Study: Everyone loves feminists and environmentalists!

[brainpanhandler]

I guess that depends on what we classify as bread and butter. Organized abuse, environmental pillage, the paranormal, peace, philosophy, egalitarianism - that's the kind of stuff I was thinking.

True enough.

1)Organized abuse: I don't know a single woman irl that has any idea it exists.

2) environmental pillage: I don't know a single woman irl that does not care about this.

3) the paranormal: Passing interest. Maybe 50/50 split.

4) peace: All of them with a few notable exceptions.

5) philosophy: In the informal fashion we discuss it here? All of them.

6) egalitarianism: Virtually all of them in one form or another.

Perhaps it's just the combative, confrontational, juvenile tone the men take here with each other, myself included of course. It could be as simple as that.

[BrandonD]

That is precisely why I'm happy to let a frequently contentious conversation run free.

I'm curious, too.

I also wonder where RI's males skew on the autism spectrum. (Not intended as an insult or even a joke.)

My take: being on the autism spectrum almost guarantees that one will not socialize smoothly into his/her environment. Such people tend to be treated like outsiders from childhood onward. The outsider tends to consider and embrace outsider ideas much more readily than the average person.

Those psychological pegs that fit snugly into society tend to avoid rocking the boat whenever possible.

[tapitsbo]

That's why the autistification of the general population will have such remarkable consequences

[BrandonD]

True enough.

1)Organized abuse: I don't know a single woman irl that has any idea it exists.

2) environmental pillage: I don't know a single woman irl that does not care about this.

3) the paranormal: Passing interest. Maybe 50/50 split.

4) peace: All of them with a few notable exceptions.

5) philosophy: In the informal fashion we discuss it here? All of them.

6) egalitarianism: Virtually all of them in one form or another.

Perhaps it's just the combative, confrontational, juvenile tone the men take here with each other, myself included of course. It could be as simple as that.

I'm not a female so my opinion is not of any particular value, but IMO you are dead-on with that last statement. There are multiple occasions where I've made a post and never gone back to read the responses, because (depending upon the subject) I'm sure that one of the participants has written a hostile or rude response that I'd rather not look at.

And I'm a person who is used to this sort of exchange. Consider someone who might not find that sort of exchange to be productive, and also hasn't grown a thick skin from prolonged exposure to the locker room.

[General Patton]

[backtoiam]

I also wonder where RI's males skew on the autism spectrum. (Not intended as an insult or even a joke.)

The sort of mental horse power that exists in this forum is so far above average in its ability to discern the parallel universe that I doubt it could be matched on the internet anywhere else because of the understood and recognized neural pathways of the participants. It is so far above average that there is nothing like it anywhere on the internet as far as I know. The intellectual prowess and ability to read between a line in this place is as rare as a snowball in the heat of summer.

[Elvis]

Perhaps it's just the combative, confrontational, juvenile tone the men take here with each other

Remember the (locked) circumcision threads?

[slomo]

Can only speak for myself: probably slightly on the spectrum, but not much. For one thing, I'm very aware of body language (my own and others), and my in-person social life is rich enough. However, professionally I exist in a very competitive and at times combative environment, masked by a thin veneer of amiability. Believe it or not, this place generally feels relaxing to me, except for the occasional bursts of flame that are likely to happen in any forum with heterogeneity in opinion.

But online there's no opportunity here to read body language, "energy", or other factors that modulate conversation. And of course, I can't stop certain individuals from projecting onto me a worldview I don't hold, even after explaining it carefully, in ways still others can understand perfectly.

So, yes, there are people here whose intelligence I no longer respect. Probably a good policy just not to engage. You know, "don't argue with idiots, they'll only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." I'm sure the feeling is mutual. Sometimes, you just have to accept that you can't be liked by everybody.

[guruilla]

I would like to see some citations of all this virulent hate speech that comes from this forum. I'm not sure what the deal is with your insistence that RI is a bastion of virulent women haters but it isn't true.

I second that: can someone who is making these laments cite just a few of what they consider the strongest and clearest examples of this, at this forum, from the past few days? Because otherwise, the sorts of dramatic pronouncements that bumped this thread veer dangerously close to rabble-rousing. They seem not meant to be constructive but disruptive and divisive, aimed at unifying a subset at the forum and creating a counter-set. At this point, we could practically assemble teams.

I am firmly on the spectrum, by the way.

How can we come back from this and start making Rigorous Intuition less hostile towards and more attractive for women? What is the way forward?

Making RI more welcoming to women, or trying to recruit more women who share the “correct” beliefs about feminism, and whose presence will serve to reinforce that dominant ideology?

Is it even conceivable to the voices crying out for more equality and for more women that they might be the same voices that are discouraging some women from participating? I know for a fact this is the case, so it’s definitely not inconceivable to me. But then, these are the wrong sort of women, so they don’t count, do they?

Do they?

I am wondering how it got to the point that a man can now, in all good conscience, speaking as a feminist, accuse a woman who disagrees with him of being misogynous???

[MacCruiskeen]

Perhaps it's just the combative, confrontational, juvenile tone the men take here with each other, myself included of course. It could be as simple as that.

To be combative and/or confrontational is not necessarily to be juvenile, much less to be male, certainly, nor is it necessarily (or even typically) proof of some kind of emotional deficit. Because some things should in fact be confronted and even combated, should they not? It would be juvenile not to, or it would be something much worse than that. Ask Sylvia Pankhurst, or Rosa Luxemburg, or Sophie Scholl, or Rosa Parks, or Angela Davis, or Naomi Klein, or [complete the list yourself].

And yes, this "autistic spectrum" thang is becoming damnedly fashionable lately. It's like the Hollywood A-List; everyone who's nearly anyone wants to be on it.

"Bipolar" used to be the hip diagnosis, the one that conferred true distinction. How many editions did this book go through?



They even made a movie of it, inevitably:

[slomo]

Another thought on the "spectrum" question: there is a difference between inability to read social cues and simply not caring about them. Combative and confrontational environments (especially those that are openly so) are characterized by the latter.

Most successful people I know are assholes at least some of the time. I've learned to value the skill.

[BrandonD]

And yes, this "autistic spectrum" thang is becoming damnedly fashionable lately. It's like the Hollywood A-List; everyone who's nearly anyone wants to be on it.

Yes I think it is like schizophrenia in that there are multiple poorly-understood "conditions" being lumped under a common name, each with differing causes but somewhat similar outward symptoms. Some of the instances appear to be legitimate physical defects, whereas others seem much more socially-based.

[BrandonD]

Another thought on the "spectrum" question: there is a difference between inability to read social cues and simply not caring about them. Combative and confrontational environments (especially those that are openly so) are characterized by the latter.

Most successful people I know are assholes at least some of the time. I've learned to value the skill.

In a predatory environment, assholes will inevitably rise to the top of the pile.

And a pragmatic person would say, "That is the way it is, deal with it."

But for myself it feels wrong to value an inherently negative trait simply because in a warped society, it will produce results.

[Heaven Swan]

Rig. Int. Is not special. Women are ganged up on and attacked all over the internet. The hostile environment that we live in off line has been recreated online. Because posts are made under the cover of anonymity, online can be more vicious- verbally that is, while offline there is more risk of bodily harm.

Some men here seem to be well-intentioned, and that is good, but without being a woman, or putting quite a bit of effort into understanding us, none of you know what it's like for us to live in this world.

I'm interested in the topics discussed, but I have to live with sexism-related and other problems throughout the rest of my life. If I were to interact here I would have to feel that it would be relaxing and fun, in addition to being mentally stimulating. Barrages of sexist comments and a site that may be becoming a recruiting ground for the MRA movement is not fun or relaxing for women. It's harsh and for some might be retraumatizing.

[guruilla]

Barrages of sexist comments and a site that may be becoming a recruiting ground for the MRA movement is not fun or relaxing for women. It's harsh and for some might be retraumatizing.

Can you be specific, about the barrages (i.e., cite one or two) and about what you have against MRA as a movement, besides that link you posted, which I didn't have time to read? (I am no more interested in joining MRA than any other movement, FYI, but don't see what the problem is with men seeking some form of solidarity together, just as women have).