Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

[FourthBase]

So there's no special relationship to martyrdom for Islamic terrorists?

Believer, adherent. Adjectives. That other word is a noun like "demon" or "pixie" or "elf",
Something symbolically evil requiring universal recognition. A general term for fear itself implying all out war. In other words believing in terrorists.

No, it's a noun that describes a tactic. Terrorists exist. Terrorism is a reality. Even when it's false flag terrorism, it's still terrorism, just committed by a different party under false pretenses.

You may believe some terrorists have been brainwashed or manipulated or set up or assisted or whatever. I do, too. But if you believe there has not also actually been thousands of true believing Muslim fanatics who've nervously but happily martyred themselves in suicidal terror attacks, then you are disconnected from reality. Not "reality", but reality. It'd be like refusing to believe that there were kamikaze pilots in WWII or refusing to believe that there was a special ethos in Japanese culture which inspired kamikaze attacks.

[Elihu]

Why put a label on a tactic? As if the Islamic type needs special attention? As if we could accept the rest if we attack and kill this part? Looking for terrorists is fine. Looking for Islamic terrorists means good luck we are clueless

[MacCruiskeen]

But if you believe there has not also actually been thousands of true believing Muslim fanatics who've nervously but happily martyred themselves in suicidal terror attacks, then you are disconnected from reality. Not "reality", but reality.

"Nervously but happily." You can read minds. You are not deranged, no sirree. "Thousands". Sic. Citation for that number? Links?

Let's make this much, much simpler, Mister Base: You, as a self-proclaimed expert on derangement and reality, should list all the terror attacks in the West since 2000 which you think were carried out by suicidal Muslims acting alone and deliberately, not manipulated or tricked or set up as patsies. and knowingly embracing their own deaths and the deaths of many innocent civilians.

For example, here are the four biggest and worse and most highly-publicised cases in the US and UK this century -- all of them allegedly "Islamist" "suicide" terror attacks:

1. 9/11

2. 7/7

3. San Bernardino

4. Orlando

- Any others that come to mind? List them, if so.

Prediction: That's going to be 4x "Yes" from you. 4x "true believing Muslim fanatics who've nervously but happily martyred themselves in suicidal terror attacks."

But correct me if I'm wrong.

Have at it. Let's have some o' that there reality stuff, which you own in such abundance.

[MacCruiskeen]

This is exciting. I love to learn.

[Agent Orange Cooper]

Hey MC, quick aside: is your nom de plume taken from The Third Policeman? Because that's awesome if so.

[FourthBase]

But if you believe there has not also actually been thousands of true believing Muslim fanatics who've nervously but happily martyred themselves in suicidal terror attacks, then you are disconnected from reality. Not "reality", but reality.

"Nervously but happily." You can read minds. You are not deranged, no sirree. "Thousands". Sic. Citation for that number? Links?

Let's make this much, much simpler, Mister Base: You, as a self-proclaimed expert on derangement and reality, should list all the terror attacks in the West since 2000 which you think were carried out by suicidal Muslims acting alone and deliberately, not manipulated or tricked or set up as patsies. and knowingly embracing their own deaths and the deaths of many innocent civilians.

Nice try. Not just the West. The world. That was part of the point, right? That there's no reason to expect an Islamic terrorist attack in the West to differ in spirit or practice from the many, many, many Islamic terrorist attacks in the non-West. Right? Otherwise, why does anyone ever suspiciously point to how this or that Islamic terrorist in the West drank booze or went to strip clubs or sucked dick. Because you expect them to act like Islamic terrorists are supposed to act.

You realize that tallies exist online for the total number of Islamic terrorist attacks in the world over the last 10-20 years, right? Do you think I just pulled thousands out of my ass? Guess what. I didn't. Look it up for yourself.

For example, here are the four biggest and worse and most highly-publicised cases in the US and UK this century -- all of them allegedly "Islamist" "suicide" terror attacks:

1. 9/11

2. 7/7

3. San Bernardino

4. Orlando

- Any others that come to mind? List them, if so.

Prediction: That's going to be 4x "Yes" from you. 4x "true believing Muslim fanatics who've nervously but happily martyred themselves in suicidal terror attacks."

But correct me if I'm wrong.

