Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

[82_28]

Again, if guns go away, I don't give a fuck. It could drum up a faux revolution, but it will be fake. They could hold the revolutionary battles at Disneyland.

[Wombaticus Rex]

Frankly from your perspective NOTHING is reliable or true. We should all dismiss every bit of info gathered and shared from the media.

It does not hurt to have regular interjections to remind us of this. Sure, it's frustrating when that lens gets aimed at us, but ... it's kinda why we're here, yeah? Otherwise we could all just fuck off to Facebook and the YouTube comment section.

[FourthBase]

Again, if guns go away, I don't give a fuck. It could drum up a faux revolution, but it will be fake. They could hold the revolutionary battles at Disneyland.

No. It will not be fake.

[Wombaticus Rex]

What in the fuck kind of CIA agenda would be advanced by simultaneous gun attacks against gay targets on each coast, one by a radical Muslim and one by a white reactionary? I'm stumped.

Getting key demographics to support expanded and legalized state surveillance. Because America has too many bad people and too many guns. Doesn't seem like that much of a puzzle.

Me, I considered the possibility that the LA attack was the staged one, and called off when Omar beat them do it. Hillary was already in there doing photo ops with the mayor, who is a very ambitious woman.

There's a lot of folks in Langley, always have been, who are progressive liberals. The Realpolitik of leaving America swimming in guns is probably more burden than they want to bear; I suspect Bloomberg's next 4 years of anti-gun messaging will have a lot of tactical support for that crowd. Note the celebrity generals all signing up for anti-gun campaigns in recent weeks, too.

Always something. Statists gonna state....

[Wombaticus Rex]

Yes, but as it stands, there is still the matter of Howell. The odds of two separate mass violence attacks on gays coming from two separate subsets of hate being planned on separate coasts for the same day is...not impossible, but pretty fucking hard-to-believe.

It's Pride Month, both were Pride events. You might as well be baffled at all the colorful parades going on that weekend...is that just some kind of coincidence? Ha! I don't believe it, either.

[82_28]

Uh yeah, it would be fake. It would be about firearms. Firearms have no place unless you let them have a place. I appreciate hunters and stuff. But yeah this "revolution" would be held on false premises. Thus fake.

Check the prophet Gil Scott Heron.

[Elihu]

Jesus christ, Elihu. It only just took place.

What has happened to people's attention spans? And when did people stop expecting investigations, due process, respect for the burden of proof, close questioning of eyewitnesses and police chiefs, trials, legality, all that old-school stuff? When did it all become just one huge spectacle?

People are consuming these mass murders like movies now: as entertainment. Or like popcorn. "When's the next show? Any good?"

Meanwhile, from the memory hole: 1) The Feds are still grilling his wife. 2) No eyewitness has yet identified the killer(s). 3) It is far from ruled out that many if not most of the victims were killed by police bullets.

I don't know exactly, it was subtle and happened over time. Now we get bought off with "Boston strong" and stuff like that, more feel good tv. The cops investigate themselves= no justice. They already have our money what could be done anyway? You'd better believe they will prosecute dissention. Easier bad guy targets and the wars go on.

Have I spoken un-truthfully? Fine I'll chill till we've had time to grieve.

[Wombaticus Rex]

Uh yeah, it would be fake. It would be about firearms. Firearms have no place unless you let them have a place. I appreciate hunters and stuff. But yeah this "revolution" would be held on false premises. Thus fake.

Check the prophet Gil Scott Heron.

I'd advise you to read up on the French, Russian and American revolutions and tell if any of those were "real," because damn, bud, you're describing the very fabric of history, here. All that meaning and purpose and clarity and heroism gets penciled in during the decades after the clusterfuck ends.

[MacCruiskeen]

Frankly from your perspective NOTHING is reliable or true. We should all dismiss every bit of info gathered and shared from the media.

It does not hurt to have regular interjections to remind us of this. Sure, it's frustrating when that lens gets aimed at us, but ... it's kinda why we're here, yeah? Otherwise we could all just fuck off to Facebook and the YouTube comment section.

It's also not true that I think that nothing is reliable or true. The accusation is just plain daft. Loads of things are true and reliable, obviously.

It is true that Australia exists, for example, and I say that with perfect confidence even though I've never been there. (I only have it on hearsay.) It is also true that England just beat Wales 2-1 in the EM, and I say that too with complete confidence although I got that news only off teh internet. It is true that [one googolplex true facts omitted here], it is true that bears shit not only in the woods but also in zoos and on ice floes, and finally, it is true that Amaryllis Fox does indeed sound like a porn name.

