After School Satan

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Re: After School Satan

Postby guruilla » Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:49 am

Novem5er wrote:But the After School Satanism program is not about recruiting kids. It's about holding up a mirror to the public school system and saying "religion does not belong on campus". It's about scaring a school district into shutting down all religiously affiliated programs.

I get that, or at least, I get that this is what people are being led to believe about it. Two points: those of us at RI are familiar with countless examples of intelligence agencies creating religious or political fronts for their activities, as well as for memetic/mimetic engineering purposes, so there's no reason to give this movement a free pass simply because it puts its satanic aspect front and center. (That's called glamour magic, & it worked for Savile for four decades).

Secondly, even if the above is what ASS is about, truly, it is going to backfire precisely because you can't simply say "fuck them" about billions of people's beliefs that go back throughout history. This isn't a question of whether believing in hot pepper birth control means it works, it's about how believing in hot pepper birth control means people are going to use hot pepper birth control, regardless. Ditto with child sacrifice, tho honestly, there is every reason to believe that this does work, and without getting metaphysical about it, in psychological terms of giving power/relief to the abusers. As for no one doing this sort of stuff for world peace, I beg to differ. Ever heard of US foreign policy? :moresarcasm

As happens, I just got a response from the satanic temple to the piece at my blog, comment here. It fails to address the debunking of ritual abuse, of course, and any of my other points (except to compliment me on an unspecified "many" of them).

Here's a sample from the piece:

if The Satanic Temple is sincerely using Satanic imagery in this video, and maybe even Satanic principles in their quasi-religion, to show people how silly Evangelicals are and to prove that rationalism conquers all, then I think they have made a leap of faith easily as audacious as belief in the Virgin Birth or the Holy Trinity. The images, words, and beliefs which make up the body of Satanism, old and new, have to have come from somewhere. It doesn’t matter whether it gets called the archetypal realm, the hidden dimensions, or the collective unconscious, whatever this reservoir of human experience actually IS, it’s immeasurably older, deeper, and vaster than the flimsy veneer of scientistic rationalism or secularism that’s being promoted by the Satanic education agenda. So to use these symbols believing they will only resonate with stupid, credulous people is to dismiss practically the entire body of humanity prior to the past few decades as stupid and credulous and beneath serious, scientific-rationalist consideration.

Scientific Rationality Advocates want to shut the lid on humanity’s “superstitious” past, which would include our shared ancestry and a large portion of our unconscious life. Trying to argue this to the SRA-ers maybe futile, however, because I am not sure terms like the past, ancestry, or unconscious life have any meaning to the neoliberal rationalist “set.” Strangely, the ASSC presents Satanism as a kind of politically correct, neoliberalist religion for anyone interested in real progress; and yet Satanism in its pure form is anything but divorced from our primal origins. It celebrates carnal desire and places man among the beasts, albeit, in agreement with the Neoliberal perspective, at the evolutionary apex. What makes this modern neoliberal übermensch so persuaded of hir superiority over the ancestors and other animals? The conviction that scientific rationalism is somehow a less superstitious, faith-based set of beliefs than the beliefs of their ancestors. Which is probably what human beings have always believed, as they struggled to divorce themselves from the past through the assertion of a belief in Jehovah, Christ, Newton, Marx, or “individual freedom,” or whatever was the current “enlightenment” of the time.

This politically correct new form of “secular” Satanism wants to dismiss religious beliefs as atavistic delusions that any thinking person ought to be able to move past once and for all, simply by deciding to do so. This is like telling a lifelong drunk that all he has to do is make up his mind to stop drinking. It’s puerile, and, like dismissing a thousand generations of ancestors as superstitious idiots, it’s the very opposite of an empathic approach to our shared human experience.[3] A person becomes an alcoholic not through rational choice but because of factors in their past that compel them to act self-destructively at an unconscious level. A person adopts a set of beliefs at the same level, if not for the same reason, which means that, at base, all belief is “religious” belief, and that one man’s idea of rationality is always going to be another man’s idea of dementia. Whatever’s being stirred in the unconscious by the imagery in the ASSC video, or by the “barbaric” names of Satan, Lucifer, Beelzebub, and so on, drives people into real forms of behavior that have real consequences, exactly as Christianity does. It is also generally the same sorts of pathological behavior which Satanism Redux seems committed to eradicating though its Unholy Inquisition.
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Re: After School Satan

Postby PufPuf93 » Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:52 am

@cptmarginal

This is a great link!!

http://www.esoteric.msu.edu/VolumeII/Blake.html

I especially liked the discussion of the Baal Shem Tov and the antinomian (including sexual practices) of the various Sabbatian cults.

