Which gender are you?

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Which gender are you?

Female
8
14%
Male
37
66%
Alchemical Androgyne
5
9%
None of your business
3
5%
It's complicated
1
2%
Other
2
4%
 
Total votes : 56

Re: Which gender are you?

Postby divideandconquer » Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:48 pm

It seems to me that some people posting here are confusing hatred of the surreptitious exploitation of the marginalized through never-ending propaganda, divide-and-conquer strategies, etc. to further a nefarious elitist agenda with the hatred of that exploited marginalized group.

So let me be clear.

I do NOT hate any group of people, except maybe the predatory elite. :zomg

I firmly believe everyone deserves to be treated with respect, except maybe the predatory elite. :zomg

I firmly believe in civil rights that do not discriminate against any group, except maybe the predatory elite. :zomg

In other words, I am very compassionate and empathetic toward anyone who is marginalized, ostracized, bullied, ridiculed for who they are.

However, I do hate the surreptitious, deceitful exploitation of the marginalized through never-ending propaganda, divide-and-conquer strategies, etc. to further a nefarious elitist and political agenda. That's the only thing I hate.

I also recognize that hating, even those who deserve to be hated, is, to say the least, unhealthy and solves nothing.
'I see clearly that man in this world deceives himself by admiring and esteeming things which are not, and neither sees nor esteems the things which are.' — St. Catherine of Genoa
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Re: Which gender are you?

Postby brainpanhandler » Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:54 pm

slomo » Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:16 am wrote:
brainpanhandler » 23 Nov 2015 02:07 wrote:
slomo » Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:28 pm wrote: [Short aside #2: when did Rigorous Intuition, of all places, become hostile to theories of conspiracy?


Really?


Meanwhile, can you haters of fictive Illuminati please, please, PLEASE stop abusing Orwell at every turn? His general statement about telling the truth being a revolutionary act wasn't meant to be stretched to fit every agenda.


I don't personally subscribe to a "fictive Illuminati" driving polarization of gender issues (at least not in the most literal terms), but it's a pretty low blow on this particular board.


I apologize for seeming to nitpick on a small aside in everything else your saying in this thread. It just stuck out at me and I impulsively had to pick at it. 1) You write Rigorous Intuition as though it was a distinct entity separate from the membership that makes it up. There's never been any consensus on anything around here. 2) To answer your question: Day One. Conspiracy theories of all sorts are constantly being created, offered, defended, attacked, debunked, scuttled, altered, rearranged... etc. It's a never ending puzzle. Consult the threads on the Illuminati. I imagine Riddler could offer you an entire portfolio of conspiracy theories he considers rooted in reality and supported by enough data points to warrant fleshing out. But he does not fall into the camp that wants to entertain Illuminati theories. Surely you don't think it is a bad thing that the board has members willing to challenge flimsy theories with little to no evidence to support them.
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Re: Which gender are you?

Postby brainpanhandler » Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:56 pm

tapitsbo » Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:41 am wrote:
brainpanhandler » Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:01 am wrote:
guruilla » Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:26 pm wrote: One thing feels strangely true, that I could have a much calmer, more compassionate and meaningful conversation with one of the transgender people I've known, than with their supposed defenders, at least as represented at this thread.


Why does that feel strangely true?


Probably because real flesh and blood trans people are more secure in their identity than people who have a more abstract investment in certain takes on the subject at stake.


Well, precisely, among other reasons. That's why it's not strange at all, it seems to me.
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Re: Which gender are you?

Postby brainpanhandler » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:03 pm

divideandconquer » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:48 am wrote:It seems to me that some people posting here are confusing hatred of the surreptitious exploitation of the marginalized through never-ending propaganda, divide-and-conquer strategies, etc. to further a nefarious elitist agenda with the hatred of that exploited marginalized group.


Can you point me to this?
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Re: Which gender are you?

Postby slomo » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:03 pm

coffin_dodger » 23 Nov 2015 03:37 wrote:AD:
Any fool can see that this is very much a repeated theme here.


Whoops, there goes the I'm intellectually superior meme, again(!) - these fools just can't understand it, can they?

AD:
The net effect of all the ignorance and bigotry is to make this board extremely unfriendly to queer people, those who do not identify/are not identified as white,men, etc.

Given the hatred and dehumanization expressed, I would guess that this is very often exactly the desired result...


Extremism of any kind tends to blind the extremee of their self-awareness.

