Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby lunarmoth » Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:01 am

AD here. I completely agree with Identity about the need for editing. On the other hand, as I keep saying, The Man Next Door is a memoir. That implies a need to be honest. At 28, a woman is often hormonally driven and easily confused by personal issues, peculiar dreams etc. You may have heard of something called "feminine intuition" or perhaps you've listened in when women get together for coffee and chat about their lives. Nowadays no one would argue that women should be seen and not heard - however Leonard did tell me that the first time we met. Not something i could repeat to by feminist cronies, but in my life, curiosity often has trumped ideology.

As for the "light babies" - have you ever seen one? They are hard to forget if you have. In the final chapter of TMND, my informant "Diana" mentions creating them with her hands on the same night she claims Leonard began composing Hallelujah.

If you were to sit down for a chat with anyone who actually knew Leonard in those days, and before and after, you would hear many strange stories. Stories are raw material: they are not the same as critical analysis. Yet you can't just dismiss all the storytellers on the grounds that they are talking about events you never experienced because you weren't there. The holocaust springs to mind... many who weren't in it have always denied it.

This discussion is very interesting. Maybe someone will send me that mysterious pm so I can deconstruct it?
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby brekin » Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:23 pm

lunarmoth wrote:AD here. I completely agree with Identity about the need for editing. On the other hand, as I keep saying, The Man Next Door is a memoir. That implies a need to be honest. At 28, a woman is often hormonally driven and easily confused by personal issues, peculiar dreams etc. You may have heard of something called "feminine intuition" or perhaps you've listened in when women get together for coffee and chat about their lives. Nowadays no one would argue that women should be seen and not heard - however Leonard did tell me that the first time we met. Not something i could repeat to by feminist cronies, but in my life, curiosity often has trumped ideology.

As for the "light babies" - have you ever seen one? They are hard to forget if you have. In the final chapter of TMND, my informant "Diana" mentions creating them with her hands on the same night she claims Leonard began composing Hallelujah.

If you were to sit down for a chat with anyone who actually knew Leonard in those days, and before and after, you would hear many strange stories. Stories are raw material: they are not the same as critical analysis. Yet you can't just dismiss all the storytellers on the grounds that they are talking about events you never experienced because you weren't there. The holocaust springs to mind... many who weren't in it have always denied it.

This discussion is very interesting. Maybe someone will send me that mysterious pm so I can deconstruct it?


Why hello, AD! Thanks for making an appearance. I'm less concerned about the psychic/dream things, although that can be a problem for factual minded combing. I just had two questions, if you don't mind, (and apologies I'm only a 1/3 through the book) but is there any archival print evidence of Cohen's, yours, Hertz's time at McGill as subjects? Also, that photo of the person that is in the blind fold that is supposedly Cohen as a teen. What proof do we have that is really him?

I'd rather not send the pm as the person was nice enough to reply and I didn't say anything about publishing it. guruilla can vouch for its authenticity and I've shown it to one other RI member. Maybe if you send me a photo of you and Leonard we can trade? :hug1:
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby lunarmoth » Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:23 pm

The only existing photo of Leonard and me that i know of was taken by Hazel Field in 1978 at Night Magic bar in Old Montreal. Perhaps it still exists.and maybe she can help you to locate it. I do have a couple of photos I took of Leonard on the beach in Hydra in the summer of 1979. They're currently in an album buried in my storage space.

As for "archival evidence" that Cohen and Hertz were in MKULTRA experiments: good luck with that. McGill destroyed or hid all files relating to illegal human experimentation after the publication of John Marks' THE MAKING OF THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE exposing Dr. Cameron's CIA-funded work at the Allan Memorial.

It's also worth noting that Cameron used drugs, hypnosis and electroshock to erase all memory in his subjects of their involvement. The whole purpose of a Manchurian Candidate is to carry out programmed commands, followed by total amnesia. This does not mean MKULTRA is some flimsy "conspiracy theory" -- in fact it's backed up by thousands of pages of declassified documents including financial statements, research proposals etc which are on file at at George Washington University. I have been through the files relating to Cameron's notorious subproject 68 - no photos of Leonard in there either.

