The Syria Thread 2011 - Present

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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby American Dream » Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:55 am

The false binary is that because the regimes that claim control of U.S./NATO territories and et cetera are bad, that therefore the regimes that claim control of Russia/Iran/Syria must therefore be good.

Imprisoning, torturing, bombing of civilians is a major wrong, which has been perpetuated on large scale by these states. The far right perpetuates its own false binaries, even as it suits its purposes to decry such binaries when it is practicing entryist trickery towards liberal/left people who might be vulnerable to their ridiculous deceptions...
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby kool maudit » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:06 am

American Dream » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:55 am wrote:The false binary is that because the regimes that claim control of U.S./NATO territories and et cetera are bad, that therefore the regimes that claim control of Russia/Iran/Syria must therefore be good.

Imprisoning, torturing, bombing of civilians is a major wrong, which has been perpetuated on large scale by these states. The far right perpetuates its own false binaries, even as it suits its purposes to decry such binaries when it is practicing entryist trickery towards liberal/left people who might be vulnerable to their ridiculous deceptions...



Yes, yes, the far right and their ridiculous trickeries. The rotters. Nobody should like them and everyone should hate them.

Did you support the wars in Iraq and Libya?
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby American Dream » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:35 am

I am anti-War and anti-Imperialist as general principle and especially critical of the United States, Israel and Saudi Arabia. I do try to avoid "State exceptionalism", as I do know that the role of the State is to rule us (in partnership with Capital), whether by hook or by crook.

The hook is a sharp and bloody one and so we should offer solidarity- not bigotry- towards refugees generally, and we should oppose bloody regimes as they dominate and attack the populations under their control.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Searcher08 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:48 am

kool maudit » Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:06 pm wrote:
American Dream » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:55 am wrote:The false binary is that because the regimes that claim control of U.S./NATO territories and et cetera are bad, that therefore the regimes that claim control of Russia/Iran/Syria must therefore be good.

Imprisoning, torturing, bombing of civilians is a major wrong, which has been perpetuated on large scale by these states. The far right perpetuates its own false binaries, even as it suits its purposes to decry such binaries when it is practicing entryist trickery towards liberal/left people who might be vulnerable to their ridiculous deceptions...



Yes, yes, the far right and their ridiculous trickeries. The rotters. Nobody should like them and everyone should hate them.

Did you support the wars in Iraq and Libya?


"Entryist trickery" FTW

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_reservation
Social psychologists have advanced cases[14] where the actor is confronted with an avoidance-avoidance conflict, in which he both doesn't want to say the truth and doesn't want to make an outright lie; in such circumstances, equivocal statements are generally preferred. This type of equivocation has been defined as “nonstraightforward communication...ambiguous, contradictory, tangential, obscure or even evasive.”[15] People typically equivocate when posed a question to which all of the possible replies have potentially negative consequences, yet a reply is still expected (the situational theory of communicative conflict).[16]
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Searcher08 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:24 am

kool maudit » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:38 pm wrote:Next up:

1. The problematic nature of cash
2. An intersectional defense of the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement
3. The invisibility of hate: how CCTV surveillance can help fight racism
4. Whose environment is it? How wetlands protections hurt refugees, POC


:thumbsup

By Holy Noodles of the the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I salute you.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby American Dream » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:03 pm

https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/comme ... -baghdadis

Robin Yassin-Kassab

Assad's version of national liberation matches al-Baghdadi's


Image
Like Baghdadi, Assad aims to rid the country of Syrian majority which opposes him


Date of publication: 8 September, 2016



Because the Iran-Iraq war was followed by an endless succession of conflicts, we forget its foundational horror.

Killing at least a million, burning entire cities, and propelling identity politics towards its current fascistic heights, it was the region's equivalent of the First World War.

Iraq started the war. Exploiting Iran's mid-revolution weakness, Iraqi forces invaded, seeking to annex Khuzestan province. Had Saddam Hussein been a leader interested in safeguarding civil and national rights, Iranian oppression of Khuzestan's Ahwazi Arabs might have provided justication.

But Saddam was a tyrant who oppressed Iraq's Arabs just as much, and his prime concern was the province's oil wealth. His brutal aggression included raining poisonous gas on Iranian cities.