Do you ever re-read what you post and see the irony? There is a 'queer' man actively engaged in this debate, but his views are dismissed becuase they don't fit your narrative.

The words you use to describe your enemies, - 'ignorance' (whoops, another intellectually superior swipe), 'bigotry', 'unfriendly', 'hatred', 'dehumanisation' - are the words of an individual lost in the indelible delights of extremism. Your strict and unwavering demands that everyone adhere to the letter of the law governing what can and can't be discussed at RI places you in an unassailable position of heirarchical power - of which you constantly take advantage. The general tone of your comments are of sneering contempt for anyone who holds a differing view. This is extremism.

You have absolutely no self-awareness. Devoid. It has been stolen away by the very thing you worship.

Pure gold.
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Re: Which gender are you?

Postby brainpanhandler » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:06 pm

coffin_dodger » Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:37 am wrote:AD:
Any fool can see that this is very much a repeated theme here.


Whoops, there goes the I'm intellectually superior meme, again(!) - these fools just can't understand it, can they?


You're right. That stuck out to me too as something that is unusual around here.
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Re: Which gender are you?

Postby brainpanhandler » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:09 pm

Harvey » Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:34 am wrote:^ Fight or flight response always leads to loss of self awareness, narrowing of social horizons. That's one of the major reasons some find it 'necessary' to induce it. As we're seeing.


Please explain. Are you saying that members here are doing this? If so, please point to it. I must have missed it.
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Re: Which gender are you?

Postby slomo » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:10 pm

brainpanhandler » 23 Nov 2015 08:54 wrote:
slomo » Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:16 am wrote:
brainpanhandler » 23 Nov 2015 02:07 wrote:
slomo » Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:28 pm wrote: [Short aside #2: when did Rigorous Intuition, of all places, become hostile to theories of conspiracy?


Really?


Meanwhile, can you haters of fictive Illuminati please, please, PLEASE stop abusing Orwell at every turn? His general statement about telling the truth being a revolutionary act wasn't meant to be stretched to fit every agenda.


I don't personally subscribe to a "fictive Illuminati" driving polarization of gender issues (at least not in the most literal terms), but it's a pretty low blow on this particular board.


I apologize for seeming to nitpick on a small aside in everything else your saying in this thread. It just stuck out at me and I impulsively had to pick at it. 1) You write Rigorous Intuition as though it was a distinct entity separate from the membership that makes it up. There's never been any consensus on anything around here. 2) To answer your question: Day One. Conspiracy theories of all sorts are constantly being created, offered, defended, attacked, debunked, scuttled, altered, rearranged... etc. It's a never ending puzzle. Consult the threads on the Illuminati. I imagine Riddler could offer you an entire portfolio of conspiracy theories he considers rooted in reality and supported by enough data points to warrant fleshing out. But he does not fall into the camp that wants to entertain Illuminati theories. Surely you don't think it is a bad thing that the board has members willing to challenge flimsy theories with little to no evidence to support them.

No apologies necessary. Under normal circumstances, I think it is legitimate to question any "conspiracy theory", and I realize that this board has a great diversity of opinion on various theories for various events (e.g. the Paris bombing thread, where the discussion is interesting even while there is no consensus on the deep origins of the horrible event). However, in this individual case, there is a comical lack of self-awareness and willful disregard for the culture of this board in expressing indignant offense at the proposition that confusion over gender roles might actually be an elite goal.

I don't really believe in the smoke-filled-room version of conspiracy in this case. If there is a conspiracy, it is run something like a government research institute, where funding goes to various programs that are proposed from below, and over time the ones that seem to result in a desired effect get additional funding.
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Re: Which gender are you?

Postby semper occultus » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:22 pm

I don't really believe in the smoke-filled-room version of conspiracy in this case.



...yeah, bloody liberal health-fascists have put a stop to all that these days.... :mad2
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Re: Which gender are you?

Postby brainpanhandler » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:26 pm

mentalgongfu2 » Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:49 am wrote: I'd rather not see it shut down just because it's treading on what some consider dangerous territory.


Who wants to shut it down?

I don't understand all this talk of wanting to limit people's ability to voice their opinions on the subjects being discussed in this thread. Where did/is this happening?
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Re: Which gender are you?

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:34 pm

brainpanhandler » Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:06 pm wrote:You're right. That stuck out to me too as something that is unusual around here.


