Democracy Is Direct

[Wombaticus Rex]

I didn't know this was a forum to skate around other peoples genitals in a manner that I don't break their delicate senses of who they think they are. There are forums for that? Right? At least I think so, I have not looked....oh yeah and their skin color, oh yeah and their label they demand to be called by...tedious as hell....there are forums for that shit right?

Yes, and this is one of them. You can engage or ignore that aspect to whatever extent you see fit; you've probably realized by now there's a lot of folks here who don't share your disdain for identity politics issues. One thing you have in common with those folks is that you'll all still be here next week.

RI is really only a "Safe Space" with reference to the reality of mind control and ritual abuse; both subjects that the contemporary Left will never acknowledge outside of debunking and mockery.

[Joe Hillshoist]

Myriad Ops in Tandem????

That is sooo pervasive. When I looked before it was seven threads on the front page. That leaves 43 threads you can read and interact with without having to see any of Ads copypasta.

I object to the REPEATED casting of aspersions, as if there's a brooding/burgeoning pro-nazi contingent attempting to infiltrate this board. NOTHING can be farther from the truth. It comes off as paranoid at best, and makes me wonder if it's simply a pathology or part of an effort to create friction in this board.

I think you'll find that is exactly what has happened repeatedly over the years. Whether its still happening is another question but you can't blame some people, Ad being one, for being paranoid given some of the things that have happened. But i think a big part of ADs point is there is a burgeoning pro-nazi contingent that are alot further along in their attempts to infiltrate society than when he (or she i forget) joined the site. And if he's like me he sees elements of it mirrored here.

Once upon a time some of the people at this site would have found all sorts of links between the people AD posts about on some thread (especially the Masculinity and the Far Right one,) and the MPII Complex (or whatever it is these days) by now. These days it the same Pavlovian response.

[jakell]

I didn't know this was a forum to skate around other peoples genitals in a manner that I don't break their delicate senses of who they think they are. There are forums for that? Right? At least I think so, I have not looked....oh yeah and their skin color, oh yeah and their label they demand to be called by...tedious as hell....there are forums for that shit right?

Yes, and this is one of them. You can engage or ignore that aspect to whatever extent you see fit; you've probably realized by now there's a lot of folks here who don't share your disdain for identity politics issues. One thing you have in common with those folks is that you'll all still be here next week.

RI is really only a "Safe Space" with reference to the reality of mind control and ritual abuse; both subjects that the contemporary Left will never acknowledge outside of debunking and mockery.

Haven't seen that term pop up for a while. I first saw it used by the far right (about themselves) and it struck me that it is a surprisingly useful category, and it actually seems to be a 'thing'.

I say 'surprisingly' because a lot the Left/Right dynamic (in the 'anti-fascism' context) amounts to useless hot air and often seems about denying the other side a foothold, that they do not have a 'thing', and what they do have is merely a (substandard) naysaying of their own position.

[Sounder]

Many here, as do I, agree with many elements surrounding what AD posts about.

But when one comes to see that analysis as being salted with hateful and racist breeding implications, one becomes obliged to more deeply examine the roots and use of that rhetoric.


Successful propaganda depends on being in coherence with the pretenses of the target audience.

[Joe Hillshoist]

Make sure everything is saved to disk somewhere, then maybe stick a fork in it? It used to be a much more supportive place. As well as a lot more robust and firey.

1) I've never bought the notion that we're in some sort of decline, but I'm happy to allow it because it matters so little.

2) If we are in decline, funny how eight years of progressive, post-racial Hope and Change is what did us in, rather than eight years of comic-book Bad Guys in office.

3) It's probably not any external cause, though: it's probably because we're not as exciting and diverse as better forums like Democratic Underground.

4) The unfortunate truth is that any online community will be driven by the interests and attitudes of the members who have the most free time on their hands. That's not a recipe for meritocracy.

re 2 I remember when you called Obama a black George Bush. I wouldn't call anything establishment related that's happened in the US in the last 8 years progressive, or post racial change for that matter. You were probably wrong about Obama being Bush in Black face. Bush was monumentally incompetent. You might say as useless as tits on a bull. Obama is just a corporate stooge. He was either a sell out or not up to it, tho if you look at things on face value he's probably been up against it from day one. Whatever its hard to have sympathy for a ruling class wannabe who orders fatal drone strikes on then jokes about bombing kids.

The truth is what "did us in" was probably a few things that happened in 2007, but I like that RI doesn't lay down and die even if it frustrates the fuck out of me more often these days.

re 3 funnily enough once upon a time we were. See 4 i guess.

