TRUMP is seriously dangerous

[FourthBase]

I usually think that the way it works is they don't really give a shit who gets elected. Pretty sure that neither Trump or Sanders were supposed to happen. Sanders was obviously the most dangerous of them all. Trump was the freak who stole the whole show, like a bully who was over tolerated and ended up taking over the school and now the school is trying to figure out how to get rid of him, but the problem is he has all these followers who have been swayed by his cock-strutting ways. That the Kochs have not bought into his bullshit does not mean to me he is the anti-Koch candidate. They simply see him as a bad investment and not a libertarian guy at all, quite the opposite. If what they say is true that DT basically offered the presidency in practice to John Kasich as vp (who could probably deliver Ohio) and all DT would worry about is "Making America Great Again" then this is not lost on the power people. Mike Pence is not one of them, so.... the question then becomes who would actually run the production while DT is dancing on the stage? Good, you say, fuck them. To hell with those bastards. But the problem is, who Trumpollini would pick to run the show. And that is where the power people are getting fidgety, that is why gopers are bleeding way. The natural conclusion of the revolution in Teabaggerstan is coming to a head. And the irony will probably be that in doing so they have guaranteed the election of the one figure they might actually hate more than Obama. Donald Trump is not a revolutionary visionary any more than HIllary Clinton is an honest politician. He does not understand the Constitution, politics, government, or anything else that is not happening at the lectern. All he cares about is ratings. Down double digits in the polls? Fuck it. Say your ahead and talk about the huge crowd and how you give much longer speeches than the opposition. Say she is ISIS, say she is Hitler, say she is freaking Son of Sam. Say Anything meets Being There meets Nightmare on Elm St. It could not possibly be more screwed up than it is, unless of course, Trump gets elected. That would be a much more massive shock than Brexit. In my flitatious days with collapsarianism I would have been all for The Donald. Enough of this bullshit. Let whatever infected fascistic maggot swim upstream from the bowels of the corporate beast come in whatever form to bring about the final collapse of this empire, this murderous enterprise. But I don't feel that way anymore. Sadly I feel that DT is being used. He is, other than maybe Ben Carson & Huckabee & Fiorina, about the only republican HRC could actually beat. I think the power people were more worried about Bernie. Nobody took DT seriously, not even DT who is probably so over leveraged that he can't afford to be elected. He is the Brand, not what a president can be. Quite certain he couldn't give less of a shit about the "little guy" than Clinton (she at least through pretending she does has done some good if only by accident). Donald can't pretend. No matter how hard he tries. People mistake this for some kind of genuine strength of character. I think back to the David Rockerfeller visit to Reagan story - to explain to him how things really work. Not sure anyone imagines having that conversation with "the world's greatest negotiator". It's not going to happen. He is happening at this point and he is being used for something and Mr. Jones does not know what it is, but my guess is it does not include war with Iran which is my deepest suspicion of what this is all about. Not whether we have one, but what kind.

Either way, Hillary or Trump, we get war with Iran?

[Nordic]

If you're gonna suggest that being pro-Trump is potentially grounds for banishment per the antifascist bylaws, then surely you're going to suggest the same for Hillary support, too? How could you possibly not?

I finally wholeheartedly agree with you about something!

[JackRiddler]

If you're gonna suggest that being pro-Trump is potentially grounds for banishment per the antifascist bylaws

I didn't suggest, I wondered if the rules allowed. Only the Absent God-Jeff knows, and he will remain Absent, as gods tend to be. Just trying to open the way for Orange Cooper to stop pretending and be himself. Obviously some people support Trump and they are an important corrective to those of us who might underestimate their numbers and stupidity.

As for all of the above (since my last post), which I have read with interest, I shall say in double bold:

The Consul Abides!

Otherwise, puf, search for past posts on this board about kayfabe. I think there's a lot more to it as a clarifying concept than the simple wikipedia definition. Always be fake should have the stress on the BE. Fake becomes indistinguishable from real. It is closely related to the idea of confusionism.

.

