A Drone Was Used to Blow Up a US Citizen Without Trial

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A Drone Was Used to Blow Up a US Citizen Without Trial

Postby Blue » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:30 am

http://www.anonews.co/drone-in-dallas/

The Dallas shootings have ushered in a very new world for U.S. citizens. For the very first time, a drone has been used on U.S. soil to kill an American without trial or charges.

The suspected shooter On Thursday tragic killings, U.S. Army veteran Micah Xavier Johnson, was, according to police and press reports, holed up in a parking garage and would not give himself up. After hours of what police claimed were fruitless negotiations with Johnson, a weaponized robot was sent to where he was hiding and blown up, taking Johnson with it.

Get past the horror of what Johnson was accused of doing and think about that precedent for a moment. Is it not chilling?


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While I should not have been shocked by this, when I first heard about it my jaw dropped. Not even 24 hours of negotiations. I remember a few years ago when an armed guy held a child hostage in a school bus and the Feds took days to talk him out. But the really scary thing is the fucking huge numbers of bloodthirsty Americans who not only support this but cheer it on. Jokes about RoboCop without irony. I really need to get out of this HellHole.
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Re: A Drone Was Used to Blow Up a US Citizen Without Trial

Postby Luther Blissett » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:44 am

Thanks for making this thread. Christopher Dorner was a warning shot and I debated endlessly about what that whole saga portended. It's people like that who denied that it would ever happen who really pave the way for the pigs to start summarily executing citizens extrajudicially with robots.

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Re: A Drone Was Used to Blow Up a US Citizen Without Trial

Postby Blue » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:57 am

The Consumers have been indoctrinated to believe LEO Lives Matter more than any others. I guess it's going as planned. Back to back executions of black men in broad daylight followed by a Cop Killer event big enough to erase the aforementioned executions.

I saw a flag at half-staff the other day and it took a moment then I realized what it was for. They used to only do it for dead presidents. Now it seems to be a weekly event and instead of shocking people it's making them more willing to bow to Authoritay.
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Re: A Drone Was Used to Blow Up a US Citizen Without Trial

Postby divideandconquer » Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:00 pm

Blue » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:57 am wrote:The Consumers have been indoctrinated to believe LEO Lives Matter more than any others. I guess it's going as planned. Back to back executions of black men in broad daylight followed by a Cop Killer event big enough to erase the aforementioned executions.

I saw a flag at half-staff the other day and it took a moment then I realized what it was for. They used to only do it for dead presidents. Now it seems to be a weekly event and instead of shocking people it's making them more willing to bow to Authoritay.


You're right. The day the Dallas shooting occurred, they put the flag at half-staff at the place where I work. It seems the flag is at half-staff every month, if not every other week. At this point, I don't know if it's to render it meaningless or like you said, make the masses "more willing to bow to Authoritay"
'I see clearly that man in this world deceives himself by admiring and esteeming things which are not, and neither sees nor esteems the things which are.' — St. Catherine of Genoa
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Re: A Drone Was Used to Blow Up a US Citizen Without Trial

Postby Iamwhomiam » Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:02 pm

This is an ominous sign of the coming times. It has set a precedent we all must strongly object to.

This rash action by police, to take the life of a citizen by exploding a 1 pound charge of C4 explosive delivered robotically, is exemplary of the poor decisions made by police officers involved in fatal shootings, like that which took the life of Philando Castile.

The had the man cornered, with nowhere to go. To state the police were afraid he might round the column to assault them would be laughable. The police knew he had been severely injured having followed his bloodtrail to where he was cornered in the parking garage.

What's next? Hand grenades? RPGs?

No! This performance by the Dallas Swat Squad should be condemned and not permitted to be repeated. The militarization of our police departments has got to end - Now!

We should prohibit former warriors who had been enrolled in military service from becoming police officers, especially those who have seen action. Let our police departments become the civilian peace officers they were meant to be.

Let's fix the issues of inequality in our society, that haughtily claims all are equal.
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Re: A Drone Was Used to Blow Up a US Citizen Without Trial

Postby 82_28 » Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:04 pm

Well said, Blue. Couldn't agree more.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: A Drone Was Used to Blow Up a US Citizen Without Trial

Postby Karmamatterz » Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:59 pm

Almost all police departments award extra "points" to those going through the training and hiring process if the applicant has served in the U.S. military. This automatically gives the applicant/trainee a leg up. I do believe many federal civil servants get the same benefit. While initially you many think having a soldier is bad, some see benefit. The biggest problem though is that soldiers are trained to kill, some have to become "untrained" in a sense. If none of you have been threatened by thugs, (Hell's Angels are badass muthas, and don't like cameras) mugged, had switchblades or guns shoved in your faces you will think twice about thinking all cops are assholes after you've had that experience. I have, and I was glad as fuck when a cop showed up.

