Angry White People

[Joe Hillshoist]

Oh please Joe, I’m talking about destabilizing nation states, creating new needs and opportunities (to restore security) for fascists, wahhabists and such like to destroy an existing govt. and be imperial puppets for the next, as in Ukraine currently and as the delusional hoped for outcome in Syria and Egypt.

And what does that have to do with the OP?

You said that hate stems from insecurity - in that case the ongoing insecurity is caused by white people seeing black people on the street being treated normally, like humans.

Your response is to go on about colour revolutions? Do you ever think about the words you use and the context you use them in?

or

Do you just see AD has posted something, think "Aha, Now's my chance" (again) and go all BF Skinner ... "Globalists, colour revolutions, Ukraine, Egypt, CiA, sqwark, soros, squark"???

In what way is that any better than what you think AD is doing?

[Iamwhomiam]

Here's an angry white guy:

[Sounder]

AD wrote...

These endless stories of white victimization seem so misguided to me.

I assume that you are referring to the goings on in the manosphere and other social media outlets. Yes, I agree, that is one reason to stick with RI so as not to have to hear the misguided self-indulgent crap.

Yes, something is wrong but it seems to me like the whiteness- much less the beating up on immigrants and dark skinned people- is mostly itself a big fucking distraction.

Yes it is, so why do we maintain so many threads about 'whiteness'?

A pernicious one too- because it might lead one to believe that so-called white people all have the same basic interests at heart when really, they do not.

Yes, the whiteness is mostly itself a big fucking distraction. If race is largely social construct perhaps we would be better off focusing on what does the constructing rather than the dysfunctional offshoots of the constructions. (The mechanical philosophy perfects the othering process.)

[jakell]

Oh please Joe, I’m talking about destabilizing nation states, creating new needs and opportunities (to restore security) for fascists, wahhabists and such like to destroy an existing govt. and be imperial puppets for the next, as in Ukraine currently and as the delusional hoped for outcome in Syria and Egypt.

And what does that have to do with the OP?

You said that hate stems from insecurity - in that case the ongoing insecurity is caused by white people seeing black people on the street being treated normally, like humans.

Your response is to go on about colour revolutions? Do you ever think about the words you use and the context you use them in?

or

Do you just see AD has posted something, think "Aha, Now's my chance" (again) and go all BF Skinner ... "Globalists, colour revolutions, Ukraine, Egypt, CiA, sqwark, soros, squark"???

In what way is that any better than what you think AD is doing?

It's what I call giving something the 'RI treatment', sometimes it works, sometimes it seems a distraction but really it's all about framing, and all frames IMO are good as long as they are defined and understood ie, they don't have to be competitive.
This is what I meant when I was praising Searcher's angle on 'antifascism' re Soros, I've never really considered that as it is different to my own frame.

So, a lot of us will take different things from Benjamin Zephaniah's piece depending on our own experiences, as a fair bit of what he talks of is personally familiar to me I'm sort of able to start from there and he's certainly drawn my attention back to some pre BNP stuff. Have a watch of that NF documentary if you can and I'd be interested in what was happening in your part of the world in that respect. This really speaks to what I have been saying about appreciating those 'different nationalisms' and how it is a tactical error to assume that there is this homogeneous white nationalism all over the world.

[Nordic]

I saw a story earlier today, but now I can't find it, where "a study" showed that white people believe they are victims of racism far more than black people.

Now that's seriously fucked up.

Of course, my son and I like to go through the news and find examples of "study says ......." stories. A lot of them are laughable.

Still. That any white person in America would think that (unless they live on an Indian reservation or in the middle of The Hood) borders on insane.

[American Dream]

It seems to me that the obsession with victimizations scripts from all those holding at least somewhat greater social power than other layers/segments/castes/groupings is at least two-fold: It justifies the violence that is fomented and perpetrated every day and it serves to avoid taking account for the human effects of that violence in the real, dehumanizing and belittling the people affected, be they immigrants, blacks, women, or whomever else.

It seems like this is the point, both consciously and unconsciously.

[Nordic]

It justifies violence, yes, but I don't think that's conscious. I think these people are just a bunch of big babies, scared of everything outside of their white suburban cul-de-sacs, and are terrified that anyone "different" might be lurking out in the world, and that the "different" people are actually getting power, and they're loud, and they're getting attention.

So, guns guns guns. Take your guns to the WalMart and let your kid hold them while you shop, because you never know when one of those scary people is gonna pop up and want to butcher you like ISIS.

[jakell]

It seems to me that the obsession with victimizations scripts from all those holding at least somewhat greater social power than other layers/segments/castes/groupings is at least two-fold: It justifies the violence that is fomented and perpetrated every day and it serves to avoid taking account for the human effects of that violence in the real, dehumanizing and belittling the people affected, be they immigrants, blacks, women, or whomever else.

It seems like this is the point, both consciously and unconsciously.

