tapitsbo » 01 Mar 2016 18:09 wrote:FourthBase an idea I'm getting from what you're saying that I have to agree with is this: people who argue what the state does is irrelevant, because anarchy, or for other reasons, come across as deeply disingenuous when they are themselves deeply embedded in its programs and practices. We can talk about what different governments are doing as they clearly aren't all doing the same things. Who is really putting forwards false equivalencies in these situations?
Forgive me if a lot of the noise around the issues sounds like it comes down to an esoteric message of "never talk about or question what the government/institutions/establishment is doing"
Not just disingenuous. It's not about you rebels being hypocrites by living aligned with systems you only intellectually or theatrically reject. It's you rebels getting pretty much exactly what you actually wish for in the way of undoing the system but then reflexively still interpreting it as a sinister plan of the system by the system to advance the system. Coercive Engineered Migration: The Left's War on Europe. How does the crisis not also suit that title? What more could a Marxist want, really? How much better could the crisis have been set up to destabilize the West? Serious non-rhetorical questions. My point: There's more than one thing happening at once in the same crisis, there are opposite agendas creating and benefitting from the same thing, your side's agenda included and no less potent, and the left is getting its way just as much as all the usual anti-left villains. And not just in an idealistic counter-productive naive idiot way, the left's version of coincidence theorizing, where well-meaning leaders and orgs try to help but make shit worse or get tripped up by cunning bullies. No. I mean in a collusive, coercive, devious, manipulative, dishonest, even darkhearted way...just like the bad guys' way.
Joe wrote:Radical islam may be co opted but that doesn't mean the motivations of young people who are angry at injustice are wrong.
And if it weren't coopted, what do you imagine those young people would be doing instead? Not warring with the West? Warring with the West but more gently? If 9/11 had been, improbable shock of all shocks, 100% an uncoopted grassroots operation of young people angry at injustice, would you have criticized their motivations?
The CIA and Mossad didn't write the Quran or ahadith. Neoliberals don't have jurisdiction over the world's uniformly-barbaric Islamic religious authorities. The left, though, is quite understanding of and accommodating to radical Islam's critiques of and fury at the West. "These poor oppressed souls are being framed for this evil...but if they did do it, they were justified." Right?