Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism’s War on Europe

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism’s War on Europe

Postby American Dream » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:33 am

Yes, so much hateful/misguided/racialized right wing shit.



JackRiddler » Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:35 pm wrote:.

The thread title and its compact rendering of a set of totally fucked-up premises really makes me want to leave the board every time I see it.

The first premise is that there is a specifically European "refugee crisis," although those trying to cross into Europe constitute a small proportion of all those fleeing conflict and disaster zones worldwide, as Stefano's post above shows; and of course although Europe is more thoroughly equipped to handle this flow than almost any other place; even as literally millions are being hosted in Turkey, Lebanon, Somalia, and within Colombia, to name a few; and although Syria itself, a country of fewer than 20 million, hosted up to four million during the height of the US-UK destruction of Iraq (and of course this actually did contribute to destabilizing Syria).

The second premise, also given as self-evident in the title, is that this flow of people seeking to enter Europe constitutes a war, as opposed to the actual wars from which the refugees are fleeing, in which several European states have their own hand.

Third, that this constitutes a war on "Europe" as such. Fourth, that it is a war with a planned intent of "engineering" some kind of evil social transformation of this "Europe." Fifth, of course, that "Zionism" is the automatic go-to background of said plot, and provides the masterminds, and the only masterminds worth mentioning. And now the sixth premise, not in the thread title but stated above by our own odious parel, the Eternal Rothschild twist -- because there are no other rich influential people or other factors of any kind worth highlighting.

I just dropped in here for the first time, but I assume this has been going on for the whole 29 pages?

.
"If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything."
-Malcolm X
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism’s War on Europe

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:55 am

hateful/misguided/racialized right wing shit
...coming from Dissident Voice? ...not Fox News

excuse me ..I didn't realized Dissident Voice was into rightwing shit ...or were you commenting on Jack's quote :P

Gearóid Ó Colmáin is a journalist and political analyst based in Paris. His work focuses on globalization, geopolitics and class struggle. He is a regular contributor to Dissident Voice, Global Research, Russia Today International, Press TV, Sputnik Radio France, Sputnik English, Al Etijah TV, Sahar TV, and has also appeared on Al Jazeera and Al Mayadeen. He writes in English, Gaelic, and French.


Dissident Voice is an internet newsletter dedicated to challenging the distortions and lies of the corporate press and the privileged classes it serves. The goal of Dissident Voice is to provide hard hitting, thought provoking and even entertaining news and commentaries on politics and culture that can serve as ammunition in struggles for peace and social justice.

Dissident Voice was founded by Santa Rosa, CA based writer, musician and activist Sunil K. Sharma in 2001. He did his undergraduate work in Music at Sonoma State University. He is formerly a researcher with the media watchdog group Project Censored, and is co-author of The Current Plight of the Kosovo Roma, a groundbreaking survey based on the field research and compiled reports of historian Paul Polansky, published by Voice of Roma in Graton, CA. His articles have appeared in Z Magazine, CounterPunch, Yellow Times, Palestine Chronicle, and Left Turn among others. He has also contributed essays to the book Left Out! How Liberals Helped Reelect George W. Bush by Joshua Frank. Sunil retired from Dissident Voice in 2010.



and Jack's umteenth reason for leaving this board...what excuse shall I accept as true?

and of course Jack is commenting on 11 articles he has never taken the time to read..how generous

commenting on a comment about the 11 articles is soooo much easier and intellectually achieved without great effort..... presenting few difficulties....uncomplicated, undemanding, unchallenging, effortless, painless, trouble-free, facile, simple, straightforward, elementary :)

let's all remember who is responsible for 9/11 and it's aftermath .........just for one moment please..I know it's been 15 years and memories grow short and we have moved on to new enemies ....Clinton hate is the new distraction now isn't it ...but still......shall we elect a clown for president? That will change everything I guess :roll:

remind me what countries should be at the Hague right now for war crimes?

and the wars go on....and on and on

Despite 10,000 civilian casualties in Yemen — 13 per day — U.S. reaffirms support for Saudi Arabia

give me a fucking break :roll:

on to finishing off the Native Americans!...

never mind Palestine ...have you looked at their map?

damn those Native Americans ..they just won't migrate out of "our" country
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism’s War on Europe

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:47 am

Does it ever get cold on the moral high ground?



sorry to link to that notorious right wing site AlterNet :P

Immigrants Are Sitting Ducks: Prepaid International Calling-Card Scam
If you've used one, you’ve likely been ripped-off.
By David Rosen / AlterNet August 26, 2016


Have you ever used a prepaid international calling card? If so, you’ve likely been ripped-off.

