The “Alternative Right"

[Belligerent Savant]

.
(removed futile posting.)

[backtoiam]

beligerent savant

Who HERE has displayed such traits? Far Right? HERE? "xenophobes, anti-semites, racists, misogynists and all the rest of the bigots" -- a prevalence of such views are HERE??? WHERE?????

Are you seeing the same forum as the rest of us? There MUST be GOBLINS on YOUR computer screen conjuring words that the rest of us don't see. You continue to make baseless claims, and when others call you out on them and/or ask for examples, you go SILENT.

(Note to 82_28: you typed earlier, "don't be a dick". Well, see what AD is doing, making such baseless claims and never providing examples? THAT, my friend, is BEING A DICK.)

I can dig that. I like it when you chime in. Do so more often.

[Luther Blissett]

Well, young American people of all stripes certainly think like American Dream and these varied tactics of antifascism are going to become increasingly important in American society in coming years, it's just not really voiced here much by others.

There's definitely a real multitendency grassroots reactionary movement in the U.S. that pairs oh so sweetly with conventional power. I for one think that it needs to be discussed way more at Rigorous Intuition.

And I swear I try to imagine that Jakell really is just a super rigorous antifascist - so rigorous that we just don't have the right tactics and tools yet to save innocent people from the creeping spectre of new fascism - and maybe they are but it's becoming increasingly difficult to imagine that. And I'm sticking by that multitendency reactionary thing. I don't care if you are a white supremacist or a redpill rapist because I've seen the writing on the wall regarding dystopian dreams.

Not sure how I have appeared in what seems to be mainly an historical RI feud, but I haven't called myself an antifascist for years.

I've given my reasons for this many times on here, admittedly they have been brought into relief somewhat by the many outings the expression gets on here. One more time won't hurt I suppose:
I regard 'anti-fascism' as a dynamic thing, something that needs attention and action, so one isn't being an antifascist by simply posting stuff on an internet forum and then sitting back, one needs to locate opponents and tackle them until a resolution is found, whether online or in meatspace. Additionally, one is not being an antifascist by inventing or exaggerating opposition either (which I see antifa types doing a lot), possibly criticism of this is the nearest I come to the fray nowadays.

There is a nearby position that one can claim for oneself though which doesn't steal the well deserved thunder of real activists, and that is simply 'non-fascist'. Admittedly this is not so swashbucklingly wankworthy** as the other term, but it's probably more realistic.
I came up with this after all the many many claims that " RI is an anti-fascist board". It's not IMO, it's a non-fascist board. I reckon Jeff opened a mini Pandora's box when he penned that one.

I agree I am super rigorous though... to a fault. It isn't entertaining or pretty and tends to bore the pants off of people, but I don't care. I learned long ago to first get my ducks properly in a row on forums, especially when broaching grave issues (the present one for instance).


** Yet again, one of those 'Masculinities of The Left'.

That sounds exactly like something a super-rigorous anti-fascist might say.

Jeff said this should be an anti-fascist board because he's an anti-fascist. When he's not posting about the U.S. election or the environment or gifs of Lenin petting a cat, his posts on Facebook sometimes overlap with the current hated anarchist / far-left / antifascist subject matter here probably because he recognizes that there are currents that want to form a strong ultraright paramilitary reactionist uprising in North America and probably thinks that we should do something to protect our neighbors from that.

[jakell]

Thanks for responding even though my post got lost over the page. I missed out on what Jeff was all about, and all I'm hearing nowadays are some wistful yearnings now and again. There must be a good reason why he doesn't post here anymore and I find it hard not to interpret that as a thumbs down as to the state of the forum at present.

I'm not seeing what I would call a consider an antifascist (by my definition) leaning here, if there was then AD's threads would generate more (or even some) interest and discussion from other members. I suppose AD is trying to generate such a thing and has been for some time, but to no avail. 'Non-fascist' seems more apt at present.

I'm reluctant to take on the AF moniker because, it means dedication and emotional involvement, I've done all that and would like to leave the six shooters on the wall for the time being. It also means getting to grips with a particular scene and while I had roughly accomplished that with the UK far-right circa 2000-2013 (more or less the BNP's heyday), this alt-right business looks a lot more complex and involves a steeper learning curve for me, being of foreign origin.
I am starting to take them seriously now though, but some proper mapping needs to be done and it would be a big map. If I did follow this through I'm not sure if RI would be a good venue anyway... it's either silent disinterest or brief spasms of noise.

