The “Alternative Right"

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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:38 pm

Are you on twitter? Conflating the "fringe conservative movement" known as the Alt-Right with white supremacism ... ain't much of a stretch, all of Milo's intern-composed objections aside. They have contempt for Dindus and a heavy, heavy focus on ((())).

As for reporting being purposefully dumb, well, yeah. All journalism is motivated, just like all ignorance: probably not a coincidental connection there, either.

I definitely cede to your experience with EU / UK WS folks, though. I would imagine they're more concerned with the Remove Kebab agenda over there, yeah?

Which is funny, because come to think of it, I first heard about Coincidence Detector from a Muslim friend who is probably more fixated on Israel than any neo-nazi alive. Lots of agendas in the shark tank.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby American Dream » Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:53 pm

The article I posted from Mic.com links to an earlier article which gives more of the story:


Image

(((Echoes))), Exposed: The Secret Symbol Neo-Nazis Use to Target Jews Online


In the early days of the social web, putting someone's name in multiple parentheses was meant to give that person a cute virtual hug. Today, it's something far more sinister.

Neo-Nazis, anti-Semites and white nationalists have begun using three sets of parentheses encasing a Jewish surname — for instance, (((Fleishman))) — to identify and target Jews for harassment on blogs and major social media sites like Twitter. As one white supremacist tweeted, "It's closed captioning for the Jew-blind."

Jonathan Weisman, deputy Washington editor for the New York Times, wrote about his experience as a victim of this harassment in a May 26 story.

"Hello ((Weisman))" it began after Weisman tweeted a Washington Post article about Donald Trump titled "This Is How Fascism Comes to America."

Weisman asked his harasser, @CyberTrump, to explain the symbol. "It's a dog whistle, fool," the user responded. "Belling the cat for my fellow goyim."

With the parentheses, @CyberTrump had alerted an army of trolls. The attacks that followed were sudden and unremitting. "The anti-Semitic hate, much of it from self-identified Donald J. Trump supporters, hasn't stopped since," Weisman wrote.

The origins of the symbol ((())) can be traced to a hardcore, right-wing podcast called The Daily Shoah in 2014. It's known as an "echo" in the anti-Semitic corners of the alt-right — a new, young, amorphous conservative movement that comprises trolls fluent in internet culture, free speech activists warring against political correctness and earnest white nationalists. Some use the symbol to mock Jews; others seek to expose supposed Jewish collusion in controlling media or politics. All use it to put a target on their heads.


Continues at: https://mic.com/articles/144228/echoes- ... ws-online/
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby jakell » Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:35 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:38 pm wrote:Are you on twitter? Conflating the "fringe conservative movement" known as the Alt-Right with white supremacism ... ain't much of a stretch, all of Milo's intern-composed objections aside. They have contempt for Dindus and a heavy, heavy focus on ((())).


I tend to see White Supremacism as a pretty well defined philosophy that talks of intelligence and innate moral standing as being implicit in whites and usually coded in the genome. An identifiable belief system that can be built upon (if one wishes)

The so-called WS that gets referred to in a broader sense seems to me a simple and unfocussed tribalism a preference (prejudice) for whatever one sees as one's own and something we have seen in most cultures throughout history. Why would someone call this tribalism 'supremacism'? (except to dig up Hitler for dramatic purposes).

I don't use twitter, but I imagine that it is full of the more adolescent extreme provocation and really nasty memes that has characterised the sharp end of alt-right for some time, there's not much of interest there if one is looking for a calmer ideological foundation, and calm and lengthy discussion can be found.

As for reporting being purposefully dumb, well, yeah. All journalism is motivated, just like all ignorance: probably not a coincidental connection there, either.

I definitely cede to your experience with EU / UK WS folks, though. I would imagine they're more concerned with the Remove Kebab agenda over there, yeah?

Which is funny, because come to think of it, I first heard about Coincidence Detector from a Muslim friend who is probably more fixated on Israel than any neo-nazi alive. Lots of agendas in the shark tank.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:56 pm

jakell » Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:35 pm wrote: Why would someone call this tribalism 'supremacism'? (except to dig up Hitler for dramatic purposes).