No-one can fault the Iranians for the passion of their response. Gulf, Western and Soviet support for Iraq's war understandably exacerbated the Iranian sense of victimhood which persists, and clouds so many minds, until today.

After a certain point, however, the war in Iran lost its defensive character. Khomeini rejected a 1982 truce offer from a chastened Saddam, determined to fight on until Iran occupied the Shia holy cities of southern Iraq. This never happened, but war conditions helped Khomeini neutralise Iran's revolutionary energies and firmly establish his own rule. The war dragged on for another six years.

Trench warfare followed the same grim routine as it had at Flanders and the Somme. Every day hundreds of boys surged from their defences and were cut down by enemy fire. Some accuse the Iranian regime of distributing plastic "keys to paradise" for the conscripts to wear around their necks.

It seems more likely that a prayer book entitled "Keys to Paradise" was handed out. Whatever the truth, the Iranian leadership's attitude to these men's lives was as callous as that of the aristocratic British officers who sent wave after wave of working class men "over the top" to their deaths seventy years previously.

Last week, allies of the Assad regime recaptured Aleppo's Artillery College and reimposed the siege on the liberated section of the city. Ferocious Russian aerial bombardment was key to the turnaround. But so too was cannon-fodder organised by Iran. Whenever the Russian planes relaxed, dozens of militiamen rushed towards the Artillery College. When they arrived they were torn to bits by rebel artillery. This happened every day for a month.

Assad - or the Iranians - lost up to a thousand men, just on this front alone. But "spent" seems a more appropriate word than "lost". They seem to have an inexhaustible supply of this currency.

Assad controlled less than a fifth of Syria before Russia's massive intervention


The cannon-fodder comprises Shias from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Lebanon and Iraq. The Afghans are often illegal immigrants in Iran, and fight in return for Iranian citizenship, or to avoid imprisonment. Some fight to support poverty-stricken families. Many others fight because their religious passions or political fears have been manipulated. They believe they are defending shrines and crushing Sunni jihadism. Of course the opposite is true. Their presence in a Sunni-majority country, their participation in a slaughter of Sunni Arabs, fans hatred of Shia and provides an enormous boost to Sunni jihadism.

Assad controlled less than a fifth of Syria before Russia's massive intervention. For years his army, hollowed out by defections, desertions, and high casualty rates, has been incapable of winning a battle on its own. The regime lost Aleppo's Artillery College in the first place because it was defended by released criminals, rounded-up deserters, and boys press-ganged at checkpoints.

Today the regime's most effective troops are sectarian and mafia forces more loyal to local warlords than to the regime itself. These are outnumbered by thousands of Iranian Revolutionary Guards added to tens of thousands of Iranian proxy militia fighters.

Syrian conscripts are often commanded by Iranian officers. Sometimes (if they disobey orders, or retreat) they are executed by Iranian commanders. And regime officers who resist Iranian dominance are sometimes removed or assassinated.

By now, the "state" and its "national sovereignty" are little more than fictions mouthed by those who desire the country's continued subjugation.

"Syria is not for those who hold its passport or reside in it," said Assad in July 2015. "Syria is for those who defend it."

In this way he justifies handing the country over - economically and geographically as well as politically and militarily - to murderous foreign interests.

Like Baghdadi, Assad aims to rid the country of the Syrian majority which opposes him.


Here Assad echoes Islamic State group chief Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, who said: "Syria is not for Syrians and Iraq is not for Iraqis. The land is for the Muslims, all Muslims." By "all Muslims", Baghdadi means that infinitesimally tiny minority which pledges allegiance to him and his totalitarian "caliphate".

Like Baghdadi, Assad aims to rid the country of the Syrian majority which opposes him. This is why half the population is displaced, six million of them abroad. Recently, the Damascus suburb of Daraya (and now its neighbour, Muadamiyeh) relented after four years of starvation siege and continuous bombardment. The fighters and residents were expelled. Pictures followed of troops carrying looted furniture out of town and Iraqi militiamen performing their prayers in the ruins. Now come reports of 300 Iraqi Shia families being moved in.

