Leonard Cohen, Operative? (Ann Diamond material)

[Elliott Jonestown]

A well-researched article by an Iowa Writer's Workshop graduate exposes the CIA's role in seeding the MFA in creative writing programs in America. See it here:
http://chronicle.com/article/How-Iowa-F ... re/144531/ .

"Did the CIA fund creative writing in America? The idea seems like the invention of a creative writer. Yet once upon a time (1967, to be exact), Paul Engle received money from the Farfield Foundation to support international writing at the University of Iowa. The Farfield Foundation was not really a foundation; it was a CIA front that supported cultural operations, mostly in Europe, through an organization called the Congress for Cultural Freedom."

[lunarmoth]

First impression: this is MKULTRA-related.

That hadn't occurred to me, funnily enough. The at least partial reality of her experiences seemed inescapable, however. Perhaps the book is mapping the overlap between human-handling, CIA-style, and entity perception/possession?

Whatever the entities "are" ~ possibly psychic fragments, externalized alters...

I didn't read it all either.

I sort of figured it hadn't occurred to you. i hope it has now. It's classic MKULTRA. Where did you find it? What were you searching for? Insight into the "schizophrenic mind"? Schizophrenia was being manufactured in North America (and the UK) at the time.

However, "psychic children" (who were sometimes placed in mind control experiments so they could be studied - whole subprojects were built around these kids) can spontaneously experience other realities and dimensions. Their experiences have little in common with what this woman is going through. In fact NOTHING

"Entities" both exist outside ourselves, and are "psychic fragment, externalized alters" -- everything is our Selves however our selves are a fiction. Or so I learned when I practised Zen in California. This should not be a cause of anxiety.

[minime]

The thread seems to be drifting from Leonard Cohen in particular to mind control, whatever that is, in general. In any case, it reminds of this...




with this highlight...




Here are Justin Timberlake's comments on the incident.



Is this performance art? Social engineering? Who's doing the choreography--down to and including fumbling with the bra? In any case, the whole incident is dripping with symbolism.

Is Leonard Cohen a mind control subject? Is the subject even interesting? Why, yes, of course. We've been told it is so. After all, there has to be some credible reason for his celebrity.

Is there such a thing as mind control? Well, that depends. There is mind control, and there is mind control.

The incident linked to above strikes me as more of a partnership of equal partners, making a statement. What statement exactly? Now there's a topic of conversation for you. Not that it hasn't been broached here before...

[tapitsbo]

YES lunarmoth, schizophrenia is indeed often manufactured, in fact this process was attempted on me but I managed to break free at an early stage

I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on this phenomenon which is bigger than just the extreme cases such as MKULTRA

[Cordelia]

"Is Leonard Cohen a mind control subject? Is the subject even interesting? Why, yes, of course. We've been told it is so. After all, there has to be some credible reason for his celebrity."

How about that he is a credible subject for mind control study? A foot soldier, like many, post WWII lab rats for the burgeoning Nazi imported methods and mastery (after all, there has to be a way to control the minds of a growing population) who ascended the ranks. Maybe?

(Also interesting that in addition to McGill University, Cohen attended Columbia http://www.namebase.org/columbia.html; http://www.utwatch.org/archives/whorule ... html#intro, like many notably question marked in various fields.)

[guruilla]

We have cross-thread-pollination!

I've had the idea (after hearing your shows on Cohen) that Kubrick may have made A Clockwork Orange about Cohen. Maybe Cohen went through the experiences of the character Alex, or ones similar, depicted therein. See Leonard's song Teachers:

I met a man who lost his mind
in some lost place I had to find,
follow me the wise man said,
but he walked behind.

I walked into a hospital
where none was sick and none was well,
when at night the nurses left
I could not walk at all.

[lunarmoth]

@Cordelia: I don't think Cohen was exactly a footsoldier in the world of mind control. And although Nazis were involved in MKULTRA experiments (i.e. Paperclip scientists and psychiatrists working for the US and Canadian military), most of the perps were British and American. British eugenics was firmly established and underway before the Nazis. CIA director Allen Dulles who set up the MKULTRA program, was an Anglophile American.

@Elliott Jonestown: Kubrick's A Clockwork Orange was adapted from the novel by Anthony Burgess which was about street gangs running amok in post-WW2 London. LC was genteel young Jewish man living in a Canadian city thousands of miles from there. No connection whatsoever to the hero of Clockwork Orange who ends up zombified by electroshock and returns to society neutered and no longer threatening.