To the Muslim fanatics involved, yes. Times four. To them, they were martyring themselves. Nervously? Eh, maybe not. Some of them are coldblooded psychopaths. Happily? Yes -- otherwise they wouldn't. Murderous fanatics get happy when they accomplish goals, just like everybody else. For instance, Mateen and his laughter. Of course, I think 9/11 and 7/7 are suspicious in a heaping shitload of other ways. I do not think that only the Muslim fanatics were responsible. San Bernardino looks to me like WYSIWYG, your broken infinitely skeptical clock notwithstanding. Orlando, who knows yet. But does it appear so far that, whatever other weird shit is happening and whoever else is responsible, Mateen was a fanatical Muslim terrorist, yes. He was enough of one, anyway.

But anyway, your quiz to me about four attacks in the West was off-point. Please re-read the relevant posts in the last several pages to refresh your memory about what the actual fucking point was.

Have at it. Let's have some o' that there reality stuff, which you own in such abundance.

Given.

I'm not sure if I'm reality-abundant.
I think you're just reality-deficient.

[tapitsbo]

I've been watching Mac's posts here for some time and appreciate the sentiment, sharing it to a large extent.

Mac's posts suggest an obvious jumping off point to me - what groups and cliques would have the capacity, cohesiveness, and willpower to control messaging about these events as he suggests is being done? The deft co-ordination, as well as other data points, suggest to me a small group, and if documenting suspicions is dangerous, personal research in these areas is at the very least an inspiring model of what can be accomplished with sufficient motivation.

Of course FourthBase I agree with you too to a large extent, one only need look at Twitter to witness thousands and thousands of apparently genuine passive supporters of IS and similar groups very candidly expressing their enthusiasm for the smaller but still very active core of willing martyrs. Of course such social media platforms are quick to crack down on prolonged probing of the sort featured on this message board, at its best.

[MacCruiskeen]

Christ, Mister Reality FourthBase, you are even worse than I thought! You believe everything your Authorities tell you! 9/11, 7/7, San Bernardino, Orlando - Evil Suicidal Muzzlims dunnit, every time, all on their own and willingly! You know this, because [cue drumroll]... you saw it on the telly. Reality = TV.

What a self-deflating windbag you are. You do realise you've just outed yourself, not for the first time, but most embarrassingly? It's long been clear that you are a powerworshipping anti-Muslim bigot -- a fascist, in fact. But you now make it unambiguously clear that you are also completely impervious to evidence or argument, and completely indifferent to truth, reality and justice -- or rather that you are actively hostile to all three. It's good to understand this because it saves time. There is no point in even trying to reason with you. That's useful to know.

This thread has been a learning experience, all right. So thanks, FourthBase, for putting all of your, er, knowledge on the record for us. Whenever you bloviate about Islamic Suicide Terror or about anything else at all, I will remember the Talking Anus in that Burroughs book and remind myself that you too are merely doing what you can.

---

Back on-topic. Has even one of the hundreds of surviving eyewitnesses yet actually described the killer? - I know that this is a decidedly fringe interest and a sure sign of derangement, but I would like to know, if possible. Because...



^^Big Man & Tiny Woman were described by precisely none (in figures: 0) of the dozens of surviving close-range eyewitnesses to that daylight attack, much less actually identified as the culprits. They were parents of a tiny baby and are of course now conveniently dead (riddled with police bullets before they could speak to anyone).

[PufPuf93]

Back on-topic. Has even one of the hundreds of survivors yet actually described the killer? (I know that this is a decidedly fringe interest and a sure sign of derangement, but I would like to know, if possible.)

I have watched many main stream videos and have heard no first hand eye witness description of Omar the shooter in action.

I have seen cell phone footage from inside the club that was mostly confusion with the sound of shots but no footage of the shooter.

The folks hostage with the shooter in the bathroom during the siege have not described the shooter.

Allegedely part of the initial contact was between the shooter and an armed guard but this part of the narrative has not been detailed other than the failure to stop the shooter. To my knowledge the guard has not been identified nor quoted in media.

[MacCruiskeen]

Back on-topic. Has even one of the hundreds of survivors yet actually described the killer? (I know that this is a decidedly fringe interest and a sure sign of derangement, but I would like to know, if possible.)

I have watched many main stream videos and have heard no first hand eye witness description of Omar the shooter in action.

I have seen cell phone footage from inside the club that was mostly confusion with the sound of shots but no footage of the shooter.

The folks hostage with the shooter in the bathroom during the siege have not described the shooter.

Allegedely part of the initial contact was between the shooter and an armed guard but this part of the narrative has not been detailed other than the failure to stop the shooter. To my knowledge the guard has not been identified nor quoted in media.

Thank you, PufPuf93.

