be found in ecology of the natural world.

If humanity destroys their own habitat, nature abides.

[divideandconquer]

into the government coffers where it has gradually been invested over the years to the point where they have controlling stock interest in everything

Same could be said for banks and their network of investment firms. They even have a CAFR-like bombshell of immense proportions that is difficult for the common (wo)man to understand. Derivatives,- which some estimate at $700 trillion.

There's a $700 trillion elephant in the room and it's time we found out how much it really weighs on the economy.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-70 ... oom-theres

So which is it? The government elephant or the private elephant? Is it one elephant hiding out the other? Imagine all the governments investing instead of spending? Shoot, the interest made on investment income would be enough to wipe out the need for taxes forever! I guess that's why governments don't invest in this way!

My point is CAFRs are little known and obfuscated on purpose to delegitimize government effect on economic activity and banks 'loan so as to own' from fictitious money and we should direct our suspicions in that direction.

The big secret is not the banks. Everyone knows about the banksters. But who enables the banks? Who creates the legislation that allows the banks to do what they do. The banksters are the lions. Governments are those who deliberately open the cage doors.

No, the big secret is that the government truly owns EVERYTHING by investment, but through walls of well masked corporate veils created over the decades, that fact's been hidden in plain sight.

Corporate governance is not that the corporations run the government. It's that the United States is the monolithic corporation with its 230,000 “governments”--increased from 184,000 in 2007--within that through investment funds and pension funds and other funds across the country have collectively controlling stock ownership in most if not all private corporations...Fortune 500 corporations and international corporations around the world. And with that controlling stock it votes through proxy as a major shareholder on all of these issues regarding corporate governance from corporate takeovers to mergers and acquisitions, stock splits, option plans, voting for the board of directors, which in turn votes for the CEO of the company and other corporate governance issues.

Don't get me wrong. The governments and corporations work hand in hand. We all know about the revolving door. But the banks and corporations are not in charge. That's only what they want you to think. No matter what people like Ron Paul tell you, the Federal Reserve IS audited. Just look up the CAFR.

Once again, everyone talks about the "private elephant" (corporations and banks). However, there is a "private elephant" that is not discussed, and that's the 100% private associations with government sounding acronyms like the Government Financial Officers Association and Government Accounting Standards Board which the government depends upon to give them plausible deniability. The government creates these private associations and then they join as members, handing over the rights to the associations to call the policy and guidelines for government to follow. This way they can circumvent the constitutional, bill of rights, etc. by claiming they were only following the advice of these "experts".

[Occult Means Hidden]

The big secret is not the banks. Everyone knows about the banksters. But who enables the banks? Who creates the legislation that allows the banks to do what they do. The banksters are the lions. Governments are those who deliberately open the cage doors.

The big secret is not the government. Everyone knows about the corrupt government. But who enables the politicians? Who funds the campaigns that allows the politicians to do what they do? The politicians are the lions. The banksters are those who deliberately open the cage doors.

I write this not to be snarky. I write this because honestly, one can easily make the same argument vice-versa and have reams of financial data to support it. It's not government or the private sector necessarily but both in concert, sure... Each organization is a hierarchy so it isn't mutually exclusive either way.

But I do know that in government the turnover is 100% while in the private sector, ownership can linger for generations in families. Planning a conspiracy requires job security.

[coffin_dodger]

OMH:

The big secret is not the government. Everyone knows about the corrupt government. But who enables the politicians? Who creates the legislation that allows the governments to do what they do? The politicians are the lions. The banksters are those who deliberately open the cage doors.

Yep. That boring old saying 'those who controls the money control everything' or words to that effect, that is so mocked as defamatory or racist, is so devastatingly honest that every effort is made to obfuscate and demonise the very thought of, or muttering of, the words.

[divideandconquer]

The big secret is not the banks. Everyone knows about the banksters. But who enables the banks? Who creates the legislation that allows the banks to do what they do. The banksters are the lions. Governments are those who deliberately open the cage doors.

The big secret is not the government. Everyone knows about the corrupt government. But who enables the politicians? Who funds the campaigns that allows the politicians to do what they do? The politicians are the lions. The banksters are those who deliberately open the cage doors.

I write this not to be snarky. I write this because honestly, one can easily make the same argument vice-versa and have reams of financial data to support it. It's not government or the private sector necessarily but both in concert, sure... Each organization is a hierarchy so it isn't mutually exclusive either way.

But I do know that in government the turnover is 100% while in the private sector, ownership can linger for generations in families. Planning a conspiracy requires job security.

Like the Bush family, right? Yeah, at the lower levels the turnover is great. In fact, I'm of the belief, having worked for government and knowing many people who have and still do, that governments encourage turnover at the lower levels probably to avoid the possibility of people figuring things out...but at the very top, not so much.

Of course, psychopathic corporations and banks are not victims of the government and like I stated before, they do work hand in hand. However, I think it's important to understand the true dynamics of the relationship between the public and private sectors.

Here's the thing. The financial reports of corporations and banks are out there for everyone to see. We know that most of the Fortune 500 do not pay taxes and we know banks and corporations are only interested in profit and power, but although we admit certain--maybe even most --politicians are corrupt, most still trust that the government is working on behalf of the public, or at least more than the corporations and banks are when that is simply not true. If you researched the CAFR, and look at total composites of revenue, and compare it to the private sector, you will see that government is substantially bigger.

When you look at, let's say, Xerox, IBM, you will see that the primary owners are government composite funds...listed as "institutional funds"...that is the government in most cases. If the government owns 75% of IBM, who is in control? And that's true of every major corporation, bank, etc.

For instance, take the state of New Jersey. How many people know that in 1989 (when the CAFR was much easier to read) the state had $70 billion in common stock ownership. Just imagine what that total is today! It's not included in the financial report the public sees. It's not reported in newspapers, radio or TV. Most people don't even know that their state, city, or county or federal government possess common stock, let alone in amounts totaling in the billions and trillions. It's our money, so why don't we know?

[Occult Means Hidden]

For instance, take the state of New Jersey. How many people know that in 1989 (when the CAFR was much easier to read) the state had $70 billion in common stock ownership.

Is that direct ownership or indirect "ownership" through pension funds? Bingo.

Here's the thing. The financial reports of corporations and banks are out there for everyone to see.

So are the CAFRs. I'm looking at one from the City of Wilmington, N.C. for 2013 now. I've Googled it. Some of the nefarious assets the city owns, over 40% of assets is roads - page 162. The CAFR considers these assets as an investment.

Where is the meat and potatoes here? Page 187? Total assets of all taxable property? $14billion Looks about right considering all taxable property includes the property that isn't government owned.

Where's the smoking gun in this document? Honest question.

Your first post of this thread you stated that CAFRs are meant to extract wealth. Extract it and put it where, to whom and for who's benefit? If it is just to extract so as not to be used, then that's money that politicians are aware of and consent to allow to sit idle. I've never seen a group of politicians just sit on public money without spending it. I've also never seen evidence of a group of politicians conspire every 2 to 4 years, from one elected body to the next, to hide this same exact pot of money. Thousands of elected officials and so few whistleblowers?... I've seen politicians conspire to steal public money. Is that what the CAFR business is about? If so, I guess banks would be a swell source to launder through.

[Occult Means Hidden]

Update (from 2008) on the New Jersey pension fund: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008/1 ... octob.html

New Jersey even has a Director of the state's Division of Investments and a State Investment Council. I guess the state of New Jersey isn't even hiding the fact that they have investments. Not very coherent for a well oiled conspiracy.