If you have any other questions, do feel free to ask me. That's what I'm here for, apparently, at least until the end of eternity.

[82_28]

Uh yeah, it would be fake. It would be about firearms. Firearms have no place unless you let them have a place. I appreciate hunters and stuff. But yeah this "revolution" would be held on false premises. Thus fake.

Check the prophet Gil Scott Heron.

I'd advise you to read up on the French, Russian and American revolutions and tell if any of those were "real," because damn, bud, you're describing the very fabric of history, here. All that meaning and purpose and clarity and heroism gets penciled in during the decades after the clusterfuck ends.

I'm under"gunned" here, but The Revolution Will Not be Televised was poking at the irony of the artificialness of everything. Which we all know. But whatever.

[FourthBase]

Uh yeah, it would be fake. It would be about firearms. Firearms have no place unless you let them have a place. I appreciate hunters and stuff. But yeah this "revolution" would be held on false premises. Thus fake.

Check the prophet Gil Scott Heron.

I thought you meant fake as in, staged, inconsequential, unbloody. Thousands upon thousands of people would die. Maybe millions. You are underestimating how many Americans would see overturning the 2nd as a causus belli, as an intolerable act, the worst of all...or, the second worst, at least. You are also underestimating how the left would react. An armed revolt from the right is exactly the kind of prompt the left needs for an armed revolt of its own. Or would it be an armed counterrevolt from the left, this time? And all this might result semi-unintentionally from the paternalistic designs of progressive liberals at CIA, or maybe it's all happening at once, each by turns overlapping and taunting and coopting and preempting and piggybacking and badjacketing and blackmailing the other.

[Karmamatterz]

And when did people stop expecting investigations, due process, respect for the burden of proof, close questioning of eyewitnesses and police chiefs, trials, legality, all that old-school stuff? When did it all become just one huge spectacle?

How about in the years immediately after JFK was murdered?
9/11
TWA 800
etc...
The list is very long.

I don't trust an actual court proceeding much more than what's in the media, maybe 20% more at best. Old school court shenanigans take place and evidence is squashed no different than disinfo is placed in the media. Having attended both local/state and federal court trials I can tell you there is an awful lot of BS that takes place in those halls of "justice." It's all one big circle jerk. One mention of national security and zip, there goes a ton of info locked up the public will never see.

Only way to get decent info from Santa Monica PD is to have boots on the ground there. Better yet be a regular face at their cop shop. That is none of us, it would be a local reporter, attorney or a friend of the cops. Likely in this case they would not release much in the way of police reports to reporters, even if you're local and known. Info has to be gotten through off the record conversations.

[82_28]

Absolutely not, 4B. There is always an inconsistency or two in shit like this. Believe me, I do, in fact know this with little to any uncertainty living a mile or so from Columbine when it happened. I knew the town and knew peeps personally affected. That ain't no street cred I want, just I noticed shit.

[Nordic]

Just woke up and checking the latest.

For some odd reason, the notion that Mateen did not act alone and there was more than one shooter is in the mainstream this morning. CNN of all places has more than one story. Sorry, too lazy to try to link, I admit. Take my word for it.

I also came here to report on what Chump posted about the Santa Monica guy. While this cannot be corroborated it has a certain "Makes a lot of sense" smell to it. It would certainly explain why the guy was seen prowling around this particular apartment building, frustrated enough in his attempts to find someone in there that the neighbors called the cops. (And as a 7 year resident of Santa Monica I have to disagree with the poster about the police. They will show up fairly quickly for a report of an assault or a burglar fast enough. If your account is hacked and cleaned out of its money and they say they're going to come over and talk to you, they may not. I know all of this from personal experience).

Some of the survivors are saying that Matern was on the phone talking to what seemed to be other attackers. The Santa Monica guy seems to have known about Mateen and for all we know was in contact with him.

The plot is definitely thickening. Hope it actually goes somewhere this time, unlike in Boston, where a cop's bullet in the head of a witness seems to have stopped things in its tracks

[FourthBase]

Yes, but as it stands, there is still the matter of Howell. The odds of two separate mass violence attacks on gays coming from two separate subsets of hate being planned on separate coasts for the same day is...not impossible, but pretty fucking hard-to-believe.

It's Pride Month, both were Pride events. You might as well be baffled at all the colorful parades going on that weekend...is that just some kind of coincidence? Ha! I don't believe it, either.

The gay nightclub is gay the other 11 months of the year, too. Mateen had been going to it himself for years. Pride Month has nothing to do with the timing in that one, right?

And for Howell to have committed his on the very same day? Both with assault rifles? Again, not impossible. But pretty fucking far from probable, too.