In various aspects of my professional work as well as when I was in college I encountered police on a regular basis. interaction with them was very very common. I have been in a lot of tense and or dangerous situations with cops around. Now and then some were complete assholes. Most often the cops were asses when they had to deal with large crowds and had too much going on to keep track of. They lose their patience etc... Times when I really got my ass chewed is when I got too close to a life threatening scene. I've been in many situs where riot gear was deployed, billy clubs being wielded and people fighting and getting tackled and mayhem. If you fuck with a cop they are generally not going to tolerate it. If you leave them alone and don't act like a dumbass they generally wont' bother you. If they ask you to do something and you don't comply then generally you're ass is in a sling. When I get threatened with arrest I back off. The many marches I've attended not once was it necessary to confront a cop and get myself arrested while marching/chanting/yelling in a "peaceful" manner.

There are some really shitty cops out there, met plenty. Yes indeed there are racist cops. Racism isn't the only consideration when it comes to bad cops. There are laundry lists of shenanigans, favors, protection for organized crime, bribery, corruption and messed up things going on. Some of the detectives are just as bad or worse than patrolman. Detectives have a lot more power and ability to do right and wrong. Even through some cops are bad, I've seen them save lives and help many many people who were injured, shot, beaten etc.... It's a pretty shitty situation to be a cop and have to knock on the door of parents late at night to tell them that their child has been killed in a drunk driving accident. It's just crazy when you see some excellent professional work and then drive 10 miles to another town and it's the keystone cops with corruption and a total disregard for civil rights. Literally, some small town chiefs are just not that familiar with the law and they make themselves look like fools.

I agree with what Iam wrote. Enough is enough. Local law enforcement can be heavily influenced by the citizens. Local cops are not so out of touch like the federal agencies that operate with impunity. Granted in a larger city like Philly or LA it's going to be more work and organizing, but shit can be changed if you get enough people to make it happen. If you do stand up expect to be spied on and treated like shit. It's sorta like a badge of honor though to get an FBI file on yourself for community based actions. The militarization of local law enforcement by the feds is the scariest shit out there. They literally throw money at local and county officials. The town I live in was offered the tech to place cameras on every cop car that would constantly scan the license plate of each vehicle it passed and upload the image instantly to a platform that would track down the vehicle owner. They tried this for a few months as it was free. People in town hated it. I personally talked to the chief and told him it was creepy as hell and way too much big brother. Because a lot of people complained they discontinued the program and sent the equipment back.
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Re: A Drone Was Used to Blow Up a US Citizen Without Trial

Postby slimmouse » Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:29 pm

Thanks for the above enlightening illustration KM, along with the rest of this thread.
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Re: A Drone Was Used to Blow Up a US Citizen Without Trial

Postby NeonLX » Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:34 pm

I've seen the military-"surplus" armored personnel carrier rolling through the streets of our "liberal" burgh. Rather than spooking the shit out of people, the most common reaction seems to be to stop and wave at it. Like it's the fucking ice cream truck or something.
America is a fucked society because there is no room for essential human dignity. Its all about what you have, not who you are.--Joe Hillshoist
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Re: A Drone Was Used to Blow Up a US Citizen Without Trial

Postby Karmamatterz » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:17 pm

I listen to the Thievery Corporation sometimes when I get pissed about big brother and the fear mongering and crazy assed shit that keeps encroaching on our freedom.

Check out this song called Culture of Fear.

https://youtu.be/GWvqkDvv4mE
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Re: A Drone Was Used to Blow Up a US Citizen Without Trial

Postby brekin » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:52 pm

This does/doesn't really bother me, the "drone" angle. I think people are maybe confusing "robot", like an autonomous machine programmed to kill and a remote controlled machine to deliver the bomb? What if they put it on a skateboard and rolled it across the floor? I'm more bothered about the bomb side of things, that can have major unintended effects and just how much C4 does a urban police force have laying around?

