Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby brekin » Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:16 am

Image

Well, all fascinating stuff about the lone songman. I haven't had time to plow through all of it but wouldn't it be ironic if Cohen and Dylan were spies in the house of love? I mean in Jeff Well's house here, ironic no? I loved how Jeff always started a post with a Cohen or Dylan quote. Anyways, my take. It seems Cohen could be in deep. Sure, why not. That would just be too delicious. But I also wonder if Mrs. Diamond isn't just going the Whitley Strieber route? You know write some edge fiction, it sells so-so, write a personal revelatory expose of high weirdness and suddenly you tap into a bigger pool of readers. I mean lets be honest, we wouldn't be discussing her if she stopped at A Nun's Diary.

Just a little interesting her career output as a creative fiction writer. It pays to remember MKULTRA memoirs is basically a genre now. Also, if you talk to a lot of "creative writers" these days you get some pretty interesting post-modern porous takes on just what is "reality" and what is "fantasy", or what use to be called fact and fiction.

I know some people will throw me in the deniers camp, silencing the victim, etc. by just bringing up a modicum of considering the source and their motivations. But you know I loved Jerzy Kosinski's The Painted Bird, but when he got busted for it allegedly saying it was autobiographical, that's just the brakes of the reality test. It seems Ann makes a living teaching creative writing and improving peoples stories, I think that is something to keep in mind.

Also, I'm a mild, sporadic Cohen fan but if it were true it wouldn't kill me. In fact, this sounds like something that would really be more of an upper for serious Cohen fans. A new Deep State decoder ring to parse his songs with. Like Nick Cave really being a vampire or something.

Anyways, from her own website and some writers one:

Ann Diamond

Ann Diamond, poet, short-story writer, novelist (b at Montréal, Qué 11 April 1951). Ann Diamond earned a BA at Concordia University and studied created writing at Goddard College. She published her first book of poems, Lil, in 1977.
Diamond, Ann

Ann Diamond, poet, short-story writer, novelist (b at Montréal, Qué 11 April 1951). Ann Diamond earned a BA at Concordia University and studied created writing at Goddard College. She published her first book of poems, Lil, in 1977. Her other poetry collections include A Nun's Diary (1984), a series of prose poems that explore a nun's marriage to God and the relationship between sexuality and spirituality. ROBERT LEPAGE wrote a stage adaptation of A Nun's Diary, titled Echo, which premiered in Montréal in 1989. The poems in Diamond's Terrorist Letters (1992) offer a wide-ranging critique of Western society.

Ann Diamond also writes fiction. Mona's Dance (1988), a novel narrated by a female writer, fantastically recounts the picaresque adventures of a group of eccentrics living in a Montréal neighbourhood. Her distinctive narrative blurring of realism and surrealism is also evident in her short stories, collected in Snakebite (1989) and Evil Eye (1994), which often feature female characters burdened by painful relationships. Evil Eye won the Hugh MacLennan Prize for Fiction. Diamond's 2000 novel, Dead White Males, is a surreal detective story. A mysterious atmosphere also pervades in Static Control (2005), in which the young protagonist searches for her estranged father and answers to her mother's death.

In her 2006 memoir, My Cold War (republished in 2008 under the title A Certain Girl), Ann Diamond recounts her childhood experiences in Montréal as an unwitting participant in secret mind-control experiments, allegedly sponsored by the American CIA.


Ann Diamond - Freelance writer and editor
Writer, editor, writing coach

Ann Diamond was born in the Week of the Pioneer, on the Day of the Inspirer. She has been helping writers shape stories ever since she can remember, which is a long time.Always a believer in stories as vehicles of awareness and transformation, late in life Ann discovered she really does believe in classical structure, and set about to find out how to go about adapting the ancient principles of drama to a post-modern imagination.

In 1998, she began a successful workshop series called 'Unlocking Your Stories'.
Ann Diamond and her brother in My Cold War
My Cold War
by Ann Diamond
Ann Diamond's terrifying tale of growing up in Canada during the Cold War - an era when secrecy ran rampant, ruining careers and lives.