This reduced me to actual tears of LULZ, in an office, on a Monday.

Thank you.

:thumbsup

Speaking with my Moderator Hood on, I'm kind of amazed this thread has been so civil and interesting, really. You're all doing great work.
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Re: Which gender are you?

Postby yathrib » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:37 pm

Luther, this while thing is very plausible, if you accept the whole narrative in the first place. But the author is making a number of statements that, if true, should be empirically verifiable. To begin with, is there really such a thing as a gendered brain outside of junk science?

Luther Blissett » 23 Nov 2015 15:09 wrote:Technically it's fear, not hate, but yoda and all that.

This is a pretty good illustration of why transitioning has nothing to do with transhumanism.

Cis People, Stop Thinking About Other People’s Junk All The Damn Time.
Understanding Transsexuality as an Endocrine Disorder

One time I sent a trans woman friend out to get me some menstrual supplies, and she brought back the wrong thing. By the point I realized, we were out on a boat. I cracked a joke about the whole situation, and had to immediately apologize for hurting my friend’s feelings. This annoyed me, though I was not annoyed at my friend. Society had been so completely shitty to her that I couldn’t crack one well-timed, fairly witty joke about being different kinds of women without hurting the hell out of her, which is insanely stupid. Women constantly crack jokes about the differences between women, and there’s something around 3.5 billion different kinds of women alive today. But society has so wildly abused trans people that my friend can’t get in on this rich vein of girl humor. I’m sick of this, and I need people to get a grip on how vicious and ignorant their behavior is.

Nothing about transsexuality is magical or strange, sinful, or even complicated. At this point in medical practice and human history, transsexuality is best understood as a disorder of the endocrine system of the human body, and not even a particularly complicated or esoteric one.

Your endocrine system is the term for the complicated interplay of glands that control signaling and growth around your body, using hormones instead of nerves. It interfaces with the nervous system at points, and some body chemicals, like norepinephrine and dopamine, are considered both hormones and neurotransmitters depending on where and how the body is using them. Diseases of the endocrine system can cause all kinds of crazy body effects: they can make you short, thin, fat, tall, nervous. They can make men lactate and women grow beards. They can cause intersex disorders. Anything the endocrine system controls is subject to the diseases and disorders of the endocrine system.

The endocrine system directs the body to develop in a male or female-sexed way, responding in part to genetics, but mostly as an epigenetic phenomenon. In some people, the brain and mind just aren’t going along with what the endocrine system is doing. For people without a very strong mental gender, this probably doesn’t matter much. I suspect there’s a lot more of these people than anyone realizes. For people with a strong mental gender that matches what the endocrine system is doing, it definitely doesn’t matter. For people with a strong mental gender and and an endocrine system that mapped their body another way, well, that’s the definition of a disorder or disease. In this case, the medical community refers to this as “gender dysphoria.”

Like nearly all other conditions, probably the vast majority of instances of transsexuality don’t rise to the level of needing medical treatment or public intervention. You can get a bit hypomanic sometimes without having bipolar disorder or be a handwashing neat freak without having OCD — the disorder comes, by definition, when it’s starting to harm your life. The idea of a medical problem is defined by the need for medical intervention. Transsexual or gender dysphoric patients are not pathological people, any more than appendicitis, or cancer, or asthma defines you or makes you pathological. It just makes you in need of medical help to manage your body.

Unlike those other things, transsexuality can’t be detected in a CAT scan. But in fact, most disorders can’t be. Think of things like neuropathic pain, phantom limb syndrome, or epilepsy. There might be nothing wrong in a tissue-trauma sense, but no one with a shred of compassion would tell someone who lives in constant, searing pain that it’s all in their head and therefore it doesn’t matter. Pain is literally all in your head, all the time. It can’t be perceived anywhere else.

So, for transsexuality to be a disorder, there has to be some degree of discomfort between the mind’s sense of gender and how the endocrine system is playing out in the body. When seeking to treat such a phenomenon, you might assume treating the mind is easier than treating the body. Let’s say that’s fine, whatever, what we want here is the trans person to be out of pain. Except as it turns out, no one knows how to change mental gender, and it’s not for lack of trying. In general trying too hard to alter the mind of someone in the power of a medical or governmental system has proven to be not only ineffective, but horrible.
That’s the horrible mistake people have made with gender dysphoria as well, sometimes going so far as to torture children to death in an attempt to violently alter the gender of their minds.


