Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

[Iamwhomiam]

I can't believe you're serious. You act as though it will serve to prevent serious journalists from submitting such inquiries. It might stop a bunch of Alex Jones fans from asking, though.

[Agent Orange Cooper]

Where are these "serious journalists" you speak of? I'd like to meet some of them.

[Karmamatterz]

For what it's worth, which may or may not be worth much.
https://q.publicintelligence.net/wp-con ... cident.png

Full 21 page report with incident reports from multiple officers from the Orange accounts Sheriffs Office that responded to the Pulse nightclub.
https://info.publicintelligence.net/FL- ... eports.pdf

One I found of interest was the report which the deputy reported gunfire at the medical center just down the road.

[MacCruiskeen]

^^Thanks for those, Karmamatterz. Two things:

1. Many reports appear to be missing. There are big gaps. The reports are numbered consecutively, but they leap from No. 21 to No. 36, for example.

2. Only in the last one (No. 36, by Officer Kevin O'Malley) does any of the officers report even trying to gain any useful information from the survivors who had escaped while the shooter was still in the club. Not even the most obvious questions are asked of those survivors (How many shooters? Dressed how? In tactical gear? Armoured? Masked? Helmeted? Etc.) Or else, if any such questions were asked or any such descriptions were given, they have been removed from the edited selection presented here for public consumption.

[Burnt Hill]

Debriefing reports would remain confidential in an active investigation.

[MacCruiskeen]

Debriefing reports would remain confidential in an active investigation.

Demonstrably not!

The following incident report was released by the Orange County Sheriff's Office on June 25, 2016.

https://publicintelligence.net/orlando- ... g-reports/

jesus christ

[Burnt Hill]

Debriefing reports would remain confidential in an active investigation.

Demonstrably not!

The following incident report was released by the Orange County Sheriff's Office on June 25, 2016.

https://publicintelligence.net/orlando- ... g-reports/

jesus christ

That's an Incident Report, not a Debriefing Report.

[MacCruiskeen]

That's an Incident Report, not a Debriefing Report.

Ah, you're quite the expert, Burnt Hill.

So what's the exact difference? Enlighten us - and not with fibs for once, but with an actual link. [Cue panicky Googling and/or complete silence.]

And in any case: Why would even (selected) Incident Reports be released during a so-called "ongoing investigation"? I think we should be told, by you.

[Burnt Hill]

Ah, you're quite the expert, Burnt Hill.

So what's the exact difference? Enlighten us (not with fibs for once, but with an actual link).

And in any case: Why would even (selected) Incident Reports be released during a so-called "ongoing investigation"? Enlighten us.

You're smart enough, you can figure it out, if you want to.

[MacCruiskeen]

Your bluff's been called, yet again, Burnt Hill. It is laughable. You are not just a windbag and a blowhard, you are -- demonstrably -- a shameless and completely unapologetic liar. Again and again and again.

[Burnt Hill]

Your bluff's been called, yet again, Burnt Hill. It is laughable. You are not just a windbag and a blowhard, you are -- demonstrably -- a shameless and completely unapologetic liar. Again and again and again.

Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others

[MacCruiskeen]

Spare me your panicky Googling of unattributed quotes lifted from laughably irrelevant Wikipedia articles after you've been caught lying yet again, you timewasting, threadstretching liar. You are shameless, but people can read.

--------------------------------------------

Back on-topic.

[MacCruiskeen]

Orlando, Orlando...

The F.B.I. Deemed Agents Faultless in [All] 150 Shootings

By CHARLIE SAVAGE and MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT JUNE 18, 2013

WASHINGTON — After contradictory stories emerged about an F.B.I. agent’s killing last month of a Chechen man in Orlando, Fla., who was being questioned over ties to the Boston Marathon bombing suspects, the bureau reassured the public that it would clear up the murky episode.

“The F.B.I. takes very seriously any shooting incidents involving our agents, and as such we have an effective, time-tested process for addressing them internally,” a bureau spokesman said.

But if such internal investigations are time-tested, their outcomes are also predictable: from 1993 to early 2011, F.B.I. agents fatally shot about 70 “subjects” and wounded about 80 others — and every one of those episodes was deemed justified, according to interviews and internal F.B.I. records obtained by The New York Times through a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit.

The last two years have followed the same pattern: an F.B.I. spokesman said that since 2011, there had been no findings of improper intentional shootings.

In most of the shootings, the F.B.I.’s internal investigation was the only official inquiry. In the Orlando case, for example, there have been conflicting accounts about basic facts like whether the Chechen man, Ibragim Todashev, attacked an agent with a knife, was unarmed or was brandishing a metal pole. But Orlando homicide detectives are not independently investigating what happened.

“We had nothing to do with it,” said Sgt. Jim Young, an Orlando police spokesman. “It’s a federal matter, and we’re deferring everything to the F.B.I.”

[...]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/19/us/in ... d=all&_r=0

(A knife? A pole? Unarmed? I believe the FBI's final version was that Ibragim Todashev attacked that Fed with a table. Or maybe it was a packet of spaghetti, it's hard to keep up.)

Photos (graphic) of Ibragim Todashev, deceased.

[MacCruiskeen]

Some more of that annoying context stuff, from four weeks before the Orlando shootings:

FBI Is Manufacturing Terror Plots Against Jewish-Americans, Driving Divisions Between Jews and Muslims
Recent alleged terror plots reveal deeply troubling patterns in the FBI's practices.

By Aviva Stahl / AlterNet May 11, 2016

http://www.alternet.org/grayzone-projec ... ns-between

Max Blumenthal commented, via Twitter:

The FBI has encouraged several mentally ill Muslim men to attack Jewish targets. How is this not a national scandal?

How indeed. And of course it's unimaginable that the FBI would seek to drive divisions between Muslims and other minorities.

[Wombaticus Rex]

Incident Reports are narratives that get filed by officers involved, and in most states, they can also be filed on behalf of citizens. Debriefing Reports are actually different animals, a document created as the result of a source interview. Whether or not that is confidential is a matter of Florida State law, I'd imagine? They're generally kept confidential, though.

Just wanted to point out that, despite your admirable certainty, the dude is not lying, or even fibbing. The kind of information you're lamenting the glaring absence of -- ie, verbatim transcripts from witness interviews -- would not be included in the incident report...and it if was, that would probably be redacted.

Regardless, please continue to personally abuse anyone who questions you, and please continue to offer insightful psychoanalysis at no charge.