@guruilla/others

I much prefer the poetry (!!!) and mysticism and art of Blake over that of Crowley. Many ways Crowley catalogued and self-aggrandized while Blake was influenced and original. in his arts.

I can hold the actuality of Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA) simultaneously in my thoughts with that of Satanic panic and False Memory Syndrome and the like.

On a personal level I am almost 100% prone to take personal testimony as of SRA or other abuse as fact somewhat subjective in perception. It is important that those with this sad experience bear witness. Brave as well to face the repercussions as witness.

Those that can be referred to as the purveyors of Satanic Panic or the therapists that have encourage false memories are not saints and without blame but rather others re-victimizing the true victims.

Ritual abuse occurs in some form in just about every human institution and more so in spiritual traditions where some humans prey upon other, vulnerable humans for their own needs.

The various groups mentioned in the link above have high potential (and high actuality) for others to use the teachings or be labeled by opposing groups as Satanic ritual.

Elaine Pagels offers a good discussion in her book The Origin of Satan (mentioned in an earlier post). Here is a nice comment on the book from Amazon:

"Elaine Pagels is an exceptional author and skilled interpreter of Christian history. The "Origin of Satan" is an excellent book for laypeople trying to understand the evolution of one piece of the Christian paradigm, namely the cosmic battle between good and evil, and the vilification of the Jews in the gospels.

The book is organized in three principal sections. The first part dissects the four gospels in the order they were written, and delineates the relationships between the authors, their social context, and their thinking with regard to Satan and all things/people evil. Among the most helpful recognitions in this part of the book is that as the gospels evolved, Pilate and the Romans grew more and more "innocent" (the Christians were trying to make a distinction between themselves and the troublesome dissidents of Palestine), and the Jews grew more and more "responsible" for Jesus' crucifixion, thus "under the influence of Satan." Much of this awareness is found in the recognition that Jews in the Roman Empire were torn between the social elite who were for the most part the priesthood and the wealthy, and the poor fundamentalists who saw the privileges of the empire in opposition to the covenants with God.

The second section of the book describes the growing rift between the pagans of the Roman empire and the growing Christian sect. What is most helpful in this section is comparing the writings of such pagan minds as Celsus and Marcus Arelius with the early writings of Justin, Origen and others. In the Roman Empire, there was no greater virtue than that of "citizenship" in the empire, and the strength of the empire was assured by performing the ritual obligations to the Gods. The Christians saw themselves not as citizens of Rome, but of Heaven, and their rituals ran counter to those of the Pagans. Naturally, this was threatening to the pagan majority, and resulted in the wholesale slaughter of Christians who wouldn't cede to the authority of the Roman pantheon. Satan, of course, was identified with the pagans.

The last section of the book discusses the growing dissent within the early church itself, and the identification of Satan with heretics from within. For me persoanally this was the most engaging part of the book, as it was SO telling in terms of the evolution of the control paradigm so apparent in Western religion to this day. Reading the writings of Tertullian in particular, compared with the gnostic writers of the same time period, is incredibly enlightening!

In spite of the title, this book is in no way "dark." In fact, it shines light in so many dank dark corners of our history that it is truly a bright spot on my bookshelf and in my mind. This is a "Highly Recommend" book!"

https://www.amazon.com/Origin-Satan-Chr ... tan#navbar
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Re: After School Satan

Postby DrEvil » Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:14 pm

Here's another list of fucked up stuff:

Ritual crime in West Africa
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=37483&p=539543&hilit=+nigeria+magic#p539543
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Re: After School Satan

Postby Novem5er » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:15 pm

My personal opinion is that Satanists are stupid. In general, I don't like sarcasm and I don't like mockery, so when an organization seeks to target another organization as a subject of ridicule, I back away from that process, even if I agree with some of the message.

I applaud the After School Satanism effort for trying to get churches out of public schools, but I'd never join the movement myself and nor would I let my child be involved.

I much prefer the Flying Spaghetti Monster. It's basically the same idea, but without the "evil" trappings and all the nasty history. What's more, nobody actually believes in the FSM (much like secular Satanists) but there is also very little chance that ritual abuse has ever actually occurred in His Noodley Name. It's just a joke, but one that HAS successfully alter school curriculum and programs in the past (by making the same argument that the Satanists are making).

That said, I am pro-Satan in pop culture :) We have Hellboy, Constantine, Black Sabbath, and countless other comics, music, and movies that are a little hell-bent (to steal the phrase). I love that fundamentalist Christians can say "omg that's evil!" and say, no, it's a comic book and btw the good guys are fighting AGAINST Mephistopheles.
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Re: After School Satan

Postby DrEvil » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:34 pm

I agree that The Flying Spaghetti Monster would probably be a better way of showing the hypocrisy of the people trying to insert their personal beliefs into schools.

