Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

[MacCruiskeen]

Can someone please point me to at least one (in figures:1) actual physical description* of the killer by any of the surviving eyewitnesses? I'm finding it surprisingly difficult, i.e. completely impossible, to locate such a thing.

Thanks.

*Y'know, "big guy", "muscular guy", "Arab-looking guy", "masked guy", "blond guy", "three guys", "a tiny little woman", or whatever. Stuff like that. Or even "I recognised him as Omar Mateen, who was a regular in the club."


Not one eyewitness (of whom there were many) described the alleged San Bernardino killers as strikingly different in height or weight. Not one eyewitness even mentioned a woman.

[82_28]

Sorry, mac. Fixed.

[82_28]

Sorry, mac. Fixed.

Oh you did it just as I did. Anyway, disregard.

[MacCruiskeen]

So far, I have seen not one ounce of evidence that he did it. Not a smidgeon. Nothing whatsoever except unsupported assertions from the fucking FBI and unnnamed fucking "sources". ("Yes indeed, sir, you bet, he called us from the club and said he supported ISIS. Yes, you may quote me on that, but don't mention my name and don't ask to hear the phone call. That would be disrespectful to the survivors at a very difficult time for all of us. Plus, this is an ongoing investigation.")

[82_28]

It would be highly impossible to recognize anyone on a regular basis in a loud laser filled, hundreds of people night club. You'd have to be a super-regular to even be recognized. I highly doubt clubs have super regulars. Could be! But I don't know. If dude was casing the joint for his attack and when it would be most possible, perhaps he could have been noticed. But from the photos online his countenance changed quite a bit.

[MacCruiskeen]

See what I wrote.

- Also, bathrooms are lit, and quiet.

He had how many hostages in there?

For how long, exactly?

Did any of them survive?

Did any of them describe the killer's appearance, or his stature, or his clothes, or his voice?

If so, will we ever hear even a single word from any of those surviving eyewitnesses?

Questions, questions... Very obvious and simple and important questions. And not one fucking so-called journalist makes even the tiniest effort to ask them,.

[82_28]

Now there is this and probably be dropped in the "Animal Uprising" thread:

Alligator attacks 2-year-old boy at Disney World, recovery effort continues

A 2-year-old boy who was attacked and dragged into the water by an alligator on the shores of Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa Tuesday night was still missing early Wednesday morning.

Jeff Williamson with Florida Fish & Wildlife said the child had not been located. Deputies are in the water and air, calling it a search and rescue operation.

"Right now we're going to bring in some fresh eyes and continue with the search," Williamson said. "Prepare for the worst, hope for the best."

Teams searching for the toddler found four gators, but no sign of the child.

Orange County Sheriff’s deputies are using sonar today to search the man-made lake, with help from a helicopter and 10-person dive team, Williamson said.

Additional Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission officers will also be in boats searching.

Nick Wiley, executive director of FWC, said investigators aren’t giving up hope in their search, but the chances of a successful rescue fade the longer it goes on.

Wiley said attacks such as this are “very rare,” especially with a toddler.

“Right now, all we’re doing is searching for a little boy to hopefully bring a family some closure,” Williamson said.

It’s unknown how many gators are in the Seven Seas Lagoon. Officials didn’t have the lake’s size, but said the search area is large and connects to other water ways.

“We just want to keep searching and searching and searching until we can't search anymore,” Williamson said.

Orange County Sheriff Jerry Demings said Tuesday that rescue personnel had been actively looking for the child in the Seven Seas Lagoon for hours in a search and recovery effort but had not found him. They hoped to find him before daylight, he said. A dive team with sonar equipment was on standby -- just part of a 50-person rescue team on the scene.

"As a father, as a grandfather, we're going to hope for the best in these circumstances, but based on my 35 years of law enforcement experience, we know we have some challenges ahead of us," Demings said.

Demings said the Nebraska family of five was relaxing on the shoreline when the alligator attacked the boy. The father entered the water and tried to pry the child from the gator, but was unsuccessful. He had scratches on his hands after the ordeal.

Parents then alerted a nearby lifeguard that an alligator had attacked the boy. Officials estimated it was between four and seven feet long.

The initial report came into officials at 9:16 p.m. Tuesday, Sheriff's Office spokeswoman Rose Silva said.

Deputies closed off the area with crime-scene tape. Multiple emergency vehicles filled the front drive of the Victorian-style hotel and a helicopter hovered overhead. About 50 members of the Reedy Creek Fire Rescue, Orange County and the Florida Fish and Wildlife officials joined forces to search for the child and the alligator.

There are no signs warning of gators in the area, but there are notices posted against swimming in the man-made lake.

The Grand Floridian is an upscale luxury resort owned by Disney. It is one of three hotels on the monorail line, just one stop away from the Magic Kingdom Park.

Jacquee Wahler, Vice President of Walt Disney World Resort Disney said he was "devastated" by the event.

