The Syria Thread 2011 - Present

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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby tapitsbo » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:29 pm

I don't blame people for taking part in these movements that might have had a massive sincere component and plenty of legitimate grievances... But something didn't work out right

I am guilty of self-righteousness big time. If I sound obsessed with AD I regret it but there's a reason for it - i have a lot of experience with a demographic that treats these sorts of copy and pasted texts we get from AD as authoritative sources on objective reality... The esoteric commentary that justifies the mainstream materials most are exposed to
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby American Dream » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:51 pm

How much worse is it to have been "blessed" by close encounters with the racist, bigoted reactionaries of the far right?
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby tapitsbo » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:57 pm

The far-right is basically irrelevant to the genocidal policies in Syria you obliquely support

I have seen far-left/"anti-racist" sources celebrate the ethnic cleansing of Alawites, Assyrians, etc. however. Just like the more mainstream, US-funded al-jazeera does.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby American Dream » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:04 pm

Why do none of them want to talk about the bizarre reactionary movements which support blind devotion to Putin, Assad and other such "heroes"?
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Rory » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:08 pm

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/09/sy ... l#comments

boycott it. "Rebels" in east Aleppo had demonstrated against UN provided help and said they would reject it. There was a general rejection of the ceasefire by the "rebels" and they were eager to push for a wider and bigger war against Syria and its allies. Al-Qaeda in Syria even made a video against the ceasefire. A part of the ceasefire deal is to commonly fight al-Qaeda. They naturally want the deal to end. The attack on the aid convoy seems to help their case.

The motive argument makes an attack by the "rebels" plausible and an attack by Syria and its allies implausible.

Kerry spoke at the UN today and performed some funny stunts that had the silly purpose of blaming Russia.

He said that Jabhat al-Nusra and Jund al-Aqsa are al-Qaeda and U.S. enemies and must be fought. He did not explain why the U.S. -for the last five years- provided al-Qaeda with weapons and munitions (via its sponsored "rebels"). He did not explain why the U.S. so far did not do anything about al-Qaeda in Syria. He did not explain why the U.S. did not order and forced its proxy "rebels" to distance themselves from al-Qaeda as it had promised at the begin of the ceasefire. Laughable nonsense.

Kerry then demanded a no fly zone over north-west Syria to prevent attacks on aid convoys. The whole UN erupted in laughter (silently). Surely he would love that. His "rebels" could then rearm, regroup and openly prepare for new attacks as they did under the first ceasefire in February. No, Russia and Syria will not again agree to that, nor will the UN Security Council. The demand was a lame joke.

But the gloves are coming off. The Syrian/Russian side is convinced that the U.S. willfully attacked Syrian forces in Deir Ezzor to hand the city to ISIS. The "rebel"/U.S. side (or their relevant public) will convince itself (despite lack of evidence) that the Syrian/Russian side is willfully attacking hospitals and humanitarian convoys. The words in front of the UN got markedly sharper.

I am afraid that we will soon see another serious escalation of the conflict. An incident between U.S. and Russian planes or something like that. This is playing with fire in a room full of dynamite.

This show is no longer about Syria. The conflict is now part of the U.S. election campaign. It is also about some very stupid need of some adolescent nations to prove to the world that their balls are the biggest. Stupid and deadly nonsense that will kill many bystanders and solve nothing.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby tapitsbo » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:22 pm

Many levantines have no problem identifying the "opposition" as "contras".

How are people like FSA NOT far-right just like the folks in Azov Battalion are?

I'll be the first to admit this is a partisan take. But people in the West are mad about these wars too. Just look at the resistance the US Army offered to the idea of their deployment in Syria.
Last edited by tapitsbo on Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Nordic » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:33 pm

American Dream » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:04 pm wrote:Why do none of them want to talk about the bizarre reactionary movements which support blind devotion to Putin, Assad and other such "heroes"?


WTF are you even talking about? This stuff seems to only exist in your mind. Sure there's some propaganda sort of like this but I doubt it's taken very seriously because it's so blatant.