Immigrants and travelers most often use such cards to call family and friends back in their home country. Such cards seem to be an easy and low-cost method to make international calls. All a caller does is dial a “local access number” then plug in the destination number, thus allegedly turning a long distance call into a lower-cost local call.

The New York State Attorney General Eric Schneiderman estimates “the phone card industry has mushroomed to a $4 billion industry with an estimated 500 million cards sold last year alone.”

Consumers Report found that “prepaid phone cards are prevalent in immigrant communities, particularly among Hispanics.” It notes, the calls are “less expensive than those made from a standard landline phone.” Sadly, it warned, “our shoppers found that about three-quarters of the phone cards they bought didn't disclose calling rates. And, given the multitude of murky fees and surcharges imposed by many of the cards, being an informed buyer is nearly impossible.”

Dozens of companies are in the prepaid international calling-card business, including AmanTel, AT&T, CallingCard Plus, Dezco, Dollar Phone, Dynasky Sino, IDT, Noble.com, PT1, STI, SMT and ZapTel. And all-too-many offer hidden fee scams.

In 2015, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) reported, “ads from certain prepaid card providers claim that buyers can make hundreds or thousands of minutes of calls to certain advertised destinations for just a few dollars.” It then warned, “In reality, a consumer using these particular cards could make calls for only a fraction of those minutes due to multiple hidden fees and surcharges.”

The NY AG warns that among the leading “hidden fees and surcharged” foisted on callers are the following:

Connection fees - many cards charge at least 50¢ for connection and in some cases even more each time you make a call.
Pay phone surcharges -- many cards charge an additional fee of at least 50¢ per call for each call made from a pay phone.
International surcharges -- many cards charge an additional fee of up to $3.00 for each international call.
Taxes -- many cards levy an additional surcharge of up to 25% per call for "taxes."
"Maintenance fees" -- some cards charge a weekly "maintenance fee" after the card is first used; if you use the card only occasionally, this fee can add up.
Roundings -- most cards round up a call to the next minute; some cards use 6 minute rounding that means a 1-minute call will be charged as a 6 minute call.
The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) identifies still other scams:

“Post-Call,” “Disconnect” or “Hang-Up” fees -- charges deducted each time you hang up the phone after using the card.
“Pay phone surcharges” -- charges deducted if you use the card at a pay phone.
It found that calling card companies also rip-off customers through bad connections, access numbers that are almost always busy, and personal identification numbers (PINs) that don’t work. It warns, “As a result, the cards don’t deliver the call time they advertise. And because you’ve paid in advance, you may be out of pocket – and out of luck – if you discover a problem.”

Callers would never know that they’ll likely get ripped off by reading a company’s website or even comparing pricing. A recent study by QuickCall, “International Calling Card Rip-Off,” estimates that “up to 78% of advertised value is not delivered.” (QuickCall is a prepaid calling service that doesn’t use a card.)

The study examines five calling-card companies – DollarPhone, Dezco, IDT, SMT and STI -- in terms of fees for a 10-minute call to Ghana. The ostensible per-minute call vary, ranging from IDT’s 28.6¢ for IDT to DollarPhone’s 42¢; Dezco at 39¢, SMT at 31¢ and STI at 43¢.

However, the calling-card scam gets going when moving from the advertised or ostensible fee to the actual charges for a 10-min call to Ghana, for example. QuickCall found that with the additional of associated fees, the cost of a call jumped noticeably:

IDT -- $2.86 10-min rate, plus administrative fee on the card;
SMT -- $3.19 10-min. rate plus $0.39 per call completion fee;
Dezco -- $3.92 10-min rate plus $0.99 call completion fee;
STI -- $4.38 10-min rate plus $1.49 connection fee;
DollarPhone -- $8.19 10-min rate plus $1.49 completion fee and $0.25 min service fee.
On its website, DollarPhone states its mission as: “to Deliver an Unparalleled Distributor and Customer Experience.” And adds, “On the consumer side, we make sure that our consumers stay well connected to their friends and family abroad by providing them with innovative and top level prepaid solutions that meet their wants and needs.” It then claims, “No Added Fees: No additional taxes or monthly 'maintenance' fees to pay.”