Many transfolk would have wanted to change their minds, if it were so easy. If there was a drug or therapy that adjusted mental gender, many transfolk would opt for it in a heartbeat. Not all, but many would avoid the social censure, breaks from family, and constant prejudice they face for having this endocrine disorder. Even cis people would be flocking to such a drug, based on all the successful marketing on being more of a man or more of a woman. Often transfolk have long painful stories of believing, as so many people in the public do, that mental gender is easier to treat than the endocrine system. The truth is, we’ve known of this disorder for thousands of years, and we’ve gotten nowhere trying to force an adjustment on mental gender.

The next medically responsible place to turn, therefore, is that pesky endocrine system.

The endocrine system is by no means a spotless operator. Some of the most common and terrible diseases in the world are endocrine diseases, such as diabetes and Addison’s. The sexual endocrine system seems just as error prone as the rest of it. I’m not sure why a system that causes puberty problems, infertility in both sexes, chronic pain, sexual dysfunction in both sexes, and even reoccurring tumors, would suddenly be considered a flawless determiner of gender. So if someone is experiencing a level of transsexuality that requires medical support, society should give them that medical support. I have no idea why this concept is so difficult for people.

How do we know someone is experiencing this endocrine problem? Like the vast majority of diagnosed illnesses, we know because they tell us. Even when your doctor tells you what you have, it’s often based on what you told them. I support what I call the Really Really test for transsexuality, which goes something like this:
“Do you really want to transition?”
“Really.”
“Really really?”
“Really really.”
“Well, ok then. Here’s how it works…”

(An aside: I do support the idea of a psych evaluation pre-transition, but this is because I support the idea of a psych eval before plastic surgery, having children, going to college, or possibly going on a long vacation. I think the idea of everyone getting supportive psych evals at least as often as general checkups or pap smears would make for a better society in general. We’ve worked out colds and flus aren’t caused by sin and demons, it would be nice if we could work out the same about bouts of minor depression, hypomania, and other things that derail our lives for seemingly no reason.)

The nice part of this story is that treating an endocrine disorder is relatively easy compared to treating a mind or brain problem. When the endocrine system isn’t releasing the right hormones we can often just take them as medicine and get on with our lives. This is what we do with Synthroid when we have a crappy thyroid gland, or insulin if we have Type 1 Diabetes. So it follows in many cases of gender dysphoria, we can at least start to fix it by administering the correct hormones, and giving those people support in managing their bodies, like we would any people with a chronic mismatch of interbody systems.

At least, until people without this disorder start freaking out about trans people’s junk. This is honest-to-god all that’s going on here: a group of people with an endocrine disorder, who may or may not get plastic surgery for it, dealing with almost everyone else in society freaking out thinking about their genitals. (Some of the surgeries can help with the medicine dosing and outcomes, so they’re not all strictly plastic surgery, but those are patient-doctor details which I rightly don’t care about as they are none of my business.)

So here’s my suggestion, fellow cis people: stop obsessing over the genitals of people with a particular endocrine disorder. That’s all you’re doing! Picking out a disease and poking and prodding people who have it, sometimes until they kill themselves. It’s horrible, and it’s amazingly tacky. It’s up there with cancer shaming and making fun of kids with Down’s Syndrome. Seriously, stop it.

Sometimes the brain doesn't match the endocrine system. People can take hormones to correct this, and live a normal life. Stop imagining them naked.
If you’re really stuck on wanting to treat this disorder by making the mind match the endocrine system, please by all means, devote your life to that science. Study neurology, and its link to psychology. We have so much we need to learn before we can get to the detailed depth of human gender and sex. At that level of understanding, I’d wager we could cure diseases like Schizophrenia, Bipolar, Depression. We could intercede for people with low intelligence, lack of creativity, Sociopathy, and PTSD. Go for it, all humanity would thank you for advancing our species. But until we have that level of understanding, let these men and women live their lives in a little damn peace.
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If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you.
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Re: Which gender are you?