That said, I don't think a kid reared on satanism is any more likely to kill people than a christian is to blow up an abortion clinic. Crazy people come in all denominations.

As for religious crime in India - my "favorite" is the idiot who let a guru kill him because the guru claimed he could bring him back from the dead. He couldn't.
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Re: After School Satan

Postby Novem5er » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:16 pm

DrEvil » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:34 pm wrote:I agree that The Flying Spaghetti Monster would probably be a better way of showing the hypocrisy of the people trying to insert their personal beliefs into schools.

That said, I don't think a kid reared on satanism is any more likely to kill people than a christian is to blow up an abortion clinic. Crazy people come in all denominations.

As for religious crime in India - my "favorite" is the idiot who let a guru kill him because the guru claimed he could bring him back from the dead. He couldn't.


I wholeheartedly agree with what I bolded above. A lot of people here are of the belief that there is an evil supernatural force in the universe that has inspired men to all sorts of dark deeds. I disagree. Mankind can be evil all on its own, or crazy, and when raised in a culture where evil is attributed to an outside factor, then those evil people have an easy scapegoat or a mythology to justify their excesses. I do think that messages are important and good propaganda can influence millions of normally sane people - but it takes a certain mindset to string-up a cat or blow up a clinic (or cafe); and I think some predatory preachers (be they evil cultists, imams, or pastors) can manipulate people that are already on the verge of violence.

If there is a secret Satanic doctrine out there that encourages animal and human abuse, then I'm 100% against that. As others have said, though, nobody would publicly admit to following such a creed, so I doubt we'd ever find any formal organization. Every "Satanist" I've ever met has really been a secularist.
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Re: After School Satan

Postby guruilla » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:07 pm

Novem5er » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:16 pm wrote:A lot of people here are of the belief that there is an evil supernatural force in the universe that has inspired men to all sorts of dark deeds.

You might want to check that assumption & run a survey, if by "here" you mean RI. I don't subscribe to that belief, but I think you believe I do based on a misreading of things I've written. So you may be committing the same error with others.

Unless "evil supernatural force in the universe" includes the unconscious, which these "secularists" you mention seem as hellbent on debunking as they are the immaculate conception.
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Re: After School Satan

Postby Novem5er » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:06 pm

guruilla » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:07 pm wrote:
Novem5er » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:16 pm wrote:A lot of people here are of the belief that there is an evil supernatural force in the universe that has inspired men to all sorts of dark deeds.

You might want to check that assumption & run a survey, if by "here" you mean RI. I don't subscribe to that belief, but I think you believe I do based on a misreading of things I've written. So you may be committing the same error with others.

Unless "evil supernatural force in the universe" includes the unconscious, which these "secularists" you mention seem as hellbent on debunking as they are the immaculate conception.


I've misunderstood you, then. No worries. I'm not sure how secularists debunk the subconscious (unconscious?). That's a large part of psychology, which is a secular study, if not entirely a hard scientific one.

I'll be honest, it could just be the lack of context in text-based communication; but some of your posts towards me seem a little on the passive-aggressive side. Did I do something to offend you (or anyone)? I've basically said that every modern reference to Satan that I've come across has been nothing more than a tongue-in-cheek middle finger to organized religion.

High school was filled with friends who wore black, drew pentagrams to scare their teachers, and who listened to Slayer and White Zombie. Most of them have grown up to be normal adults . . . no child sacrifices that I'm aware of.
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Re: After School Satan

Postby guruilla » Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:41 pm

Novem5er » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:06 pm wrote:High school was filled with friends who wore black, drew pentagrams to scare their teachers, and who listened to Slayer and White Zombie. Most of them have grown up to be normal adults . . . no child sacrifices that I'm aware of.

See, here's the thing: while you may well be correct in your estimation about these people you've personally encountered, the comment "no child sacrifices that I'm aware of" is kind of asinine, because, as you acknowledge elsewhere, when child sacrifices do happen, we are generally not aware of them.

So there's a disconnect between what you know, if you read RI at all, about the reality of ritual abuse, etc, and what you believe about how Satan is just a way for disenfranchised kids to thumb their noses at organized religion and rationalist secularists to have a laugh, etc, etc. It's compartmentalization of awareness, similar to how people are getting all worked up over the latest US presidential election despite having seen all the evidence they should ever need that the US political system runs according to 100% nondemocratic principles. It's this disconnect that I'm impatient with, not you personally coz I don't know you, personally.