But, as QuickCall found, a careful analysis of a 10-min call to Ghana reveals that the $8.19 charge broke-down as follows:



$4.20 for call portion;
$2.50 additional $.25/per minute service fee;
$1.49 completion fee and charged when caller hangs up.


The QuickCall study is not an isolated insight into how the call-card scam works.



ZapTel, a calling card “store,” offers 15 cards, ranging from AT&T to

Africa Best, Au Pair’s Choice, International Student’s Choice and to ZapTel Call The World. The cards offer calls to Ghana at per-minute fees ranging from 15¢/landline or 16¢/mobile from Phone Bank to 70¢/landline or 90¢/mobile from AT&T.



However, two-thirds of the cards have a warning notice, “Additional Fees Apply.” Among the major additional fees identified are:



Surcharges per call – charges vary and range from 15%; 10% -- $1.00 connect fee on each call, 69 cent connect fee if domestic call; 10% + variable $0 to $1.00 connect fee based on calling destination.
Service fees – vary by card, including: $0.79 every 5 days; begins midnight after first completed call; $0.59 every 2 weeks starting after first use; $0.59 charged once after first use and once per month thereafter.
Payphone surcharges – vary, including $0.99, $1.04 and $1.09.
Billing increments – vary, from 1 to 3 minutes, with connect fee is applied at the second minute.
Call origination allowed -- US-48 states, plus Hawaii and Canada.
Multilingual technical support – no.


It then warns, “Due to intrastate regulation when making a call within a single state, such as calling from one city to another in Texas, add 2 cents per minute to the stated USA rate.”

https://www.zaptel.com/zaptel/index.cfm ... rate_fin...



People have long complained about the numerous rip-offs associated with prepaid international calling cards. In 2015, the FCC fined six of these scamsters -- Locus Telecommunications, Lyca Tel, NobelTel, Simple Network, STi Telecom Inc. and Touch-Tel -- a $5 million each for false advertising. The FCC noted, “the companies marketed the calling cards to immigrant consumers by promising that a few dollars could pay for hundreds or thousands of minutes in international phone calls.”

http://www.law360.com/articles/717161/f ... lecoms-w...



Sadly, these cases took years to adjudicated, having started in 2011 and 2012. The wheels of justice grind slowly and no one knows all those still getting screwed by prepaid calling card rip-offs. Equally sad, the scams perpetrated against those calling Ghana is being played out against immigrants, tourists and other calling throughout the world.

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties ... -card-scam
Last edited by seemslikeadream on Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism’s War on Europe

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:49 am

September 5, 2016
EU president: Europe can't take more refugees
By Rick Moran
At a news conference held during the G-20 summit, European Council president Donald Tusk warned that the "practical capability" of Europe to accept more refugees is at its limit.
AFP:

Europe is "close to limits" on its ability to accept new waves of refugees, EU President Donald Tusk said Sunday, urging the broader international community to shoulder its share of the burden.

"The practical capability of Europe to host new waves of refugees, not to mention irregular economic migrants, is close to limits," he told a press conference on the sidelines of the G20 summit.

A steady stream of refugees has flowed into Europe over the last year, largely fleeing the civil war in Syria.

The issue has become a political hot potato for leaders in the region as a series of Islamist terror attacks and rising anti-globalisation sentiment have combined to create an increasingly inhospitable environment for refugees from the brutal conflict.

The highly publicised drowning of a three-year-old Syrian boy last year temporarily softened hostility to migrants, after pictures of his corpse lying on a Greek beach rapidly became an emblematic image of the suffering involved in their journeys.

Germany threw open its borders and volunteers across Europe flocked to train stations and frontier crossings to welcome those fleeing war and poverty.

