How Bad Is Global Warming?

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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Elihu » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:52 pm

Iamwhomiam wrote:The monies raised by such a tax would go to lower costs for transitioning to renewable energy.


what guarantees can i give you Michael????????????????? you give me too much credit kid.

I just did my taxes! Help!


i too through my agents just "helped" some people, and literally killed others. i'm sure mistakes have been made : ( was left out of the decision loop in both cases. should we be concerned?

Sometimes there is no intelligent way to overcome the ignorance of people with fantastic prejudices.
willful blindness is tough too....
But take heart, because I have overcome the world.” John 16:33
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Elihu » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:58 pm

Sometimes there is no intelligent way to overcome the ignorance of people with fantastic prejudices.
when intelligence fails the ignorant violent cops will finish the job for you. did you guys send in some extra voluntary money this year?
But take heart, because I have overcome the world.” John 16:33
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:06 pm

Elihu, perhaps you could break down for us how a carbon tax would be structured, how the monies collected would be allocated, what renewable energies would be eligible for funds, etc? Really, tell us what you know about a Carbon Tax.

In your mind is there any good tax?
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Sounder » Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:16 pm

Iam wrote...
Sometimes there is no intelligent way to overcome the ignorance of people with fantastic prejudices.


Ha, admit it Iam, you cannot deal with the substance of the post so you have to resort to slander. It is in fact true that;


This is an asset redistribution plan, from the poor to the already wealthy, same as the green revolution, the drug, terror and cancer wars.

It's all the same; rob the poor so that the rich can get their rent.

Get a clue, the US military does not give a fuck about Climate Change, nor do all the other rent seekers.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Elihu » Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:19 pm

the onus is on you my friend to explain first why you think these taxes would be handled differently than all that have gone before, and second, why anyone should believe this time is different..... unless they just want to believe....
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Elihu » Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:29 pm

tanks, planes, ships etc? ironically, if we paid less tax and they had to stop that _________ that's some good for your dollar. and we keep our dollars. who's an enemy of the state? and so it is...
Last edited by Elihu on Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby backtoiam » Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:07 pm

Iamwhomiam » Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:50 pm wrote:Sometimes there is no intelligent way to overcome the ignorance of people with fantastic prejudices.



Iamwhomiam

Please explain how a carbon tax, one tax among many, would bring about a perfected slave empire.


Because this might be the first massive sliding slope global tax in history? Without end?

prejudices, I do believe you that you are prejudice though. it fits.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby backtoiam » Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:10 pm

Iamwhomiam » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:26 pm wrote:Unfortunately, btia, that would penalize those who raise beef sustainably. (meaning pastured and grass fed.)

But it would be good to apply to cafos, concentrated animal feeding operations. Concentrated = Confined

Edited to correct my erroneous attributing of the Danish Beef Tax article to 82


Which "cattle" exactly? There are different kinds.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby DrEvil » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:13 am

Sounder » Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:42 am wrote:Well said Elihu, of course the Dr. has nothing to say about your main point which negates any good a tax might do.
what an incredible fantasy. it's never been about warming or not warming or cooling or melting or rising.


This is an asset redistribution plan, from the poor to the already wealthy, same as the green revolution, the drug, terror and cancer wars.

It's all the same; rob the poor so that the rich can get their rent.


So are you saying that global warming isn't real? That the thousands of scientists from all over the world are all in on a grand scheme to redistribute wealth from the poor to the rich?

Do you propose we do nothing, on the off chance that someone bad might get richer along the way?

I would really like to hear you spell out, in simple terms, what exactly your thoughts on global warming are. Is it real? A scam? What should we do about it if it's real?
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Sounder » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:55 am

You know, I like you Dr. Evil because you engage without the personal innuendo that seems to be de rigor in the posts of a few others.


So are you saying that global warming isn't real?

Nope, it's no less real than agriculture, drugs, terror or cancer. The alleged 'solutions' for the issues is the thing that is not real.

That the thousands of scientists from all over the world are all in on a grand scheme to redistribute wealth from the poor to the rich?

Nope, but they are doing jobs where there is a massive inclination to non objectively respond to social signaling influences that provides those jobs and a belief in ones own self-righteousness and self-image. The result is to rob the poor and give to the rich. "Charlie Browns" do not do grand schemes they simply get sucked in.

Do you propose we do nothing, on the off chance that someone bad might get richer along the way?

I do feel that a focus on actual environmental toxins would provide better service to our precious Earth.

I would really like to hear you spell out, in simple terms, what exactly your thoughts on global warming are. Is it real? A scam? What should we do about it if it's real?