[Luther Blissett]

This forum seems just as active as ever to me. I miss some voices but it's hard to even know which.

[Luther Blissett]

…
The truth is what "did us in" was probably a few things that happened in 2007, but I like that RI doesn't lay down and die even if it frustrates the fuck out of me more often these days.
…

Theresa and Jeremy?

I agree with your characterization of the last 7 years of politics. I am of the mind that any social progress and advancement we have made has been almost completely people-powered.

[Belligerent Savant]

Myriad Ops in Tandem????

That is sooo pervasive. When I looked before it was seven threads on the front page. That leaves 43 threads you can read and interact with without having to see any of Ads copypasta.

I object to the REPEATED casting of aspersions, as if there's a brooding/burgeoning pro-nazi contingent attempting to infiltrate this board. NOTHING can be farther from the truth. It comes off as paranoid at best, and makes me wonder if it's simply a pathology or part of an effort to create friction in this board.

I think you'll find that is exactly what has happened repeatedly over the years. Whether its still happening is another question but you can't blame some people, Ad being one, for being paranoid given some of the things that have happened. But i think a big part of ADs point is there is a burgeoning pro-nazi contingent that are alot further along in their attempts to infiltrate society than when he (or she i forget) joined the site. And if he's like me he sees elements of it mirrored here.

Once upon a time some of the people at this site would have found all sorts of links between the people AD posts about on some thread (especially the Masculinity and the Far Right one,) and the MPII Complex (or whatever it is these days) by now. These days it the same Pavlovian response.

"Elements of a pro-nazi contingent" is "mirrored here"??

Please provide examples of this, as this is news to me.
‎

Perhaps there may be a burgeoning movement of "far right" elements in the U.S., and it shouldn't be too surprising given the trends we've observed becoming more prominent over the last 15-20 yrs.
The middle class is vanishing. Many formerly middle-class whites are feeling increasingly threatened --- those that aren't drowning in alcohol or taking their own lives.

It's an INEVITABLE result of trends that have been discussed in this forum over the years.

Tell me: how does "copypasta" attempt to 'tackle' such trends? Copypasta in a forum of largely left/middle-thinkers, no less?
Raise Awareness, perhaps? Will that help TEMPER this SWELL?
Not among this crowd.

In any event, none of those trends EXCUSE the casting of BASELESS aspersions.

If there are legitimate concerns, send a PM to the Mod about it.

[American Dream]

The only reason people are saying what they say is cos you don't want to think about the things he posts.

Yeah- there are unspeakable truths, even here at R.I.

Stormfart is just one part of the atmosphere, "patriotic" settler types represent another layer. In the greater world, the conspiracy ecology includes them but is not confined to them either. Given that the intention was- and is- to minimize the influence of racist/fascist/sexist/ bigots and the like, our ecology shows its relative health through the power these sorts of people project.

Jeff's second to last post was "We are the Monsters we've been waiting for". I think it shines a light on some of the broader context, though I have my own thoughts on the matter too.

Still, if this is going to be a place that welcomes the dark voices: the feminine, the colonized and the queer, the displaced and oppressed: the survivors of the worst violence embedded in Empire, it will take attention to anti-fascist/anti-racist/anti-sexist thinking- and it will take work.

I have always believed in the power of Conspiracy Culture to help make our world better- and I still do. It helps explain a great many things that go beyond structural explanations- though it can not get anywhere good without rigorous thinking along those lines, either.

Things are not great in this world of ours and I believe that we can help. Racism, Sexism, Homophobia, Xenophobia and the like just don't help.




.

[jakell]

Just noticed this and I think it's an almost invisible assumption (regarding externality) that is worth highlighting:

Myriad Ops in Tandem????

That is sooo pervasive. When I looked before it was seven threads on the front page. That leaves 43 threads you can read and interact with without having to see any of Ads copypasta.

I object to the REPEATED casting of aspersions, as if there's a brooding/burgeoning pro-nazi contingent attempting to infiltrate this board. NOTHING can be farther from the truth. It comes off as paranoid at best, and makes me wonder if it's simply a pathology or part of an effort to create friction in this board.

I think you'll find that is exactly what has happened repeatedly over the years. Whether its still happening is another question but you can't blame some people, Ad being one, for being paranoid given some of the things that have happened. But i think a big part of ADs point is there is a burgeoning pro-nazi contingent that are alot further along in their attempts to infiltrate society than when he (or she i forget) joined the site. And if he's like me he sees elements of it mirrored here.

Once upon a time some of the people at this site would have found all sorts of links between the people AD posts about on some thread (especially the Masculinity and the Far Right one,) and the MPII Complex (or whatever it is these days) by now. These days it the same Pavlovian response.

