TRUMP is seriously dangerous

[Belligerent Savant]

.
Racists for TRUMP:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/snl-cuts-sli ... mpaign-ad/

[Nordic]

This is fucking brilliant.

https://medium.com/@emmalindsay/trump-s ... .nwpynhmm2

My social groups are split on who they want to vote for. While most of them are #FeelingTheBern, many of them are coming around to old Hilda Baggins. Because I’m English and can’t vote in the US, I’ve avoided emotional investment in either one. Consequently, I’ve been listening with impassivity as people explain the superiority of their candidate.
One thing that has been interesting to me is people use a rhetoric on other democrats that is similar to what they use on republicans. I just read this comment on facebook:
There is NO logical reason Hillary Clinton should be beating Bernie Sanders by such large margins. I’m left to believe that 1) these voters think they’re getting Bill Clinton, Part 2 or 2) they have fallen prey to the worst of logical fallacies — Hillary is a woman; therefore, she will effect policy and cultural change for both women and minorities.
Here’s the thing, I know plenty of Clinton supporters and they’re not dumb. The Clinton supporters I personally know tend to be male programmers capable of rational thought who have spoken to me at length about the policy differences between Bill and Hillary. The most frequently cited reason I’ve heard for voting for Hillary is that people perceive her to be more electable against a republican candidate. How electable either candidate will be against Trump is unknowable, but to vote based on a best guess given the information you know is not illogical. It is necessary.
If you’re a Sanders supporter and you want to win over Clinton supporters, you’re going to have to address the reasons they’re voting for Clinton. And, if you assume that Clinton supporters are too dumb to know what’s best for them, if you assume you know what they need better than they do, then you are wrong. Your arguments will be patronizing, and you will remain unconvincing.
Which, brings me to how we talk about Trump supporters. While the majority of democrats I know do tend to keep it civil with each other, nearly all of them will rail on “ignorant” republicans who “vote against their own best interests.” Thing is, Trump supporters don’t vote against their best interests, democrats just don’t understand the interest they care about most.
It’s dignity.
One of my favorite stories is Mike DeStefano interview about going on a motorcycle ride with his dying wife. It’s a beautiful, you should read it or listen to it. Anyway, at some point he says:
[Dying] people, they feel “I’m alive.” They pass away at one moment. Until that moment, they are alive, and they want to be loved, and they want to give and share, you know.
Until that moment, they want to give and share. Giving and sharing is as important to life as being loved.
We are depriving the white working classes of their means to give. As we export manufacturing jobs internationally and as we streamline labor with technology, we start moving people to the sidelines. It’s not just that they have less money, it’s that their identity as providers is being threatened. This is why they are often so against welfare. Even if it would fix their financial situation, it would not fix their identity problems. It would hurt their dignity. While the working class is undoubtedly worried about the economy, we already know many will not vote in their economic best interests. They vote for the candidate who promises a return to dignity, and it’s not because they’re dumb. It’s because they care about their dignity more than they care about their finances.
Which, by the way, directly ties in to how they are racist. Not all Trump supporters are necessarily racist, but a fair number of them explicitly are. Normally, when liberals talk about racism, they use “racist” as an end point. “Trump is racist” is, by itself, a reason not to vote for him, and “being racist” is an indicator of a person who is morally deficient.
But, if you don’t take this as an end point — if you instead ask “what do people get out of being racist?” — you’ll start to unravel the emotional motivations behind it. One of the best unpacking of this I have read is Matt Bruenig’s piece Last Place Avoidance and Poor White Racism. To summarize, no one wants to occupy the “last” place in society. No one wants to be the most despised. As long as racism remains intact, poor white people are guaranteed not to be “the worst.” If racism is ever truly dismantled, then poor white people will occupy the lowest rung of society, and the shame of occupying this position is very painful. This shame is so painful, that the people at risk of feeling it will vote on it above all other issues.
Liberals, especially white liberals, like to believe in the moral superiority of the “not racist” (which presumably includes them.) And, I agree we need to aspire to a “less racist” America, but I disagree that it is useful to think of racism as a personal moral failure. It can be, but thinking of it this way blocks progress.
The main difference between a white racist and a white “race ally” is usually social group. Marc Zuckerberg recently reprimanded some of his employees for crossing out “Black Lives Matter” and replacing it with “All Lives Matter” but of course he did. The internet went wild congratulating him, but this was not a courageous act for him. It may have been a morally correct act, but it was not a brave one. His social group rewards overt “anti-racist” behavior so being overtly “anti-racist” will only enhance his social standing.
On the other hand, for some poor white communities, solidifying racism seems like a quicker path to enhancing their social status than activism. Ironically, many white racists and white allies have the same motivation in their hearts — to look good to their peers. Yet, white allies tend to get blocked around this because it is painful to admit they have similar motivations to white racists. At least, it is painful for me to admit.
Yet, the fact that we are similarly motivated — white racists, white allies, and people of color alike — is the key to fixing this whole mess. We must find ways for the working class to maintain its dignity, we must find a way for them to have jobs that are satisfying to them, we must find a way for them to contribute to culture. We must find a way for them to feel heard. Which, by the way, are the exact same goals we need to have for oppressed races. We all need the same thing, and until we find a way to give it to more people, we will fight each other for it.
And, America is terrible at giving its citizens dignity and meaning. We have, with the internet, the power for more people to be appreciated than ever before, yet we use it primarily to shame each other. Shaming Trump supporters for being “ignorant bigots” is the worst thing you can do, because their entire motivation in voting for Trump is to alleviate the shame they are already carrying. If you add to their shame, they will dig in further.
It is, obviously, difficult to think about ways to reduce shame on a national level but we have to start finding ways to have more appreciation for each other, even those we disagree with. At the most basic level we can start by not explicitly shaming people. We can stop calling them ignorant. We can stop mocking them on the internet. We can stop calling them out on twitter. Unless they happen to be Martin Shkreli, then it’s ok.

