Are there any US lawyers here? (Re. San Bernardino)

[MacCruiskeen]

brekin, I can't see that you have presented anything even resembling an argument here.

[...] Whether the shooter had a spat at the function with the coworker, whether the wife was an active shooter or just an ammo mule, whether she was texting allegiance or not, whether they were so dumb to drive by their house after starting jihad in San Bernandino, that their house/crime scene became a journalistic yard sale, etc don't really bother me so much because I don't really subscribe to people thinking all that clearly or even logically in a crisis and assume their is going to be mass confusion and inconsistencies reported and happening at a bloody traumatic event from survivors of a horrific life changing event and that law enforcement and media personnel, likewise, (depending on the region) may not be use to such high stakes events. There are norms that leave you flummoxed when they are broken (the media house yard sale) but sometimes these can show a lack of preparation instead of an exercise which had mapped out all the contingencies. Agenda wise the journalistic yard sale only hurt the narrative that they were a suburban sleeper cell because it fowled the one message narrative nest and only gave credence to the ptb not caring enough to spend more time on "this production" because they had other A movie plots in production. [...]

This is just word salad. It can be summarised without loss as: "Yeah, the story we've been sold makes no sense at all, but there's probably a reasonable explanation for everything, and anyway, it doesn't bother me much if there isn't, because, well, shit happens and stuff."

I presume you're not a lawyer and I hope for the sake of the USA that you are not.

As I said to "Iamwhomiam", above:

You wilfully ignore all the evidence provided to exonerate that dead couple. You wilfully ignore, for example, the fact (already known to you) that no one -- including the 50-60 surviving witnesses from that conference room -- has described the shooters as man-sized and child-sized respectively.

[brekin]

:ohno:

brekin, I can't see that you have presented anything even resembling an argument here.

[...] Whether the shooter had a spat at the function with the coworker, whether the wife was an active shooter or just an ammo mule, whether she was texting allegiance or not, whether they were so dumb to drive by their house after starting jihad in San Bernandino, that their house/crime scene became a journalistic yard sale, etc don't really bother me so much because I don't really subscribe to people thinking all that clearly or even logically in a crisis and assume their is going to be mass confusion and inconsistencies reported and happening at a bloody traumatic event from survivors of a horrific life changing event and that law enforcement and media personnel, likewise, (depending on the region) may not be use to such high stakes events. There are norms that leave you flummoxed when they are broken (the media house yard sale) but sometimes these can show a lack of preparation instead of an exercise which had mapped out all the contingencies. Agenda wise the journalistic yard sale only hurt the narrative that they were a suburban sleeper cell because it fowled the one message narrative nest and only gave credence to the ptb not caring enough to spend more time on "this production" because they had other A movie plots in production. [...]

It's just word salad.

No worries. Here let me help you. See where I presented something resembling an argument was where you only quoted [...] & [...]. It is much easier to understand when you don't dump all the lettuce, carrots, cucumbers, etc out of the salad bowl and just leave the "[...]" croutons.

brekin wrote:

[...] =
This is roughly my position, minus the personal shout outs and RI social intrigue. I'm always a little surprised at the assumption of expected clarity in reporting during and after an event like this. I've had experiences and jobs where minor to medium crisis's have gone done (luckily never anything on this Richter scale) and noticed people have a deep need to find a reason, a theory, why something is happening- even if it doesn't even figure into solving the problem. What happens is someone wants to believe X is happening because of Y, so they tell other people this, others want to believe this and use it as the working model, etc. This can happen continuously where a dozen theories are floated before lunch, are all true in their brief life span and then are dropped as quickly and ceremoniously as the next one is taken up as the truth. The need to find meaning and reasons (or rather a villian or scapegoat) usually trump any cool, calm analysis. The media does the exact same thing and is really just meeting the demand of "a reason why" and since their short cycles demand something, anything, they grab whatever is being tossed up. In reality they are tasked with delivering not "the news" but "the meaning". And they are improvising. To "expose" this doesn't necessarily point to a wider hidden agenda but that people are generally sloppy, harried and illogical when the shit hits the fan.