But a major backlash swiftly followed. The EU's outer borders have since come back down hard, the so-called Balkan migrant route has shut and anti-migrant sentiment has soared.

Angela Merkel has been a strong voice pushing to continue to accept refugees. Although she won praise at first, the mood has since turned, giving way to fears over how Europe's biggest economy will manage to integrate the million people who arrived last year alone.

Her decision has left her increasingly isolated in Europe, and exposed her to heavy criticism at home, including from her own conservative allies.

While the number of refugees is significant, the real problem is that Europe has lost control of its borders and doesn't know who is coming in. Germany alone is tracking 500 potential terrorists in its midst, an unknown number of them new arrivals. Incidents of sexual assault and robbery have skyrocketed in some German cities, coinciding with the arrival of Syrian refugees.

The backlash has been predictable. If authorities don't care about the safety of their citizens, they'll pay at the ballot box. A recent German regional election saw Chancellor Angela Merkel's party finish third, while the nationalist AfD party came out on top.

Too late, most European countries that originally welcomed the refugees with open arms have now severely curtailed the number of new arrivals. Tusk's warning is too little, too late.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism’s War on Europe

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:47 am

seemslikeadream » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:47 am wrote:Does it ever get cold on the moral high ground?


I don't know, you tell me. Nothing in your responses relates in any way to the original article, which I did read. It's like you googled a random set of other stuff to post.

Venue of publication and author's prior work are not relevant here. It is an article with a clearly stated thesis and a set of premises, is it not?

Meanwhile, there is also an actual hasbara panic about how Europe is now so aggressively and increasingly anti-Semitic and heading toward a new attack on Jews, designed to draw immigration from France and elsewhere to Israel. These two extreme if opposite tendencies of thought fit each other so damned well, don't you think?

.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism’s War on Europe

Postby backtoiam » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:35 pm


https://youtu.be/PaO-L8FcM54





I would skip the live feed below. Its five hours of nothing to see with a lot of irritating beeping sounds.


Citizens and truckers block the port highway in protest of the Jungle in Calais.




Tensions Rise As French Citizens Blockade Calais Port Calling For "Demolition" Of Migrant "Jungle" Camp

Sep 5, 2016 11:15 AM

French farmers, truckers and police have all united in a major protest in Calais, France calling on President Hollande to announce specific plans for the demolition of the "Jungle" camp which houses around 7,000-9,000 refugees primarily from Northern Africa and the Middle East. Farmers and truckers have parked their trucks and tractors on major freeways effectively creating a blockade of the Calais port.

Banner reads Hollande, what are you doing?’ (@NickMartinSKY News) Hollande qu’est-ce que tu glandes? #Calaisblockade pic.twitter.com/8ghxbE9USi

— Gilles Klein (@GillesKLEIN) September 5, 2016

Truck drivers block roads in protest against Calais 'Jungle' https://t.co/yVrL0gqoiq pic.twitter.com/wp8yXNDXxO

— Ruptly (@Ruptly) September 5, 2016



Accorded to RT, violent crime within the camp has been on the rise and presents an increased danger to Calais residents. Reports have surfaced of some migrants attacking passing motorists, throwing various objects at windscreens and cutting trees in an attempt to hijack vehicles. There have also been reports of migrants threatening drivers with chainsaws and machetes.

One local Calais resident described the chaos to The New Observer as follows:



"They turn up in the center of the town, numbering 2,000, 3,000, 4,000, all over the place. They smash cars with iron bars. They assault people; they even assault children. They rob and they rape. What we endure is unimaginable."

Image
Image
Image


Tensions over the Calais jungle have grown after Great Britain's decision to leave the European Union. The Touquet Agreement signed between France and Great Britain calls for border checks to be performed on the the French side of the English Channel. As such, 1,000's of asylum seekers from North Africa and the Middle East seeking to reach Great Britain have been stopped in Calais.

That said, there is a rising tide of people in France now calling into question the validity of the Touquet Agreement in the wake of Great Britain's decision to leave the European Union. A few weeks ago we reported on comments made by Former French President Nicolas Sarkozy calling for the destruction of the Calais Jungle and for "Britain to deal with asylum seekers in Britain." Per Reuters:

"I'm demanding the opening of a center in Britain to deal with asylum seekers in Britain so that Britain can do the work that concerns them." Nicolas Sarkozy told a political rally in Touquet in northern France.