"Everyone here at the Walt Disney World Resort is devastated by this tragic accident. Our thoughts are with the family," he said. "We are helping the family and doing everything we can to assist law enforcement."

Hotel guest A.J. Jain and his wife traveled from Georgia to Disney for a conference.

“I’m just here to say a prayer,” he said. “I can’t imagine what those parents are going through. It’s been one tough week in Orlando.”

This is just the latest tragedy in the Orlando area within a week span.

Singer Christina Grimmie was killed after a concert at the Plaza Live Friday night. The gunman killed himself after shooting her.

Early Sunday, a gunman killed 49 people and injured more than 50 others at the Pulse nightclub. The gunman was killed by law enforcement as they raided the club.

"We are all doing our best to deal with all the situations that we have going on here, but our staff is very resilient. And tonight, they're very focused on assisting this family."

This is a developing story. Check back for updates.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/bre ... story.html

[MacCruiskeen]

^^Maybe it's Omar Mateen's son. (His wife is being fed to the press as we speak.)

[82_28]

See what I wrote.

- Also, bathrooms are lit, and quiet.

He had how many hostages in there?

For how long, exactly?

Did any of them survive?http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-child-dragged-alligator-disney-20160614-story.html

Did any of them describe the killer's appearance, or his stature, or his clothes, or his voice?

If so, will we ever hear even a single word from any of those surviving eyewitnesses?

Questions, questions... Very obvious and simple and important questions. And not one fucking so-called journalist makes even the tiniest effort to ask them,.

I read it. I just think that we posted at the same time.

[Karmamatterz]

Can anyone explain how this solemn thread has totally devolved into name calling?

No wait, don't! Stay on topic. The personal insults and vitriol needs to go away. Thanks!

Stay on topic? LOL, this is RI!

Indeed there is a solemn aspect to the compassion for fellow humans murdered. Their time cut short by a psychopath. That's worth some pause. I get where you're coming from 82, you are a very passionate and compassionate fellow human being.

But let's not kid ourselves about what RI is and the fact this forum is primarily here for semi-open and semi-intelligent conversations about events and strange weirdness. Certainly if a broad range of perspectives can't be discussed then fold it up and put a stake in this wobbly, old and creaky forum. Partially addressing the really bad software used, but that is an entirely different issue. People are going to disagree here. Better to have some disagreement and force folks to defend positions than more of the echo chamber. Some folks here just can't tolerate opposing politics and values, which results in a lot of shit slinging. Peoples feelings get hurt and then it appears this is more of a emotional support group rather than having any logic or reason to it. Logic and rational thought are sometimes the first things tossed out the window here. That's a bit schizophrenic at times, but hey it's RI and it's still breathing, warts and all.

There is a broad range of different values, personalities, lifestyles and politics represented by each and very person. That fact by itself will result in widely different opinions. Yes it would be nice if we all got along without pissing matches, smug replies and such. It's the medium itself that causes a lot of this, same with email and texting. In person conversations provide the opportunity for people explain, read body language and understand each other. Anonymous Internet forums do not.

[MacCruiskeen]

ffs

[MacCruiskeen]

Here's another simple and obvious and important question that I bet you a million dollars no journalist will ever even raise:

How many people held hostage in that club were in fact killed by the police rescue team?

It might be none, it might be some, it might be many. But the question is worth asking and will not be asked (like every other fucking question worth asking).

[82_28]

Just like everything like this, we'll never know.

[0_0]

Hey Mac, in answer to your 2 questions, here's what i read so far:

1.

will we ever hear even a single word from any of those surviving eyewitnesses?

There was a story in the Daily Mail (sorry) about a black survivor who was left alive, apparently because "blacks had suffered enough" according to the shooter.
-> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... nough.html

There's a link to a pressconference with this eyewitness in the article.

2.

How many people held hostage in that club were in fact killed by the police rescue team?

Orlando, FL – New details have emerged that may shed more light on the extreme casualty count in the Orlando nightclub killings. On Monday, Orlando Police Chief John Mina intimated that some of the victims may have been killed by officers trying to perform a rescue operation.

“I will say this, that’s all part of the investigation,” Mina said. “But I will say when our SWAT officers, about eight or nine officers, opened fire, the backdrop was a concrete wall, and they were being fired upon.”

A confidential law enforcement source close to the investigation said a crowd of up to 300 people within the club — combined with the complex layout of the structure — may have resulted in numerous patrons being struck by gunfire from officers, according to WFAA-ABC 8.

Mina stood by his decision to employ a tactical strike amidst the rising likelihood that a number of the dead were the result of “friendly fire” from officers.

“It was a hard decision to make, but it was the right decision,” he said. “Our No. 1 priority is on saving lives, and it was the right decision to make.”

-> http://www.blacklistednews.com/Police_A ... 8/Y/M.html

[Wombaticus Rex]

An AR-15 is not a flute but then again, neither is this, and there was one of these onstage downstairs that night: