Active Shooter San Bernardino

[slomo]

OK, I agree. But what are you going to do, personally, to stop this runaway train?

"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.".

I personally do not have that freedom, except as an anonymous voice on an obscure forum, and occasionally to my partner, who is even better at keeping his mouth shut than I have become.

There was a time when I thought I might be able to make that freedom, but what I discovered is that I am much more dependent (economically and emotionally) upon my social network than I had previously supposed. I am pretty sure the same is true for most people, at least regarding economic dependence.

[Grizzly]

http://www.trbimg.com/img-566b468a/turb ... 51211/1200





http://graphics.latimes.com/san-bernard ... tification
That car was driven by deputy Shaun Wallen and was the closest in proximity to the suspect's car. Sgt. Andy Capps with the Redlands PD should also have some riveting footage as he was the first to run code behind the suspects, be shot at and return fire. Also the article mentions the wounded SBPD officer Nicholas Kouhou. His vehicle was unmarked, so likely wouldn't have dashcam but I'm curious to find out who actually shot him. It could have been friendly fire like in Watertown.

[MacCruiskeen]

I was going to jump on top of the bolded text, but your example re:homosexuality is a convincing refutation of the argument that I was going to make, i.e. that critical mass will never be achieved. So I will concede the point, ...

OK, Slomo. Maybe we can leave it at that. But it's been a discussion well worth having, at least for me and I think for this thread and the board as a whole. So, thanks.

... even as I observe that in my own life and social circle, nobody is interested in parapolitics. I'll admit that my social network is composed mostly of individuals on the higher rungs of the Gentry class ladder, i.e. solidly upper to upper-upper middle class, and so perhaps have a vested interest in not seeing the holes in the official narrative.

My own social circle is probably more bohemian and "arty" than yours, and pretty mixed. I know some dirt-poor people and some moderately wealthy ones. Last night, fwiw, I was at a pre-Christmas party in the beautiful big apartment of two friends of mine, a gay couple, he a well-paid hospital doctor, he an underemployed actor. I was, by the way, two hours later getting there than I had intended, because I had been so absorbed and so dumbfounded by the topic of this thread. But when I got to the party, I didn't once raise any topic that was remotely "parapolitical". It was a very entertaining night, and most of the conversation was about friends, acquaintances and (occasionally) enemies. At one point late in the evening I said something moderately uncharitable that raised a big laugh, and one of the hosts said, "***, you are the gayest straight guy I know!" I think it has happened by osmosis, living in this city and working in this particular branch of "the arts".

I even own an album by Judy Garland, but I swear it was left at my place by a long-lost girlfriend.

[MacCruiskeen]

http://www.trbimg.com/img-566b468a/turbine/la-chasetic-la0032867699-20151211/1200



http://graphics.latimes.com/san-bernard ... tification
That car was driven by deputy Shaun Wallen and was the closest in proximity to the suspect's car. Sgt. Andy Capps with the Redlands PD should also have some riveting footage as he was the first to run code behind the suspects, be shot at and return fire. Also the article mentions the wounded SBPD officer Nicholas Kouhou. His vehicle was unmarked, so likely wouldn't have dashcam but I'm curious to find out who actually shot him. It could have been friendly fire like in Watertown.

Very likely, I'd say. It seems the cops were shooting at the couple's car from at least two sides.

If the Feds and the corporate media had nothing to hide, we would know for sure by now, because we would have seen film of that alleged "shootout". I believe, at least until I see that film, that the only people firing guns were cops, possibly including spooks in the couple's car.

[Harvey]

Point out that Adam Smith and Machiavelli both wrote about 'conspiracy' for a reason.

[slomo]

I was going to jump on top of the bolded text, but your example re:homosexuality is a convincing refutation of the argument that I was going to make, i.e. that critical mass will never be achieved. So I will concede the point, ...

OK, Slomo. Maybe we can leave it at that. But it's been a discussion well worth having, at least for me and I think for this thread and the board as a whole. So, thanks.

... even as I observe that in my own life and social circle, nobody is interested in parapolitics. I'll admit that my social network is composed mostly of individuals on the higher rungs of the Gentry class ladder, i.e. solidly upper to upper-upper middle class, and so perhaps have a vested interest in not seeing the holes in the official narrative.

My own social circle is probably more bohemian and "arty" than yours, and pretty mixed. I know some dirt-poor people and some moderately wealthy ones. Last night, fwiw, I was at a pre-Christmas party in the beautiful big apartment of two friends of mine, a gay couple, he a well-paid hospital doctor, he an underemployed actor. I was, by the way, two hours later getting there than I had intended, because I had been so absorbed and so dumbfounded by the topic of this thread. But when I got to the party, I didn't once raise any topic that was remotely "parapolitical". It was a very entertaining night, and most of the conversation was about friends, acquaintances and (occasionally) enemies. At one point late in the evening I said something moderately uncharitable that raised a big laugh, and one of the hosts said, "***, you are the gayest straight guy I know!" I think it has happened by osmosis, living in this city and working in this particular branch of "the arts".

I even own an album by Judy Garland, but I swear it was left at my place by a long-lost girlfriend.