Postby American Dream » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:40 pm

J. Rogue

De-essentializing Anarchist Feminism: Lessons from the Transfeminist Movement

Transfeminism developed out of a critique of the mainstream and radical feminist movements. The feminist movement has a history of internal hierarchies. There are many examples of women of color, working class women, lesbians, and others speaking out against the tendency of the white, affluent-dominated women’s movement to silence them and overlook their needs. But generally, instead of acknowledging the issues these marginalized voices raised, the mainstream feminist movement has prioritized struggling for rights primarily in the interests of white affluent women. While the feminist milieu as a whole has not resolved these hierarchal tendencies, various groups have continued to speak up regarding their own marginalization—in particular, transgender women. The process of developing a broader understanding of systems of oppression and how they interact has advanced feminism and is key to building on the theory of anarchist feminism. But first, we might take a quick look at the development of feminism—particularly during what is often referred to as its “Second Wave.”

Generally, the historical narratives of feminism that suggest that we might look at feminism in “waves” point to the Second Wave as a turbulent period with many competing visions. I’ll use that perspective here, though I also realize that the narrative is problematic in a number of ways, particularly its Western and US bias and I want to acknowledge that.[1] I’m from the United States, which is the context in which I organize and live. This particular narrative is useful here for noting some larger tendencies within feminism—particularly where I’m from, though again, I want to acknowledge that this process, while descriptive, engages in some of the kinds of exclusions I am criticizing in this chapter.

I also want to acknowledge that this is a story for drawing out some necessary and important divisions, but any categorization can be problematic (and how could a transfeminism not recognize and acknowledge this problem?). There have been theories of liberal, radical, Marxist, and socialist feminism that do NOT fit this particular narrative. I want to stress, however, that I find it useful in describing theoretical pasts and presents in order to draw out a radically different feminist and anarchist future.

During the late 60s through the early 80s, new forms of feminism began to emerge. Many feminists seemed to gravitate to four competing theories with very different explanations for the oppression of women and their theories had consequences for feminist practices of inclusion and exclusion.

Like their historical predecessors of the “First Wave” who were mainly concerned with voting rights, liberal feminists saw no need for a revolutionary break with existing society. Rather, their focus was on breaking the “glass ceiling,” getting more women into positions of political and economic power. Liberal feminists assumed that the existing institutional arrangements were fundamentally unproblematic. Their task was to see to women’s equality accommodated under capitalism.

Another theory, sometimes referred to as radical feminism, argued for abandoning the “male Left,” as it was seen as hopelessly reductionist. Indeed, many women coming out of the Civil Rights and anti-war movements complained of pervasive sexism within the movements because they were relegated to secretarial tasks and experienced sexual pressure from male leaders as well as a generalized alienation from Left politics. According to many radical feminists of the time, this was due to the primacy of the system of patriarchy—or men’s systematic and institutionalized domination of women. To these feminists, the battle against patriarchy was the primary struggle to create a free society, as gender was our most entrenched and oldest hierarchy.[2] This made a neatly defined “sisterhood” important to their politics.

Marxist feminists, on the other hand, tended to locate women’s oppression within the economic sphere. The fight against capitalism was seen as the “primary” battle, as “The history of all hitherto existing societies is the history of class struggles.” Further, Marxist feminists tended to believe that the economic “base” of society had a determining effect on its cultural “superstructures.” Thus, the only way to achieve equality between women and men would be to smash capitalism—as new, egalitarian economic arrangements would give rise to new, egalitarian superstructures. Such was the determining nature of the economic base. This argument was mapped out quite eloquently by Marx’s companion, Engels.[3]

Out of the conversations between Marxist feminism and radical feminism another approach emerged called “dual systems theory.”[4] A product of what came to be dubbed socialist feminism, dual systems theory argued that feminists needed to develop “a theoretical account which gives as much weight to the system of patriarchy as to the system of capitalism.”[5]While this approach did much to resolve some of the arguments about which fight should be “primary” (i.e. the struggle against capitalism or the struggle against patriarchy), it still left much to be desired. For example, black feminists argued that this perspective left out a structural analysis of race.[6] Further, where was oppression based on sexuality, ability, age, etc. in this analysis? Were all of these things reducible to capitalist patriarchy? And importantly, for this chapter, where were the experiences of trans folks—particularly trans women? Given this historical lack, feminism required a specifically trans feminism.