[JackRiddler]

Go, man, go! This is what Internet once was, no paragraphs, all power:

I usually think that the way it works is they don't really give a shit who gets elected. Pretty sure that neither Trump or Sanders were supposed to happen. Sanders was obviously the most dangerous of them all. Trump was the freak who stole the whole show, like a bully who was over tolerated and ended up taking over the school and now the school is trying to figure out how to get rid of him, but the problem is he has all these followers who have been swayed by his cock-strutting ways. That the Kochs have not bought into his bullshit does not mean to me he is the anti-Koch candidate. They simply see him as a bad investment and not a libertarian guy at all, quite the opposite. If what they say is true that DT basically offered the presidency in practice to John Kasich as vp (who could probably deliver Ohio) and all DT would worry about is "Making America Great Again" then this is not lost on the power people. Mike Pence is not one of them, so.... the question then becomes who would actually run the production while DT is dancing on the stage? Good, you say, fuck them. To hell with those bastards. But the problem is, who Trumpollini would pick to run the show. And that is where the power people are getting fidgety, that is why gopers are bleeding way. The natural conclusion of the revolution in Teabaggerstan is coming to a head. And the irony will probably be that in doing so they have guaranteed the election of the one figure they might actually hate more than Obama. Donald Trump is not a revolutionary visionary any more than HIllary Clinton is an honest politician. He does not understand the Constitution, politics, government, or anything else that is not happening at the lectern. All he cares about is ratings. Down double digits in the polls? Fuck it. Say your ahead and talk about the huge crowd and how you give much longer speeches than the opposition. Say she is ISIS, say she is Hitler, say she is freaking Son of Sam. Say Anything meets Being There meets Nightmare on Elm St. It could not possibly be more screwed up than it is, unless of course, Trump gets elected. That would be a much more massive shock than Brexit. In my flitatious days with collapsarianism I would have been all for The Donald. Enough of this bullshit. Let whatever infected fascistic maggot swim upstream from the bowels of the corporate beast come in whatever form to bring about the final collapse of this empire, this murderous enterprise. But I don't feel that way anymore. Sadly I feel that DT is being used. He is, other than maybe Ben Carson & Huckabee & Fiorina, about the only republican HRC could actually beat. I think the power people were more worried about Bernie. Nobody took DT seriously, not even DT who is probably so over leveraged that he can't afford to be elected. He is the Brand, not what a president can be. Quite certain he couldn't give less of a shit about the "little guy" than Clinton (she at least through pretending she does has done some good if only by accident). Donald can't pretend. No matter how hard he tries. People mistake this for some kind of genuine strength of character. I think back to the David Rockerfeller visit to Reagan story - to explain to him how things really work. Not sure anyone imagines having that conversation with "the world's greatest negotiator". It's not going to happen. He is happening at this point and he is being used for something and Mr. Jones does not know what it is, but my guess is it does not include war with Iran which is my deepest suspicion of what this is all about. Not whether we have one, but what kind.

[RocketMan]

If you're gonna suggest that being pro-Trump is potentially grounds for banishment per the antifascist bylaws

I didn't suggest, I wondered if the rules allowed. Only the Absent God-Jeff knows, and he will remain Absent, as gods tend to be. Just trying to open the way for Orange Cooper to stop pretending and be himself. Obviously some people support Trump and they are an important corrective to those of us who might underestimate their numbers and stupidity.

As for all of the above (since my last post), which I have read with interest, I shall say in double bold:

The Consul Abides!

Otherwise, puf, search for past posts on this board about kayfabe. I think there's a lot more to it as a clarifying concept than the simple wikipedia definition. Always be fake should have the stress on the BE. Fake becomes indistinguishable from real. It is closely related to the idea of confusionism.

.

Yea, but the real question is, what is he consul of and which entity does he represent.

[stefano]

I don't think there will be war with Iran, let alone Russia. Iraq-Afghanistan was the American Empire's Boer War - it decisively turned domestic opinion against imperialism (even more than before - public opinion had been mostly against invading Iraq), and the recent nuclear deal negotiations have taken off a lot of pressure. The Iranians look prepared to make some concessions on privatising energy and industrial interests, which was the imperialists' main concern, as it always is. As for Russia, I can't see them actually attacking a NATO member state, which is the closest thing we would have to the cascading declarations of war in 1914. If there is a President Trump he might launch some bullshit phony war like Granada, but if he tried anything serious I think the military establishment would make some things plain to him. The power of the US president tends to be overstated, if you ask me ('Leader of the Free World'!).

I'm thinking Eritrea: it's small, strategic, and there are real issues with the regime that could fairly easily be spun into a casus belli, should one be needed.

[mentalgongfu2]

FWIW, this Radiolab story does a good job of explaining kayfabe.