Because all tribes are the best tribe. All out-groups are inferior. Do you even Jung, bro?

jakell » Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:35 pm wrote:
I don't use twitter, but I imagine that it is full of the more adolescent extreme provocation and really nasty memes that has characterised the sharp end of alt-right for some time, there's not much of interest there if one is looking for a calmer ideological foundation, and calm and lengthy discussion can be found.


So people who act on their beliefs are of no interest to you, and you don't even think they're part of the movement they identify with? That's an interesting approach!
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby jakell » Sat Jun 04, 2016 5:18 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:56 pm wrote:
jakell » Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:35 pm wrote: Why would someone call this tribalism 'supremacism'? (except to dig up Hitler for dramatic purposes).


Because all tribes are the best tribe. All out-groups are inferior. Do you even Jung, bro?


Not necessarily, out-groups are simply out-groups, and in-groups are based on familiarity and kinship. Your claim of inferiority is a leap that doesn't need to be made, a baggage that some may take up and not others, it doesn't automatically follow.

You've taken tribalism to a colder, starker and even martial level here. I would say there's a good deal of ground in between tribalism and supremacism

jakell » Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:35 pm wrote:
I don't use twitter, but I imagine that it is full of the more adolescent extreme provocation and really nasty memes that has characterised the sharp end of alt-right for some time, there's not much of interest there if one is looking for a calmer ideological foundation, and calm and lengthy discussion can be found.


So people who act on their beliefs are of no interest to you, and you don't even think they're part of the movement they identify with? That's an interesting approach!


In looking for a calmer ideological core of a movement, I do tend to ignore a lot of the (adolescent) froth. Possibly this involves many oversights but it's the only way I can grasp what might be going on.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby jakell » Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:39 am

I was overreaching with the word 'martial' above.

I was (probably dramatically) taking the next stride. The first stride IMO being the move from tribalism to attitudes of condescendence towards out-groups, which then becomes belligerence, which can then turn into martial behaviour. Apart from the cognitive foundation, it's all standard ape behaviour which I cover with the word 'adolescent' , ie something we can grow out of if we choose, but is there nonetheless.

So, I would stick with the possibility of neutral tribalism and resist the temptation to jump automatically to feudalism, somewhere where we might have to think about being actively civilised rather than assuming it just happens if we cleave to a set of ideas.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby American Dream » Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:10 am

Image



GOOGLE DROPS THE ANTI-SEMITIC (((ECHO))) APP FROM APP STORE


Anything associated with the Alt Right and popular blogs and podcasts of their ilk, such as the Daily Stormer or the Daily Shoah, seem to have a short shelf life in the non-racist world.

As we have reported on in the past, at length, the Daily Shoah and the Right Stuff have contributed quite a bit to neo-fascism and white nationalism in terms of language. They have created dozens, if not hundreds, of slang terms and memes for the far right, giving them their own internal language.

One of their favorites of these is the “echo.” Like most white nationalists and neo-Nazis, the Alt Right is incredibly anti-Semitic. Drawing on the work of people like Kevin McDonald, they see Jews as being in a struggle of ethnic conflict inside of their “host” societies in Western nations. Jews then create “pseudoscientific” ideas like Freudianism, Marxism, capitalism, etc, all to destabilize the rightful ethnic nationalism of white Europeans. If they do this, so their conspiracy theory goes, Jews can then outcompete Europeans for resources, then dominating institutions like investment banks and the media.

For this reason they say that Jewish last names “echo” through history and important institutions, and they try to prove this Jewish conspiracy by pointing out Jewish, or Jewish sounding, last names of people in positions of political or social power. None of this actually explains how Jews do this, how all of these political and social systems are false and traced back to Jewish ethnic interests, or how Jews know how to fall in line with this grand conspiracy by virtue of a few shared genes.

