Start Preparing for the Collapse of the Saudi Kingdom

[stefano]

You're a Sabbahi kind of guy? Why? You like his hair? You don't even understand his talk, which is all he does. He talks and talks, but never answers the one question so many people are asking: what does he do for a living? He hasn't been gainfully employed in many years, yet he lives quite well. He's a failed journalist, a failed actor, a failed politician. He used to travel around to visit Arab heads of state with deep pockets, such as Saddam Hussein and Muammar Qaddafy, where he'd sing their praises in exchange for a fat cheque. He posed for years as a Nasserist, and he talked the talk, but when the Brotherhood took power he sucked up to them, by giving himself the right to go straight to MB headquarters and "apologize on behalf of all Nasserists" which prompted most genuine Nasserists (including Nasser's own family) to repudiate him. Once, when he was cornered, he said that he worked as a translator, which shows his appalling gall, since he doesn't speak any language other than Arabic. He's a clown and a coward and a liar and a bag of hot air, for sale to the highest bidder, with no principles whatsoever. So I'm really interested to hear what makes you "a Sabbahi kind of guy."

That's all very interesting, thanks. I'll admit I'm not a very close follower of what Sabbahi says and does - I only really paid attention to him ahead of the 2012 election, when he looked like a reasonable alternative between the beardies and the cops-spooks-NDP business networks nexus. And I obviously wasn't alone in this: he got 4.8 million votes in 2012, and you yourself in the Egypt thread said that you'd supported him. So presumably his underwhelming CV didn't put a lot of people off back then. Did the things you're talking about here come out more lately than that, by any chance? Maybe ahead of the 2014 elections, and pushed by State media? As far as I can tell (I was searching in English now) the stories about him doing PR work for Hussein and Gaddafi originally came for Aboul Fotouh's people, so it's funny that that has now become a mainstream talking point. And I couldn't find anything now about him having apologised to the MB on behalf of Nasserists, do you have a link? First I've heard of if, and it seems like the kind of thing that you would have brought up in 2014, but didn't. Did that happen to come out lately, too?

Anyway, whatever. I'm not married to the guy, he just seemed, on superficial analysis, like someone I could support. Maybe he is a bag of hot air (a politician being a bag of hot air, imagine that), but that wouldn't change my opinion of Sisi and Zend and their gang.

Nobody gets a slice of the Egyptian army, except Egypt. If you don't understand that, you'll keep misreading the situation, as you keep doing.

We'll see soon enough, I guess. If I have misread the situation and Egypt is in a position to tell King Salman to fuck off, then that would be very good for Egypt, and I'd be pleased about it. Let's see.

Ethiopia is working to deprive Egypt of its only source of water, which would make Egypt, a country of 90 million people, uninhabitable.

They don't have a choice, any more than you do. This is heading one way.

[AlicetheKurious]

That's all very interesting, thanks. I'll admit I'm not a very close follower of what Sabbahi says and does - I only really paid attention to him ahead of the 2012 election, when he looked like a reasonable alternative between the beardies and the cops-spooks-NDP business networks nexus. And I obviously wasn't alone in this: he got 4.8 million votes in 2012, and you yourself in the Egypt thread said that you'd supported him. So presumably his underwhelming CV didn't put a lot of people off back then. Did the things you're talking about here come out more lately than that, by any chance? Maybe ahead of the 2014 elections, and pushed by State media?

Yes, indeed I did. I voted for him, and rooted for him, because he posed as a Nasserist (which I am) and more importantly, I believed he had the best chance of defeating the Brotherhood's candidate, Mohamed Morsi. That was hardly the only time I've been very, very wrong due to ignorance and naivete. In fact, until the Brotherhood took over Egypt, like most Egyptians I was not all that involved in or knowledgeable about Egyptian politics. Personally, I was far more interested in international and regional news. Nothing very interesting seemed to be happening inside Egypt. I got most of my "news" about Egypt from Al-Jazeera, of which I was a huge and dedicated fan, and from a number of Egyptian evening talk shows, especially the daily roundup and in-depth interviews by Mona Shazli on "10 PM", which aired daily from 10-12 pm.