Ann Diamond has taught creative writing (fiction, poetry and drama) at Concordia University and University College of the Cariboo (now Thompson Rivers University).
Lately she has been living on a trapeze between Greece and Canada.
There's a lot more to her story, of course, but she's interested in hearing about yours.


SPIRIT ED IT/OR...

Individual and/or group coaching for writers of memoirs, stories, plays, novels or any writing that runs, walks or crawls in a narrative way.

My particular interest lies in dramatic structure. Order out of chaos! Structure is a writer's friend, and a dynamic tool for unlocking the power of narrative. I like to ask questions that stimulate writers to see their work afresh.
One of my sub-personalities is a shaman whose deep mission is liberating stories from the world of the unconscious where they often lie dormant. I like to think I have an intuitive gift for sensing a story, even in the embryonic stages, and for midwifery, in terms of helping writers take hold of difficult, even traumatic, material and moving it on towards publication if that's what the writer wants.

Another part of me is a medicine woman manquée who sees writing and storytelling as fundamental to human life, invaluable paths of healing and integration, in our possibly endless journey toward self-understanding. When we write stories, we are hunter-gatherers in the wild, planting and propagating inner truth. We stumble on resources we didn't know we had, and make discoveries that sometimes result in works of art.

In writing, as in snorkelling, one should never wear a life jacket! Be a mermaid! Dive deep, with or without a mask.
I enjoy working with writers at all stages of the creative process, from journaling to the final edit.


http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/e ... n-diamond/
http://www.anndiamond.net/Ann%20Diamond ... editor.htm
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby tapitsbo » Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:27 am

If it's all fiction it's a really nasty smear on Cohen.

My intuition is that it may be dramatized and embellished but there's something there, nonetheless.

The stuff about "eugenics" hits pretty close to the core of what a LOT of high weirdness is inevitably related to, doesn't it? The programming kept secret within cult families, the mystery of what human beings "are", etc.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby guruilla » Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:12 am

brekin » Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:16 am wrote:I also wonder if Mrs. Diamond isn't just going the Whitley Strieber route? You know write some edge fiction, it sells so-so, write a personal revelatory expose of high weirdness and suddenly you tap into a bigger pool of readers. I mean lets be honest, we wouldn't be discussing her if she stopped at A Nun's Diary.

Just a little interesting her career output as a creative fiction writer. It pays to remember MKULTRA memoirs is basically a genre now. Also, if you talk to a lot of "creative writers" these days you get some pretty interesting post-modern porous takes on just what is "reality" and what is "fantasy", or what use to be called fact and fiction.

I think it's fair to surmise there were hopes for Ann Diamond, as one of the traumatically engineered, to become a cultural mover & shaker a la Cohen or Strieber, and that as such she may have received some covert support in the early stages of her career. My guess is that she would acknowledge this, tho we haven't discussed it. If so, it's likely (or seems it to me) that at some point, or over a period, she proved she was not following the program, was in fact going against it, and all such support was withdrawn. She now struggles to support herself from day to day and doesn't have time to write, or so she has told me.

In other words, I think it's obvious that the suggestion she might have gone the Strieber route only holds water if she had been successful and influential as a writer, which clearly she has not.

All her more recent works are self-published on Lulu. That's a pretty far cry from Whitley's $1 million Communion advance, his many movie deals, and his current partnership with Jeffrey Kripal of Rice University & the Institute of Noetic Sciences, n'est pas?
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby brekin » Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:47 am

^Indeed. I should modify to say "trying to go the Whitley Strieber route". And not in the sense of possibly shopping for allegiance with some part of the ptb, but just maybe making some money off a taboo/fringe biopic. One other thing (and again I haven't been a careful reader on this thread, so apologies if this was covered or shown) it seems Diamond was a chum even confidant of sorts of Cohen at one period. Where are the hang out and party pics with old brown eyes? I mean people did that before instagram right? A pic wouldn't verify everything of course, but it would reinforce that she was actually in his scene on a personal level.
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby guruilla » Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:34 pm