Nevertheless, they, like most on the far right, prove their accusation simply by pointing at anything they do not like and finding Jewish last names associated with it. Immigration, “cultural Marxism,” free market politics, pedophilia, pornography, feminism, and just about all other “degeneracies” that have no connection to each other are put under this umbrella.


Continues at: https://antifascistnews.net/2016/06/05/ ... app-store/
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby jakell » Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:16 pm

"incredibly anti-semitic"

Compared to what I wonder, because this seems to be a claim with no particular ground level. at least they are not mixing in phrases like White Nationalism, White Supremacism, Neo-Nazism and or even 'fringe conservative movement' (to name a few)just to pad things out and dampen discrimination.
'Anti-semitism' is the issue.

So here's how it is.... there is anti-semitism in the alt-right sphere (incredible or not), but there are also lengthy pieces, talks and conversations where it doesn't come up at all. Sometimes when it is brought up by an 'enthusiast', it remarkably peters out due to lack of interest (it's remarkable because it used to be a central point that always took hold).
Don't believe me, check this out for yourself, there is plenty of material to look into. I mean the more thoughtful stuff BTW, not Twitter froth.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:34 am

Do you ever get tired of typing the same shit and never making a coherent point?
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby jakell » Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:21 am

Wombaticus Rex » Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:34 pm wrote:Do you ever get tired of typing the same shit and never making a coherent point?


Sort of, but I'm doing work

If you have identified something that can be described as 'the same shit', then logically I must have made at least one coherent point, probably several as this seems to be a plural expression.

As to the content. I am being rigorous by addressing foundational issues and resisting the urge to fabricate additional ones until they are properly discussed, this is how to build a proper argument. when foundational issues aren't addressed, repetition does tend to follow, it can't be any other way, even though it's not very entertaining to onlookers.

Anyway, as I'm serious here and not messing around, I suppose I should not waste this post by not addressing the issues in some way....
A while back I queried whether alt-right is an actual 'thing' and not an internet flash in the pan. I've come to the conclusion that it is something to be reckoned with, and this by observing knock-on effects in certain European organisations. Not copycat effects BTW, but fairly fresh and creative ones, and this has renewed an interest of mine that flagged towards the end of 2012 when certain European far right outlets seems to close their doors somewhat.
This said. I have seen some copycat behaviour which leads me to consider using an outdated model of mine.. that of White Nationalism stealing the clothes and tenure of British Nationalism (and basically undermining it), and applying it to what is happening at Red Ice Radio (as one specific example). I've even considering borrowing the term 'cuckolding' from the alt-righters as it fits very well.
Last edited by jakell on Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby coffin_dodger » Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:48 am

even though it's not very entertaining to onlookers

At least you're cognisant of that much. :rofl2
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby jakell » Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:03 pm

coffin_dodger » Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:48 pm wrote:
even though it's not very entertaining to onlookers

At least you're cognisant of that much. :rofl2


Oh, I'm painfully aware of it, but I'm also wary of the dangers of fabricating extra fluff.

The kindly Wombat seems to expect me to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, I would be so lucky as to have such a starting point, there is nothing here but a load of seem, and that is being generous. An upside is that it does lower the bar considerably, so I don't have to make too much of an effort, a downside is that I get lazy.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby American Dream » Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:56 pm

http://www.alternet.org/activism/depaul ... protestors

DePaul University Tour Shut Down by Protestors, Lead by Self-Styled Free Speech Warrior Milo Yiannopoulos

By Jason Wilson
May 27, 2016


At DePaul University this week, Milo Yiannopoulos had a tour event shut down by protesters [3]. We can support the protests and at the same time note that this kind of confrontation is his meat and drink.

At DePaul, the self-styled free speech warrior and his fans once again did not prove to be as robust as their rhetoric. When protesters arrived they begged for the intercession of cops, and cartoonish redpill tough guy Matt Forney complained [4] about being manhandled.

Nevertheless, the event received the usual hagiographic treatment on Breitbart and the Daily Caller, and once again Yiannopoulos was able to portray himself as the alt-right’s courageous truth-teller.