[Sounder]

My assertion is that the 'old order' is maintained through clever manipulations of various manifestations of tribalism.
(It always has been)

People that add to this are not 'fighting the system', they are the system.

To which AD responded with this.

There may be irreconcilable deal breakers.

Well there you go, you are now excused from noting the substance in my earlier words, that; ‘the 'old order' is maintained through clever manipulations of various manifestations of tribalism’. Now to further insulate your self, how bout a heaping of negative associational markers for people that do not support the Anti-Fa cause.

Then surly you will never see that you and George Soros Inc. are using manipulations of tribalism in order to insure the dominance of the élite.

Such as black liberation, for one.

Yep, and it’s such a shame to see the current ‘Black’ leadership being sooo well integrated into the system.

If you don't like the sort of content that includes such anti-fascist themes, then don't read it.

Like I said to Jack, I come here to hear divergent opinions and do not run away from hearing them. True, I do not read 95% of the emotion pimping product on offer, but the occasional dip does provide useful reflections on the state of modern wankery, so there is that, and that’s really cool.
But I do read actual words of posters, and find those to be quite enough to gauge the level or depth of thinking.

You may not be the intended audience and I have zero interest in dialogue with the folks I consider to be with the Far Right.

You have no idea, you silly silly person.

We know there are plenty of conspiracy sites that welcome xenophobes, anti-semites, racists, misogynists and all the rest of the bigots, so anyone here with such sympathies has options.

Put up or shut up AD. Where do you see the bigotry being promoted?

If you don't like that sort of content, then don't read it.

Actually AD, there are many people that read many kinds of content, some of it, of course they do not like, and they criticize it. And much they do like, as that is a thing that keeps them going. Sometimes they come to be called critics, and combined with other critics they help to advance the general understanding of the community. It is a good thing, and telling that you have no room in your mind for criticism.



Luther Blissett wrote…

There's definitely a real multitendency grassroots reactionary movement in the U.S. that pairs oh so sweetly with conventional power. I for one think that it needs to be discussed way more at Rigorous Intuition.

This would seem be a useful discussion to have. However, the well seems to be fairly well poisoned and I certainly will have nothing to do with something that involves putting more ‘tags’ on people. Fuck me man, I’m already ten kinds of evil because of the associational logic created by some dude out in cyberspace.

Thanks, now that I think on it, I’ll take a pass.

Although there are lessons available here on differences between form and substance.

[Belligerent Savant]

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"I certainly will have nothing to do with something that involves putting more ‘tags’ on people."

Sign me up for this as well.

[82_28]

I "protect" him because of an esteemed member here knows him in real life and I think AD's intents are inherently good. I do not like to see any entity hounded. That's just what it seems like to me. Just post. But don't be a dick.

Think of it like show and tell in school. All he is doing is sharing whatever the fuck it is he's been reading. For some fucking reason RI means a lot to me and came through in our past darkest hours. It sounds idiotic but I stick around because shit like this don't affect me.

Again, AD does not bother me whatsoever and I think he should be shown a level of respect because of this quirkiness.

An "esteemed" member! This is a fucking message board for christ fucking sakes.
(and don't fool yourself into thinking "shit like this don't affect me" -- clearly, it does.)

I get that YOU think AD's‎ intentions are inherently good (and they may well be -- I personally don't factor that into the content itself).

But again, you continue to project your own thoughts/feelings into this and expect all others to act accordingly/be in line with whatever your own thoughts and feelings are (contradicting yourself along the way), and that's simply absurd.

What you need, dude, is a Virtual Reality version of RigInt. That way, you can set it up just how YOU like it, within YOUR comfort zone. You can preserve the sanctity of this precious forum on YOUR terms. Your own RigInt sandbox.
You wouldn't need to fret any longer.

But otherwise, stop trying to control what you CAN'T control. Follow your own advice. Re-read what YOU typed with respect to AD and apply it to ALL.

It will all work itself out in the end.

No, bro. I just accept. AD comes from where he comes from. That's his deal. I cannot answer for anything anyone does, clearly. Just he is just fine with me and that is about it.

[Belligerent Savant]

I "protect" him because of an esteemed member here knows him in real life and I think AD's intents are inherently good. I do not like to see any entity hounded. That's just what it seems like to me. Just post. But don't be a dick.