It also happens to be an essential moment in pro wrestling history not least because it is when kayfabe was broken irreparably, and professional wrestling as an entertainment form has never recovered.

Kayfabe is maintaining the illusion always, at any cost. Good vs bad, hero vs villain, and the entire idea that the fight is real and disguising that both participants are working for the same company, the same owner. It goes deeper, but if you want to know more you can listen to the story; I don't want to get deeper into the history and philosophy of pro wrestling at this moment, though I do believe it is very instructive vis a vis modern American politics.

http://www.radiolab.org/story/montreal-screwjob/

When you think of professional wrestling, you probably picture cartoonish characters like Hulk Hogan and Macho Man Randy Savage. But after the Montreal screwjob, the real world lurked just beneath the scripted spectacle of professional wrestling. Simon Adler tells the story of one moment that tore a hole in the fiction of wrestling.

[JackRiddler]

I don't think there will be war with Iran, let alone Russia. Iraq-Afghanistan was the American Empire's Boer War - it decisively turned domestic opinion against imperialism (even more than before - public opinion had been mostly against invading Iraq), and the recent nuclear deal negotiations have taken off a lot of pressure. The Iranians look prepared to make some concessions on privatising energy and industrial interests, which was the imperialists' main concern, as it always is. As for Russia, I can't see them actually attacking a NATO member state, which is the closest thing we would have to the cascading declarations of war in 1914. If there is a President Trump he might launch some bullshit phony war like Granada, but if he tried anything serious I think the military establishment would make some things plain to him. The power of the US president tends to be overstated, if you ask me ('Leader of the Free World'!).

I'm thinking Eritrea: it's small, strategic, and there are real issues with the regime that could fairly easily be spun into a casus belli, should one be needed.

Very reasonable. But you're talking about likelihoods. Escalating bellicose theatrics and rhetoric are usually accompanied by arms races, build-ups, forward deployments, wargames and provocations. This can spin out of control, or causing a sudden fracture due to some idiotic happenstance. It would have been equally reasonable in the 1946-91 period to explain why there would not be a direct nuclear exchange between the US and USSR blocs. In the end, you could have said, there we go, my explanation has been confirmed. Yet a flock of geese or a radar malfunction could have brought the conflagration, and afterward the survivors wouldn't even have known how it happened, or cared. Realpolitik is more than stupid in an age when a war can start within seconds by accident. And what a waste of people and resources even if it doesn't happen.

[Luther Blissett]

I know it's almost lost to history at this point (wild for an event so recent), but what happened during Trump's 2012 bid? I can still remember the republican debates, but I can't remember Trump's performance other than a sense that it was much more subdued and yet still played the part of the cartoon sideshow in that run. How did the media treat him? How did we?

"Make America Great Again" is nothing new. I can almost remember one of the 2012 republican challengers using the phrase (maybe even Romney, why not right?). Barely anyone was as buzzed up about that philosophy back then, but Trump really did spin that mantle into something else this turn.

[seemslikeadream]

Trump: Trying to Make America Male Again:
Gender war: Trump's rise is the direct reaction to the growing influence of women in politics.

In reversal, Trump says IS claim about Obama was sarcastic


oh just shut the fuck up

this is how sociopaths cover they're asses


Is a Crook Hiding in Donald Trump’s Taxes?

An Open Letter to Ivanka Trump from Michael Moore: 'Your Dad Is Not Well'
It's time for an intervention.
By Michael Moore / AlterNet August 10, 2016


Dear Ivanka:

I’m writing to you because your dad is not well.

Every day he continues his spiral downward—and after his call for gun owners to commit acts of violence against Mrs. Clinton, it is clear he needs help, serious help. His comments and behavior have become more and more bizarre and detached from reality. He is in need of an intervention. And I believe only you can conduct it.

He trusts you. He believes in you. Although I don’t know you personally, you seem to be a very smart and together woman. I think he will listen to you. He must because he is now not simply a danger to himself, he has put the next president of the United States in harm's way. He has encouraged and given permission to the unhinged and the deranged to essentially assassinate Hillary Clinton. Her life is now in worse danger than it already was—and should anything happen, that will not only be on his head but also on those closest to him if they stand by and do nothing.

I say this with the utmost kindness, care and concern for you, and I know you will do the right thing. Bring him in, off the road, away from the crowds. Now. Tonight.

