The Conspiracy Conspiracy

[yathrib]

I don't think Jim Marrs is a fascist, but he is a useful idiot and something of a naif IMO. He also doesn't have a good grasp of the basic facts of history, misdating well known historical events like Three Mile Island. And that is so typical of a lot of these types. Like the dude (I forget his name) who was on the Art Bell show circa 2002 or so claiming to be a Middle East expert. When he claimed that Saudi Arabia was 85% Shiah and seemed to labor under the misconception that a Shiite was just a particularly militant kind of Muslim, I had had just about enough.

[stickdog99]

On a related topic, considering transubstantiation, how can any practicing Catholic claim to be a vegetarian?

[8bitagent]

I don't think Jim Marrs is a fascist, but he is a useful idiot and something of a naif IMO. He also doesn't have a good grasp of the basic facts of history, misdating well known historical events like Three Mile Island. And that is so typical of a lot of these types. Like the dude (I forget his name) who was on the Art Bell show circa 2002 or so claiming to be a Middle East expert. When he claimed that Saudi Arabia was 85% Shiah and seemed to labor under the misconception that a Shiite was just a particularly militant kind of Muslim, I had had just about enough.

That's the problem with a lot of the "CT" activists, radio hosts and conspiratainment facts. They play so loosey goosey with facts, like a kid bending a puzzle piece that doesn't fit...just to conveniently make it fit out of frustration that it takes away from the overall presentation. I can see why a lot of people roll their eyes at "conspiracy theorist" culture, besides the hyper paranoid feel. It's just the really lack of context, facts and accuracy.

I'm about full truth, and introducing new ideas or facts even if they destroy previously held beliefs or challenge your own views. People love holding onto their pet views so much..even when confronted with a full picture of information that casts heavy doubt on what they once were espousing. I see this big time with much of "9/11 truth", as well as the mainstream and liberal position.
Again why I have tremendous respect for Historycommons.org Life is much more complex than "CIA-Pentagon-Zionist spooks".

I know in the past I have certainly both promoted or gave tacit support to "facts" or positions I now deem misnomers or incorrect. Maybe people don't want real truth...as much as even reality and truth has its own variables.

My paradigm would not be moved one single inch if tomorrow it was proven 100% that "God" existed. Or if "Jesus" popped up in Time Square. Or if "UFOs" formed an armada over Washington DC.
Why? Because I already accept life is baffling beyond all hell, and there are so many different possibilities or realities living side by side. Heck, after OJ Bronco Chase-9/11-UFO balloon Boy-Haiti, there's not much that really seems shocking or surprising.

[8bitagent]

I'm thinking more and more that the real judo is to get into that crisis/turmoil stage and just surf it.

My view on the what it means if "America, Europe and the world collapses and descends into chaos"

UFOs, nuclear 9/11s, assassinations, world war 3, solar killshots, collapse of oil production, 10.5 earthquakes...

[hanshan]

On a related topic, considering transubstantiation, how can any practicing Catholic claim to be a vegetarian?

belaboring the obvious;
eheh:

Wombaticus Rex wrote:


I'm thinking more and more that the real judo is to get into that crisis/turmoil stage and just surf it.

Indeed



....

[freemason9]

. . . The frightening thing is the number of progressive, intelligent people who are open to fascist or "Christian Patriot" ideology if it's wrapped up in a good woo-woo story. So here's my conspiracy theory: conspiracy culture is intended to indoctrinate otherwise progressive, sensible people with right wing thought patterns and the resulting beliefs . . .

Thoughts?

i agree, and i am regularly thrashed for challenging such behavior and the general absence of intellectual discipline among such critters

No, you're frequently thrashed for claiming to do that — and with a notable absence of intellectual discipline yourself.

intellectual discipline is NOT defined by agreement with your world view, smilies

wtf

[LilyPatToo]

Perhaps they're not a representative sample, but not a one of the Progressive intelligent folks I know is into woo at all. In fact, bringing it up is a guaranteed conversation killer.

LilyPat

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

Jim Marrs is a spook.

He infiltrated the JFK assassination research community and then in 1996 dropped the turd in the punch bowl, his book called 'Alien Agenda.'

His website links are to CIA disinfo woo crap.