As the saying goes, "garbage in, garbage out." The year of the Brotherhood, 2012-13, marked my rude awakening to how easily and badly manipulated I had been. We were in danger of losing our country because we had been too stupid, too complacent and too lazy to inform ourselves about what was really going on. The manipulation was done by experts, and the lies were so much more easily available than the truth. The shock, and the outrage I felt changed me irrevocably, and changed my relationship with "the news". It was no longer something I listened to passively, but a catalyst that drove me to dig and question and investigate each little bit of information until I had another piece of the puzzle that fit with the rest. I was forced to work hard, very hard, to inform myself.

Oddly enough, it was a very similar process to what happened to me before, during and after the 9/11 attacks. When they occurred, I took them absolutely at face value and swallowed the official story whole. As later happened with Al-Jazeera and the Egyptian evening talk shows, during 2011 I was glued to CNN and BBC World, believing everything I saw and heard. However, though I'm a trusting soul by nature, I'm not stupid. When holes or contradictions appear in a narrative, I don't ignore them, but seek to understand, sometimes obsessively, digging and digging to the point of exhaustion, going back as far as I needed to go. In fact, it wasn't until around 2003 that I even learned about the relationship between the Pakistani ISI, the CIA and the Taliban, and years later that I saw that video of Brzezinski in Afghanistan telling the armed "mujahideen" that "God is on your side." But by then I knew enough to know how badly and deliberately we'd been manipulated. That's what happened to me during the past 2-3 years in Egypt.

Sabbahy's apology to the MB was in 2010, and at the time it created quite a stir in certain circles. Sami Sharaf, President Nasser's Chief of Staff, broke his decades' long silence to respond. But it didn't make a blip on my radar, or the radar of the millions who, like me, weren't avid followers of domestic politics. At the time, only about 3 million Egyptians used the internet and social media, unlike the approximately 23 million who use them today, so information not covered by TV had a far smaller impact. Now, of course, all sorts of things are spread through the internet, helpful and destructive. Youtube is very frustrating, though. I've seen so many videos of Sabbahy's infamous apology, and exposing his multiple faces, but in 99% of the cases when I conduct a search, I end up with Youtube videos that say: "This video does not exist." It's the exact same thing with the hundreds of videos that showed Muslim Brotherhood armed terrorists inside the Rabea camp. Not for the first time, I'm wondering who Youtube works for, and how and by whom these videos are being deleted.

Anyway, I finally found ONE compilation video about Sabbahy that includes some of the footage that's been scrubbed elsewhere:



For what it's worth, unlike with 9/11, when it came to Egypt I wasn't reduced to my computer and tv and newspapers, but was able to experience many things and meet many people directly involved first-hand. Some of them became good friends. I spent a huge amount of time in Tahrir Square between the winter of 2011 and the spring of 2012 and met many of the best-known and loudest "revolutionaries". I invited many of them into my home. I even sold some of my gold jewelry and collected money from my husband and friends to feed and shelter demonstrators in Tahrir. I never met Hamdeen Sabbahy personally, but I was very close to the woman who later became his campaign manager. Like so many of these "revolutionaries", she turned out to be very different than she portrayed herself to be. Blinded by my revolutionary fervor, it took a while for it to dawn on me that none of these people had jobs, or at least jobs that paid a decent salary, or had any known means of support. Yet they'd disappear for weeks or months and in one case a year, traveling to Europe, taking selfies wearing designer clothes and/or handbags, dining in expensive restaurants, and then coming back and agitating against the government "on behalf of the poor". Some of them currently live in the US, where they continue to try to overthrow the Egyptian government. Among them are those like one woman, "Julia", who were barely literate, unemployed, (I once gave her the next month's rent on her apartment, from which she was close to being evicted) yet somehow she's now living in the US, popping up one day in New York, another in Washington, where she's said to be working for Omar Afifi, the sinister "revolutionary mastermind" operating a stone's throw away from Langley. Like a lot of the "revolutionaries", she cleans up really well, given enough money, of which there seems to be no shortage, oddly enough. There are so many other examples I could mention.

Anyway, whatever. I'm not married to the guy, he just seemed, on superficial analysis, like someone I could support. Maybe he is a bag of hot air (a politician being a bag of hot air, imagine that), but that wouldn't change my opinion of Sisi and Zend and their gang.

You're free to hold on to your opinion about our president and about Judge Zind, and naturally others are free to evaluate the quality and accuracy of the information on which your opinions are based, and to find them sorely lacking.