And when you do, here is what a good friend of mine, a former counselor and social worker, Jeff Gibbs, suggests that you say to him:

Dad, we need to have a chat. Are you feeling okay? Do you have a minute? Please sit down. Because this isn’t going to be easy. No, I am not pregnant. No, what is going on is… is… I am really, really worried about my father. About you.

Dad, I owe everything to you. You’ve built an empire, a brand and a business for the ages. You have taken care of me, inspired me and, through your example, have made me who I am: a self-confident, honest-to-a-flaw, woman.

But Dad, I am deeply worried. You haven’t been yourself lately. The father I know is not a hater, not someone who encourages violence. Dad, you used to be A LIBERAL. You raised me as a liberal! The Clintons were your friends—Chelsea is one of my best friends! And now you’re joking that Hillary should be assassinated? Really?

Dad, I hate to say this, but you’re making me scared, you’re making my friends scared, and you’re scaring the whole country.

Dad… Dad, sit down! They’ll wait. I am not finished. Don’t get angry. Try to listen.

Yes, I know they love it, the crowd goes wild. But not for YOU. They don’t love YOU. They love the show that you put on. But people who hunger for red meat will turn on you in a minute. No, they don’t love you. I love you. I will always love you. And I see you hurting yourself—and you’re hurting ME, Dad.

Don’t get upset! You’re still the handsomest billionaire I know. I will always love you. Melania will always love you. Vladimir will always love you… OK, maybe that wasn’t funny. But you get my point. This running for president thing is destroying the dad I have known and loved. And honestly, you and I both know you didn’t really want this job to begin with! You just wanted to make a point. OK, well, POINT MADE! You did it! Now, let’s stop and get some help.

I am asking you, right now, to give it up. To leave the race. Let that nice man from Indiana run things. Your place in history is secure. You need to withdraw. Move on, for your sake, for the country’s sake, for my sake.

The man who raised me was the man who, for no charge, built a huge ice rink in Central Park for all the people to use! You struck deals with some of the biggest assholes on the planet in finance and politics and yet remained friends, mostly. You built a family that loves you. I want that dad back! And I worry that, if you don’t stop now, neither you nor the country will ever recover.

There, there, Dad, it’s okay, let it out. Let it out, because I know beneath that gruff, tough, handsome exterior is a little boy who just never got enough love. And that little boy needs some time to find himself again.

Let’s you and I walk out there right now. The cameras are all set up and waiting. You can make up whatever excuse you want. You can blame whomever you want. You’re good at that! I just know this can’t go on, and you know it, too.

Take my hand, let’s end this. And by tomorrow you and I will be sipping martinis on our yacht in the Hamptons with Chelsea and the friends we still have left. I love you, Dad. Let’s do this. That’s right, take my hand, here we go…

Ivanka, I have faith in you that you can do this. I know I’ve called your dad crazy before, but I was speaking politically, not clinically. This has gone beyond crazy. The entire nation—in fact, the entire world—needs you to step forward and do the courageous thing history will praise you for: the loving act of a brilliant daughter who also loved her beleaguered country enough to say her father wasn’t well and needed help.

Thank you, Ivanka.

Yours,
Michael Moore

John Fugelsang ‏@JohnFugelsang 1h1 hour ago
John Fugelsang Retweeted Donald J. Trump
When you realize that voters don't enjoy being lied to like your wives all did.

John Fugelsang ‏@JohnFugelsang 18h18 hours ago
Donald Trump thought he was running for America's president but wound up becoming America's IQ test.

John Fugelsang ‏@JohnFugelsang 23h23 hours ago
"That guy who keeps bombing ISIS is the founder of ISIS," says orange-faced recruitment ad for ISIS.

[JackRiddler]

Kayfabe thread (five years ago!!! aaaaaa)

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=32175

[IanEye]

even before my father's father
they called us all rebels
they burned down our cornfields - left our cities leveled



i still feel the eyes of those blue bellied devils
when i'm walkin' round at night
through the concrete and metal

A Brief Note About Donald Trump and "You Can't Always Get What You Want"

Every Donald Trump rally ends with songs about fucking (Free's "All Right Now") and other seemingly un-presidential topics. But the oddest choice may very well be the Rolling Stones' "You Can't Always Get What You Want." A generous reading is that Trump sees himself as "what you need" that you might find you get if you try sometimes. Or maybe he just likes the song and doesn't give two shits about what it means.