I met this asshole at the recent Understanding Deep Politics conference in Santa Cruz a few weeks ago. The organizers were either naive or sabeteurs because 99% of the speakers were legit - David Ray Griffin, Peter Dale Scott, Peter Philips, etc. - but two were UFO-mind-benders, Jim Marrs and Ian Crane.

Marrs did a 9/11 powerpoint presentation where he used false balancing to first sneak in 'nukes at the Twin Towers' disinformation with huge misleading photos followed by buffer material and then cited the thermite evidence in tiny tiny print on the screen with much less emphasis on his part.

Oh, and he threw out the John Bircher red meat lie that now under Obama the USA has "gone socialist."

Marrs is a spook. Former military intelligence in Vietnam and then military-industrial tech writer and then Press Club prez in Fort Worth. Classic spook creds.

[Simulist]

. . . The frightening thing is the number of progressive, intelligent people who are open to fascist or "Christian Patriot" ideology if it's wrapped up in a good woo-woo story. So here's my conspiracy theory: conspiracy culture is intended to indoctrinate otherwise progressive, sensible people with right wing thought patterns and the resulting beliefs . . .

Thoughts?

i agree, and i am regularly thrashed for challenging such behavior and the general absence of intellectual discipline among such critters

No, you're frequently thrashed for claiming to do that — and with a notable absence of intellectual discipline yourself.

intellectual discipline is NOT defined by agreement with your world view, smilies

wtf

Don't act so surprised — that was the night you were going around here calling people teabaggers and goons.

[yathrib]

Thanks, Hugh. I didn't know all this, but I'd agree that this suggests either spookery or criminal naivete. To be fair, I know a Lot of people with similar (lack of) intellectual formation, but they don't get fists full of money to write books for major publishing houses. Useful idiot, or useful idiotizer.

Jim Marrs is a spook.

He infiltrated the JFK assassination research community and then in 1996 dropped the turd in the punch bowl, his book called 'Alien Agenda.'

His website links are to CIA disinfo woo crap.

I met this asshole at the recent Understanding Deep Politics conference in Santa Cruz a few weeks ago. The organizers were either naive or sabeteurs because 99% of the speakers were legit - David Ray Griffin, Peter Dale Scott, Peter Philips, etc. - but two were UFO-mind-benders, Jim Marrs and Ian Crane.

Marrs did a 9/11 powerpoint presentation where he used false balancing to first sneak in 'nukes at the Twin Towers' disinformation with huge misleading photos followed by buffer material and then cited the thermite evidence in tiny tiny print on the screen with much less emphasis on his part.

Oh, and he threw out the John Bircher red meat lie that now under Obama the USA has "gone socialist."

Marrs is a spook. Former military intelligence in Vietnam and then military-industrial tech writer and then Press Club prez in Fort Worth. Classic spook creds.

[nathan28]

criminal naivete

I was listening to a podcasted set of interviews someone posted here. Not going to name names, because...

Less than ten minutes into the first podcast, and at the beginning of each subsequent one, the interviewee said she "didn't want to name names" and wanted to "focus on the positive" but had decided to "go public" for self-protection. Okay, maybe. I don't see how "going public" without actually giving any details or names constitutes "going public" or how speaking in generalities protects you from the gov't... compare "paranoid schizophrenic charlatan dies falling out window of abandoned building he lived in" to "police refuse to release report on whistleblower's death" but I could be wrong. Except...

She answered "yes" to every single question. Every one. And the interviewer was an amateur, one who kept saying things like "I think blah blah I had this experience blah blah what do you think about that?" Okay, fine, except, when someone says something that doesn't equate, you answer "no, but..." So that's strike two. She was there to affirm a reality picture, or, she was latching onto a reality picture. Okay, maybe that's just her not being assertive or used to answering questions...

Then she mentions a specific town, w/r/t the UFO phenomenon. She says she had worked for years as a CIA contractor with investigators there. The host asks her if a specific highway runs through the town because he's not sure and trying to place it on the map--and then she says "yes." Actually, no.

On one instance she said her "mind control" "indoctrination" started "early" because she had to "memorize all the states and their capitols".


Apparently three states couldn't afford to participate in the psy-op.


