How Bad Is Global Warming?

[PufPuf93]

We're all being caught with our pants down. Hand-wringing, arguing, while the house burns down and collapses all around us.

We'll be remembered as really fucking stupid.

And we will not be forgiven.

Humanity at present is a minor blip and doomed.

The species will hang around for sometime but no where near as long as the dinosaurs.

We will get our own geologic age though, the Anthropocene, only there won't be geologists around to classify and interpret.

My outlook is quite cynical and powerless and gloomy.

Pretty much the worldview described in John Michael Greer's 'The Next Ten Billion years' (link to thread on here).

The difference being that his view isn't really cynical and gloomy, but tries to explore the upsides of such a thing. These are very hard to imagine for most people, but it's really about considering the competing tropes of immortality and near term extinction and finding both wanting.

The author of the above thread has provided me (in this thread) with a label for my own views... 'Climate Fatalism'. So thanks to him for that.

Great thread noted.

I had either missed or forgot.

The first 3 sentences of my post were are close kin to Climate fatalism.

The last sentence is more my own perception of the world today and even more so my personal situation.

I will be gone and have already essentially reached a near end state for climate change in my ebbing life save for catastrophic social collapse.

Agree with Nordic about the stupid. Look at the USA. We get to chose between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.

[backtoiam]

If it happens again it will probably happen like last time. Deep within the bowels of the earth some bipeds will survive. Then they will do this shit again.

[Elihu]

Yall quit trippin. Not saying u have to be happy but whole things been exaggerated. Jus sayin.

[DrEvil]

^^And you base that on what? Your gut feeling trumps the global scientific community?

[backtoiam]

Yall quit trippin. Not saying u have to be happy but whole things been exaggerated. Jus sayin.

Oh hell no. You ain't gonna rob me out of my warming panic. I earned this panic fair and square and i'm gonna wear it proudly. I'm in the warming hot tub and you can't make me get out. Not happening. I'm panicking whether you like it or not. I'm not getting out until Al Gore does.

[KUAN]

.

Oh hell no. You ain't gonna rob me out of my warming panic. I earned this panic fair and square and i'm gonna wear it proudly. I'm in the warming hot tub and you can't make me get out. Not happening. I'm panicking whether you like it or not. I'm not getting out until Al Gore does.

you can get a ticket thru the secret space program?

[Nordic]

It doesn't matter what any of us think of believe. It's gonna happen however it's gonna happen and nobody knows where it's going to lead. So we might as well STFU and fasten our seatbelts.

I started that other thread about where to go. I think that's the more interesting idea at this point, but there's really nothing to argue about, unlike this thread, where we can all argue until the food supplies stop and the bugdemics take over.

[jakell]

It doesn't matter what any of us think of believe. It's gonna happen however it's gonna happen and nobody knows where it's going to lead. So we might as well STFU and fasten our seatbelts.

I started that other thread about where to go. I think that's the more interesting idea at this point, but there's really nothing to argue about, unlike this thread, where we can all argue until the food supplies stop and the bugdemics take over.

I think the argument has moved on a bit and starting to take on an almost religious dimension where extinction of the human species gets mentioned on a regular basis ie rather an extreme scenario.

The greatest strength of humans (relative to the animal kingdom) has been our adaptability, living successfully in an enormous range of environments, even when these keep changing. All this talk of extinction seems to completely ignore all that and relegates us to the position of dumb lizards, as if the last several hundred million years of evolution haven't stuck.

Privileged Westerners may go extinct, but not the human species, the extinction panic is just from their point of view, they want to keep their privilege and not adapt.

[KUAN]

.
Koyaanisqatsi: Life Out of Balance


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4WlNj1TTqA

[Burnt Hill]

It doesn't matter what any of us think of believe. It's gonna happen however it's gonna happen and nobody knows where it's going to lead. So we might as well STFU and fasten our seatbelts.

I started that other thread about where to go. I think that's the more interesting idea at this point, but there's really nothing to argue about, unlike this thread, where we can all argue until the food supplies stop and the bugdemics take over.

I think the argument has moved on a bit and starting to take on an almost religious dimension where extinction of the human species gets mentioned on a regular basis ie rather an extreme scenario.

The greatest strength of humans (relative to the animal kingdom) has been our adaptability, living successfully in an enormous range of environments, even when these keep changing. All this talk of extinction seems to completely ignore all that and relegates us to the position of dumb lizards, as if the last several hundred million years of evolution haven't stuck.

Privileged Westerners may go extinct, but not the human species, the extinction panic is just from their point of view, they want to keep their privilege and not adapt.

Thank you for offering this perspective jakell.
I reject the DOOM scenario, as I do believe in the ability for the species, science and the planet to adapt.
And if mass changes do occur, I welcome it, earth changes may bring proper political change.
I am not unaware of the potential human suffering involved, there is plenty of human suffering right now, I cant make it all mine.
My pov is bolstered by the fact that I have been moving toward homesteading for the last 20 years, and would be happy to go 100% with it. Those that are feeling powerless right now maybe ought to start making their own lifestyle changes, it is empowering.
Its easy to cry "the sky is falling" and lay blame.
The human experience deserves better.

[Iamwhomiam]

PufPuf, thank you for sharing your experiences with us. I'll have more to offer regarding your posting later today or tonight, particularly about biodigestion of wastes to turn them into a profit. I believe within the past few years a huge biomass (incinerator) energy plant was built in the Klamath Falls area. A poor way, an unhealthy way to create energy in this day and age, imo. However, a great way to avoid waste disposal costs by marketing wastes for profit.