Early in 1982 Leonard took me to visit his former McGill law professor Frank ascott in Montreal. Scott was outed as having worked for the CIA by his son, Peter Dale Scott. After that visit, Leonard asked me if I had ever been in flotation tanks on LSD, and went on to tell me about his experiences in that area. He was 17, a McGill undergraduate in 1951 when the photo was taken of the candidate in the Hebb experiment that involved sensory isolation. John Lilly was a colleague of Hebb and visited him in 1956. Lilly's first book, PROGRAMMING AND REPROGRAMMING THE HUMAN BIO-COMPUTER has a section discussing what happens when children are given LSD - which was one of Dr. Cameron's projects at the time. All these scientists had CIA clearance and obviously knew one another.

And the man in the photo from 1951 certainly looks like a 17 year old Leonard Cohen. Of course, it might not be him. But the tie is pretty characteristic, dont you agree? Who wears a tie to a torture session?
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby lunarmoth » Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:34 pm

Re: trading photos. I have one of Hazel Field from 2010 seated at a meeting next to Montreal psychiatrist Mark Roper, son of Dr Peter Roper, who was a colleague/disciple of Cameron and continued his "depatterning" techniques even after they were discredited. Following in his father's footsteps, Mark Roper continues to do classified work for the military and aerospace industry.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby brekin » Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:21 pm

Well, I guess we've learned who can't keep a secret on the forum haven't we?

For the record, I don't doubt there was a MKULTRA project. Tweezing out who was involved, to what degree, and what the repercussions were is a whole different ball of wax.

And the man in the photo from 1951 certainly looks like a 17 year old Leonard Cohen. Of course, it might not be him. But the tie is pretty characteristic, dont you agree? Who wears a tie to a torture session?


Of course, it might not be him. That is a bit different from saying this is Leonard Cohen, undergoing a MKULTRA experiment in 1951 under the auspices of Dr. so and so. In 1951, I'd assume many young men, probably most from certain backgrounds, would wear a tie to an appointment. Since we have no way of knowing if this is LC, then I don't think it makes sense to say or even imply this is LC, judging from the nose and tie adornment, we could be looking at a young Dustin Hoffman for all we know.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby guruilla » Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:28 pm

Image
The Cohens of McGill

BY JIM HYNES | Dr. Robin Cohen's ties to McGill go back, waaaaaaay back. Her family's McGill links can be traced to the 1920s and her grandfather, Hyman Cohen, who, though he didn't earn a degree, took an economics course taught by none other than Stephen Leacock.

Since that time, one Cohen offspring after another has walked through the Roddick Gates in search of higher education and a degree, or three.

Avrum Cohen followed his father Hyman's first steps on campus, earning a BA in 1953 and a law degree in 1956. Back in the days when the position came with a room adjacent to its offices in what is now the Redpath Museum, the future lawyer served as President of the McGill Students' Society. He was also part of McGill's Debating Union Society, teaming up in 1956 with an unrelated Leonard Cohen (yes, that Leonard Cohen) for a debating contest tour that included a loss to a team of inmates from the penitentiary where one debate was held. Avrum Cohen later married Robin's mother, Barbara, who earned a Diploma in Teaching – at McGill, of course.

Robin Cohen herself, today the Research Director of the Division of Palliative Care at McGill's Departments of Oncology and Medicine, followed her dad to McGill in the late 1970s, graduating with a BSc in 1981, a Master's in 1983 and a PhD in Psychology in 1986. Her twin boys were born just before she completed her doctorate.

Now the next generation of Cohen offspring to attend McGill is getting ready for the coming convocation ceremonies. Dr. Cohen's sons and stepson will each be earning a degree this year. Twenty-two-year-old twins Jordan and Ari Steiner, whose father is Dr. Warren Steiner, Psychiatrist-in-Chief at the MUHC, will graduate with a BComm and BA, respectively, while Dr. Cohen's stepson, 27-year-old Joshua Schwartz, will graduate with a PhD in Electrical Engineering. Joshua recently received news that he will be awarded McGill's Governor General's Gold Medal for Natural Sciences – news that has made a proud McGill mom beam with greater pride.

"As we say in Yiddish, the whole family is 'shepping naches' (getting pleasure plus pride) from our kids…as always!" Dr. Cohen said.
https://www.mcgill.ca/reporter/40/17/cohen/
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby guruilla » Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:30 pm

brekin » Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:21 pm wrote:Well, I guess we've learned who can't keep a secret on the forum haven't we?