Everything in life exists as part of a larger spectrum and that includes Satan and satanism. The fact that much of satanic imagery is being sold to and used by kids to fuel their impotent revolt against organized religion and bad parenting in no way divorces it from its archetypal roots or from the larger deeper social context of satanic (or "satanic") abuses of power, etc etc.

I had my own impotent Luciferian rebel phase too (it lasted on into my late 30s), & I have the tattoos to prove it. & while I never sacrificed a child, I did do some pretty destructive stuff both to self & others (tho mainly to self), and it's pretty clear to me that I was culture-suckered all the way.

I put it better over at the blog: Satan is an archetype, not a toy mask to play with. You can’t just put it on for a lark and then expect it to come off again without leaving scars.

It's one thing to say you don't believe in supernatural forces; but if you acknowledge the reality of the unconscious then you have to acknowledge that there are aspects of that greater psyche that act as mechanisms within it (whether we call them archetypes or not), that have power to sway us because that is what they are: powers that sway us.

As for these normal adults you speak of, wtf? Do you think the sociopaths who walk among us carry pitchforks and wear tails? There's that disconnect again. Everybody does it, because we have no choice but to do it. Society has been designed by skillful predators to make it easy for us to prey on. What else would we expect them to do? Fortunately we have something call logic to lean on. Most of our beliefs don't hold up to a close examination by logic; you are focusing on the low-hanging fruit of organized religion. I'm suggesting you, or whoever, turn the microscope around and look at your own assumptions about groovy pop culture, secular Satanism, and all these "normal adults" you know.
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Re: After School Satan

Postby Novem5er » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:01 pm

I appreciate your post and I'm glad we have no personal beef.

And you're right that none of us know 100% what goes on behind closed doors, even with people we grew up with (maybe especially them!). I think that's a given, but what I'm saying is that just because a teenager drew pentagrams and listened to Slayer, in no way makes them any more likely to be a abusive sociopath than the football player who listened to Boys II Men or Nickleback.

My teenage years were spent in the South, Central Florida to be exact, and we were surrounded by the Moral Majority of the 1990s. If anyone was being ritually abused at home, it was likely the uptight Christian teen with his shirt tucked in and the stick up his ass, who walked around hallways preaching and bullying anyone for not conforming. Hell, if there was anyone in school that was more likely to BECOME a ritual abuser, it'd be that same kid who tried to instill his fascist religion across society. Their ideology was not about love and Christ, it was about conformity and control, and rebels were to be bullied.

But I get what you are saying. There is a difference between the kid drawing pentagrams to piss off his mom and the person who actually gets into it.

I will concede a point to you. I had some good friends who got into the darker side of the occult in the years after high school. They weren't Satanists, per say, but into some dark stuff. It started out as Wiccan, but then went into a vampire fetish, blood magic, Crowley, and other shit. Drugs became involved. Law enforcement became involved. At one point, this group had a vendetta against some local cops and, on their word, did some sort of ritual to curse them.

Within three weeks, a small aircraft carrying three police officers crashed at the local airfield, killing all officers on board.

I never believed they had any magickal ability. I still don't. It was pure coincidence (probably). However, it didn't matter - I didn't like these people. They were friends, but their entire demeanor was dark and angry. Their personalities were ugly. The guys all ended up in jail after awhile, while the women got pregnant and have been struggling with poverty ever since.

There are cults. There is abuse. There are sociopaths. I just don't think there is a dark power, or even a cultural meme, that draws people to darkness. I think people have a darkness inside of them and they gravitate towards violent and negative behaviors, and some justify it through religion.

My question to you is this: do you believe there is actual danger to drawing an inverted pentragram? Or maybe listening to a rock song where the Devil is cast in a positive light?
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Re: After School Satan

Postby Harvey » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:49 pm

Pele'sDaughter » Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:56 pm wrote:
Last month, in a village near Barha, a woman hacked her neighbour's three-year-old to death after a tantrik promised unlimited riches.


The root cause is a belief in lies facilitated by selfishness. These are people so desperate for their own desires to be fulfilled (whether for riches or sick child/wife/husband, etc.) that they gladly (probably gleefully in some cases) cause suffering and death to another human as an offset/sacrifice to make it happen. You notice they never do it for world peace or some general cause that would benefit others and not their immediate family. Utter depravity.


I went through a period where I could not (quite literally) believe what I was seeing. I had to begin to believe that I was inhabiting a play, I was a bit player in my own life, what was happening around me was a gentle and concerned plea for my attention and nothing more, the other 'players' were not really being harmed, they too were actors, going home at the end of the play unharmed, not as brutalised and as dead as they seemed to be.