I reckon you are bemoaning the use of this by the Right, but they have outwardly stated that they will borrow and use Leftist tendencies (ie victimisation scripts) when and where it suits them, ie, it's hardly unconscious or obsessive, it's the use of a tested technique.
This is not the only thing they have borrowed.

You still have made no reference to the opening article here (unless you are getting around to it), in which case you are disrespecting it by using it as wallpaper.

[Wombaticus Rex]

I saw a story earlier today, but now I can't find it, where "a study" showed that white people believe they are victims of racism far more than black people.

Now that's seriously fucked up.

News coverage of statistics is just as mangled and lifeless as their attempts at discussing science or culture or reality. But the original surveys are quite interesting.

For instance, late last year there was a great YouGov survey on politics and race -- PDF link here -- which absolutely everyone managed to fuck up their articles on, it was kind of beautiful to witness. I really have to wonder how Journalism Schools can still exist if these conglomerates are just going to keep having interns do all the actual writing. To the credit of those zany kids, though, a lot of the headlines in the wake of the YouGov survey were something along the lines of "White Folk Say Black Folk is Takers" and that is...accurate.



Methodology wrinkle of note:

Respondents were asked to identify which class they consider themselves. 45% of white Americans identify as working class while 52% identify as middle class. There is very little difference between working class whites (49%) and middle class whites (51%) in how likely they are to view black Americans as 'takers'.

That's because I bet there is very little difference in household income & education between those two self-identified categories, which probably map in Venn diagram format as two overlapping circles.

One of the more curious wrinkles there was about identity...

White Americans (38%) are much less likely than either black Americans (83%) or Hispanics (62%) to say that their racial identity is important to them. There is very little difference between working class (38%) and middle class (40%) whites on this issue, though conservative whites (44%) are slightly more likely than liberal whites (37%) to say that their race is important to them.

Seems like focusing on white people might not be the best solution to addressing racism, based on that little clusterfuck. Crackers are out here really trying to be post-Racial. Don't interrupt the process.

For another classic journey down WTF Lane that you'd probably enjoy with your young kin, this OK Cupid summary on their user statistics is legendary stuff: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/race- ... 2009-2014/

[seemslikeadream]

does that include Irish as white?

[General Patton]

Seems like focusing on white people might not be the best solution to addressing racism, based on that little clusterfuck. Crackers are out here really trying to be post-Racial. Don't interrupt the process.

Whoa whoa hold up.

We need to address racism by whites with just as much, if not with more prejudice than other racial groups. White racists need to be named and shamed. And their tweets should be broadcast nationwide and put in nationally circulated newspapers. And get them fired from their jobs, email campaigns work well for that.

If you see something say something.

There's no reason to stop now that we've almost won.

For another classic journey down WTF Lane that you'd probably enjoy with your young kin, this OK Cupid summary on their user statistics is legendary stuff: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/race- ... 2009-2014/

Lot's of young people have internalized white supremacy's doctrine.

[Nordic]

Well I'd have to say that physical attraction isn't necessarily based on anything rational, or conscious, or even conditioned.

My personal racial preferences for women seem to be for women who are quite unlike me. For whatever that's worth. Honestly, women who look like they could be from my immediate family don't interest me sexually. They seem too much like my sister and my mother.

But black women usually don't do it for me. Sometimes they do. I like women who are half-something. Half Arab, half latino, half Japanese, half American indian, as long as the one half is dark-haired with olive skin and the other half is "white", well, those seem to push my buttons. When I was a tiny child I remember the female figure who "did it for me" was that girl at the end of the animated Jungle Book, where Mowgli sees that girl fetching water and runs off to follow her, completely lovestruck. That was me.

So I don't think an OK Cupid preference list of statistics really holds much meaning. The shape of the key that fits into a person's padlock of lust can be anything, really.

[Wombaticus Rex]

So I don't think an OK Cupid preference list of statistics really holds much meaning.

Good point, it's not like sexual selection drives anything important.

[Nordic]

So I don't think an OK Cupid preference list of statistics really holds much meaning.

Good point, it's not like sexual selection drives anything important.

Well. For politics and basic race relations. In fact, I'll bet half of those white guys who hate blacks REALLY have a strong attraction to black chicks (and maybe to the black men). Which is probably why they hate them even more irrationally. Those guys are fucked up.

[tapitsbo]

My perception is that the term "racism" in this century is mostly not used about "hate" but about a serious of conflicts over who should have the authority to constitute an "ethnicity" or at times a broader identity, inevitably shading into matters like how kinship and filiation and their relationship to the state, religion etc. or epistemic issues related to history and its transmission, etc.

Many groups and individuals are going to express feelings besides "hate" in relation to these issues. What's more, "victimhood" is not the only expression of identity or difference in play in the world today - readings of these discussions that simply seek to correct a balance of victimhood, in one way or another, are not attentive to potential aspects of the future that are not solely tragic.