Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

[Novem5er]

Seriously: Are Left Activists going to make even the tiniest effort to actually organise a protest in Orlando or anywhere else?

Very Confident Prediction: No, of course not, because "left activists" are too completely and wilfully clueless and/or too abjectly terrified.of being called "conspiracy theorists (ffs) to even consider risking it. The possibility of organising a protest in Orlando will not be raised by even one single individuual on "The Left", and in the deeply unlikely event that anyone even tries (and persists), then that brave person will be shouted down very angrily indeed

If I'm even slightly wrong about any part of this prediction I will apologise immediately.

The suspense is bearable.

I was actually talking with my father today about the Dems sit-in protest on the House floor, demanding a vote for increased gun control. I made the point that Americans are probably the least politically involved of any first world nation, and possibly any nation. We are so un-involved that we literally have our elected leader stage a sit-in for us! We have Protest through Representation now!

A real protest would involve a million Americans surrounding the Capitol building, camping on the steps, fighting the police, and handcuffing themselves to the House benches until a vote was made. That's third-world democracy in action, where actual citizens aren't afraid to get their hands dirty, even when they should be a afraid.

[Agent Orange Cooper]

Some stuff I read about on FB:

City Officials Reportedly Won't Turnover Fire Code Inspection Records for Pulse Nightclub
http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/city-of ... nightclub/

Here is a 3D model of the interior of the nightclub:
http://www.tampabay.com/projects/2016/b ... ce-3d-map/

The place has 8 parking spots that I can see:


Obviously people could park elsewhere, but it gives you an idea of the expected occupancy of the building.

300 people in here? They would have been packed like sardines. I suppose it's possible, but then how the fuck does one guy with a giant gun not get dogpiled immediately?

[Burnt Hill]

Some stuff I read about on FB:

City Officials Reportedly Won't Turnover Fire Code Inspection Records for Pulse Nightclub
http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/city-of ... nightclub/

Here is a 3D model of the interior of the nightclub:
http://www.tampabay.com/projects/2016/b ... ce-3d-map/

The place has 8 parking spots that I can see:


Obviously people could park elsewhere, but it gives you an idea of the expected occupancy of the building.

300 people in here? They would have been packed like sardines. I suppose it's possible, but then how the fuck does one guy with a giant gun not get dogpiled immediately?

They were packed in like sardines, it was their most popular night -Latin Night.
There was valet parking in various off-site lots.
You would certainly be risking your life to jump an active shooter.
Hard to say how any individual would respond, perhaps some did try to jump him?
I thought fire code info was public access, probably local shenanigans.
But keep digging AOC!

[Novem5er]

More on the HIV angle of this story. There's some stuff in her for Mac, too. This story is getting some mainstream press, first it aired on Univision and this article is from Politico.

In an interview with Univision, the man said Mateen was “100 percent gay” and that the two had carried on a “friends with benefits” relationship after meeting last year through a gay dating app. He said he had reported his relationship with Mateen to the FBI and had been interviewed multiple times. The FBI also confirmed to Univision that it has met with him.
Story Continued Below

The man, who wore a disguise in his interview with Univision and was identified only as “Miguel,” said Mateen’s attack at Orlando’s Pulse nightclub was the result of a sexual encounter with two Latino men, one of which Mateen later discovered was HIV positive. The attack, carried out at the nightclub’s Latino night, was Mateen’s attempt at taking revenge against a specific community of gay men who he felt had used and rejected him, the man said.

And this part is for Mac:

Miguel described Mateen as a “very sweet guy” who “loved to be cuddled” and frequented gay bars. He said he was stunned when he discovered Mateen had been the shooter at Pulse, that it was “impossible that the man I know could do that.”

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/orlando-shooter-gay-lover-omar-mateen-224644

[Agent Orange Cooper]

They were packed in like sardines, it was their most popular night -Latin Night.
There was valet parking in various off-site lots.
You would certainly be risking your life to jump an active shooter.
Hard to say how any individual would respond, perhaps some did try to jump him?

If they were packed like sardines then there would have been no other choice. There would be nowhere to run because running would be impossible. There would have been as many people behind him as in front of him. He pulls out the gun and starts shooting, he could have been in a chokehold in seconds.

But keep digging AOC!

This feels a little condescending...? Your hand wave of this issue is hardly convincing.

[mentalgongfu2]

In an interview with Univision, the man said Mateen was “100 percent gay” and that the two had carried on a “friends with benefits” relationship after meeting last year through a gay dating app. He said he had reported his relationship with Mateen to the FBI and had been interviewed multiple times. The FBI also confirmed to Univision that it has met with him.
Story Continued Below

The man, who wore a disguise in his interview with Univision and was identified only as “Miguel,” said Mateen’s attack at Orlando’s Pulse nightclub was the result of a sexual encounter with two Latino men, one of which Mateen later discovered was HIV positive. The attack, carried out at the nightclub’s Latino night, was Mateen’s attempt at taking revenge against a specific community of gay men who he felt had used and rejected him, the man said.