As far as I can tell (I was searching in English now) the stories about him doing PR work for Hussein and Gaddafi originally came for Aboul Fotouh's people, so it's funny that that has now become a mainstream talking point. And I couldn't find anything now about him having apologised to the MB on behalf of Nasserists, do you have a link? First I've heard of if, and it seems like the kind of thing that you would have brought up in 2014, but didn't. Did that happen to come out lately, too?

No, nothing important comes from Aboul Fotouh's people. The video above shows him singing the praises of Saddam Hussein and of his regime, and then later claiming he never did. That's his m.o., by the way. He has a nasty habit of simply denying even things we've seen and heard for ourselves. It's really insulting, and contemptible.

If I have misread the situation and Egypt is in a position to tell King Salman to fuck off, then that would be very good for Egypt, and I'd be pleased about it. Let's see.

Yes, let's. But Egypt will never tell King Salman, or anyone else, to "fuck off"; neither will Egypt or the Egyptian army do any other country's bidding. In any case, Egypt will not send ground troops into either Yemen or Syria.

Ethiopia is working to deprive Egypt of its only source of water, which would make Egypt, a country of 90 million people, uninhabitable.

They don't have a choice, any more than you do. This is heading one way.

What do you mean they don't have a choice? Ethiopia is building a massive dam to divert and block Nile water from reaching Egypt, a country that is already suffering a serious water shortage. Egypt has repeatedly said that they support Ethiopia's objective to generate electricity for development, but that this can be done without annihilating Egypt as a viable country. Instead of acknowledging the right of 90 million Egyptians to live, Ethiopia (with its Israeli advisers) has been doing exactly what Israel is doing with its Jewish colonies: building at a very rapid pace a gargantuan dam far larger than needed to fulfill Ethiopia's current or future energy or water needs, establishing "facts on the ground" while pretending to negotiate. I don't know how Egypt will deal with this existential threat, but if our government decides on war, then they've been offered no other choice. I fervently hope the Ethiopian government will come to its senses.

[Nordic]

It's not hard to destroy a dam. I mean, if you're a nation state with jet fighters and what not.

[AlicetheKurious]

It's not hard to destroy a dam. I mean, if you're a nation state with jet fighters and what not.

It's not that simple, Nordic. The Ethiopian "Renaissance" Dam is just one of many minefields that the Zio-Anglo empire has planted around and inside Egypt, while escalating the provocations to push Egypt into a response that would play directly into the enemy's hands. Egypt has been targeted for destruction, one way or another. But it's not going to happen.

[Iamwhomiam]

Hi Alice. I've been following the thread, but have little to offer. I would think that Egypt must have been guaranteed by Ethiopia to continue to provide ample water supply during the dam's construction and ever after.

I'm well aware of Israel's plan to capture all of the Jordan's flow, but that's not really relevant to this situation, excepting the politics, which you've claimed are quite alike. Why would Ethiopia want to damage Egypt politically?

I'm rather naive with regard to Egyptian - Ethiopian relations, so please do not take this offensively.

[AlicetheKurious]

Hi Alice. I've been following the thread, but have little to offer. I would think that Egypt must have been guaranteed by Ethiopia to continue to provide ample water supply during the dam's construction and ever after.

I'm well aware of Israel's plan to capture all of the Jordan's flow, but that's not really relevant to this situation, excepting the politics, which you've claimed are quite alike. Why would Ethiopia want to damage Egypt politically?

I'm rather naive with regard to Egyptian - Ethiopian relations, so please do not take this offensively.

The short answer is that Ethiopia has allowed itself over the past several decades to become a proxy for Israel in Africa, at a great cost to other African nations.

[AlicetheKurious]

This is a recorded fragment I came across, of what is clearly a longer discourse by Saudi Prince Talal bin Abdel-Aziz Al Saud, brother to the current king and father of the billionaire international businessman Waleed Ibn Talal bin Abdel-Aziz Al Saud. It indicates that there are at least some at the highest levels of the Saudi ruling class who understand very well what's going on.

Though Prince Talal is not in the circle of government power, I have a feeling that what he says below will be fleshed out and on the agenda of discussions between Saudi King Salman and Vladimir Putin, during the former's upcoming visit to Russia.

I've translated it for you, to the best of my ability:

Peace be upon you, and God's mercy and blessings.