For some of us, the song has an association with the film The Big Chill, about aging children of the 1960s facing growing up and edging into middle-age in the anxious, conservative 1980s. "You Can't Always Get What You Want" plays early on, when the characters, a group of friends, are driving to a cemetery to bury one of their own who committed suicide, a melancholy soundtrack to a melancholy moment in a generally melancholy movie.

What makes "You Can't..." such a genuinely weird choice to play at a political event, beyond that it's hardly got a pump-you-up intensity, is that it's about giving up on unrealistic hopes and expectations, facing the end of the revolutionary dreams of the 1960s (something the Stones themselves would put the punctuation mark at the end of the sentence at Altamont in December 1969), and settling for what life hands you. In other words, you could kindly say that it's about accepting reality above illusions, or you could less kindly say that it's about the failure to bring about utopian freedom in the 1960s and what bullshit that pursuit had become. Hell, it's the last song on the Stones' last album of the decade, Let It Bleed.

As Greil Marcus put it in his original review of the album for Rolling Stone, "This era and the collapse of its bright and flimsy liberation are what the Stones leave behind with the last song of Let It Bleed. The dreams of having it all are gone, and the album ends with a song about compromises with what you want — learning to take what you can get, because the rules have changed with the death of the Sixties. Back a few years, all of London's new lower-class middle-class aristocracy were out for just what they wanted and they damned well got it. But no one can live off a memory that vanished sense of mastery felt in, when was it, '65, '66? If 'Gimmie Shelter' is the Stones' song of terror, 'You Can't Always Get What You Want' looks for satisfaction in resignation." (Marcus wrote recently about songs around the Trump campaign.)

Maybe you could argue that the song itself has a Republican tilt, what with its admission that the 1960s party was over and, fuck you, hippies, welcome to the 1970s, which begins with Nixon and ends with the rise of Reagan. But it's sad and hilarious and sadly hilarious and hilariously sad watching obese white people dance when Mick Jaggar is singing,

I went down to the Chelsea drugstore
to get your prescription filled
I was standing in line with Mr. Jimmy
and man, did he look pretty ill.
We decided that we would have a soda
my favorite flavor’s cherry red
I sang my song to Mr. Jimmy
and he said one word to me and that was "death."

Although, you know, to be fair, when one goes to a Trump rally, one does get their "fair share of abuse." And, to be fair, it's rich fucks like Trump who helped put a stake in the heart of the 60s.

Maybe the best way to go here is a meta-interpretation. As we have come to learn, words are meaningless to Trump. When he was asked by lipless cretin Hugh Hewitt about calling President Obama the "founder of ISIS," Trump asked Hewitt if he liked it. What mattered to Trump was that "Everyone’s liking it. I think they’re liking it."

So fuck meaning. Fuck truth. Fuck words. What matters is if people like something. People like "You Can't Always Get What You Want," so fuck that it's actually saying,
"Your revolution is over." It sounds good.


.

grabbed hold of your coat tail but it come off in my hand
i reached for your lapel but it weren't sewn on so grand
begged & promised anything if only you would stay
well, I lost a lot of love over you...

.

[seemslikeadream]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdEQkRq_xrw


You tell me there's an angel in your tree
Did he say he'd come to call on me
For things are getting desperate in our home
Living in the parish of the restless folks I know


Behind four walls of stone the rich man sleeps
It's time we put the flame torch to their keep


Watch the black smoke fly to heaven
See the red flame light the sky

Burn down the mission
Burn it down to stay alive
It's our only chance of living
Take all you need to live inside

Deep in the woods the squirrels are out today

[Belligerent Savant]

.
Michael Moore is a bright fellow, which tells me he either suffers from willful/arrogant blindness or he's another complicit stooge.

Yes, TRUMP and all his egregious flaws are there for anyone with eyes to see. We have myriad exhibits within this thread that speak to his character as a human/presidential candidate. But as demonstrated here and on other threads, the candidate on the (illusory) "other side of the aisle" offers little, if any, relief. The public LOSES with either option (lesser is some ways with one, more in other ways with the other, and vice-versa).

Neither are acceptable options worth clamoring for in any interpretation of reality (unless the clamoring are calls for indictments...).

In short:

F 'em BOTH, and F#CK anyone that claims otherwise.

[82_28]

I found the MM letter to be unfortunate. At first I was like sweet, because I actually really do like the guy. But then I was all yeah, that's not going to go over well. End of the day Moore gotta be Moore, I guess.