Your party hosts sound very typical of my social circle (except that we are shunned by some of the A-gays in our wider social network because we are not ostentatious and promiscuous enough). It occurs to me that the mostly likely sympathetic ear to the material discussed on this board is my FiL, solidly working class his entire life, and a devout Christian. But you'd find it difficult to get him out of his workshop and in front of a computer.

[SonicG]

Well it all appears to be down to the next-door neighbor, who seems to have said that he was in on planning for a never-implemented shooting and bought the guns for this one (claiming also that he didn't know they planned this one), but has not yet been charged. I hope they have him on "suicide watch", or don't have him on it...And down to "social media" and "discussions about jihad between Farook and Malik" because they didn't find the hard drive in the lake. Hell maybe they drove to Santa Monica to dump it in the ocean and drove back home in the time after the massacre...

Anyhow, more about Marquez:

The regulars did not take it seriously when Enrique Marquez mused about terrorism at Morgan’s Tavern, a dank dive bar where Mr. Marquez hauled ice, cleaned bathrooms and checked IDs at the door. After a few drinks, he would just start talking — about his money woes, trying to lose weight, wanting to join the Navy. News reports about terrorism were just fodder for more bar talk.

“He would say stuff like: ‘There’s so much going on. There’s so many sleeper cells, so many people just waiting. When it happens, it’s going to be big. Watch,’ ” said Nick Rodriguez, a frequent patron who had known Mr. Marquez on and off for the past two years. “We took it as a joke. When you look at the kid and talk to him, no one would take him seriously about that.”
------
Mr. Marquez occasionally talked about Islam. Sometimes he came directly from mosque to the bar, Mr. Rodriguez said, adding that this did not deter him from drinking, even though Islam forbids alcohol. Mr. Marquez did avoid eating pork, at least as far as Mr. Rodriguez observed.

“He would come and say he just came from praying. He would just come in after and drink, which I never understood.” Mr. Rodriguez said, adding that he did not know what mosque he attended. Mr. Marquez never spoke about any antipathy toward Israel or about the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, Mr. Rodriguez said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/12/us/en ... tacks.html

And this terrifying "hockey stick" diagram:


Here is a little about those intervening hours:

Jennifer Calderon, manager of the Circle K convenience store at the Valero gas station at Third Street and Waterman Avenue, said police told her the day after the attack that the shooters went inside the store about 11:40 a.m., 40 minutes after the attack. Police left with video that was filmed inside the market. The outside cameras were not working, Calderon said Sunday, Dec. 13.
"I looked through it and didn't see anything," Calderon said. She added that none of the employees remembered seeing the couple.
http://www.pe.com/articles/burr-789220-san-couple.html

They also got footage from a used car lot but no info. on what it contained...

[AlicetheKurious]

OK, I agree. But what are you going to do, personally, to stop this runaway train?

"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.".

I personally do not have that freedom, except as an anonymous voice on an obscure forum, and occasionally to my partner, who is even better at keeping his mouth shut than I have become.

There was a time when I thought I might be able to make that freedom, but what I discovered is that I am much more dependent (economically and emotionally) upon my social network than I had previously supposed. I am pretty sure the same is true for most people, at least regarding economic dependence.

Of course you have that freedom, if only inside your own head. And even speaking the truth as you see it to your partner and to others on an obscure forum is a manifestation of that freedom. Not lying, even (especially) to yourself is good too. It's not everything, but it's something, which is better than nothing. You can't save the world, but you can save your sanity, your integrity, your soul, or whatever you call that part of yourself that makes you more than an animated piece of meat.

There's no reason to be defensive about your unwillingness (inability) to take on the Masters of the World. Those who are tasked with that job are placed by destiny in a position to do so; that same destiny ensures that they have the right skills, character, experience and associations, leading up to a fateful moment in history in which circumstances are ripe for change.

To acknowledge the truth, is to contribute your small but vital part in making those circumstances right, for the right kind of change.

[semper occultus]

I even own an album by Judy Garland, but I swear it was left at my place by a long-lost girlfriend.

.......an aquaintance of Dorothy.....

[Nordic]

Sloppy.

Newt Gingrich tweeted about "California terrorist attack" on November 13th. A little early.

https://mobile.twitter.com/newtgingrich ... 8755314688

[AlicetheKurious]

Sloppy.

Newt Gingrich tweeted about "California terrorist attack" on November 13th. A little early.

https://mobile.twitter.com/newtgingrich ... 8755314688

Wow.

[Nordic]

Sloppy.

Newt Gingrich tweeted about "California terrorist attack" on November 13th. A little early.

https://mobile.twitter.com/newtgingrich ... 8755314688

Wow.

Right! I mean, am I missing something here?

In a country with actual journalists, this might be seen as a big deal.

[Nordic]

Ok here people are claiming its due to the UC Merced "attack" that I barely remember now.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/com ... terrorist/

Too many freaking shootings and other attacks to keep track of.

But people in his Twitter feed were even saying "California? Wut?"

[IanEye]

others are saying Gingrich was referring to a mass power outage in CA, that some point to as "cyber-terrorism".

It would be nice if the media could get Gingrich to comment on the ambiguity.

[MacCruiskeen]

Three separate witnesses describe THREE shooters (three MEN) - "tall", "appeared to be white", "athletic", etc:



5mins 9 secs.The actual interviews begin about 56 secs in.