I've wondered before (here) if the TPTB do not also adopt a similar survival strategy, their deep and sustaining, private, interior space being a fantasy in which the people they cause to be destroyed are only pretending, they don't really die, it's all a game. Nothing is destroyed, not really. Somehow they acquire and loot and purloin and the people they do this to are magically made whole again somewhere else, no harm done. Everyone wins, it's all good. If that were so, it would explain a lot. But whence does this fiction arise?

Why it's a part of the culture. It's the story we see time and again. It's Hollywood.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


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Re: After School Satan

Postby backtoiam » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:44 pm

Harvey right now the sun rises and sets on Palestine, the country that never "really existed" after all.

That is the future, because everybody is an "other.'
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Re: After School Satan

Postby 82_28 » Tue Aug 09, 2016 5:22 am

When I was a wee tike, my "first date" was with this girl that my dad drove me to go meet. She was attracted to me because I was hella "new wave". I was wearing some Skinny Puppy shirt or some shit at some chaperoned party. I had teased bangs and shit. I liked her because she was "goth" or something. Anyway, I meet her at this mall and she says let's go outside for a smoke. I say OK. And we're on this little hillside by like the loading docks and she says "I want you to get nasty". I told her no and was really intimidated.

Well a day or two go by and she calls me and says that she has summoned demons through some satanic ritual that will rise from the core of the Earth to kill me by the age of 20. Scared the living fuck out of me at the time. So I go to church and tell the associate youth pastor about this and she says we need to pray. So we pray. Actually 'nuff said.

But depending on what you know or believe satanism is quite real at a young age. Luckily I was able to tell somewhat at a young age but it definitely scared me -- I was counting down the days and shit. And this 13-14 year old girl didn't get it somehow out of the vacuum. It came from somewhere. Got no idea where but I would bet she's either dead or some accountant now.
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Re: After School Satan

Postby divideandconquer » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:28 am

82_28 » Tue Aug 09, 2016 5:22 am wrote:When I was a wee tike, my "first date" was with this girl that my dad drove me to go meet. She was attracted to me because I was hella "new wave". I was wearing some Skinny Puppy shirt or some shit at some chaperoned party. I had teased bangs and shit. I liked her because she was "goth" or something. Anyway, I meet her at this mall and she says let's go outside for a smoke. I say OK. And we're on this little hillside by like the loading docks and she says "I want you to get nasty". I told her no and was really intimidated.

Well a day or two go by and she calls me and says that she has summoned demons through some satanic ritual that will rise from the core of the Earth to kill me by the age of 20. Scared the living fuck out of me at the time. So I go to church and tell the associate youth pastor about this and she says we need to pray. So we pray. Actually 'nuff said.

But depending on what you know or believe satanism is quite real at a young age. Luckily I was able to tell somewhat at a young age but it definitely scared me -- I was counting down the days and shit. And this 13-14 year old girl didn't get it somehow out of the vacuum. It came from somewhere. Got no idea where but I would bet she's either dead or some accountant now.


Did she resemble Hillary? Or dare I say it, Donald? If so, perhaps she's perched on bat-like wings, chomping at the bit to run in 2020 and take her place as lead or vice-lead puppet in the Ninth Circle of Hell.
'I see clearly that man in this world deceives himself by admiring and esteeming things which are not, and neither sees nor esteems the things which are.' — St. Catherine of Genoa
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Re: After School Satan

Postby Novem5er » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:49 am

82_28 that's a funny story (now), but I'm sure it was very traumatic at the time. I'd be very interested to find out what happened to that girl. Your last line that she is either dead or an accountant is probably right on the head. If she managed to live and stay out of prison, she probably has 2.4 children and a job in social work.

My wife grew up in a very religious family, although she got away from it herself when she left the house. Still, through them I discovered a whole world of continued Satanic Panic that is still growing strong in some communities. Some churches still don't celebrate Halloween because of its Pagan (Satanic) origin and rituals. A lot of them still wont let kids play Dungeons & Dragons or listen to rock music. There is one famous church lady who was a "real life" witch for decades and practiced all sorts of black magic, but who converted to Christianity and now makes it her mission to warn others against the occult.

My response to her family was always "but you know none of that stuff is real, right?"

But I suppose it is "real" as long as people really believe in it. I don't know what kind of psychological problems a person needs to have to get involved in a witch's coven and actually sacrifice animals and such, but then, I don't know what kind of psychological problems a person needs to join a church that outlaws Halloween, either.

I guess my final say on this subject (hah!) is that there's nothing wrong with Satan or the occult, as long as a person doesn't actually believe in it :)
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