Transfeminism builds on the work that came out of the multiracial feminist movement, and in particular, the work of Black feminists. Frequently, when confronted with allegations of racism, classism, or homophobia, the women’s movement dismisses these issues as divisive or “secondary” (as spelled out in the narrative above). The more prominent voices promoted (and still promote) the idea of a homogenous “universal female experience,” which, as it is based on commonality between women, theoretically promotes a sense of sisterhood. In reality, it means pruning the definition of “woman” and trying to fit all women into a mold reflecting the dominant demographic of the women’s movement: white, affluent, heterosexual, and non-disabled. This “policing” of identity, whether conscious or not, reinforces systems of oppression and exploitation. When women who do not fit this mold have challenged it, they have frequently been accused of being divisive and disloyal to the sisterhood. The hierarchy of womanhood created by the women’s movement reflects, in many ways, the dominant culture of racism, capitalism, and heteronormativity.[7]

Mirroring this history, mainstream feminist organizing frequently tries to find the common ground shared by women, and therefore focuses on what the most vocal members decide are “women’s issues”—as if the female experience existed in a vacuum outside of other forms of oppression and exploitation. However, using an intersectional approach to analyzing and organizing around oppression, as advocated by multiracial feminism and transfeminism, we can discuss these differences rather than dismiss them.[8] The multiracial feminist movement developed this approach, which argues that one cannot address the position of women without also addressing their class, race, sexuality, ability, and all other aspects of their identity and experiences. Forces of oppression and exploita tion do not exist separately. They are intimately related and reinforce each other, and so trying to address them singly (i.e. “sexism” divorced from racism, capitalism, etc) does not lead to a clear understanding of the patriarchal system. This is in accordance with the anarchist view that we must fight all forms of hierarchy, oppression, and exploitation simultaneously; abolishing capitalism and the state does not ensure that white supremacy and patriarchy will somehow magically disappear.[9]

Tied to this assumption of a “universal female experience” is the idea that if a woman surrounds herself with those that embody that “universal” woman, then she is safe from patriarchy and oppression. The concept of “women’s safe spaces” (being women-only) date back to the early lesbian feminist movement, which was largely comprised of white women who were more affluent, and prioritized addressing sexism over other forms of oppression. This notion that an all-women space is inherently safe not only discounts the intimate violence that can occur between women, but also ignores or de-prioritizes the other types of violence that women can experience—racism, poverty, incarceration, and other forms of state, economic, and social brutality.[10]

Written after the work of, and influenced by, transfeminist pioneers like Sandy Stone, Sylvia Riviera, and her Street Transvestite Action Revolutionaries (STAR), the Transfeminist Manifesto states: “Transfeminism believes that we construct our own gender identities based on what feels genuine, comfortable and sincere to us as we live and relate to others within given social and cultural constraint.”[11] The notion that gender is a social construct is a key concept in transfeminism, and is also essential (no pun intended) to an anarchist approach to feminism. Transfeminism also criticizes the idea of a “universal female experience” and argues against the biologically essentialist view that one’s gender is defined by one’s genitalia. Other feminisms have embraced the essentialist argument, seeing the idea of “women’s unity” as being built off a sameness, some kind of core “woman-ness.” This definition of woman is generally reliant on what is between a person’s legs. Yet what specifically about the definition of woman is intrinsic to two X chromosomes? If it is defined as being in possession of a womb, does that mean women who have had hysterectomies are somehow less of a woman? Reducing gender to biology relegates the definition of “woman” to the role of child-bearer. That seems rather antithetical to feminism. Gender roles have long been under scrutiny in radical communities. The idea that women are born to be mothers, are more sensitive and peaceful, are predisposed to wearing the color pink, and all the other stereotypes out there are socially constructed, not biological. If the (repressive) gender role does not define what a woman is, and if a doctor marking “F” on a birth certificate do not define gender either,[12] the next logical step is to recognize that gender can only be defined by the individual, for themselves—or perhaps we need as many genders as there are people, or even further, that gender should be abolished. While these ideas may cause some to panic, that does not make them any less legitimate with regards to peoples’ identities, or experiences, or the kinds of difficult political projects we might have ahead of us. Trying to simplify complex issues, or fighting to maintain a hold on how gender was taught to us, does not help us understand patriarchy and how it functions. Instead, it does revolutionary feminisms a disservice.