He was fortunate, in a way. On his current US campus tour, alleged threats to his free speech, and the back and forth between Yiannopoulos and his antagonists have been the only thing sustaining interest in the whole enterprise.

I know because I attended a Milo event at which there was no left reception committee. When he appears unchallenged, the Milo show is the dampest of squibs.

At the University of Oregon, where I saw him, it was not clear that he was especially grateful for the platform, or the lack of interruptions.

“Your professors are cunts, on the whole,” he tells the mostly student audience in an almost-full auditorium, “limp-wristed, pacifistic, sandal-wearing weirdos.”

It goes on like this for hours - the epithets are relentless and the provocations artless. Without hostile interruptions, Yiannopoulos’s act, which unfortunately relies entirely on him speaking, is a one-note affair.

The Oregon engagement begins, like the others, with a one on one interview. Tonight his interlocutor is the co-president of the local branch of Young Americans for Liberty, who are sponsoring the evening. Then comes an open question and answer session, and Milo finishes up by giving fans an opportunity to take selfies with one of the right’s rising stars.

But right now, that’s a long way off. First, we have to wade through the redpill boilerplate that constitutes Milo’s political views.

“There is an assault in this country”, he informs his interviewer, “on straight white men”, waged by “middle class women and cucks.” In this case the latter is being used to describe male feminists, who “don’t need to be castrated, they’ve done it themselves.”

Moving onto rape culture, which he considers a myth, he asks, with a theatrical moan, “Is there anything worse than consent?”

These opinions are odious, of course, but in another way utterly banal. Most adults will find Yiannopoulos’s show exactly as transgressive as a dirty joke told by a racist uncle. He wants desperately to cause deep offence to the left, and with some campus-based comrades, he clearly succeeds. Others will struggle to muster an eye-roll. I’ve heard pithier put-downs of progressives on Australian bar stools.

So why are all these other people laughing?

After all, even if you agree with this stuff, there’s not much here that’s new. Milo described the alt-right, for which he as a kind of spokesman, as a group which is “young, creative and eager to commit secular heresies”.

But anyone who’s ever listened to Michael Savage or Mark Levin, or even waited around in a small-town barber shop has already encountered all of this guff at punishing length. If there’s a difference, it’s purely a matter of presentation.

His core politics are similar to those of the mens rights movement - he hates feminists and claims they’re waging a war on the *real* victims, men. But everyone on the American right pretty much agrees with this. He calls lesbians names and questions whether there should be further Muslim immigration. But these are not novel sentiments either.

For sheltered campus conservatives in provincial college towns, though, it all sounds terribly naughty, even revolutionary. Not because of what’s being said, which is “redpill” boilerplate [5], but because of who is saying it.

In an irony whose full implications escape his audience - who are not, on the whole, well-attuned to such things - his identity is the only real value he adds to an otherwise bog-standard litany of complaints.

The conservative ecosystem is variously populated by talk-radio mastodons; dessicated, reptilian columnists; and near-vegetative think-tankers with about as much charisma as their lanyards. In this Jurassic world, Milo can self-consciously promote himself as something disruptive and new.

Of course, he’ll say he’s also bringing glamour. But as has been pointed out, the guy dresses like something out of a “Hey, kids! [6]” PSA, or Poochie [7].

Tonight, in pink t-shirt, bling, gaudy trainers and lightly distressed denim, he looks like he’s beamed in from the “boys casual wear” section of a decade-old Macy’s catalogue. Only the buttoned-down Randroids who run YAL [8] could think that his frosted tips and ostentatious indoor sunglasses are anything other than normcore-gone-wrong.

The really entrancing thing for America’s reactionary dweebs and young fogeys is hearing this from a gay, British man in his thirties, rather than say, Rush Limbaugh.

It means that for an hour or two, they can put aside their niche anxieties about creeping sharia, or who is using which public restroom, and imagine that they are part of something subversive.