Sarkozy said Britain should manage the asylum process, accepting those it wants on British territory and organizing charters to remove those who are rejected.

"The jungle should not be in Calais or anywhere else, because this is a republic and those with no rights to be here should return to their country," Sarkozy said.




Below is a live feed of the protest underway in Calais.

https://youtu.be/ZvvxG1o-CRU



http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-0 ... ungle-camp
"A mind stretched by a new idea can never return to it's original dimensions." Oliver Wendell Holmes
backtoiam
 
Posts: 2101
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:22 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism’s War on Europe

Postby backtoiam » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:44 pm

Trumped! Massive concrete wall planned for Calais to keep migrants out of Britain
Published time: 7 Sep, 2016 10:20


Image

Britain will soon begin building a “big, new wall” at a cost of £2 million ($2.6 million) in an attempt to halt the flow of migrants and refugees crossing the English Channel, Britain’s new immigration minister has confirmed.

The 13-foot-tall (four-meter-tall) concrete barrier will replace fencing that has so far failed to prevent migrants from jumping aboard trucks headed for the port. Construction on the wall, which will stretch over the half mile (one kilometer) approaching the ferry port, is set to begin this month.

Image

“People are still getting through,” Immigration Minister Robert Goodwill told the Commons home affairs committee on Tuesday.

“We have done the fences. Now we are doing the wall.”

Goodwill, who served as transport minister until July, when he took over as immigration minister, told MPs that the project is part of joint £17-million ($22.7-million) Anglo-Franco project to beef up security at the Channel ports.

“We are going to start building this big, new wall as part of the £17 million package we are doing with the French. There is still more to do. We have also invested in space for 200 lorries at Calais so that they have somewhere safe to wait.”

Construction of the wall, which will be built from smooth concrete to prevent scaling, is set to be completed by the end of the year.

UK urged to accept 400 children as food shortages hit Calais Jungle camp https://t.co/OHJ26FZXwA
— RT UK (@RTUKnews) September 2, 2016

The move has been criticized by the UK’s Road Haulage Association as “a poor use of taxpayer money.”

“The money to pay for a wall would be much better spent on increasing security along the approach roads,” a spokesperson said.

Hundreds of truck drivers, shopkeepers, farmers, and police officers took part in a protest that blocked the road leading to the port of Calais on Monday demanding that the “Jungle” camp be shut down.

Local activists estimate that the camp is now home to around 9,000 people, while government figures put the figure closer to 6,900.

French Police Commissioner Patrick Visser-Bourdon has said the defenses of the port road were breached 22,000 times in June of this year, compared to just 3,000 times in January, the Telegraph reports.

https://www.rt.com/uk/358496-calais-wal ... -migrants/
"A mind stretched by a new idea can never return to it's original dimensions." Oliver Wendell Holmes
backtoiam
 
Posts: 2101
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:22 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism’s War on Europe

Postby American Dream » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:38 pm

Welcome to “the Jungle”: seeing beyond the chaos in Calais

September 8, 2016

Practices of mutual aid and collective solidarity have been at the heart of the Calais migrant camp, which is now threatened with destruction by the French state.

AUTHOR
Liam Barrington-Bush



In an atmosphere heavy with the fog of police brutality, immense overcrowding, people-smuggling “mafias” and regular inter-cultural conflict, it can be hard to imagine anything positive taking root. Yet Calais’ infamous “Jungle” migrant camp cannot be described through dire sensationalist headlines alone. Amidst the violence and chaos of the human fall-out of so many broken states, there remains something beautiful, against all odds, created by those who have ended up there.



Image


More at: https://roarmag.org/essays/jungle-calai ... anization/
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism’s War on Europe

Postby PufPuf93 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:16 pm

Refugees fleeing war and destruction is part of human history and an unattractive part of the human condition.

The refugees are a predictable result not an aggressive tactic.

If western nations chose to dump weapons into, attack, and forcibly obtain natural resources and land from the nations of the Middle East and Islamic dominated regions of the world, refuges will result.