These are practical matters we're talking about. If we weren't trying to overthrow Assad, Syria would be a pretty peaceful place. As was Libya. The people of Syria wouldn't have been slaughtered by the tens of thousands, and same with the people of Syria now.

There is one force causing ALL of this. And it's headquartered in Washington DC.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby slimmouse » Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:45 pm

Focusing on the visible culprits for the time being

Those who profit from wars. Those who wish to privatise the very air that we breathe. Those who have stolen from and murdered , based on a hat-full of clearly demonstrable lies any number of usually dark-skinned people the world over.

Which isnt to say that every last one of us, be they human beings of any race or creed are not in their crosshairs.

Once we get our heads around this we can discuss further.

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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby kool maudit » Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:18 am

American Dream » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:04 am wrote:
kool maudit » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:29 am wrote:
Why do you consistently try to steer the conversation away from the far right, when it is the underlying political principles- and agenda- that matter so greatly?



In this instance it is because I do not see any real far right actors having serious decision-making ability in Syria. To make this issue a sub-fragment of one's opposition to the far right betrays a myopia regarding the nature of US/Nato foreign policy and an overcommitment to domestic internet strife at the expense of serious talk regarding this invasion attempt.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby kool maudit » Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:19 am

American Dream » Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:51 pm wrote:How much worse is it to have been "blessed" by close encounters with the racist, bigoted reactionaries of the far right?



These people loom too large in your mind. It appears as if you are haunted by their existence and are justifying policies and practices simply to remain diametrically opposed to them. They're running your show.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby American Dream » Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:35 am

Outright fascists- as well as the racists, xenophophobes and bigots of the far right generally- do matter a great deal. We should all be highly skeptical of claims that they do not.


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A red-brown alliance for Syria

Neo-Nazis, Stalinists, Catholic fundamentalists and pacifists may seem like strange political bedfellows, but they have found common ground in a diffuse brand of anti-imperialism. This left-wing/right-wing alliance's online campaigning and its active support for the Assad regime have led to a lack of solidarity with the Syrian people not only in Italy but elsewhere in Europe too. By Germano Monti

Almost exactly a year ago, the Piazza Venezia in the centre of Rome, where Benito Mussolini once addressed the crowds, became the scene of a very strange demonstration: outside the gates of the Syrian embassy, a few dozen people held up portraits of the Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad, and waved Syrian flags. Speakers took turns at the microphone, and finally, when the Syrian national anthem blasted out from the loudspeakers, some of the protesters raised their right arms in a Hitler salute, while the rest raised their clenched fists. This first "red-brown" demonstration was soon followed by others.

In the meantime, a movement known as the European Solidarity Front for Syria has become active. It unites numerous extreme right-wing groups from across Europe under the flag of the Assad regime. This brown solidarity front organises pro-Assad demonstrations and has already sent several delegations to Damascus, each of which has been received by the Syrian government in the national parliament.

One of these delegations paid the regime a visit shortly after the chemical weapon attacks in September 2012. Led by Ouday Ramadan, it also included Stefano de Simone and Giovanni Feola, leaders of the neo-fascist movement CasaPound, as well as Fernando Rossi, an ex-senator from the Italian Communist Party, who sought to close ranks with the radical right wing because of his support for Gaddafi and subsequently for Assad. This "poison gas delegation" was officially welcomed by the Syrian head of parliament Jihad Allaham, Prime Minister Wael al-Halqui, Information Minister Omar al-Zoubi and Deputy Foreign Minister Faisal Mekdad.

Fascist tradition

The reason for these fascist organisations' support for the Assad regime is partly historical. In 1954, Fascists such as Alois Brunner, leader of the SS special unit for the "final solution to the Jewish question" and Eichmann's closest associate, found a safe haven in Damascus. Hafez al-Assad, the current dictator's father, tasked Brunner with reorganising the Syrian secret service along Gestapo and SS lines.