Wa'er, the sole surviving "liberated" area of Homs city, is likely to submit soon. So long as the Free Army's Southern Front - pressured by the US and Jordan - continues its relative inaction, Iran and Russia will continue to consolidate in south and central Syria. This means further sectarian cleansing, perhaps an eventual partition.

Some oppositionists hold that the rebellion's only option in these dire circumstances is to fight steadily southward from the rebels' base in the north, but it doesn't seem at all feasible that Islamists from Idlib will ever conquer Damascus.

The people of the south must liberate the south. It is essential, therefore, that the Southern Front be revived, even if this means harvesting American enmity. More than that, the elite, the grassroots, and the armed oppositions must do more to adress the fears of key Syrian constituencies together.

The rebel operation to liberate the Artillery College was named after Ibrahim al-Yusuf of the Muslim Brotherhood's armed wing, who in 1979 infiltrated the college, separated Alawi from Sunni cadets, and killed the Alawis. After years of the most brutal sectarian oppression, this open identification with a sectarian killer is perhaps inevitable - yet it obviously alienates Alawis and others, some of whom may hate the regime.

The current situation resembles a foreign occupation much more than a system of domestic repression. Despite the undeniably deep divisions between Syrians, this is no longer a civil war but a war of national liberation. The only way to prosecute it successfully is to attempt to bridge the gaps between the various constituents of the nation.

However difficult it is, necessary moves towards rebel military unity must be mirrored by Islamist and jihadist moves towards a truly national discourse. Success is prefigured in the recent message to Syrian Alawis delivered by a Free Army commander on the Hama front: "We have no hostility to you, but only to the regime. Anyone who helps us or remains in his home or raises a white flag will be safe. The safety of women and children and old men is assured. We aren't the opposition, don't fool yourselves. The 'opposition' competes for seats in parliament. No, we are the revolution... and in this country it will either be the revolution or the regime."
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Searcher08 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:18 pm

Blimey, the low quality crap just keeps coming

The above is filled full of holes by... Tony Greenstein. Jesus.

http://azvsas.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/robin-yassin-kassab-and-syrian.html
What Yassin-Kassab fails to perceive in what was often a rant against ‘leftists’ was that the Syrian revolution takes place in a context, viz. that Israel in particular wishes to see Syria split into its confessional parts – Sunni, Alawite, Kurdish. A scenario that the United States will not be disappointed with. In just the same way as the US attack on Iraq split the country into three and pitted Shi'ite against Sunni in a country where there had been little or no conflict between them before the invasion.

That is the context in which Hezbollah has come to the aid of the Assad regime. It is also, to a lesser extent the reason why the Iranian regime has become involved in propping up Assad.

For Israel and the United States, Hezbollah is undoubtedly the key target, as it is the only force in the Arab world to have defeated Israel, in 2006. The strengthening of imperialism will not, in the long terms, be of any comfort to the Syrian or the Iraq people.

What I most took exception to was Yassin-Kassab’s support for Turkey’s shelling of the Kurdish PYD, on the grounds that they were operating in Arab areas and presumably because they were fighting some of the murderous Turkomen groups. Yassin-Kassab also attacked the Kurdish PKK which is fighting against the genocidal Turkish regime of Erdogan in the South of Turkey. The PKK was a nasty Marxist group from what I could ascertain rather than the self-defence group that is overwhelmingly supported by the Kurdish people.

Whilst professing support for Kurdish self-determination Yassin-Kassab also supports repression by the Turkish state, which is somewhat at odds with support for the self-determination of the Syrian people. I wasn’t able to pursue the point because of the vigilance of Yassin-Kassab’s protectors at the meeting which suggests that this is rather a sore point.