Have you listened to the podcast? Having spoken to her for going on eight hours now, there's no doubt in my mind she is both sincere and sane. I did ask about photos, apparently there's one in a box somewhere. She said the only letter she ever got from Cohen was a postcard and it was typed, indicating how careful he was about leaving any evidence. She wasn't part of his circle and at a certain point (for a specific reason a bit to sensitive to go into here, and since Ann doesn't talk about it on the podcast), Cohen began to spread stories that she was a crazy person who was stalking him (and even that she had imagined knowing him(, and his regular circle took up the stories and created that narrative.

The same or similar happened with Kelley Lynch, apparently, who was his manager!
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby brekin » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:41 pm

guruilla » Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:34 am wrote:Have you listened to the podcast? Having spoken to her for going on eight hours now, there's no doubt in my mind she is both sincere and sane. I did ask about photos, apparently there's one in a box somewhere. She said the only letter she ever got from Cohen was a postcard and it was typed, indicating how careful he was about leaving any evidence. She wasn't part of his circle and at a certain point (for a specific reason a bit to sensitive to go into here, and since Ann doesn't talk about it on the podcast), Cohen began to spread stories that she was a crazy person who was stalking him (and even that she had imagined knowing him(, and his regular circle took up the stories and created that narrative.

The same or similar happened with Kelley Lynch, apparently, who was his manager!


Would you believe I have other things to do right now than listen to the podcast? I appreciate you taking the time to do it, sincerely, but people want compression, and a photo, recording, video or something in print by Cohen or others verifying what she's saying would go a long way. I know that is not always possible, but if I was hanging with Cohen on a Greek isle, I'd have a pic or two.

Also, public figures mix with all kinds of infamous figures. Musicians especially are prostitutes, your favorite band would probably play Pol Pot's birthday for $15,000. Being in unsavory milieus and on the periphery of heavy scenes doesn't make one a board member of the big grand conspiracy. Also, not doubting your veracity, but have you considered that most people consider themselves sincere and sane? I mean that is why some whoppers and their proponents are so compelling, because they truly believe them.

That reminds me of a story Kissinger was telling me, David Bowie, and Charles Manson right before the ritual sacrifice. Crazy night, I think I've got a photo of it, there's one in a box somewhere.

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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby convolvulaceae » Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:37 pm

brekin » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:41 pm
That reminds me of a story Kissinger was telling me, David Bowie, and Charles Manson right before the ritual sacrifice. Crazy night, I think I've got a photo of it, there's one in a box somewhere.



Now, that's a story I'd like to hear. I'm sure it'd be far more compelling than your analysis of Ann Diamonds material.

On the topic of ritual sacrifice:


YOUR HEART ( a poem by Leonard Cohen)

I told the truth
and look where it got me
I should have written about
the secret rivers
under Toronto
and the trials
of the Faculty Club
but no
I pulled the heart
out of a breast
and showed it to everyone
the names of G-d
engraved upon it
I'm sorry it was
your heart
and not mine
I had no heart worth the reading
but I had the knife
and the temple
O my love
don't you know that we have been killed
and that we died together


Here's a picture of the trials of the Faculty Club:
Image

Unfortunately my tight schedule didn't allow me time to photoshop the fairies in. I did find time for the podcast. It was great. Cheers Jasun and Ann.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby brekin » Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:24 pm

convolvulaceae » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:37 pm wrote:
brekin » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:41 pm
That reminds me of a story Kissinger was telling me, David Bowie, and Charles Manson right before the ritual sacrifice. Crazy night, I think I've got a photo of it, there's one in a box somewhere.



convolvulaceae wrote:
Now, that's a story I'd like to hear.


Don't worry I'm sure Ann will get to it next.

convolvulaceae wrote:
I'm sure it'd be far more compelling than your analysis of Ann Diamonds material.