Whether the shooter had a spat at the function with the coworker, whether the wife was an active shooter or just an ammo mule, whether she was texting allegiance or not, whether they were so dumb to drive by their house after starting jihad in San Bernandino, that their house/crime scene became a journalistic yard sale, etc don't really bother me so much because I don't really subscribe to people thinking all that clearly or even logically in a crisis and assume their is going to be mass confusion and inconsistencies reported and happening at a bloody traumatic event from survivors of a horrific life changing event and that law enforcement and media personnel, likewise, (depending on the region) may not be use to such high stakes events. There are norms that leave you flummoxed when they are broken (the media house yard sale) but sometimes these can show a lack of preparation instead of an exercise which had mapped out all the contingencies. Agenda wise the journalistic yard sale only hurt the narrative that they were a suburban sleeper cell because it fowled the one message narrative nest and only gave credence to the ptb not caring enough to spend more time on "this production" because they had other A movie plots in production.

[...] =
Related to that, the perpetrators themselves unless they are seasoned pros are going to be improvising and doing inconsistent, stupid things. Did Farook think he could put a mask on and shoot up his co-workers at the christmas party and then drive home, thank Mama for babysitting and watch what happened on the news at home and just pretend he was one of the lucky ones that got away? Maybe, judging from what he had planned previously with Enrique. It doesn't look they had much of a plan beyond causing the mayhem. And many of the inconsistencies that seem so befuddling, Enrique? But he's such a kitten! Probably stem from the idiocy and character of the perpetrators. For Farook to even contemplate any operation beyond changing windshield wipers with Enrique shows how isolated and desperate he had to be. People are looking for either the ISIS Frank and Jesse James or innocent/programmed patsies a la Mark David Chapman and Sirhan Sirhan but it looks morel like, frankly, the Harold and Kumar of ISIS fanboys.

[MacCruiskeen]

That's still not an argument. It's just a triple portion of rancid pre-eaten word-salad, served up again.

No, thank you.

[brekin]

That's still not an argument. It's just a triple portion of rancid word-salad, served up again.

No, thank you.

[MacCruiskeen]

A photo of somebody else's T-shirt is all the argument you have, brekin, and all the evidence. QED. But go ahead, hang on to your testicles: they are, after all, the brains of your prejudices, or something.

God help America.

[MacCruiskeen]

[MacCruiskeen]

From the horse's mouth:

Want to Obtain FBI Records a Little Quicker?
Try New eFOIA System

11/30/15

[...]

Here’s what you need to know to assist the FBI in testing the eFOIA system:

You are limited to one request per day.

So the FBI is confident in the identity of the requester, you will need to provide a valid e-mail address and a government-issued form of identification in one of the following formats: .pdf, .doc, .png, .gif, .jpg, or .jpeg.

Your requests are limited to information about organizations, events, or deceased individuals.

If you are requesting information on a deceased individual, you will need to upload proof of death unless the deceased individual is more than 100 years old. Acceptable proof of death includes obituaries, death certificates, recognized sources that can be documented, written media, Who’s Who in America, an FBI file that indicates a person is deceased, or a Social Security Death Index page.

The maximum combined size of all attachments in a request is 30 megabytes.

Regulatory FOIA fee schedules remain in effect for eFOIA requests.

Audio and video files, because of their large size, must be sent to requesters through standard mail

[...]

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2015/n ... oia-system

Apparently any US citizen can make such a request. Doesn't have to be a lawyer.

How much would it cost to find out Tashfeen Malik's exact height?

[MacCruiskeen]

^^

FOIA Fees
Fee Guidelines

There is no initial fee to make a FOIA request, and in some cases no fees are charged.

Departmental Regulations allow us to recover part of the costs associated with processing FOIA requests. For fee purposes, FOIA divides requesters into three categories:

Commercial use requesters are charged for any search time, document review, and duplication

News media, educational, or scientific requesters are charged for duplication only, after the first 100 pages

All other requesters are charged for search time (after two hours) and duplication (after 100 pages)

You may make a specific statement in your request limiting the amount of fees you are willing to pay. If you do not state a specific fee limit we will assume that you are willing to pay all fees incurred while processing your request.

We will notify you if:

Your fees will exceed the limit
Your estimated fees exceed $250.00

You may receive the opportunity to narrow your request in order to reduce the fees, or you may be asked to confirm your commitment to pay the estimated amount.
Search Fee Schedule

The reproduction fees are $0.10 per page. The current search and review fees are determined by the General Schedule (GS) salary level which is representative of the HHS employee performing the initial search and review services.