5 cops were killed and more surely would have, there were protracted negotiations and the killer seemed ready to go out shooting so the option of a lethal, remote controlled delivery seemed smart and humane. It's not like they didn't have skin already in the game. It is, of course, a scary precedent. The extension being armed aerial and terrestrial drones cruising around urban areas ready to execute suspects with no one on the immediate scene, but someone across the street or town in an office or van asking their chief, "Ok to use lethal force?" Kind of akin to the infamous Badgdad chopper shooting the cameraman (not gunman) video leaked by Manning.

What is more than a little questionable is the plan being devised in 15-20 minutes? It seems police forces are constantly training for such scenarios. This was improvised in the field? I don't know, that sounds fishy.

Dallas (CNN)Dallas Police Chief David Brown gave an order to his SWAT team after a 45-minute gun battle and two hours of negotiating with a sniper targeting police officers.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/12/us/dallas ... index.html

He told them to come up with a creative plan to neutralize the suspect without putting another officer in the line of fire.
In the time it took Chief Brown to get back from updating the public about the ongoing battle, his officers had hatched a plan. It would keep them out of the line of fire and take out the suspect.
"They improvised this whole idea in about 15, 20 minutes -- extraordinary," Chief Brown says.
By the time the chief gave the go ahead, at least two officers had already been killed, and several more gravely wounded. Three more would later die from their injuries.

The sniper was targeting police officers, particularly white officers.
"He was basically lying to us, laughing at us, singing and asking, 'How many did he get?' and saying that 'he wanted to kill more,'" Chief Brown told CNN's Jake Tapper.
Chief Brown made the final call and carried out a plan law enforcement experts say they've never seen done by local officials: Use a robot and a pound of C-4 explosive to take the sniper out.

The fight against military trained sniper

Chief Brown says the robot was used in the building where Johnson was still sniping, intent on continuing to kill.
They'd had the robot for a long while. The Remotec Androx Mark V A-1, manufactured by Northrup Grumman, was purchased by the department in 2008. The robot, which cost $151,000, sustained minor damage to the extension arm and is still functional, the chief says.
Chief Brown says his officers were up against a military trained suspect holed up on the second floor of El Centro Community College building in downtown Dallas.
Eventually the robot was maneuvered behind a "brick wall" with the suspect on the other side, the chief says. The robot was carrying the one pound payload, ready to be detonated.
"A pound of C-4 runs about 20 dollars," if bought in bulk, explosive expert Matt Barnett of Bonetti Explosives told CNN.
Barnett is not in law enforcement, but he's licensed to dispose of unexploded ordinances and has been working with explosive materials since he was a child out in West Texas. He agreed to demonstrate what a pound of C-4 can do when detonated against a wall.
The role of the C-4
Explosive expert Matt Barnett holds a pound of C-4.
Explosive expert Matt Barnett holds a pound of C-4.
The C-4 would likely be placed as close to the wall by the robot as possible for full effect, and quietly moved behind the wall so the sniper wouldn't notice. If the police could do that, they could likely take out their attacker.
"A pound of C-4 is a lot" if its detonated inside a building, Barnett says. "It can do a lot more damage to the human body in an enclosed space than outside in the open air."
"There are two things that'll kill you with explosives," Barnett says. "You have over pressure and fragmentation."
"Fragmentation is the one we worry about most and usually that's the number one killer with explosives," Barnett says. "The fragments becomes like little missiles."
They can go through a human body like "butter," he says.
Over pressure would burst blood vessels and make a person dazed and confused, Barnett explained. They may not appear to be injured at first. But inside they are bleeding out.
Barnett fashions a pound of C-4 into a ball, then a brick shape with his gloved hands and secured in onto a two-by-four to simulate the robotic arm. The C-4 is pushed snug up to the concrete. A charge is placed inside the soft C-4 brick.
CNN is not detailing the other key steps to achieve the desired explosion.
When the blast occurs, it pierces the relatively quiet 100-plus acres in West Texas where the demonstration was conducted. It can be felt from behind a car, and more than a football field away.
Part of the brick wall is pulverized into dust but some of it is still standing.