[Searcher08]

Thank you for that, Nordic - fabulous stuff.

One thing that seems to be never mentioned is about the people who Trump would have alongside him if he was elected. Is he going to conduct a Cabinet Apprentice on reality tv? Judging by the opulence that he lives in, I would imagine his major focus would be re-branding DC as the Trump House and covering his office in gold leaf, rather than policy. He would want to make "deals" he can crow about but his experience is business, and his record in running those once set-up appears pretty poor. Is it actually going to be a Presidency of vanity "megaprojects" - like the Mexican Wall without thought-through organisation and infrastructure?

[tapitsbo]

Whatever candidate wins, I have a not-so-good feeling that theirs will be the presidency of stage-managed crisis

[brekin]

Thank you for that, Nordic - fabulous stuff.

One thing that seems to be never mentioned is about the people who Trump would have alongside him if he was elected. Is he going to conduct a Cabinet Apprentice on reality tv? Judging by the opulence that he lives in, I would imagine his major focus would be re-branding DC as the Trump House and covering his office in gold leaf, rather than policy. He would want to make "deals" he can crow about but his experience is business, and his record in running those once set-up appears pretty poor. Is it actually going to be a Presidency of vanity "megaprojects" - like the Mexican Wall without thought-through organisation and infrastructure?

Yeah, I think if Trump gets elected, (god did I just say type that?), his megaprojects will be the cause of his fifth bankruptcy when he drives his USA Inc. completely into the red. Beginning of his Man in the High Trump Tower term he'll probably have everybody with a hardhat employed building colossal federal projects and then like most fly by night contractors he'll try and cut and run when it is time to pay all the suppliers and subcontractors. And then he'll have the impetus he'll need to go to war, with whoever for whatevs and whatnot to be a truly autocratic ruler, cough, executive in chief.

Recently found out an elderly acquaintance is going to vote for Trump, after voting for Nader, Kerry, Obama, etc. and being virulent anti-Bush, anti-corporation, anti-organized religion and seemingly progressive for years. They've done a ton of research on him so this isn't a knee jerk poll pull, I would of assumed them going for Bernie, or Hilary at least. It goes without saying they are in a demographic that would probably be decimated if he got elected across the board in a dozen different rubrics.