Having encountered a lack of understanding of trans issues in radical circles, I feel it important to note that not all transgender people choose to physically transition, and that each person’s decision to do so or not is their own. The decision is highly personal and generally irrelevant to theoretical conceptions of gender. There are many reasons to physically change one’s body, from getting a haircut to taking hormones. One reason might be to feel more at ease in a world with strict definitions of male and female. Another is to look in the mirror and see on the outside (the popular understanding of) the gender one feels on the inside. Surely, for some, it is the belief that gender is defined by the physical construction of one’s genitalia. Too often, however, radicals who are unfamiliar with trans politics and ideas react strongly to individuals’ choices with regard to their bodies—rather missing the point altogether. But rather than to draw from speculation as to the motivations for the personal decisions of trans people (as if they were not vast and varied), it is more productive to note the challenge to the idea that biology is destiny.[13] Surely everyone would benefit from breaking down the binary gender system and deconstructing gender roles—that is the work of revolutionaries, not fretting over what other people “should” or “shouldn’t” do to their bodies.



Continues at: http://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ ... t-movement
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Re: Which gender are you?

Postby yathrib » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:49 pm

AD, but without gender essentialism the whole TG narrative is meaningless. How else could you say that someone who is physically and socially male is somehow really female inside? Every bit as female, we are told, as someone who bleeds and breeds?
Last edited by yathrib on Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Which gender are you?

Postby slomo » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:50 pm

Here are my comments on the "Junk" essay:

At this point in medical practice and human history, transsexuality is best understood as a disorder of the endocrine system of the human body, and not even a particularly complicated or esoteric one.

No, this is a willful twisting of anatomy and physiology. Aside from intersex individuals (who have a more fundamental anatomical problem arising during embryonic development), to the extent that there is any physiologic basis to transgenderism, it is a problem in the (possibly embryonic) development of the CNS, not the neuroendocrine system. Most non-intersex individuals have perfectly functional endocrine systems, just not the one their CNS wants.

The endocrine system directs the body to develop in a male or female-sexed way, responding in part to genetics, but mostly as an epigenetic phenomenon.

I'm willing to bet a large sum of money that this author has no knowledge of epigenetics and its core mechanisms whatsoever. (Hint: can she tell me what my avatar means? It's actually relevant to this issue.) Don't use words you don't understand.

In some people, the brain and mind just aren’t going along with what the endocrine system is doing.

This sounds like a CNS problem, not an endocrine problem.

Unlike those other things, transsexuality can’t be detected in a CAT scan. But in fact, most disorders can’t be. Think of things like neuropathic pain, phantom limb syndrome, or epilepsy. There might be nothing wrong in a tissue-trauma sense, but no one with a shred of compassion would tell someone who lives in constant, searing pain that it’s all in their head and therefore it doesn’t matter. Pain is literally all in your head, all the time. It can’t be perceived anywhere else.

That's true of any mental condition, including most forms of mental illness. (Note: I'm not saying TGs are mentally ill, rather refuting the point that the author seems to be making, thatTGism is some kind of special condition that is unlike any other in its medical manifestation.)

The next medically responsible place to turn, therefore, is that pesky endocrine system.

Obviously, it's easier to use pharmaceuticals to change ones endocrine profile than to rewire the CNS (and I would actually object to proposed alterations to the CNS, so in this case HRT is very much a preferred option.) But just because you are altering the endocrine system to correct a perceived mismatch between psychology and physiology doesn't mean that the original problem was physiological, it just means that the physiological state is easier to manipulate.

At least, until people without this disorder start freaking out about trans people’s junk. This is honest-to-god all that’s going on here: a group of people with an endocrine disorder, who may or may not get plastic surgery for it, dealing with almost everyone else in society freaking out thinking about their genitals. (Some of the surgeries can help with the medicine dosing and outcomes, so they’re not all strictly plastic surgery, but those are patient-doctor details which I rightly don’t care about as they are none of my business.)

This is the money quote. In my experience, people "freak out about trans people's junk" pretty much only when TGs waive it in people's faces. The position expressed by TG activists (online anyway) is that society is required to find them sexually attractive as their preferred gender, and any failure to do this is "transphobia". As radical feminists have pointed out, this takes the form of imposing their "junk" on lesbian women-born-women who don't want it, also imposing their "junk" on straight men who don't want it.

If you don't want people to "freak out about trans people's junk", stop making it an issue. Most of us are OK with incorporating trans people in our professional circles, maybe even social circles (to the extent that there are common interests). But the special snowflake / escalating victim mentality gets no sympathy from me; I don't want to work or play with anybody who is obsessed with their victimhood, and will go thermonuclear at the slightest of perceived offenses.
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