There's a lot of talk about what's going on between Iran and Saudi Arabia, and the reason behind it. My personal, personal opinion, is that the Saudi escalation is doomed to failure. Why? Because Saudi Arabia has now opened a third front for itself, in addition to the Syria and Iraq front, and the southern front with Yemen, and now it's opened a third front with the Shi'a, and with Iran specifically. Wisdom would have dictated that Saudi Arabia first close the two files, the Syrian and Yemeni files, and only then confront Iran, if it wants to. That's the problem. But Saudi Arabia reckoned that opening this third front will strengthen its position in the Syrian/Iraqi and in the Yemeni fronts. I consider this a kind of political suicide. That is what I believe.

Concerning the execution of Nimr [Sheikh Nimr, a Shi'a cleric from Saudi Arabia's eastern province whom the Saudis executed last January -- Alice], Nimr could have remained a convicted prisoner for the next 20 years, for example, without executing him and without that provocation on the first of January, the opening of the New Year. And we know his standing, not only among Shi'a, but also among Sunnis. Regardless of whether we agree or disagree with him, he is a learned man and highly respected among those of his sect and among Sunnis, let's admit it, and among many people from other sects, and among those who know him. The proof is all the testimonies and the protests we've all heard, and note that it was the Sunni waqf [a "waqf" is a Muslim religious foundation -- Alice] in Iraq, and not the Shi'a in Iraq who demanded his release. Notice that. And there were indications that, in fact, he was on the verge of being released. Nevertheless, ???????????????? and the execution took place.

In any case, back to the region: as I see it, there will be no military confrontation in Iraq, because militarily the two sides are very unequal in strength. Saudi Arabia has been badly depleted militarily in Yemen, and financially in Syria and Iraq. It's finished. Therefore military confrontation is not likely, because of these two factors: Iran's readiness and strength, and Saudi Arabia's weakness.

But there's a time bomb, called the sectarian bomb. Saudi Arabia has been doing its utmost to provoke the Shi'a, and thus to portray itself as targeted by all the Shi'a, and thereby to mobilize those who are hesitant among the Sunnis. Note this well. Because it has ?????????? of Sunnis, under the banner of the "Iranian project" and "Shi'a expansionism" and that sort of thing. But if there really began to be a movement and a mobilization of Shi'a, in an organized way, as a reaction, then Saudi Arabia would appear to be the victim. And it would be able to call upon and mobilize those Sunnis who are hesitant, and convince them that there really is a threat against the Land of the Two Holy Shrines, and against the ministries that govern the holy places, and all that. That's one point. And if Saudi Arabia succeeds in that point, and in mobilizing and inciting the hesitant Sunnis, and creating a real Sunni movement against the Shi'a, this will be exploited -- take note! -- this will be exploited in the future to implement the same scenario against all the Muslim sects, that Saudi Arabia doesn't like, such as the Zaydis and the Aybadis, the Malikites and the Shawafe', and the Hanifites. This is being planned for the future.

In the next phase after that, this same scenario will be used for an Islamic-Orthodox war for the purpose of weakening Russia, according to the Western plan, and for an Islamic-Buddhist war using the Rohingya in Burma. Burma, my brothers, is very close to Tibet, where the Dalai Lama is based. Tibet is isolated from the rest of China, and China can become embroiled and weakened by conflicts involving the Uighurs and the Muslim minorities whose origins are Turkish. The role will be shared by Saudi Arabia and Turkey, but will proceed according to Western planning. Neither Turkey nor Saudi Arabia have any interests of their own there, but they act according to the Western plan. Ultimately, they are nothing more than tools for implementing the Western agenda.

That is one point. But there is another, equally black point: what is to prevent, my brothers, what is to prevent the West from using the Shi'a -- since they refused the West's offer to give them their own state, according to Hezbullah's Secretary-General Sayyid Hassan Nasrallah...he said that the Shi'a were offered their own state in Saudi Arabia's eastern province, and that they refused, because they are against the fragmentation of the Saudi state. They have demands and grievances, but from within the framework of the Saudi state, at least for the time being. What is to prevent a sleeper cell there, by Western-ordered false-flag explosions and terrorism, to give the West a pretext to invade and occupy the eastern province as a first step towards the fragmentation of Saudi Arabia? They could go through Aramco and occupy the surrounding area, and that area contains 90% of Saudi oil resources and a majority of the world's resources, which are exported to foreign markets. What would remain is very little, some along the Kuwaiti border, and some in the United Arab Emirates. From that point, the fragmentation of Saudi Arabia will spread, producing a Najd state, a Shi'a state, a Hijaz state, a separate "Holy State", and Greater Jordan, with Jordan expanding into northern Saudi Arabia, and a return of Saudi Arabia's southern regions to Yemen, as was the case in the Idrissi state in 1934.