Sure, but thats because I'm limited to just the facts. Fiction is usually more compelling.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby guruilla » Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:29 pm

@brekin

So let me get this straight: you don't have time to listen to a podcast, and you haven't read any of Diamond's books; but you have time to accuse her of lying, manipulating and exploiting others for financial gain, with nothing at all to back it up besides a hunch?

What happened to the "rigorous" part? :grumpy
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby brekin » Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:35 pm

guruilla » Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:29 pm wrote:@brekin

So let me get this straight: you don't have time to listen to a podcast, and you haven't read any of Diamond's books; but you have time to accuse her of lying, manipulating and exploiting others for financial gain, with nothing at all to back it up besides a hunch?

What happened to the "rigorous" part? :grumpy


I'm not going to spend a few days debunking David Icke either. There could be a chance Cohen is an operative, but I haven't seen a smoking gun, did I miss it?

How about this, guruilla, please tell me, with all the rigor you've done, you've interviewed her extensively, read her books I imagine to do so, look at the supplementary material, do you believe Leonard Cohen is an operative?

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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby guruilla » Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:39 pm

What difference does it make what I believe?

What's your purpose in asking the question or in posting at this thread, if you have already made up your mind?
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby tapitsbo » Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:07 pm

Regardless of Cohen's status as an operative, his centrality in the milieux where operatives operated makes me think his opinions on everything discussed with so much rigor and vigor in these parts would be most interesting, if it weren't for the gnomic, inscrutable shape his utterances persistently take :shrug:
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby brekin » Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:26 pm

guruilla » Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:39 pm wrote:What difference does it make what I believe?


I'd say it makes all the difference. As someone who started the thread, interviewed the author, read her books, supplemental material, etc you should have some opinion of belief at this point to the validity of the claim whether Leonard Cohen is an operative or not. As someone who has gone the distance, others who haven't (I) would benefit from your much more informed opinion to examine the matter closer. Unless, this has just all been an intellectual training exercise that shouldn't be taken seriously?

What's your purpose in asking the question or in posting at this thread, if you have already made up your mind?


My purpose is to discover the Truth. The thread title asks the question, "Leonard Cohen, Operative?" Well, I'm asking what is on the other side of the "?" at this point. I haven't made up my mind, but the claim is pretty large, so I'm going to need some large evidence or argument to convince me. So far, I'm not convinced, but I haven't dug in like others here who have. I'm just curious for those that have do they think he is? If so, great, what was the clincher? Show me, and I'm your man. If not, well then, why find any fault with questioning the evidence or those putting it out? Is it wrong to be critical of such claims? What if the thread was titled, "Wayne Newton, Operative?"

I don't see, how on one hand, its fine to just accuse Cohen of being an operative but questioning the the writer and her motives suddenly is bad form. I mean, this is coming from the guy who started the Joseph Campbell Anti-Semite thread. I don't have time for heroes, and if Cohen is a spook, great, but lets see some evidence. I ain't got time for fairy stories.

So far, my sense is the answer is, "maybe, maybe not", which is probably what we'd come to with Wayne Newton to.

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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby guruilla » Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:47 pm

brekin wrote:My purpose is to discover the Truth. The thread title asks the question, "Leonard Cohen, Operative?" Well, I'm asking what is on the other side of the "?" at this point. I haven't made up my mind, but the claim is pretty large, so I'm going to need some large evidence or argument to convince me. So far, I'm not convinced, but I haven't dug in like others here who have. I'm just curious for those that have do they think he is? If so, great, what was the clincher? Show me, and I'm your man. If not, well then, why find any fault with questioning the evidence or those putting it out? Is it wrong to be critical of such claims? What if the thread was titled, "Wayne Newton, Operative?"

I don't see, how on one hand, its fine to just accuse Cohen of being an operative but questioning the the writer and her motives suddenly is bad form. I mean, this is coming from the guy who started the Joseph Campbell Anti-Semite thread. I don't have time for heroes, and if Cohen is a spook, great, but lets see some evidence. I ain't got time for fairy stories.