The bonus is that even in making this pitch, he comforts his audience with the knowledge that they don’t have to take the political demands of other LGBT people seriously. He drops hints that deep down, he hates queers as much as they do.

One of his biggest applause lines in Eugene was the moment when he distanced himself from other gay men, averring that “the worst thing about being gays is other gays… They’re just such fucking fags.”

It’s all a bit like music hall for young tories: marginally risque but ultimately reassuring. It’s conservative all right, but not in the edgy way Yiannopoulos imagines it to be.

In fact he’s just one of a long line of performers who exist to endorse the whole slate of garden-variety petty bourgeois prejudices. It’s dull work, I imagine, but there’s a steady market for those who can give it fresh nuance.

For now, he appears to be on a roll. From his start as a Breitbart writer and gamergate troll, he’s energetically barged his way into the dress circle of rightwing celebrity.

He now rubs shoulders with the likes of Ann Coulter, [9] with whom he shares a performative, post-Trump antipathy to established movement conservatism. He’s successfully positioned himself as a member of the “alt-right”, a movement for which he drafted a manifesto which also functions as an apologia for the open anti-semitism and racism of that community.

(During the evening, he retails the anti-establishment sentiments which are themselves now de rigeur on the right, saying that “the Republican Party needs to be torn up, burnt to the ground and rebuilt”.)

The hustle has been competent enough to secure the greatest reward that a bogus generational spokesman can reap: a profile [10] in the New York Times magazine. And now, he’s on a US tour, bringing his fabulous brand of bigotry to America’s universities.

In Eugene, around 350 prople show up (at DePaul, Breitbart claimed there were 500, but they have a habit of talking their employee up). A solid three quarters of those in attendance were men. Given Milo’s obsession with detailing what he sees the failings of women - especially feminists, lesbians, and those who aren’t thin - it’s no surprise that his events are such sausage-fests.

Indeed, the passages of the evening in which he talks about the many women that he doesn’t like are one of the few times that a genuine emotion - disgust - rises to the surface of his camp repartee.

When he describes lesbians as “horrendous, quivering masses of horror”, described feminism as “cancer”, he’s practically spitting. It’s the kind of vituperation you don’t usually employ unless you’ve encountered a real threat.

I don’t know, or much care, whether Milo Yiannopoulos’s own contempt for women is a mask for fear. But he certainly appears to be answering to the fears of his audience.

The sources of this disquiet are evident in the queues for the question and answer session, and later for selfies. It’s very clear in these moments that Milo’s core audience, his most devoted fans, are bewildered, young, reactionary, male nerds.

You get the vivid impression when you hear them talk that their antipathy to feminism has bloomed out of a much more intimate kind of frustration with the opposite sex. Unfortunately, they’ve come to the world’s worst source of dating advice.

During question time, men ask for and recieve counsel about how to deal with feminists challenging them in their personal lives, and Yiannopoulos commiserated with them about “the oppressive hegemony of social justice”.

The whole ritual does no more than try to reverse the polarity of identity politics, insisting that actually, it’s white men who are oppressed. And the only way he can really make this case is to talk about class.

Thus, he talks about the “awful, awful, terrible, diseased, and damaged people lecturing and hectoring the working class” who have “rightly had enough of it”, and whose only hope of salvation is “President Donald Trump”.

The problem - apart from the fact that this is delivered in an upper-middle class British accent, and that his audience are mostly college kids - is that he’s not really offering the working class anything except the permission to dish out racial slurs and minimise rape culture.

He boasts about the scholarship scheme [11] he’s set up for underprivileged boys, but he has nothing to say about the economy except hints of support for a Trumpian economic nationalism.

In another hackneyed move, Yiannopoulos posits the “Working class” not as a product of structural economic inequality but as another kind of political identity, one that expresses itself in salty language and low-level sexual harassment.

This is the kind of caricature you can only believe in if you don’t actually know that many working-class people. Like every other right wing hack, Milo absolutely depends on the angst of wounded identity, and its quest for an alternative victimhood.