I also interjected at the end of the meeting when Yassin-Kassab referred to fundamentalism in the region. I pointed out that much of it was a product of a deliberate strategy by the West. When I said that Saudi Arabia was the fount of fundamentalism in the region Yassin-Kassab demurred and when I pointed that the Saudi regime was a creation of British and then American imperialism he sought to locate the rise of the regime in the 17th century rather than as a product of the first world war and Britain’s sponsorship of Ibn Saud, which included both finance and weaponry, in his battles against his rivals in Arabia, in particular Sharif Hussein of Mecca [see Israel andSaudi Arabia - The Roots of a Special Relationship]. It is indicative of the fact that Yassin-Kassab fails to place the travails of the Syrian people in the context of Western imperialism.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby tapitsbo » Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:37 pm

American Dream » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:35 am wrote:I am anti-War and anti-Imperialist as general principle and especially critical of the United States, Israel and Saudi Arabia. I do try to avoid "State exceptionalism", as I do know that the role of the State is to rule us (in partnership with Capital), whether by hook or by crook.

The hook is a sharp and bloody one and so we should offer solidarity- not bigotry- towards refugees generally, and we should oppose bloody regimes as they dominate and attack the populations under their control.


Supporting IS and Al-Qaeda, then, would be a better look for you. They at least have some (probably largely phoney) claims to autonomy, and I believe more support from "the people" than the less sophisticated militias attacking Syria do. FSA are literally, undisguisedly US/Gulf/Israeli/Turkish proxies. So you're not "especially critical", then. That's some of your worst doublespeak we've ever seen, quite literally. The wannabe government based in first Qatar and now Istanbul is what your articles are supporting here. It's all a complete farce.

There isn't a false binary here, there's a real binary, hence the war. Imagining there is some kind of context-free anarchist underground waiting to blossom forth in the middle of the most contested conflict in the world couldn't be more misleading. These are horrible tropes that we should be thoroughly sick of hearing.

The evil State is supposed to be the problem in Syria, according to your sources, but the articles you post also claim, not without some evidence, that the "State" or the "regime" is so hollowed out as to not exist anymore, so what's the problem then?

Iran and its proxy forces don't have a massive impact around the world. The parties backing the FSA and jihadists do. The latter bloc is a much greater cause for concern, in my opinion, a belief that seems shared by many here. In my case as a North American the latter parties have a HUGE impact on policies where I live, exceptionally and unsupportably so, in fact. Hezbollah and friends, not so much.

The West and its allies appear to have encouraged the development of failed states for some time now, in the vein of Afghanistan, Somalia, etc. Ah, how glorious that these nations have been freed from the ignominy of The State! :roll: The apologists for this could at least have better rhetoric...

Thanks Searcher for helping underscore how this nasty coalition has decisively thrown the Kurds under the bus
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Nordic » Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:11 pm

What he said. ^^^^

The fake "good guys" there, like the White Helmets" are only interested in a full-scale war/invasion. That is the only end game for them. All their crocodile tears and pearl-clutching horror over the carnage there will not change that obvious fact.

"Somebody must do something!" They wail. Well that's the problem. Somebody IS doing something and that is the driving force of what they're complaining about. If those forces would go away, the forces they claim aren't doing ENOUGH (the US and their cronies), the situation would conclude almost immediately.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby tapitsbo » Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:40 pm

Who's supposed to fill the power vacuum as this conflict spreads to Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and beyond? Trump or Clinton governments seem to have their hearts set on expanding the war and misery.

We're not going to see Occupy-type anarchists restoring peace to the Middle East...

Iranians and their proxies are hated in this region, "legitimate" proxies of the West/Gulf are also hated, Turkey has its enemies... It seems only logical that jihadist groups will keep growing and expanding, as they have over the world.

The majority of people in the Arab world seem to be against being ruled by jihadists, but policies driven especially by the US have left alternatives very much weakened.

Dictatorships like Algeria and Egypt might be preferable, but they will face their own crises of legitimacy once again if they don't continue to adapt and change - and foreign governments like Western ones haven't shown convincingly that they aren't tripping over themselves in eagerness to destabilize these regions again.

All of this feels very much like it's occurred by design. The same destabilization is happening in Africa, and it is being rehearsed for Europe and Central Asia as well. Just look at the fever dreams published by Western think tanks.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby American Dream » Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:41 pm

https://pulsemedia.org/2016/09/10/russi ... n-reverse/

Russia, Trump and the New ‘McCarthyism in Reverse’

Charles Davis
Posted on September 10, 2016


Image
Soviet propaganda: “Money, Nuclear Weapons and the KKK”

It is U.S. election season, 2016, and the extremely dumb baseline for presidential-year rhetoric has already been exceeded with gusto thanks to a fake-tanned reality TV blowhard now leading a white nationalist movement as the Republican Party’s nominee. “Could it get even more dangerously silly, though — the discourse?” asks a visitor from a planet yet to be discovered by terrestrial science. Well, this is America, my little green partner: you’re damned right it will.