The only 'thing' that will do anything about our 'problems' is to heal the split in our psyches that justifies coercive manipulation in the name of what is 'good' and necessary. Our acquisitive mentality got us into this mess and an acquisitive mentality can be no cure for an acquisitive mentality.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Luther Blissett » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:13 am

Controversial opinion: I believe that decreasing carbon emissions is good.
The Rich and the Corporate remain in their hundred-year fever visions of Bolsheviks taking their stuff - JackRiddler
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Burnt Hill » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:14 am

Are cows the cause of global warming?

A cow does on overage release between 70 and 120 kg of Methane per year. Methane is a greenhouse gas like carbon dioxide (CO2). But the negative effect on the climate of Methane is 23 times higher than the effect of CO2. Therefore the release of about 100 kg Methane per year for each cow is equivalent to about 2'300 kg CO2 per year.
Let's compare this value of 2'300 kg CO2: The same amount of carbon dioxide (CO2) is generated by burning 1'000 liters of petrol. With a car using 8 liters of petrol per 100 km, you could drive 12'500 km per year (7'800 miles per year).

World-wide, there are about 1.5 billion cows and bulls. All ruminants (animals which regurgitates food and re-chews it) on the world emit about two billion metric tons of CO2-equivalents per year. In addition, clearing of tropical forests and rain forests to get more grazing land and farm land is responsible for an extra 2.8 billion metric tons of CO2 emission per year!

According to the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO) agriculture is responsible for 18% of the total release of greenhouse gases world-wide (this is more than the whole transportation sector). Cattle-breeding is taking a major factor for these greenhouse gas emissions according to FAO. Says Henning Steinfeld, Chief of FAO's Livestock Information and Policy Branch and senior author of the report: "Livestock are one of the most significant contributors to today's most serious environmental problems. Urgent action is required to remedy the situation."

Livestock now use 30 percent of the earth's entire land surface, mostly permanent pasture but also including 33 percent of the global arable land used to producing feed for livestock, the report notes. As forests are cleared to create new pastures, it is a major driver of deforestation, especially in Latin America where, for example, some 70 percent of former forests in the Amazon have been turned over to grazing.



Are cows to blame for global warming? Are cattle the true cause for climate change?

We cannot deny that farming has a major impact on global warming. Since farming is basically serving the consumer's demand for food, we should look at our nourishment. With increased prosperity, people are consuming more meat and dairy products every year. Global meat production is projected to more than double from 229 million tonnes in 1999/2001 to 465 million tonnes in 2050, while milk output is set to climb from 580 to 1043 million tonnes.

A Japanese study showed that producing a kilogram of beef leads to the emission of greenhouse gases with a global warming potential equivalent to 36.4 kilograms of carbon dioxide (CO2). It also releases fertilising compounds equivalent to 340 grams of sulphur dioxide and 59 grams of phosphate, and consumes 169 megajoules of energy (Animal Science Journal, DOI: 10.1111/j.1740-0929.2007.00457.x). In other words, a kilogram of beef is responsible for the equivalent of the amount of CO2 emitted by the average European car every 250 kilometres, and burns enough energy to light a 100-watt bulb for nearly 20 days (New Scientist magazine, 18 July 2007, page 15 ).

The following tables indicates the CO2 production in kg CO2 equivalents per kg of meat depending on the animal:

1 kg of meat from
produces kg CO2e

beef 34.6
lamb 17.4
pork 6.35
chicken 4.57


Source: Environmental Impacts on Food Production and Consumption. http://www.defra.gov.uk/science/project ... 01_FRP.pdf



Conclusion: Eat less meat and dairy products

The most important conclusion for ourselves is: Eat much less meat and dairy products. This is one of the most effective ways to reduce our personal carbon footprint and to generally reduce our personal negative impact on the environment.

Finally a quote from Albert Einstein (Nobel prize 1921): Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.



Report from FAO: LIVESTOCK'S LONG SHADOW, environmental issues and options


http://timeforchange.org/are-cows-cause-of-global-warming-meat-methane-CO2
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Sounder » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:26 am

Controversial opinion: I believe that decreasing carbon emissions is good.


Ah, I missed the colon on the first read and was about to try to justify my controversial opinion. Now I see that (or wonder if) you are using slight sarcasm to suggest that some around here might think that decreasing carbon emissions would not be a good thing?

Perhaps you said it because it would be very, very controversial to disagree with your statement.