Hourly Fees:
GS 8< $23

GS 9-14 $46

GS 15> $83
Fee Waivers

You may request a waiver for FOIA processing fees. However, fee waivers are limited to situations in which a requester can show that disclosure of the requested information is in the public interest because it is likely to contribute significantly to public understanding of the operations and activities of the government and is not primarily in the commercial interest of the requester.

Content created by Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Division
Content last reviewed on August 28, 2015

http://www.hhs.gov/foia/fees/index.html#

tl;dr - A FOIA request concerning Tashfeen Malik's exact height would cost literally nothing.

[MacCruiskeen]

Not that anyone here will bother to do it, or bother to do anything at all about this case.

[brekin]

A photo of somebody else's T-shirt is all the argument you have, brekin, and all the evidence. QED. But go ahead, hang on to your testicles: they are, after all, the brains of your prejudices, or something.

God help America.

Well, with you on the case and your desperate quest to land an American Lawyer (because all major conspiracies are exposed and rectified in U.S. courts) God will probably help America before you do. But don't give up, someday your prosecuting prince will come.

I don't have a dog in this fight, or even really a t-shirt in it. (Note: I do get the sense you need more roughage so I would encourage you to eat the salad you seem to be pining for. But my testicle handling is not something I need or want to discuss with you however.) But back to arguments. Your "arguments" seem to be pounding the table and demanding footage and answers to things that may well be nonexistent. While there may be the perception that everyone and everything in America is being filmed, that really isn't the case. But I blame Hollywood for that my foreign friend.

I would ask you, though, not to re-edit your posts after they have been replied to. That is generally seen as disingenuous, especially when most of it is just snark. I know you are building the legend but it is a little questionable to go back and add material when someone has replied to it.

As far as the "man size and child size" from the airport pic it looks like she comes up to his shoulder. He looks like an average to tall size guy. Maybe 5'8 to 6 foot. If she came up to his shoulder, being 5'2, 5'4 or an even 5 foot I don't think that is child size. She's not technically a "little person". But my guess is she probably was his ammo mule and got very little to no shots off. She probably didn't even enter the conference room and if he was smart (which he doesn't seem to be) she would have been waiting in the car with it running. Not to say a well trained woman of her size couldn't, I just don't get the sense she was out at the shooting range every weekend.

MacCruiskeen wrote:
This is just word salad.

Revisionist MacCruiskeen wrote:
This is just word salad. It can be summarised without loss as: "Yeah, the story we've been sold makes no sense at all, but there's probably a reasonable explanation for everything, and anyway, it doesn't bother me much if there isn't, because, well, shit happens and stuff."

I presume you're not a lawyer and I hope for the sake of the USA that you are not.

As I said to "Iamwhomiam", above:

MacCruiskeen wrote:
You wilfully ignore all the evidence provided to exonerate that dead couple. You wilfully ignore, for example, the fact (already known to you) that no one -- including the 50-60 surviving witnesses from that conference room -- has described the shooters as man-sized and child-sized respectively.

Last edited by MacCruiskeen on Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[Elvis]

Re: The argument. I think there were initial reports that he left after an argument, and then later that he just left suddenly. That the Messianic Jew at work argued with someone online...Seriously though, much like "I clearly saw three men with guns" to a man and a five foot nursing mother. You can't misremember an argument so easily can you?

Sonic, no one misremembered the argument because it didn't happen: the "argument" and "left angry" rumors are discredited. They were anonymous leads (in every sense of the word) leaked to reporters who repeated them, while actual named witnesses say they saw no argument, and that Farook behaved normally, saying "I'll be right back" before getting up from his chair, leaving his jacket.

The event was divided between a training session and a holiday party, and right before the shooters entered, the training session ended and a break was called. Lots of people got up and went to the restroom, etc. and many were in the restrooms when the gun-MEN (as reported by all witnesses on video) came in.


I wasn't having any of it either, until I sorted the noise from the real.

[SonicG]

Re: The argument. I think there were initial reports that he left after an argument, and then later that he just left suddenly. That the Messianic Jew at work argued with someone online...Seriously though, much like "I clearly saw three men with guns" to a man and a five foot nursing mother. You can't misremember an argument so easily can you?