People of Islam themselves have a long history of war and violence, colonialism and classism.

Europe is getting predictable blowback from a situation where Europeans have been the instigator (and devisor of unstable nation states post WWI) for the past several hundred years.

The idea of "Coercive engineered migration: Zionism's War on Europe" is the idea of demagogues; not an attractive phrase but a blameworthy and divisive phrase that exploits and revisits some of the worst ugliness of recent centuries.

Demagogues are a fundamental flaw in democracy where the demagogue-type leaders prey on the common people for popularity and power by exploiting prejudice, ignorance, and fear to feed misplaced passion and shut down reasoned discourse in the population. Crisis is manufactured and dissidents are mocked, marginalized, or subject to attack. Violence to outward threats and internal resistance is justified. Demagogues exists because the lure of the lowest common denominator and resistance to the foreign motivates with power.
User avatar
PufPuf93
 
Posts: 1886
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:29 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism’s War on Europe

Postby tapitsbo » Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:45 pm

One set of demagogues (the Polish and Hungarian sort are for the most part exquisitely careful not to ruffle sensibilities to the extent O'Colmain did) trading places with the previous set: the Sarokzys, Blairs, and so on.

The OP does have some distasteful features, prejudices, hyperbole, and so on. Talking about some of the alliances involved in these events will never be polite or tasteful.

If only Islamist terrorism was simple "blowback" - in that case it would easily be suppressed by other forces. Unfortunately I believe it is anything but. It is a proxy deliberately harnessed by transnational elites including those that European nations have faithfully supported. Arab nations that have put up a more meaningful resistance appear to be on the receiving end of exponentially greater punishments.
tapitsbo
 
Posts: 1824
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:58 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism’s War on Europe

Postby PufPuf93 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:15 pm

tapitsbo » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:45 pm wrote:One set of demagogues (the Polish and Hungarian sort are for the most part exquisitely careful not to ruffle sensibilities to the extent O'Colmain did) trading places with the previous set: the Sarokzys, Blairs, and so on.

The OP does have some distasteful features, prejudices, hyperbole, and so on. Talking about some of the alliances involved in these events will never be polite or tasteful.

If only Islamist terrorism was simple "blowback" - in that case it would easily be suppressed by other forces. Unfortunately I believe it is anything but. It is a proxy deliberately harnessed by transnational elites including those that European nations have faithfully supported. Arab nations that have put up a more meaningful resistance appear to be on the receiving end of exponentially greater punishments.


I agree with you and my excuse in not mentioning your more nuanced take is that my comment was a "flyover" without the nuance.

We probably agree that western powers and their intelligence agencies select, arm, finance, and often stand down when Arab and other Islamic actors rain terror.

The West has made questionable choice in overt and covert allies in Afghanistan, Russia and former Soviet states, the former Yugoslavia, Iraq, and elsewhere in the Middle East, Far East, and Africa; all related to the war-created migrations. I am certain that the West has been involved in Islamic false flag operations in the Islamic nations and in domestic nations as well. Lots of propaganda just new and expanded from 100 years ago.
User avatar
PufPuf93
 
Posts: 1886
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:29 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism’s War on Europe

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:38 pm

PufPuf93 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:15 pm wrote:The West has made questionable choice in overt and covert allies in Afghanistan, Russia and former Soviet states, the former Yugoslavia, Iraq, and elsewhere in the Middle East, Far East, and Africa; all related to the war-created migrations. I am certain that the West has been involved in Islamic false flag operations in the Islamic nations and in domestic nations as well. Lots of propaganda just new and expanded from 100 years ago.


Why isn't this pushed as an insight? Why do people instead blame the victims, the refugees?

Blowback and revenge for past Western atrocities, transnationally supported strategy of tension, or genuine Islamism: it can absolutely be reduced and eventually brought to an end. The swamp of arms dealing has to be drained, and it can be given the centralization of production. The accompanying "realpolitik" fostering new wars has to be rejected. The West has to stop backing the Gulf states and Israel.

.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism’s War on Europe

Postby tapitsbo » Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:41 pm

Yeah, PufPuf93 my posts on this board are quite offhand relatively low quality and I have a lot of respect for yours. Wasn't trying to shoot you down so to speak...