Here is the thing Luther. The green revolution justified itself with talk about ‘feeding the world’, when in fact what really happened was that input costs for raising crops went up driving poor farmers off their land. Pretty talk, opposite results.

The drug war has polluted the context in which drugs are consumed, (they have always been consumed, previously mostly in medicinal and sacramental contexts) creating more ‘problems’ with drugs than before war was started. But the PIC and other rent seekers, banks and drug dealers have done quite well.

Ditto the wars on Cancer and Terror.

It does surprise me that such ideation would be controversial and/or pushed aside by the majority of RI regulars.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:28 am

Sounder » Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:16 pm wrote:Iam wrote...
Sometimes there is no intelligent way to overcome the ignorance of people with fantastic prejudices.


Ha, admit it Iam, you cannot deal with the substance of the post so you have to resort to slander. It is in fact true that;


This is an asset redistribution plan, from the poor to the already wealthy, same as the green revolution, the drug, terror and cancer wars.

It's all the same; rob the poor so that the rich can get their rent.

Get a clue, the US military does not give a fuck about Climate Change, nor do all the other rent seekers.

I've slandered no one, Sounder. I've merely share my informed opinion, which I find completely truthful: "Sometimes there is no intelligent way to overcome the ignorance of people with fantastic prejudices."

This you find to be slanderous? It is simply a basic truth.

Funny you didn't complain about elihu not dealing with the substance of my post. I asked him to explain his comment, as did Dr. Evil, to "Please explain how a carbon tax, one tax among many, would bring about a perfected slave empire." I asked again,
"Elihu, perhaps you could break down for us how a carbon tax would be structured, how the monies collected would be allocated, what renewable energies would be eligible for funds, etc? Really, tell us what you know about a Carbon Tax.

In your mind is there any good tax?"


To this elihu responded,
the onus is on you my friend to explain first why you think these taxes would be handled differently than all that have gone before, and second, why anyone should believe this time is different..... unless they just want to believe....


elihu seems unable to answer such simple questions; to deal with the substance of my post, yet you give him a pass and then accuse me of not dealing with the substance of his post and of slandering him.

Some people only see what they want to.

Have a nice day, Sounder.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby DrEvil » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:28 am

Sounder » Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:55 pm wrote:You know, I like you Dr. Evil because you engage without the personal innuendo that seems to be de rigor in the posts of a few others.


So are you saying that global warming isn't real?

Nope, it's no less real than agriculture, drugs, terror or cancer. The alleged 'solutions' for the issues is the thing that is not real.


I guess we'll have to disagree. I think a carbon tax, as in a regular tax, not certificate voodoo, is one of the solutions necessary. Bake the cost of the carbon released into products and earmark those funds for subsidies to people who install solar panels, buy electric cars etc. Will that make some companies and its investors rich? Sure, and I have no problem with that.

That the thousands of scientists from all over the world are all in on a grand scheme to redistribute wealth from the poor to the rich?

Nope, but they are doing jobs where there is a massive inclination to non objectively respond to social signaling influences that provides those jobs and a belief in ones own self-righteousness and self-image. The result is to rob the poor and give to the rich. "Charlie Browns" do not do grand schemes they simply get sucked in.


I don't buy it. If their science isn't sound they get thrown to the wolves, regardless what side of the argument their science supports, and ultimately it's their results that count, not their motivations. There are plenty of selfish assholes out there doing good science.

Also - if someone could show that climate change isn't happening with sound reasoning and research people would be throwing money and Nobel prizes at them. No one actually wants climate change to be real, but the science keeps telling us it is.

Do you propose we do nothing, on the off chance that someone bad might get richer along the way?

I do feel that a focus on actual environmental toxins would provide better service to our precious Earth.


Dealing with one thing doesn't mean we can't deal with another too, but combating climate change is more important. It affects the entire ecosystem. Countries are literally disappearing beneath the waves and large chunks of land will become uninhabitable, resulting in mass migrations that will make the current refugee crisis look like peanuts. There's already a good argument that climate change is partially to blame for the Syrian war and exodus.

I would really like to hear you spell out, in simple terms, what exactly your thoughts on global warming are. Is it real? A scam? What should we do about it if it's real?

The only 'thing' that will do anything about our 'problems' is to heal the split in our psyches that justifies coercive manipulation in the name of what is 'good' and necessary. Our acquisitive mentality got us into this mess and an acquisitive mentality can be no cure for an acquisitive mentality.


Sure, but that's not going to work. Human nature is human nature, and we will continue to fuck things up like we've been doing since forever. There will always be assholes, psychopaths, narcissists and people who believe completely different things than you.
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