My criticism is based on your own admission that you don't have time to look at the evidence, but you are willing to make accusations based mostly on speculation (unless you consider AD's bio evidence?). If your purpose is to discover the Truth, big T, I would have thought you would want to hear the evidence and reach your own conclusion, not ask what someone believes and then request to see the proverbial "smoking gun" that convinced them. There are a number of ways that doesn't work, as I'm guessing you've seen in your own experience.

I don't want to seem tricky or evasive, however, so here's a more direct answer: a) Yes, based on Ann Diamond's testimony, the evidence which she presents, and that which I have gathered since hearing her story, most of which is linked or pasted at this thread, I believe that Leonard Cohen was an operative, as well as a subject of MKULTRA mind control and part of a very large social engineering program that includes well-known cultural figures, artist-leaders such as Cohen; b) there is no "smoking gun" to bring forth that will convince any skeptic who is not willing to put in the necessary time to sift through the evidence themselves. As any detective will tell you, most of the time, it's about gathering evidence and arranging it in a coherent fashion until a picture emerges of what happened. It is more like a jigsaw puzzle than a damning piece of photographic evidence, and there isn't usually an Aha! moment that coincides with any ultimately conclusive piece of evidence, rather a slow accumulation of insights that finally add up to something like certainty. In other words, that last coincidence that breaks the spell of the cover-story is not going to be the same for anyone else. It's the process, the individual journey of uncovering, that leads to a breakthrough.

If cover stories could be blown up by simple evidence, the whole thing would have blown open a long time ago, surely?

If this was a trial, you'd be the equivalent of a jury member saying, "Can we skip all this boring discussion stuff and just hear what the prosecutor thinks and why, please?" But the summation speech is meaningless without the trial process that precedes it.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby brekin » Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:20 pm

guruilla » Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:47 pm wrote:
brekin wrote:My purpose is to discover the Truth. The thread title asks the question, "Leonard Cohen, Operative?" Well, I'm asking what is on the other side of the "?" at this point. I haven't made up my mind, but the claim is pretty large, so I'm going to need some large evidence or argument to convince me. So far, I'm not convinced, but I haven't dug in like others here who have. I'm just curious for those that have do they think he is? If so, great, what was the clincher? Show me, and I'm your man. If not, well then, why find any fault with questioning the evidence or those putting it out? Is it wrong to be critical of such claims? What if the thread was titled, "Wayne Newton, Operative?"

I don't see, how on one hand, its fine to just accuse Cohen of being an operative but questioning the the writer and her motives suddenly is bad form. I mean, this is coming from the guy who started the Joseph Campbell Anti-Semite thread. I don't have time for heroes, and if Cohen is a spook, great, but lets see some evidence. I ain't got time for fairy stories.

My criticism is based on your own admission that you don't have time to look at the evidence, but you are willing to make accusations based mostly on speculation (unless you consider AD's bio evidence?). If your purpose is to discover the Truth, big T, I would have thought you would want to hear the evidence and reach your own conclusion, not ask what someone believes and then request to see the proverbial "smoking gun" that convinced them. There are a number of ways that doesn't work, as I'm guessing you've seen in your own experience.

I don't want to seem tricky or evasive, however, so here's a more direct answer: a) Yes, based on Ann Diamond's testimony, the evidence which she presents, and that which I have gathered since hearing her story, most of which is linked or pasted at this thread, I believe that Leonard Cohen was an operative, as well as a subject of MKULTRA mind control and part of a very large social engineering program that includes well-known cultural figures, artist-leaders such as Cohen; b) there is no "smoking gun" to bring forth that will convince any skeptic who is not willing to put in the necessary time to sift through the evidence themselves. As any detective will tell you, most of the time, it's about gathering evidence and arranging it in a coherent fashion until a picture emerges of what happened. It is more like a jigsaw puzzle than a damning piece of photographic evidence, and there isn't usually an Aha! moment that coincides with any ultimately conclusive piece of evidence, rather a slow accumulation of insights that finally add up to something like certainty. In other words, that last coincidence that breaks the spell of the cover-story is not going to be the same for anyone else. It's the process, the individual journey of uncovering, that leads to a breakthrough.