But the same British eugenicists were behind the program in Montreal and the one in London... and you're right: his song Teachers is probably about things he witnessed or underwent at the Allan Memorial Institute in Montreal.

[guruilla]

It's classic MKULTRA. Where did you find it? What were you searching for? Insight into the "schizophrenic mind"? Schizophrenia was being manufactured in North America (and the UK) at the time..

Phil Synder sent me a copy recently. He'd heard about it years ago in John Keel's books.

[lunarmoth]

You mean https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mothman_Prophecies

?

[guruilla]

I don't know in which book Keel mentioned it in. I may even have mis-remembered that. But the book had a certain cult status in the alternate field in the 1970s. I think Phil had several copies, and bought it every time he came upon it.

[lunarmoth]

I see. More research needed.

https://youtu.be/PfPdYYsEfAE


This Phil Synder or Snyder?
http://auticulture.com/the-liminalist-2 ... il-synder/

[lunarmoth]

YES lunarmoth, schizophrenia is indeed often manufactured, in fact this process was attempted on me but I managed to break free at an early stage

I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on this phenomenon which is bigger than just the extreme cases such as MKULTRA

I think "Schizophrenia" is caused by trauma and abuse, which can include drug abuse e.g. taking lots of LSD and all the life-shattering events that can ensue from leaving home, rebelling, being young impoverished and afraid all the time, not eating properly and poisoning yourself with different substances. Most dangerous of all: seeking medical help and getting diagnosed as bipolar which usually leads to a prescription that will end up making you sick, insane and totally dependent on the society that manufactures all these illnesses


I think that's been the idea all along: to give everybody a diagnosis and a prescription. And there are so many ways of getting kids to be sick and disconnected, starting with music. And the Super Bowl. If you actually followed the orders embedded in that Janet Jackson song you would be a robot.

A diagnosis of "Schizophrenia" is an effective tool to discredit victims of mind control programs. Since no one knows what causes schizophrenia, a diagnosis is quite subjective. It's a very useful label to put on people who try to talk --

[lunarmoth]

YES lunarmoth, schizophrenia is indeed often manufactured, in fact this process was attempted on me but I managed to break free at an early stage

I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on this phenomenon which is bigger than just the extreme cases such as MKULTRA

I think "Schizophrenia" is caused by trauma and abuse, which can include drug abuse e.g. taking lots of LSD and all the life-shattering events that can ensue from leaving home, rebelling, being young impoverished and afraid all the time, not eating properly and poisoning yourself with different substances. Most dangerous of all: seeking medical help and getting diagnosed as bipolar which usually leads to a prescription that will end up making you sick, insane and totally dependent on the society that manufactures all these illnesses


I think that's been the idea all along: to give everybody a diagnosis and a prescription. And there are so many ways of getting kids to be sick and disconnected, starting with music. And the Super Bowl. If you actually followed the orders embedded in that Janet Jackson song you would be a robot.

A diagnosis of "Schizophrenia" is an effective tool to discredit victims of mind control programs. Since no one knows what causes schizophrenia, a diagnosis is quite subjective. It's a very useful label to put on people who try to talk -- it's brilliant, really.

[tapitsbo]

that's all true. plus it's even admitted that the label covers several conditions.

my own experience was counsellors exaggerating minor worries into psychosis when i was very young, and then being medicated into actual psychosis and hospitalization with its attendant psychodramas - so yes I'm very lucky that I didn't have to deal with any of this more serious stuff.

Nevertheless, an honest account of my experience would doubtlessly garner the same qualification of "psychosis" should I reveal it to the wrong parties...

[backtoiam]

Nevertheless, an honest account of my experience would doubtlessly garner the same qualification of "psychosis" should I reveal it to the wrong parties...

True that. Being honest can get you sucked into a mental healthcare systematic nightmare of epic proportion because the mental healthcare system is so corrupted.

There are a lot of really good and well meaning people working in the mental healthcare system that do not understand that they are perpetuating a system that might not be serving the best interest of people that really need quality mental healthcare.

Some of the questionaires being used in the mental health care system are downright devious.

"Do you ever worry about being able to pay your bills?"

"Well yes sometimes I do."

Diagnosis severe financial stress and blah blah etc....

Sometimes its better to keep your mouth shut...because if you get roped into the system you might be there a while. That was attempted on me.

If you think about it, it is attempted on everybody. All you have to do is be alive and breathing and the system will attempt to diagnose you with something and write you a prescription for the meds.

Should a person be unfortunate enough to have really serious problems they need help with quality help might be hard to find and possibly risky because the system will use that taxpayer money to keep you in the system.