The how, however, in “how this election will increase the urgency of our desire for an early demise” has come out of far left field. The banal idiocy of the liberal, centrist, and now alt-right debate has been answered by contrarian-left columnists and their invocation of the Cold War witch hunt against allegedly-traitorous alleged communists, except this time it is not right-wing anti-communists being called out for baiting anyone to the left of Joe McCarthy as a red. No, the Soviet Union having collapsed 25 years ago, the roles of left and right have been inverted, and so it is the left-of-center critics of a proto-fascist who risk being outed as rank McCarthyites for criticizing a billionaire’s ties to and fondness for a right-wing authoritarian (one on the verge of a formal partnership with the U.S. war machine).

And with that, the alien craft exits the solar system.

Donald J. Trump, the candidate citing the Cold War as the basis for a new, “ideological screening test” to be imposed on immigrants: a victim of anti-communism? The mere thought of the argument may dull the senses, but it’s an argument that, unlike the USSR, just will not die in the alt-reality of punditry. That matters, not just because bad arguments are bad (certainly they are, but not all are worth rebutting), but because world peace literally depends on it. If the left’s so singularly focused on the worst claim a liberal personality has to offer that it spends more time rebutting than proposing—explaining that Vladimir Putin is not the head of the Illuminati—we’ll never get around to building a genuinely internationalist movement that rejects conspiracy for a consistent opposition to greedy capitalists and vicious imperialists wherever they may be.

In the meantime; instead: “Democrats Are Redbaiting Like It’s 1956,” informs the online magazine Current Affairs, for example, the article to which the headline is attached arguing that 2016 Democrats “have revived a long-dormant practice: accusing those to their left of being Kremlin operatives, and discrediting their political opponents with allegations of grand KGB conspiracies.”

But Russia isn’t red and neither is the Republican nominee for president. Still, though, we persist as if the KGB still exists, not because those engaging in the discourse are dumb, necessarily, but rather: we’re distracted by the dumbest arguments of the moment, and opposing them, to the point that we’re not making better arguments of our own. To wit: By suggesting, for instance, that Russian hackers infiltrated the Democratic National Committee and leaked unflattering emails to harm a candidate the Russian government has reason to hate — conflated, for purposes of knocking a straw-argument out the park, with the decidedly less common belief that Trump is literally a Russian secret agent — liberal Democrats are “conspiratorially positing that those who disagree with them are either intentionally or unintentionally serving the interests of the Kremlin.”

That argument requires no conspiracy, though: Trump has proposed policies that would serve the interests of the Kremlin — which, like the United States, seeks to promote its interests abroad — just as he and others, like Hillary Clinton, have proposed policies that would serve the interests of Saudi Arabia, Israel, Bahrain and other repressive governments. And, just as the U.S. notices when certain factions abroad are perceived as more amenable to its interests, Russia does as well. This isn’t chemtrails.


‘Red-Baiting’ Apologists for a Reactionary Russia

“It’s totally wrong to explain Trump’s success by externalizing him as a simple instrument of the Kremlin,” Ilya Budraitskis, an activist in Moscow with the opposition Russian Socialist Movement, told me. That’s not the dominant charge, but insofar as there are people making it the irony is it’s essentially the same line Putin and his allies use in Russia, “where the opposition is proclaimed to be ‘foreign agents’ and ‘national traitors.’”

Still, there’s no doubt who the Kremlin favors. “Of course Russia, for the moment, would prefer Trump as the next U.S. president,” he said. “The mainstream media inside our country glorify him as a ‘realistic thinking politician.” So while talk of secret agents is to be discouraged, the mainstream debate on Trump’s connections to and policies toward Russia would seem to be a legitimate one.

But the U.S. and Russia have historically been adversaries, something that those calling out McCarthyism, on the left, highlight as a distinguishing feature.