But there is no doubt that anyone standing behind it would suffer grave injuries or death from the fragments.
Dallas police were hoping their tactic would work against a suspect who had taken so many lives. It did.
The chief faced some criticism for using what is seen by some as war tactic in a civilian setting.
But he was unequivocal when asked whether he would make that choice again.
"This wasn't an ethical dilemma, for me. I'd do it again to save our officers," Brown says.
The robot's role
A Northrop Grumman Remotec brochure details the robot's capabilities.
A Northrop Grumman Remotec brochure details the robot's capabilities.
While detailed specifics were not revealed about many of the robot's movements prior to the explosion in Dallas, some of its capabilities give insight into what officers might have been able to see, hear or do with it.
The 790-pound robot can be mounted with a variety of sensors, cameras, and attachments. Its arm, once fully extended, can lift 60 pounds and the end can grip with 50 pounds of force, according to manufacturer documents.
It is capable of riding over ditches, over rough terrain, climbing stairs and can traverse through openings up to 24 inches wide and obstacles up to 16 inches tall, according to the manufacturer.
The tactical robot has a 26x optical zoom, a 12x digital zoom and two-way communication, enabling it to send back real time status, positioning and images.
Robots are common inside police departments, but generally used to disable explosive devices or disorient and incapacitate suspects that are barricaded.
It generally carries a flashbang, a device that emits a bright light and loud sound. Sometimes these robots are used to place an explosive near a bomb in order to disarm it via explosion.
But there are far more uses for the robot, depending on what accessories you choose to pair it with.
Northrop Grumman Remotect's site details a variety of options of mounts to attach other tools to the robot including:
A modified 12 gauge shotgun, which can also be used as a breaching tool
A gas can dispenser mount
A window breaker
A cable cutter
Drills and saws
Real time x-ray machines
Mounts to combine with L6, L8 37mm or 40mm launcher weapons
While it is unknown if Dallas police specifically possess any of these accessories, or other law enforcement departments in the U.S., the use of the robot and explosives is likely to continue to be a topic of interest and scrutiny.
The Dallas chief says he'd use the robot or other unconventional tactics again in a similar situation.
"I would use any tool necessary to save our officers' lives," Brown says. "And I'm not ashamed to say it."
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I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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Re: A Drone Was Used to Blow Up a US Citizen Without Trial

Postby Iamwhomiam » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:17 pm

Do you feel repeating that story necessary to your argument? I usually appreciate your view on things, brekin, but this heinous act you have the gall to call "humane"?

5 cops were killed and more surely would have, there were protracted negotiations and the killer seemed ready to go out shooting so the option of a lethal, remote controlled delivery seemed smart and humane.


First, it's unlikely he could shoot any more cops as he was wounded and bleeding and trapped, with nowhere to go. I cannot condone the use of any quantity of explosive used against an uncharged and unindicted US citizen, or one guilty of heinous crimes of mass murder. But 1/4th that amount would have knocked him senseless, just as several flashbangs would have.

But these cops in the worst way wanted him dead and they chose the worst way to waste him.

This extermination you call "smart" and "humane."

He would have bled out eventually and lost consciousness. They knew he wasn't going anywhere and the threat to the public had been contained.

edited typo
edited "But these cops..." from "But these in the worst way cops..."
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Re: A Drone Was Used to Blow Up a US Citizen Without Trial

Postby Blue » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:23 pm

But these in the worst way cops wanted him dead and they chose the worst way to waste him.

This extermination you call "smart" and "humane."

He would have bled out eventually and lost consciousness. They knew he wasn't going anywhere and the threat to the public had been contained.


For real. I also hear people saying it was necessary to use a weaponized robot to blow him up because he had planted explosives around the city. How exactly does blowing him up stop those explosives from going off if they even existed?

This combined with the display after the Boston Marathon shows just how ready they are to take any of us out. ANY OF US.
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Re: A Drone Was Used to Blow Up a US Citizen Without Trial

Postby brekin » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:07 pm

Pretty clear the "wait and see" strategy doesn't work with mass shooters. Whether it is death via r.c. delivered explosive or dropping a piano on the "suspect" a.k.a. "active unrepentant mass murderer on the loose" I say it is all on the table. Or perhaps you suggest the more humane route is to hold a town hall meeting and vote whether to ask a judge to issue a warrant for execution that the governor can sign? Sorry, rather have some thumbs on triggers and remote controls instead of in asses when someone is shooting people.
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
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Re: A Drone Was Used to Blow Up a US Citizen Without Trial

Postby stickdog99 » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:11 pm

Image

The "justifications" for this action are all Jack Bauer 24 "you too would torture a terrorist if you thought it would help you disable an atom bomb" bullshit.

But nobody is questioning this action because the guy they blew up was supposedly a cop killer. That alone justifies any response, no matter how illegal or extra-judicial. If the shooter claimed to have planted explosives elsewhere, that was only an even more compelling reason to do everything possible to capture him alive. Who will be the first journalist to mention this undeniable fact?

not that this actually set any precedent
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