The working class he spins fantasies about are exclusively white, because like every right wing hack, his principal concern is activating white male resentment. This rhetoric was developed precisely to divide the working class, and to keep them in their place.

At one point Yiannopoulos offers something of a credo: “The only way to respond to outrage culture is to be outrageous”. It’s handy because it’s a good cover story for pursuing his real goal, which is no more or less than the getting of attention.

But Milo Yiannopoulos is not outrageous, nor is he of himself especially dangerous. He’s just a wanker. When the Trump wave recedes, he may in time be regarded, along with the rest of the flotsam it deposited, as a curiosity. More likely, he’ll return to the mean and become one more right wing talking head in a perennially shallow talent pool.

The ideas he promotes are damaging, of course. He talks a lot about “the public square”, but the fruit borne of his adolescent attacks on feminism are likely to play out in more private spaces, where the most important negotiations about sex, consent, and equality happen.

God help the woman whose partner is a Milo fan. At the very best, she’ll have to listen to this horseshit on a loop. At worst, she’ll be living with someone who has the tools to rationalise selfishness, abuse, and even sexual assault.

What’s perhaps not considered often enough how much damage this nonsense does to those men who take it seriously. For one thing, it allows them to put off the day on which they grow up, and realise that the women who won’t sleep with them aren’t persecuting them, but making the kinds of choices characteristic of autonomous human beings.

So as derivative as this whole enterprise is, it may cause problems. What’s to be done?

DePaul’s progressives had one strategy - protest - which I do not plan to gainsay. That’s a decision for local activists to make based on what’s happening on their campus.

There’s been more than enough hippie-punching in recent months directed at those who protest at public events that attract the far right, and I don’t propose to add to it. Protesting serves many purposes: publicly articulating common positions, building comradeship, and making claims or counter-claims on public space. There should be more of it.

It’s true, though, that on those occasions like the night in Eugene, where he is not met by protesters, Milo seems forlorn. His schtick goes limp; he’s revealed as a one-trick pony.

When a young man, identifying himself as a feminist, spoke up against him, Milo whisked him onto the stage for an extended chat. Briefly, the evening was enlivened, though no one was enlightened, because Milo doesn’t argue in good faith. But he knows that the audience comes for the fireworks.

Absent opposition, it’s harder to convince supporters that he’s bravely overturning PC shibboleths and taking it to the SJWs.

Perhaps the decision by students at the University of California, Irvine, to offer a counter-event to [12] Milo’s visit offers a promising way to deal with this nuisance.

When it comes to the right, “ignore them and they’ll go away” is generally bad advice, but skipping the Milo show, and using it as to build something positive sounds like something that could also build the left ahead of the Summer of Trump.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby jakell » Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:17 pm

Sooo... Milo is neither outrageous or dangerous, and is basically a fop according to the above (a long piece for such a weedy guy), so why the furore to shut his shows down?

Here he is appearing under an alt-right heading, but seems neither anti-semitic nor White Supremacist as were claimed to be required credentials above.
None of this seems to hang together very much, if at all.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby Sounder » Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:46 pm

He was fortunate, in a way. On his current US campus tour, alleged threats to his free speech, and the back and forth between Yiannopoulos and his antagonists have been the only thing sustaining interest in the whole enterprise.

I know because I attended a Milo event at which there was no left reception committee. When he appears unchallenged, the Milo show is the dampest of squibs.

At the University of Oregon, where I saw him, it was not clear that he was especially grateful for the platform, or the lack of interruptions.


So then, why does anti-fa think it is doing a service in 'going after' (obvious egomaniac nut-jobs)? Why not take the more logical route of ignoring them, there-by forcing their rhetoric into ever increasing dissonance expressions, (shit that don't make sense).

Without the imposed dichotomy, the rhetoric of alt-right, and probably pretty much all political posturing becomes exposed as shallow nonsense to the less 'educated' (and mostly downtrodden) light years before our better brainwashed recognize the ultimate pointlessness of the posturing.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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