Not one physical description of the killer(s). Not one. WHY NOT?

ffs

[MacCruiskeen]

Request: Could we change the title of this thread to "Massacre in Orlando Nightclub" or "The Orlando Mass Shooting Thread", or something similar?

- That was quick! Thanks.

[MacCruiskeen]

Look at this torrent of creepy innuendo and slimy insinuation and obvious blatant lies. Listen to these anonymous "sources", via their wholly contemptible stenographers. It is just shameful:

(CNN)The Orlando shooter and his wife exchanged text messages during the Pulse nightclub rampage, a law enforcement official briefed on the investigation told CNN.

Around 4 a.m. on June 12, about two hours after he started the attack and while holed up in a bathroom, Omar Mateen texted his wife, Noor Salman, asking if she'd seen the news [HOW SUSPICIOUS, EH?], the official said.

At one point, she responded with a text saying that she loved him. Salman also tried calling her husband several times during the standoff [BUT NEVER GOT THROUGH, OR WHAT?], a second [??!!!] law enforcement official said. [CNN IS BEING BRIEFED BY AN ANONYMOUS FUCKING ***TEAM***.]

The timing of her calls came after reports of the attack had emerged, and apparently [STOP DOING THAT) after she realized her husband might be [OH FUCK OFF] responsible. He didn't answer, the official said.

It's not clear if Salman made any attempt to report her husband during that time. [WTF? OF COURSE IT IS CLEAR WHETHER SHE DID OR NOT! THEY HAVE THE FUCKING PHONE RECORDS, AND THEY HAVE HER FUCKING PHONE.]

[....]

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/16/us/or ... ar-mateen/

Did even one of those worthless, despicable CNN/CIA hacks ever even think to ask for verbatim transcripts of those alleged text messages??? Like hell they did.

NB: 1. There is not one single incriminating statement from him or from her reported in that entire fucking excuse for an article.

2. She herself can easily demonstrate exactly what they texted to each other that night (if anything at all).

So exactly what are the cops doing to Omar Mateen's wife right now?? Threatening her, presumably, and threatening her child. Making sure she never dares to speak out. They've been grilling her for days now. She must be a very tough nut to crack. She is clearly not saying what they want her to say.



Noor Zahi Salman's life is in serious danger.

Noor Zahi Salman: Everything You’re Hearing About Me Is a Lie

by Sam Husseini

June 16, 2016

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/06/16/ ... -is-a-lie/

[PufPuf93]

Evidently there are security videos from the Pulse nightclub that show Omar Mateen firing the assault rifle within the nightclub and the videos are in the hands of federal investigators (one would assume FBI).

http://abcnews.go.com/ABCNews/cold-bloo ... d=39942771

'Cold-Blooded Mowing' of Victims Seen in Surveillance Video From Pulse Nightclub

Federal authorities have recovered video from security cameras inside Orlando's Pulse nightclub that shows shooter Omar Mateen firing his assault rifle and systematically killing innocent victims, sources told ABC News.

The violence depicted in the video can only be described as "cold-blooded mowing, walking through the rooms mowing people down," one source said.

Orlando Police Chief Describes Officers' Heroic Actions After Orlando Shooting

Sources characterized the video -- pulled from cameras deployed in multiple rooms of the nightclub -- as chilling and unnerving. The video portrays Mateen as a relentless assassin, reloading his weapon more than once as he murdered his victims.

The video could prove critical in helping law enforcement understand precisely how the killing took place.

Mateen killed 49 people and injured 53 others after opening fire inside Pulse early Sunday morning.

[MacCruiskeen]

Evidently Allegedly there are security videos from the Pulse nightclub that show Omar Mateen a blurred, unidentifiable figure firing the assault rifle within the nightclub and allegedly the videos are in the hands of federal investigators (one would assume FBI and/or CIA).

Fixed that for you.

In any case, those are videos that no mere mortal will ever be allowed to see, just as we will never see any proof of those alleged text messages. (It's so convenient when the Designated Bad Guy is safely dead and therefore silent. It obviates the need for even a show-trial. And it's so inconvenient when his wife is still alive and well and refusing to stick to the script.)

[nashvillebrook]

POTUS was here in Orlando yesterday. He actually seemed to be disuading people from a terrorist angle. FBI Chief Comey has said there's no clear terrorist angle, that Mateen is a mixed bag of nuttery. None of the pols here on the scene have been pushing a "terrorists did it" agenda. Everything has been focused on the hate crime aspect.

Soooooo, maybe postpone the false flag freak out until there's an actual false flag campaign?