If I had to hazard why they are for Trump, it probably comes down to a combination of an unexamined true loathing for the masses and a desire for an autocrat who humiliates and can do whatever he wants, or to be more to the point, says whatever he wants. All the policy points, progressive agendas, etc. I think get tiresome after awhile and some people just want to see real change, even if it is nasty, dirty change. Obama's faux legacy is he was the noble diverse king who failed, when he really was never much the king. Trump isn't either, and good luck to him if he gets elected and tries to get anything implemented or passed but he does express the frustration and rage that many feel with the system. While others can tell you what could or should be done to change things, Trump just says its stupid and the people running it are morons. As life gets more complex and harder and people don't want to or can't parse the minutiae or meta, I think that message, Shit is fucked up!, is going to very appealing to many.





"Stuff Is Messed Up"

Now I don’t know, and it’s hard to explain
But it seems like things are just kind of insane
Because the world is crying
But nobody’s listening
So please leave a message on my cell phone

I see bullets getting better
Biblical weather
And that guy on TV is like a total asshole

Who are you wearing tonight?
Celebrity fundraiser, tight!
Black ties making wrongs right
How’s your social Band-Aid?

I don’t know much
I don’t know too much
But I know this
Shit is fucked up!

I guess it’s all about the dream
The ends justify the means
I'm telling you, shit is fucked up!
You know it’s all about the dream
The ends justify the means

Now thank god for the media, for saving the day
Putting it all into perspective in a responsible way
With more celebrity news
Typical bullshit views
I think we’re losing this fight
Sponsored by Bud Light

And now we’re rockin’ the casbah
And taking the flak
The genie’s out of the bottle, and we can’t put it back
All this stuff
It’s overwhelming my brain
Can you see the storm comin’?
It’s coming this way

I don’t know much
I don’t know too much
But I know this
Shit is fucked up!

I guess it’s all about the dream
The ends justify the means
I'm telling you, shit is fucked up!
You know it’s all about the dream
The ends justify the means
Justify the means

Shopping Sprees, RPG’s
Ecstasy
Atrophy
Genocide
Pimp my ride
Politize
Euphemize
Injustice everywhere
Apathy
I don’t care
Hurricanes
Climate change
Huh!

Therapy, I won’t tell
Rehab and LOL
Worldwide calamity
TV Reality
Euthanize, supersize
Death squads and boob jobs
VIP infamy
Gratify instantly

I don’t know much
I don’t know too much
I don’t know much
I don’t know too much

I guess it’s all about the dream
The ends justify the means
I'm telling you, shit is fucked up!
You know it’s all about the dream
The ends justify the means
The means
The means

[Freitag]

Am I the only one here voting for Trump then?

[brekin]

Am I the only one here voting for Trump then?

No, there are probably others, but only you can tell us why.

Why?

[seemslikeadream]

I would never vote for him because he is a racist asshole...a liar and a con artist...


if anyone thinks he can "bring back America" or shake up the system ...I'd like to know what that means and how he would really do that

oh yea and he likes torture too


and I hope they have open carry at the republican convention...conceal carry would be ok also

[Freitag]

Am I the only one here voting for Trump then?

No, there are probably others, but only you can tell us why.

Why?

Well I wish the others would speak up.

The reason I will vote for him is that I agree with all of these positions: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions

[seemslikeadream]

what about his position on torturing people?

what about his position of being a serial liar?

what about his position on being a bigot?

what about his position on having a huge penis?

You do know he is a liar don't you?

How can you believe anything he says?

You do know he can't do any of those things he has on that website

You do know if he was elected he would not have the powers of a dictator?

[82_28]

Somebody should ask drumpf to write those blurbs himself now.

[seemslikeadream]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg0pO9VG1J8

[seemslikeadream]

Trump on torture: 'We have to beat the savages'

Trump on waterboarding: 'Nobody knows if it's torture'

[Wombaticus Rex]

Well I wish the others would speak up.

The reason I will vote for him is that I agree with all of these positions: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions

I would absolutely vote for Trump over Clinton.

The fact I live in Vermont renders any vote pretty meaningless, it will go to either Clinton or Sanders.

[Freitag]

You do know he can't do any of those things he has on that website

You do know if he was elected he would not have the powers of a dictator?

Then what are you worried about?

Well I wish the others would speak up.

The reason I will vote for him is that I agree with all of these positions: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions

I would absolutely vote for Trump over Clinton.

The fact I live in Vermont renders any vote pretty meaningless, it will go to either Clinton or Sanders.

I hear ya. I have the same problem in California. My vote hasn't counted in a long time, and won't until we can set up the state of Jefferson.