Think of it like show and tell in school. All he is doing is sharing whatever the fuck it is he's been reading. For some fucking reason RI means a lot to me and came through in our past darkest hours. It sounds idiotic but I stick around because shit like this don't affect me.

Again, AD does not bother me whatsoever and I think he should be shown a level of respect because of this quirkiness.

An "esteemed" member! This is a fucking message board for christ fucking sakes.
(and don't fool yourself into thinking "shit like this don't affect me" -- clearly, it does.)

I get that YOU think AD's‎ intentions are inherently good (and they may well be -- I personally don't factor that into the content itself).

But again, you continue to project your own thoughts/feelings into this and expect all others to act accordingly/be in line with whatever your own thoughts and feelings are (contradicting yourself along the way), and that's simply absurd.

What you need, dude, is a Virtual Reality version of RigInt. That way, you can set it up just how YOU like it, within YOUR comfort zone. You can preserve the sanctity of this precious forum on YOUR terms. Your own RigInt sandbox.
You wouldn't need to fret any longer.

But otherwise, stop trying to control what you CAN'T control. Follow your own advice. Re-read what YOU typed with respect to AD and apply it to ALL.

It will all work itself out in the end.

No, bro. I just accept. AD comes from where he comes from. That's his deal. I cannot answer for anything anyone does, clearly. Just he is just fine with me and that is about it.

What does that even mean? What do you accept, exactly? What does where he comes from have to do with anything, and why do you apparently not consider where anyone else may or may not come from, or "accept" the replies/comments by others? I don't think anyone here refuses to "accept" AD -- some may simply disagree with his tactics and/or a portion of his views, and are simply expressing such disagreements. All fair game.

Again, you're projecting your own take on AD and expecting others to fall in line with it. It's clear what YOU think/feel about this. Let others express their own take on it, and allow it to play out. Trust the mods to handle the rest when appropriate.

I told myself to avoid any further replies to this, but I'm more befuddled, not less, with each of your postings on this topic.
Cutting myself off now -- don't want to perpetuate this further. Proceed as you deem fit, needless to say.

(I shall meditate henceforth to summon the strength to avoid replying to any future AD-related 'fanfare')

[82_28]

No it comes from an esteemed member here and that is it. This member likes him in real life and that is good enough for me.

[coffin_dodger]

Sav-he don't get it. There will be others that do, though.

[Wombaticus Rex]

Can someone please explain where AD's posts threaten anyone?...

As a possibly more impartial observer, and one who was not and never will be part of the RI 'club'. my take on this might be of interest.

There is no club. You've been recycling content too much. I respect your linguistic judo; but I'm just fucking sick of seeing you type this same script over and over again, man. Take a month off. Come back like you belong here, or don't come back.

[Belligerent Savant]

Sav-he don't get it. There will be others that do, though.

That may well be, but for the record, if ever 82_28 and/or AD and I cross paths in the flesh somewhere, I wouldn't hesitate to offer my hand if they needed it, or otherwise a couple of rounds of their libations of choice, and I'm sure they'd do likewise... (well, perhaps not AD -- he may instead report me to the antifa patrol units to be re-conditioned in accordance with all that is true and just...)

[82_28]

Now don't go lumping me in with AD! I only just let anything he says go -- "copy pasta" or not. Not calling him a child but it's like when your kid first learns how to ride a bike. Freedom. . .

[coffin_dodger]

Hey 82, I totally respect your loyalty (I would definitely want you covering my back in certain situations) and it's clear you are a loyal friend. Cheers, mate.

[kool maudit]

It's not very hard to figure out. American Dream is a leftist whose primary interests are the identity issues: racism, sexism, homophobia and that general sort of thing.

You need, in these types of conversations, to consider which issues are at the cerntre of your own analysis or critique, your own praxis.

At present, my "RI" issues are imperial/dynastic control systems, ritual workings, symbolism, and parapolitics.

If and when I bump up against AD, it's because the interaction between my primary concerns and his can leave me feeling as if I am dealing with a taboo-enforcer (which scans negative, given my concern-areas) and doubtlessly leaves him feeling as if he is dealing with someone who is slippery or evasive on what he sees as the most important human issues of the day (negative, again, given his praxis).

This is not to say that, oh whatever, it's all the same in the end – no. We're very different forumers. We almost certainly differ in key, heartfelt areas.

But I know his deal. I know what he is presenting. Remember that tolerance isn't the same as approval; it can even include a degree of distaste.

But it's still a good goal for a place like this.