Whether we like it or not, these people are a part of society.

I know the use of the word 'nazi' here does rather narrow the field, but I'm assuming that the category you have in mind is wider than that. They are a part of society.
I think you're right about their increased solidity though, but I put this down to the Left's smug-self absorption, plus the fact that the conditions they favour are becoming more prevalent.

[Belligerent Savant]

.

Things are not great in this world of ours and I believe that we can help. Racism, Sexism, Homophobia and the like just don't help..

Indeed. Things are not great.

Racism, Sexism, Homophobia do NOT help, and all others of relatively thoughtful mindsets will agree.

BUT: Millions -- for a variety of reasons -- will continue to harbor such thoughts, and NOTHING (short of a sudden and unprecedented GLOBAL shift in human awareness/empathy, which given the numerous other ills in the world, will NOT be occurring anytime soon) will change that fact.

You believe "we can help" --- HOW? By doing what, exactly? There is a REAL WORLD out there that WE can't control. We certainly can't change minds by posting our 'ideal visions for humanity' in this forum. NO MATTER HOW MANY OPs and 'copypastas' one may be inclined to generate. Hundreds, Thousands... MILLIONS.

It won't change the fact that Sexism, Racism and Homophobia (among others) will persist.

Such is the way of the modern human, alas.

Perhaps in another thousand years, we'll evolve to meet your standards.

[General Patton]

I've always wondered why global empathy would be a good thing if the collective consciousness of humanity is clogged with tons of trash. Better for it to be shut down unless their power level is pretty high. Otherwise they'd just end up being very neurotic. Awareness alone does not ensure integrity.

[American Dream]

I got my start with the movement against covert imperial wars in Latin America. Drugs-for-guns and death squads with fascist links were a key part of that. Exposure helped stop that living hell.

For better and for worse, this quote does resonate. If the shoe don't fit, don't wear it:

Cap and Trade, An anthropologist explores the world of matsutake mushroom picking and what it reveals about neoliberal capitalism

The book seems hopeful.

I’ve been accused both ways.

Well, it has “End of the World” in the main title, and “the Possibilities of Life” in the subtitle.

That’s true. We don’t have a choice except to muddle by. So that’s the hopeful part. We have to figure out what we’ve got and what we can do with it. To me, this is practical hopefulness. It is a hard line to pull off. The subtitle is not actually about hope in a traditional Christian sense of redemption. At this particular historical moment, I don’t think that makes much sense. There are plenty of people who want to use a set of philosophies or technologies to get us out of the soup. That’s tough. On the other hand, there’s just getting stuck in a big bundle of apocalyptic thinking.

The book asks us to pay attention to the imperfect situation in which we live, to recognize both the handholds and the pitfalls. Perhaps looking at this particular mushroom lends hopefulness. I’ve since realized I don’t have to go that direction. Lately I’ve been giving papers on killer fungi, the kind of fungi that grow unintentionally out of the plantation system. These fungi and other pests and diseases represent the plantation system gone wild in ways that negatively affect humans, plants, or animals. Fungus can be terrible too.

[jakell]

I got my start with the movement against covert imperial wars in Latin America. Drugs-for-guns and death squads with fascist links were a key part of that. Exposure helped stop that living hell.

For better and for worse, this quote does resonate. If the shoe don't fit, don't wear it:

Have you ever considered that you've wandered far from that and started to include all sorts of disparate material that prevents the formation of a coherent pattern? Coherent to others that is, your own private take may be consistent for all I know.

[tapitsbo]

American Dream knows what they stand for and what approach to take.

The rest of you arguing with him keep identifying cognitive dissonance, hypocrisy to object to, etc.

But since it's not usually clear what your positions are instead, American Dream "wins". Jakell, however clever and wearing your jabbing at them might be, you are only making AD look better (which I don't welcome.)

It's like a student huffing and puffing asking a professor questions who is only there to lecture, not to interact with anybody else.

Wombat's responses to AD are good because he seems to not define his interventions as being "against" AD but instead "about" his own concerns...

It's awfully easy for AD to paint you all with their strawman labels like "anti-imperialism of fools" given the way you are interacting with he/she/it/them...

A famous self-ID'ed anarchist (Katie Nelson) in my area has explained how the ideology had never posed any problems or contradictions for her. I think it should be obvious why this presents an extreme case of fundamentalism and the refusal of discourse with any "others", a complete persistence in an insular dogma literally defined by nihilism (in the etymology of "anarchism" to begin with.)

Good luck, riggies...

Oh and CrimeThinc is deeply silly.