If cover stories could be blown up by simple evidence, the whole thing would have blown open a long time ago, surely?

If this was a trial, you'd be the equivalent of a jury member saying, "Can we skip all this boring discussion stuff and just hear what the prosecutor thinks and why, please?" But the summation speech is meaningless without the trial process that precedes it.


Thank you. See that wasn't so hard. You think he was (no "is", but I quibble) an Operative. Great. I'm going to have to review the evidence in the thread. But so far, it is hard going and more than a little hard to fathom/believe. Take this section for example, here we have all of Cohen:
1. Famous Singer/songwriter 2. On Location Snuff Film Producer 3. Child Abuser (postponed) 4. Executioner (unwilling) 5. Incurable Romantic (always).

The only crime he doesn't commit in this section is tax evasion. See the thing is, if Cohen was like this, lets just say he is, would he make a good operative? Wouldn't he be a liability really instead? We have Cohen (probably in his famous blue raincoat) busting into a guy's apartment to film a gang rape/murder. Wouldn't this attract some attention in a Denver apartment complex? I mean Cohen is no John Denver but wouldn't the people in 2A or 2B notice the semi-famous singer songwriter and his wrecking crew?

Wouldn't such a thing happen instead in some private home in a secluded controlled area? Wouldn't the number of people be kept to a minimum, Cohen's presence concealed as much as possible? But that wouldn't be as dramatic would it? I mean I could go on, but I think you get my gist.

Diana’s life parallels my own. We both met Leonard when
we were children, through the classified mind control project
known as MKULTRA. As children, both of us were placed in a
special program for psychically gifted children. Diana’s secret career
in the military began on bases in New Brunswick. Later, she says,
her mother moved to Montreal and worked for the Cohen family as
a domestic. At 18, at Expo 67, someone introduced her to Leonard,
then a rising star and darling of Canadian media. She went on to
have a brief career in regional television, back in New Brunswick.
By the mid-70s, she had met a number of people in the
entertainment business, including John Lennon and Yoko Ono, at
whose suggestion she moved to in Denver, CO, and got involved in
Primal Scream Therapy. Her therapy sessions were unearthing early
childhood memories including sexual abuse and military
programming.

In early September of 1979, just after the summer on
Hydra, around the time I returned to Canada from Germany after
saying goodbye to Annu, Diana claims she met Leonard in Denver
where he performed in a small club. She doesn’t remember the
name of the club, only that man suggested she come to the concert.
Later, Leonard would claim it was love at first sight.
Here is where it gets terribly interesting, or just plain
terrible. Soon afterwards, another man asked Diana out on a date,
took her back to his place, and assaulted her. In the midst of this
violent rape, the door to the apartment burst open, and Leonard
Cohen walked in with a camera crew. The men began filming a
scene that quickly turned into a gang rape. Then she says, Leonard
held a gun to her head. “You like to be hurt, don’t you? Say it!”
Another man pulled out a pile of bills and told Leonard to “snuff
her.” As she was crying and pleading for her life, a little girl was
brought in. Leonard told them to “get her out of here – and bring
her to me later.”


It had to have all been planned beforehand, with Diana the
chosen victim. Snuff films brought in tens of thousands, and
Leonard in those days was short of cash. One of his Montreal
contacts, involved in the pornography business, had been on Hydra
a few weeks earlier, but mysteriously vanished at around the time
she encountered the film crew in the Denver apartment.
Leonard refused to pull the trigger. He told the crew to
leave, and take the child with them. He and Diana were left alone to
spend the night together. They fell in love.
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