The host wasn't that naive, so much as credulous. He didn't challenge anything; he didn't catch when she contradicted things she said earlier; he didn't ask for details. She claimed to have had a TV show... what was its name?

That's an undisciplined approach.

I don't know what purpose that serves, save to help mythomaniacs get their unending stories out.

[Searcher08]

Jim Marrs is a spook.

He infiltrated the JFK assassination research community and then in 1996 dropped the turd in the punch bowl, his book called 'Alien Agenda.'

His website links are to CIA disinfo woo crap.

I met this asshole at the recent Understanding Deep Politics conference in Santa Cruz a few weeks ago. The organizers were either naive or sabeteurs because 99% of the speakers were legit - David Ray Griffin, Peter Dale Scott, Peter Philips, etc. - but two were UFO-mind-benders, Jim Marrs and Ian Crane.

Marrs did a 9/11 powerpoint presentation where he used false balancing to first sneak in 'nukes at the Twin Towers' disinformation with huge misleading photos followed by buffer material and then cited the thermite evidence in tiny tiny print on the screen with much less emphasis on his part.

Oh, and he threw out the John Bircher red meat lie that now under Obama the USA has "gone socialist."

Marrs is a spook. Former military intelligence in Vietnam and then military-industrial tech writer and then Press Club prez in Fort Worth. Classic spook creds.

So one question I have NEVER seen you answer Hugh is your opinion on whether there is any life on other planets... why is that?

So - do you think we are the only intelligent life in the universe and that there is no presence here?
Your language regarding ET reminds me of the Catholic Church's attitude to Galileo, you don't address any issues - you never actually 'debunk' anything in this frame, you just call people 'spooks' and say 'no no no'.

[JackRiddler]

So - do you think we are the only intelligent life in the universe and that there is no presence here?[/b]

These two questions are wholly separate and should never be conflated.

[brainpanhandler]

My inclination is to vote useful idiot because I believe most people are not very good liars and actors. I think I probably underestimate people and/or overestimate my ability to spot bullshit. Or maybe he's just played this role for so long he has forgotten he's wearing a costume. He got fooled by his own bullshit. Or maybe he's just a well practiced snake oil salesman/cia psyops tool. If you get sick of the video skip to 22:13 to watch the ad to see how you can get a bottle of Super Male Vitality. The liberal elite have been poisoning you with estrogen mimickers!

[Jerky]

The point made by the Original Poster is an interesting one that merits more exploration: what do certain conspiranoids have against the Enlightenment?

The idea that the dread Illuminati was pretty much just a pro-science, anti-monarchy cheerleading squad seems lost on today right wingers.

That little gang of nerds, literally undone after a lightning bolt killed one of their messengers and exposed a communique, is now made out to be the ultimate globe-spanning, world-controlling, baby-eating, Satan-worshiping, anti-human, death-eating command cult.

Why?

In some ways, Rense and Red Ice and Alex Jones and David Duke are covering some of the same ground (albeit with different language) than many of the post-modern thinkers that they claim to despise. See Heidegger's great skepticism of Modernity, for instance, or Horkheimer and Adorno's Dialectic of Enlightenment, one of the core texts of Critical Theory in which the case is made that the Enlightenment project failed, and we're collectively suffering the consequences.

Meanwhile, we nevertheless live in the shadow of the Age of the Technocrats, the unwitting children of Norbert Weiner's organizational matrices and Oppenheimer's potential, ever-dangling, civilizational exclamation mark. This is the age of Monsanto's Terminator SeedsTM, of the ongoing livestockification of our species by unelected, hyperpowered bureaucrats, of Total Information Awareness (it's getting closer... closer...). For fuck's sake, even most of the LIGHT we absorb is gross and artificial. Considering the fact that light is the foundation of life (plants take light and through photosynthesis build themselves up to be eaten by animals, who turn that light/veg into MEAT, only for the light/veg/meat to be eaten by, and turn into, us), I think that's another unexplored aspect of our septic, poisonous, rotting, Apocalyptic age.

I could go on, but you get the picture. I'm basically saying, maybe - wrongheaded though they are on so many subjects, like their cowardly obsession with race - they are nevertheless RIGHT to be deeply concerned and skeptical about the general, long-term civilizational direction that we're headed in.

J