Sure muslim extremists have some "agency" of their own (some in this board have suggested that term is a hijack)

Personally I believe there are lots of forces that could rein these guys in but in particular private interests have kept the extremist militias going so now we see an arc of activity from Nigeria to the Philippines and beyond. As others on here have commented, government agencies are now often getting their information about these groups from private think tanks and corporations, whose published materials are often very revealing on these topics

Even the Gulf States and Israel however problematic have large factions hostile to the jihadist groups; countries like the US UK and France hardly seem a lot better. I think me and Jack might agree that world co-operation to regulate some of the private sector could help here. It doesn't seem likely though in the near future.

Of course rule-by-death-squad isn't only being applied to muslim areas. It's understandable that many Western populations are irked by what can feel like autonomy given to communities sympathetic to jihadism while the majority culture is closely monitored and often lacks political representation. On the other hand I absolutely believe that the clash of civilizations dynamic is being engineered and exploited by the owners of elite institutions that have global reach and overrule nation-states more often than not
tapitsbo
 
Posts: 1824
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:58 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism’s War on Europe

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:46 pm

tapitsbo » Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:41 pm wrote:It's understandable that many Western populations are irked by what can feel like autonomy given to communities sympathetic to jihadism


a feeling less in touch with the reality than the belief in the Obamaphone?
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coercive Engineered Migration: Zionism’s War on Europe

Postby PufPuf93 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:24 pm

JackRiddler » Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:38 pm wrote:
PufPuf93 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:15 pm wrote:The West has made questionable choice in overt and covert allies in Afghanistan, Russia and former Soviet states, the former Yugoslavia, Iraq, and elsewhere in the Middle East, Far East, and Africa; all related to the war-created migrations. I am certain that the West has been involved in Islamic false flag operations in the Islamic nations and in domestic nations as well. Lots of propaganda just new and expanded from 100 years ago.


Why isn't this pushed as an insight? Why do people instead blame the victims, the refugees?

Blowback and revenge for past Western atrocities, transnationally supported strategy of tension, or genuine Islamism: it can absolutely be reduced and eventually brought to an end. The swamp of arms dealing has to be drained, and it can be given the centralization of production. The accompanying "realpolitik" fostering new wars has to be rejected. The West has to stop backing the Gulf states and Israel.

.


The great majority of humans in general tend to blame victims in denial of how close they themselves may be subject to arbitrary victimhood.

We in the USA and West in general are brainwashed. We are taught to demonize victims. Most folks that directly suffer the effect of war are like more like us than different; they want peace and love and happiness and comfort and friends and family and security and medical and education and privacy and freedom from predators. So part of our social indoctrination as a war waging nation and culture is to demonize the victims. Individuals that grow up as victims also grow up angry and hopeless. Terrorism is said by some to indicate asymmetric warfare. To me "shock and awe" is itself terrorism. So the cycle continues and spreads.

Now about those predators that stalk the world; they are omnipresent and of various types. Breaking a society by war and abuse provides a ripe field for the domestic predator in the victim states. So the warlords and violent bullies thrive. Our agents don't look to the "good" for local allies but to the (often momentarily) "strong" and momentarily "useful" that are viewed as disposable. I am convinced that part of the goal of our "great" strategic thinkers (or predators) is chaos to keep other nations fractured and weak.

Too many people and institutions benefit from war in terms of money, power, and ego gratification. My sympathy lies with the victims and the people of the USA and West that lose lives and quality existence by all the wars. War is the most wasteful, cruel, and damaging activity of humanity. I agree with you about the "draining of the swamp" and "realpolitik" but open leaders and those in the shadows do not support peace. I have been staunchly antiwar for over 50 years now. The mind set I do not understand is that materially what is gained by war could be gained cheaper by peace. But maybe I do understand because of what I see immediate about myself in life experience of human nature. Too many humans are nasty selfish critters. Probably most religons and ideologies serve more as covers for the predators and nasties among us than actual driving forces for those social leaders that set the tones and decide the actions.
User avatar
PufPuf93
 
Posts: 1886
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:29 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 182 guests