Sonic, no one misremembered the argument because it didn't happen: the "argument" and "left angry" rumors are discredited. They were anonymous leads (in every sense of the word) leaked to reporters who repeated them, while actual named witnesses say they saw no argument, and that Farook behaved normally, saying "I'll be right back" before getting up from his chair, leaving his jacket.

The event was divided between a training session and a holiday party, and right before the shooters entered, the training session ended and a break was called. Lots of people got up and went to the restroom, etc. and many were in the restrooms when the gun-MEN (as reported by all witnesses on video) came in.


I wasn't having any of it either, until I sorted the noise from the real.

Thanks!

Brekin, can we take your arguments to the relevant thread? I have no problem with your thinking but I still think there are inconsistencies in there.
Whether the wife was an ammo mule at first, she has been pointed out as being responsible for firing out the back window during the pursuit so some of the 76 rounds must have been fired by her. Whether she was five foot or five-two, she was a nursing mother. While the plans seem sketchy, there was obviously a great deal of supposed planning and forethought, from years before, and you would think anybody with even half an evil, plotting mind, would realize that a rented SUV with Utah plates would stick out so why wouldn't they ditch it right away (or DID they?).

And finally, can anyone point me to articles about how Awlaki's 50 hour lecture series can inspire such actions? What are the magical words that would make someone think random killings of Americans, of various ethnicities including Muslims, with no propaganda attached, would be a great boon to the efforts of establishing Sharia law or whatever? The old canard of virgins in heaven certainly had no appeal to the wife...

(cross-posted)

[Nordic]

Re: The argument. I think there were initial reports that he left after an argument, and then later that he just left suddenly. That the Messianic Jew at work argued with someone online...Seriously though, much like "I clearly saw three men with guns" to a man and a five foot nursing mother. You can't misremember an argument so easily can you?

Sonic, no one misremembered the argument because it didn't happen: the "argument" and "left angry" rumors are discredited. They were anonymous leads (in every sense of the word) leaked to reporters who repeated them, while actual named witnesses say they saw no argument, and that Farook behaved normally, saying "I'll be right back" before getting up from his chair, leaving his jacket.

The event was divided between a training session and a holiday party, and right before the shooters entered, the training session ended and a break was called. Lots of people got up and went to the restroom, etc. and many were in the restrooms when the gun-MEN (as reported by all witnesses on video) came in.


I wasn't having any of it either, until I sorted the noise from the real.

Thanks!

Brekin, can we take your arguments to the relevant thread? I have no problem with your thinking but I still think there are inconsistencies in there.
Whether the wife was an ammo mule at first, she has been pointed out as being responsible for firing out the back window during the pursuit so some of the 76 rounds must have been fired by her. Whether she was five foot or five-two, she was a nursing mother. While the plans seem sketchy, there was obviously a great deal of supposed planning and forethought, from years before, and you would think anybody with even half an evil, plotting mind, would realize that a rented SUV with Utah plates would stick out so why wouldn't they ditch it right away (or DID they?).

And finally, can anyone point me to articles about how Awlaki's 50 hour lecture series can inspire such actions? What are the magical words that would make someone think random killings of Americans, of various ethnicities including Muslims, with no propaganda attached, would be a great boon to the efforts of establishing Sharia law or whatever? The old canard of virgins in heaven certainly had no appeal to the wife...

(cross-posted)

She has been "pointed out" by whom??? The fucking cops, that's who. The people who pulled off the whole scam.

Why is it so hard for people to completely throw out the story we were fed? It's all a fucking lie! Throw it out and start over.

These two poor fucks were sacrificed. And before they died they very likely had NO IDEA why they were being sacrificed.

Anyone who assumes that either of these people fired a single shot has NOT been paying attention.

[Cordelia]

^^^
"These two poor fucks were sacrificed. And before they died they very likely had NO IDEA why they were being sacrificed.

Anyone who assumes that either of these people fired a single shot has NOT been paying attention."

That. This heartbreaking atrocity.

It's like a taunt to the media and their public: How far can we take them beyond what's believable before they notice what's right in front of them?

[MacCruiskeen]

If there are any honest journalists in the LA area who feel like writing about this, please feel free to PM me (or to comment here).

Lawyers too, of course, still.