The history “of linking your political opponents to Russia,” The Intercept’s Glenn Greenwald said in a recent interview with Slate, “is a really dangerous and ugly one in the U.S.” In The New York Daily News, columnist Michael Tracey likewise argues that, “business dealings with sketchy Moscow oligarchs” aside, the linking of Trump to Putin “harkens back to the old days when McCarthyite slurs were regularly heaped on anyone who dared deviate from foreign policy orthodoxy.”

But McCarthyite slurs were not “heaped on anyone”: they were heaped on liberals and leftists by conservatives and fascists who believed the foreign policy establishment, not the fringe, was too soft on the Soviets. It was a right-wing movement that carelessly slung baseless charges of disloyalty and likened liberal domestic reforms to what at the time was the least appealing version of “the left” on the international stage, just as conservatives today link any left-of-center agenda to the economic crisis in Venezuela—or, still, democratic socialism with Stalinism.

But Trump does break with the U.S. establishment on foreign policy, and on Russia in particular, yes? Because that’s where the meat of this is supposed to lie: Whether the allegations are true or not that are ostensibly tainted due to the fact Trump is not being attacked due to the factual merits of his ties to Russia, like $12.7 million in secret payments from Ukraine’s deposed pro-Russia ruling party to Trump’s former campaign chief Paul Manafort, according to The New York Times, and Russian elites making up “a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets,” according to Trump’s son, Donald Jr. No, it’s his alleged break from the “orthodoxy” — his adherence to a “coherent philosophy that is non-interventionist,” as Greenwald told Slate — that sullies the discussion.

Does he really break from the Washington consensus in a meaningful, coherent manner, though? Trump is a critic of his opponent’s foreign policy, as one would expect of an opponent, but he is an avowed interventionist in his own right, calling for stepped up airstrikes in Libya and tens of thousands of combat troops in Iraq and Syria. But this is where tackling the dumbest version of an argument from a Clinton surrogate leads: a myopic compulsion to rebut the week’s most inane talking point very often compels absurdity and the hasty abandonment of one argument for the next.

Just over a week after telling Slate that Trump is an unorthodox isolationist, for instance, Greenwald was back with a column that argued the Republican nominee is, actually, in step with Washington’s foreign policy elite. Among other things, Trump has been “attacked by Democrats” over “his desire to cooperate with Putin in Syria,” Greenwald noted, but — and this will make the libs feel silly — “there’s another politician who advocates many of these exact same policies. His name is… Barack Obama.” And Barack Obama, the president of the U.S. empire, “wants to work in cooperation with, not opposition to, Russia, and has proposed a partnership to achieve that.”

A remarkable own, but of who? I venture: The Discourse just owned the columnist. Instead of writing a piece condemning a U.S. plan to escalate its air war in Syria — 5,000 airstrikes and 1,000 dead civilians — by sharing intelligence with and bombing Syria alongside Russia in a formal war partnership, Greenwald and other lefty anti-imperialists are preoccupied with scoring debate points in the game we call “the hegemonic binary discourse.” Escalating a war is accepted as mere “cooperation,” with opposition to that escalation confined to an aside on social media, if that — a distraction from the main point, which is: Trump is a victim of liberal McCarthyism because he breaks from the militarist status quo of the new Cold Warriors, but, also, he advocates the exact same policies being actively pursued by the most powerful people in the world.

An Allergy to Complexity

But vertigo-inducing Trump contrarianism is a symptom of a broader problem on the left, particularly its name-brand pundits. Rather than challenge the consensus on what the debate is with an independent, left-wing perspective, the parameters of debate are abided by those who think they’re breaking down walls by pointing out the room has four of them, not only two.

Instead of pointing out, front and center, that dropping bombs alongside Russia and dropping bombs on it are both undesirable, it accepts, for purposes of the discourse, a logic that an Intercept writer might well call Orwellian, with going to war billed as the opposite of going to war. Covered in the filth of the media trenches, the pundit slays talking points with talking points until the connection to reality is almost completely severed.