Hello, Burnt Hill. I hope you're having a fine day. First, you should know I admire your desire to become as self-sufficient as possible. I advised folks here long ago who were able to, to find their spot to do the same. I don't know if you inherited your land or you worked and saved to purchase it, but it really doesn't matter, those who are able to should emulate the lifestyle you've chosen. I'll have more for you in a moment, but I will address something Jackell wrote which you've agreed with.

Jackell wrote:

I think the argument has moved on a bit and starting to take on an almost religious dimension where extinction of the human species gets mentioned on a regular basis ie rather an extreme scenario.

I believe PufPuf briefly mentioned ELE, but I don't believe those of us who are concerned about climate change have been mentioning extinction, but surely that is what the science has predicted if we continue doing business as usual without radically curtailing industrial emissions.

Jackell, you seem to trust only the good in human nature to pull us through, while ignoring the true state of life on earth for billions of people who are not privileged whose lives are desperate, and made that way by other humans with bad or selfish intentions.

Burnt Hill wrote:

I reject the DOOM scenario, as I do believe in the ability for the species, science and the planet to adapt.

Adaption is an evolutionary trait that takes long periods of time. I think it is foolish to believe the planet will adapt to climate change, or to our pollutants. Just think about how long it will be before Fukushima Daichi or our nuclear wastes to become non-harmful. There is no adaption possible to highly radioactive nuclear wastes and there is no escaping the future harms from our changing climate.

And humans will never adapt until this mindset is no more:

I am not unaware of the potential human suffering involved, there is plenty of human suffering right now, I cant make it all mine.

John D. Rockefeller himself, or any oligarch, would say the same. Until you feel the pain of your neighbor, there can be no chance for adapting to much of anything. We are after all, one big family. 'I take care of mine, you take care of yours.'

Which is fine until one realizes there are a very many who through deprivation of one sort or another or from calamity, will forever be unable to care for themselves or anyone else.

So you must be addressing privileged Westerners in writing, "Those that are feeling powerless right now maybe ought to start making their own lifestyle changes, it is empowering", because the majority of our world's population is made up of people without any ability whatsoever to alter their circumstance.

[Burnt Hill]

Iam, are you comparing me to John Rockefeller(or any ogliarch!) and assuming that I don't feel the pain of my neighbor?
Your statement after quoting me implies that, does it not?
Nothing I have wrote suggests that. And it is a false premise.

* ^ this could also be seen as another attempt to smear me by taking my words out of context and then equating them to an unsavory character or idea.
I will reject that as your intent for now, but it does appear to be a repeated tactic of yours.

Adaptations, both good and bad will occur regardless of my mindset.

Suggesting lifestyle changes was for our immediate audience that is feeling doomed.

[Iamwhomiam]

Though I've asked repeated for you to provide an example of your many claims of me smearing you, you continue to make such accusations without proof of one such instance. I have not once smeared you. If you disagree, please show me where I have and allow me to apologize.

I'm not comparing you to anyone. I'm not assuming anything.

I took nothing out of context. you entire posting is third above this. These are your words: "I am not unaware of the potential human suffering involved, there is plenty of human suffering right now, I cant make it all mine."

It is a stand alone statement. It cannot be misunderstood.

Lastly, there are many here who could not leave their jobs and afford to homestead. I am one of those.

I do hope you enjoy this day.

But please, let's have no more accusations from you of me slighting you without providing some proof. It's a simple thing to admit you were wrong if you can't and if you do I will earnestly apologize to you.

It would have been more enjoyable for me had you argued the points I raised to show why adaption to climate change is not possible.

[Burnt Hill]

Though I've asked repeated for you to provide an example of your many claims of me smearing you, you continue to make such accusations without proof of one such instance. I have not once smeared you. If you disagree, please show me where I have and allow me to apologize.

My very last post gave you a very specific example.
Are you pulling my leg?

I'm not comparing you to anyone. I'm not assuming anything.

You just compared my statement to something an ogilarch would say.
And suggested I have no empathy for my neighbor.
Really, are you pulling my leg?

I took nothing out of context. you entire posting is third above this. These are your words: "I am not unaware of the potential human suffering involved, there is plenty of human suffering right now, I cant make it all mine."

Whatever context you used to equate it to a John Rockefeller statement is out of context.

It is a stand alone statement. It cannot be misunderstood.

And yet you did.

Lastly, there are many here who could not leave their jobs and afford to homestead. I am one of those.

Who says you should leave your job and homestead? Not me.

I do hope you enjoy this day.

But please, let's have no more accusations from you of me slighting you without providing some proof. It's a simple thing to admit you were wrong if you can't and if you do I will earnestly apologize to you.

There are many examples in our history, and in your history with others, all you need to do is read objectively
It would have been more enjoyable for me had you argued the points I raised to show why adaption to climate change is not possible.

I don't post for your entertainment.
If you believe it is not possible to adapt to climate change that's fine.
Its going on in the natural world whether you feel that way or not.
.

[jakell]

...Adaption is an evolutionary trait that takes long periods of time. I think it is foolish to believe the planet will adapt to climate change, or to our pollutants. Just think about how long it will be before Fukushima Daichi or our nuclear wastes to become non-harmful. There is no adaption possible to highly radioactive nuclear wastes and there is no escaping the future harms from our changing climate...

It is true that a worldwide nuclear event could mean the end for us, but that's about the only sure thing. At the present, and in the past we have lived and learned to live in widely varying climates, so no, extinction of the species from a changing climate is unlikely.

I hope you didn't think I was talking about us physically evolving into new forms, that would be silly science fiction. That is not what I meant by adaptation, I meant simply the same abilities we've used since we left Africa and populated all parts of the globe, including some extreme environments.