Not sure how serious you are. Here was your original stipulation:

I didn't ask for permission to publish so if you talk about it here please don't name names.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby backtoiam » Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:30 pm

The secret is safe,(from me anyway) because I didn't catch it.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby brekin » Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:43 pm

guruilla » Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:30 pm wrote:
brekin » Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:21 pm wrote:Well, I guess we've learned who can't keep a secret on the forum haven't we?

Not sure how serious you are. Here was your original stipulation:

I didn't ask for permission to publish so if you talk about it here please don't name names.


It is obvious you at least shared the name (named the name) of the person with AD, who then spilled it into cyberspace. Should I have clarified what I meant? To me it seems pretty transparent. And is that how you wash your hands? By proxy? I wouldn't be surprised if you probably even went one step forward and did the same with the email I shared with you which had the name of the person (among other things) we were talking about. That goes way beyond my original stipulation, which was a basic common sense one, and is dirty pool old man. There were many reasons I didn't want a name or private correspondence shared and with various people. (Such as, you know them then being disparaged and maligned on the internet.) To do so, after I asked you not to, is unethical. Not only will you not be getting a Christmas card this year but its obvious you can't be trusted in any capacity in the coming Enlightenment.

As far as the above about McGill and the Cohens. This conclusively proves he was a student at McGill, I guess, which I don't think was ever under question. Or are we to match his tie in this picture with the other picture? Because I'd say its more likely Av Cohen's tie in both. Maybe even nose and lips.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby guruilla » Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:56 pm

brekin » Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:43 pm wrote:It is obvious you at least shared the name (named the name) of the person with AD, who then spilled it into cyberspace. Should I have clarified what I meant?

Obviously you should have.

In fact the only way someone could deduce the "name" is because you threw a hissy fit about it here on this thread. Had you kept quiet or PM-ed me there would be nothing on this thread to indicate anything about the identity of your correspondent.

If you didn't want me to share it with anyone, you needed to be clear about that. It's true I could have been more clear with AD (who was understandably curious), or simply referred her to you, but since you never stipulated anything besides not mentioning the name on this board I saw no reason to be coy.

The picture wasn't meant to back any argument. It was just the latest thing that showed up in my inbox. You seem to be taking a defensive position when no one is attacking.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby Joao » Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:28 pm

lunarmoth » Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:23 am wrote:Lilly's first book, PROGRAMMING AND REPROGRAMMING THE HUMAN BIO-COMPUTER has a section discussing what happens when children are given LSD - which was one of Dr. Cameron's projects at the time.

What? It's been a while since I read Programming and Metaprogramming in the Human Biocomputer (which isn't his first book, BTW), but I don't recall anything along those lines. I own a copy and the complete text is online here. There are 49 instances of "child" but none of them appear to be about "what happens when children are given LSD."

And while I'm aware of allegations about Lilly and MK ULTRA (and it's not difficult to believe he could've been involved), what is the actual evidence? FWIW, Wikipedia editors consider the claim specious.

In full disclosure, I've been intrigued in the past by Ann Diamond's accounts of Mengele in North America and purchased of copy of My Cold War several years ago. I did not find that it presented conclusive evidence, however.

Also, digging that alleged photo out of storage would be a priority for me.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby lunarmoth » Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:04 pm

Dear Brekin
There were only two people it could have been. I had already pretty much guessed. So either you are a friend of hers, or she's following this thread. Sounds like (1) is more likely. But if she's reading this, maybe she can explain what she was doing sitting next to Mark Roper at the notorious Wednesday Night Club where globalists and their pshrinks gather (attention - Fabian alert)
Last edited by lunarmoth on Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby lunarmoth » Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:08 pm

Re: Lilly - have you read some of his later writings about aliens and programmed coincidences?
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby Joao » Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:10 pm

lunarmoth » Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:08 pm wrote:Re: Lilly - have you read some of his later writings about aliens and programmed coincidences?

Sure--Solid State Entities, ECCO and all that. A connection to dosing kids, Ewen Cameron, and MK ULTRA is not apparent to me.
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Re: Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

Postby lunarmoth » Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:23 pm

Well, you need to do more research. Lilly was hardly devoid of intelligence connections.
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