This speaks to the lack of a real, left-wing vision. On foreign policy, which is what the “McCarthyism” debate is all about, there is only reaction, with ahistorical references to anti-communist hysteria acting as what libertarian socialist Murray Bookchin described as “a form of McCarthyism in reverse”; a means of shutting down an intelligent conversation about U.S. policy and the left’s stance toward Russia. This leads to stasis: Talking points haven’t been updated since 2006, popular uprisings are conflated with externally imposed regime change and ongoing U.S. interventions — including ones planned with Russia — are omitted in favor of a Simplified Anti-Imperialism for the choir that hits all the familiar notes.

Adam Johnson uses his platform at The Nation, for instance, to slam the liberal media’s warmongering on Syria. Some ugly souls want to “do something” about kids being slaughtered there—they want another Libya!—and this media analyst is here to check the media’s push for a “humanitarian” war. Curiously, or not, two years of U.S. airstrikes, or the war that is actually happening, make it through the column without even passing condemnation. It is the threat of Nicholas Kristof that preoccupies, and usefully so: a year before Johnson was warning of “radical, medieval wahhabists” taking over the country, adopting the rhetoric of the neoconservative right in order to score a debate point against the do-something liberals. Thousands of U.S. airstrikes later and it might be awkward to acknowledge the target is actually the “wahhabists,” not the regime whose viral victims Johnson suggests could help escalate a war.

That the actual escalation with a chance of happening is being mapped out by John Kerry and Russia’s Sergey Lavrov, and has nothing to do with saving the victims of the latter and its Syrian ally? If it’s not described as “cooperation,” it’s not described at all. The narrative insists. The media war demands.

This is a problem. A left that doesn’t wish to confront the hard questions posed by reality retreats to lazy “media analysis” and the comfort of its tried and true talking points, winning social media debates in the eyes of the like-minded while losing the war for hearts and minds outside the internet subculture. Incapable or unwilling to provide an alternative to a dichotomy — neoconservativism or isolationism; Russia as a partner in war or the target of one — it rebuts arguments made of straw for purposes of self-satisfaction, not social change.

In an age of right-wing revanchism, left-wing pundits are providing too few answers to real world questions, preferring the smarmy certainty of stale cliches to developing a genuine alternative to dumbed-down binaries, with war framed as peace — or the framing at least accepted for purposes of the all-important argumentation — while actually existing airstrikes are omitted in arguments against war. If this is all the left has to offer, less and less people are going to sign up for its lectures and the genuinely left, genuinely antiwar movement we need to upend 21st century capitalist imperialism will continue to be an afterthought, on the left and among those in power.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Harvey » Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:52 pm

That was like watching a bucket of meal worms play twister. AD seriously, I defy you to even describe what the point of that essay might be.

Bottom line my friend is that a variety of interests are vying for places at the table when they reignite the cold war. They've proven themselves capable of self enrichment by keeping you and seven billion others chasing their tails so far but they're also collectively and individually remarkably stupid in many ways. If they miscalculate there'll be no more games. Their game is very nearly up anyway, they become more visible everyday and they're fighting back hard. Come the next big event after this little warning in New York, you'll either be with them or against them as they wish it. So please stop taking up my time unnecessarily. I don't appreciate it.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


Eden Ahbez
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby slimmouse » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:46 pm

We probably need to add Ken O' keefe to the Tony Greenstein list of shills and therefore stupid fucks or whatever it was AD coined them as in another thread.

To say nothing of Weinberg and Co, who AD seems to think are bastions of truth.

My point being , speaking for millions of intelligent people who are waking up to the BS that they are being sold by the likes of Weinberg and Co, including all their cointel with their millions of fucking dollars that the stupids throw at them - the game is almost up.

What worries me is that the stupids know it.

And (probably to quote them) Stupid is as stupid does.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby American Dream » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:56 pm

If you think that it good that "millions" may possibly have come to believe that shapeshifting reptiles really run this planet and that a world jewish conspiracy manages it for them, that Putin and Assad are great heroes who wouldn't hurt a fly and that the reactionary parties of Europe are leading the way to Freedom, well then, there's little more to be said, is there?
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Grizzly » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:20 pm

Russia walks out of UN meeting?




[Full speech] Samantha Power blames everything on Russia / defends US actions in Syria
Daily News TV
“The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it.”

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