And this part is for Mac:

Miguel described Mateen as a “very sweet guy” who “loved to be cuddled” and frequented gay bars. He said he was stunned when he discovered Mateen had been the shooter at Pulse, that it was “impossible that the man I know could do that.”

So in the same interview, this "Miguel" character states it is impossible the man he knew could have committed the crime, but also provides a specific motive for the man he knew to have committed said crime. Am I the only one that sees a blatant inconsistency?

[Burnt Hill]

Burnt hill wrote:

Judging from this and what witnesses say that they heard Mateen saying on a phone call, he believed he had help, inside and outside, and that he was going to escape. More evidence for his having been a player getting played.

That James Howell character who was apprehended in California with a car full of explosives and weapons also said that he believed he would attack the parade then be whisked away to safety but pulled the plug on the operation when he saw that Mateen had been killed.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/california-west-hollywood-suspect-aresenal/

http://getoffthebs.com/five-suspects-involved-in-planned-attacks/

Yes Heaven Swan, that's a really interesting area that remains to be properly explored.

[Novem5er]

In the first couple pages of this thread we have some cellphone video that was shot from within the club. It looked crowded, but not packed like sardines. Is that other building part of the club, the long roof going up by the black sedan in the picture?

@ mentalgongfu2, I agree that the guy did give a motive. I only highlighted that last part for Mac to throw a bone out there that people who knew Omar didn't think he was capable of violence.

-except his ex-wife who claimed he beat her.
-except his friend from the same mosque who called the FBI on him.
-except his ex-coworker who said he was constantly angry and using derogatory language towards blacks and women.

The truth is (hah, truth!) that people have complex personalities and show different sides to different people. Of course, there are the blatant liars out there who will say anything to get a bit of Internet fame. This is why courts rely so much on forensic evidence because personal testimony is so unreliable, and is often thrown out as hearsay. In the public court, hearsay is about all we get :p

[Burnt Hill]

They were packed in like sardines, it was their most popular night -Latin Night.
There was valet parking in various off-site lots.
You would certainly be risking your life to jump an active shooter.
Hard to say how any individual would respond, perhaps some did try to jump him?

If they were packed like sardines then there would have been no other choice. There would be nowhere to run because running would be impossible. There would have been as many people behind him as in front of him. He pulls out the gun and starts shooting, he could have been in a chokehold in seconds.

But keep digging AOC!

This feels a little condescending...? Your hand wave of this issue is hardly convincing.

Sorry man, that was genuine.
I was worried that refuting some of your points would seem condescending,
but I like that you are exploring the situation, honestly.

From the story we were given, the Shooter was actively shooting as he entered the club,
I would guess he had room to maneuver because of that.

[Agent Orange Cooper]

Is that other building part of the club, the long roof going up by the black sedan in the picture?

I believe that is an automobile detailing shop next door.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/PULSE ... 6794?hl=en

Sorry man, that was genuine.
I was worried that refuting some of your points would seem condescending,
but I like that you are exploring the situation, honestly.

Ah, cool. I get a little touchy sometimes.

From the story we were given, the Shooter was actively shooting as he entered the club,
I would guess sure he had room to maneuver because of that.

Whoa, really? I thought I had heard that he walked in and walked up to the bar, was standing there a while before he pulled out the weapon and shooting.

[mentalgongfu2]

Novem5er, my comment wasn't intended as a critique of your post. I am just seriously confused how "Miguel" finds it unfathomable his friend was the shooter but also provides such a specific and certain motive for his friend being the shooter. It seems to me the two are mutually exclusive.

[Burnt Hill]

Whoa, really? I thought I had heard that he walked in and walked up to the bar, was standing there a while before he pulled out the weapon and shooting.

I could be mis-remembering, but I thought the shooting started outside the club.
I am probably wrong. Lots of stuff to put together coherently so far, for me!

[82_28]

Looking at where The Pulse was, holy shit that had to be DUI central for the state patrol on any other night. 300 people in a place that really looks like it couldn't be easily walked to. I suppose cabs and uber or whatever could be used. Then again I have no knowledge of anything Florida.

[Burnt Hill]

Okay-

Around 2:02 a.m. ET: An officer working extra duty in uniform at the club hears gunshots and engages the shooter. The officer feels he is outgunned, retreats from the club, and calls for assistance. Two SWAT officers in a nearby patrol car are among units that respond and a gunbattle ensues.

I misinterpreted that as the shooting starting outside, but the officer retreats from the club so it started inside,
AOC do you have more details on how it started?

[Burnt Hill]

Novem5er, my comment wasn't intended as a critique of your post. I am just seriously confused how "Miguel" finds it unfathomable his friend was the shooter but also provides such a specific and certain motive for his friend being the shooter. It seems to me the two are mutually exclusive.

That's a pretty common view from loved ones when someones had a psychotic break
(not that is specifically what happened, but perhaps similar psychologically).
It must be hard to fathom how someone you "cuddled" with could murder anyone, until you examine other behaviors.