Ok, when you look at what's happening in Yemen and the prolongation of the war there, it becomes clear that the matter was planned. It's unfolding according to a scenario. The silence that greeted the entry of the Ansarullah and their rapid spread into and threats against Najran and Jizan and (??????) [regions inside southern Saudi Arabia -- Alice] makes it clear that this was not a coincidence. It was planned, laying the groundwork for the scenario that is to be implemented in the future, in which multiple fronts will be opened, available for multiple parties to enter the fray and maneuver to deplete and exhaust Saudi Arabia in first one and then the other.

[zangtang]

not a lot to look forward to.....................

should have been an arms dealer.

[AlicetheKurious]

not a lot to look forward to.....................

should have been an arms dealer.

On the contrary: this sort of thing gives me a lot of hope. Conspiracies only work in the dark, and so do traps. It seems pretty much everyone knows what's going on, and a lot of good people are working very hard to ensure it fails.

[tapitsbo]

Yes and beyond all the ominous tidings about Sunni-Shi'a conflict I seem to have met an awful lot of Sunni Muslims here in Canada who are vocal in their loathing of the Saudis, Wahhabists, even Erdogan's government...

[AlicetheKurious]

Yes and beyond all the ominous tidings about Sunni-Shi'a conflict I seem to have met an awful lot of Sunni Muslims here in Canada who are vocal in their loathing of the Saudis, Wahhabists, even Erdogan's government...

Personally, I loathe the Saudi system and the ugly and evil Wahhabist cult it promotes, but not the Saudi people, and I certainly don't want to see the Saudi state collapse and take the entire region with it. I want the government to come to its senses and break free of the Zio-American shackles, and become accountable to its own people only. Maybe Putin can help.

[zangtang]

I don't wave a flag, but i've got some time for team Putin - if only he weren't so bloody expansionist......creeping up & encroaching on
those poor unsuspecting encircling NATO bases...........

fuuuvking liberty of the man.

[Sounder]

I've translated it for you, to the best of my ability:

I da no Alice, that fellow sounds a lot like you; You sure you're not being a bit liberal with your translation?

But seriously, what leader wants to be responsible for stuff while their society is falling apart? (Oh right, the psychopaths)




(trouble)
Alice wrote...

On the contrary: this sort of thing gives me a lot of hope. Conspiracies only work in the dark, and so do traps. It seems pretty much everyone knows what's going on, and a lot of good people are working very hard to ensure it fails.

I agree, there are signals coming from several quarters that the zio-imperialist plans may experience a total collapse.

One can dream anyway.

[Iamwhomiam]

Thanks, Alice. I don't want to distract away from the topic, which I believe will become a class struggle eventually, if it's not already, but I want to share a few links about the Grand Ethiopian Renaissance Dam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Ethiopian_Renaissance_Dam



Ethiopia rejects Egypt’s proposal to redesign Nile Dam
http://www.sudantribune.com/spip.php?article57682

This last link, like I, opposes the damming of rivers

https://www.internationalrivers.org/campaigns/grand-ethiopian-renaissance-dam

Considering Egypt had been granted by two old treaties veto power over any up-river projects, it is a curiosity that the dam's construction proceeds. Most images show only the outflow area, which does not give one its full mile-long scale.



Whoops! I wanted to add I think this issue deserves its own thread. That's all.

[Occult Means Hidden]

...Egypt will never tell King Salman, or anyone else, to "fuck off"; neither will Egypt or the Egyptian army do any other country's bidding. In any case, Egypt will not send ground troops into either Yemen or Syria.

.

This comes across as faith. Never a good idea to have faith in the good intentions of a country. It's odd of course because Egypt's man in charge has overseen America's bidding, torturing under the extraordinary rendition program, after being trained by their military analysts. The Egyptain people and their nation, like any other are subject to manipulation.