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The founder of Italy's extreme right-wing Forza Nuova Party Roberto Fiore (right) and the granddaughter of the Italian dictator Benito Mussolini, Alessanda Mussolini (left), after a press conference in Rome

Since the beginning of the people's uprising in Syria three years ago, there has once again been a remarkable mobilisation of radical right-wing groups. Bashar al-Assad's adepts are primarily of Italian, French and Greek origin, but they also come from Germany, Spain, Belgium, the UK, Poland, Serbia, the Czech Republic and Romania. They are a rather heterogeneous bunch: from Marine Le Pen's French Front National, to the Polish Catholic Falanga, which called for the citizenship of all Polish Jews to be revoked in June 2013, to the Russian Alexander Dugin's Eurasian Vision and the Greek national-socialist group Mavros Krinos, which has prided itself on providing Assad with several militias.

Italy is the hub of this red-brown pro-Assad alliance because it can count on open support from organisations such as Forza Nuova (Catholic neo-fascists) and CasaPound (who also refer to themselves as the "fascists for the third millennium"). The alliance also includes several smaller groups that consider themselves "socialist" and vaunt their links with nationalist and Stalinist parties and movements all over the world – from Russia to Venezuela and North Korea.

All of these organisations have networks and links to parts of a confused anti-imperialist and dogmatic left wing. Rooted in Stalinist thought, this branch of the left is convinced to this day that the world is mired in a constant conflict between Western imperialism (represented by the USA, the European Union and their allies) and the resistance of "sovereign states" such as Russia, China and Iran.

A "red-brown army" to serve Assad

In the name of this crude brand of anti-imperialism and an Islamophobia that varies in intensity from group to group, the fascist right, the Catholic fundamentalists and the Stalinists have spawned a small, but active "red-brown army".

To avoid any misunderstandings, it must be stressed that CasaPound and Forza Nuova have relatively few active followers: only of a few thousand members. Both groups failed miserably in recent polls. Nonetheless, they exercise an influence over young Italians that is not to be underestimated. In student elections at a few secondary schools in Rome they even won the majority of votes, which meant that the European Solidarity Front for Syria was allowed to hold speeches at these schools and elsewhere.

While Forza Nuova focuses on the defence of the traditional family and the fight against abortion, CasaPound is more involved in the social sphere: its members occupy vacant buildings and organise campaigns for people with disabilities – as long as they are Italian. Both groups share a fundamentally racist and xenophobic outlook and a categorical rejection of "mondializzazione" (globalisation), which they perceive as a rapid loss of national sovereignty.


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According to Germano Monti, members of the European alliance that supports Bashar al-Assad are a rather heterogeneous bunch: from Marine Le Pen's French Front National, to the Polish Catholic Falanga, to the Russian Alexander Dugin's Eurasian Vision and the Greek national-socialist group Mavros Krinos. Pictured here: members of the neo-fascist CasaPound movement in Italy

This network of well-known political and cultural representatives is important for the support of the Assad regime. These representatives see the Syrian dictatorship as both a desirable societal model and a protective barrier against Israeli Zionism and Islamic fundamentalism.

Fear of Islam is playing an increasingly significant role in the politics of the right wing. In the run-up to this year's European elections, the leaders of various European extreme right-wing groups have met on a number of occasions – in Spain last November, for example, and in Rome in February 2014. Jens Pühse of the German NPD attended the Spanish meeting, as did members of the Syrian National Socialist Party (SSNP).

Syria's National Socialists

The SSNP is a close ally of Assad's ruling Baath party and has two members in the Syrian cabinet: the deputy prime minister and another minister. The party deploys its own units to fight side-by-side with the regime and the Lebanese Hezbollah militias against the Syrian rebels. The ideology of the SSNP, which was founded in 1932 in Beirut, as well as its symbolism are obviously modelled on that of German National Socialism: a raised right arm is used as a salute, and the emblem emblazoned on the flag closely resembles a swastika. The SSNP's Italian representative is the aforementioned Ouday Ramadan, who is in charge of organising support for the Assad regime in Italy.

The rapprochement between neo-Nazis, Catholic fundamentalists, Stalinists and pacifists under the banner of anti-imperialism is a crucial factor in the lack of solidarity with the Syrian people, particularly in left-wing circles. This small "red-brown army" is extraordinarily active on the Internet, with websites and blogs that initially seem to be left wing. Over the past three years, this army has managed to paralyse the Italian solidarity and peace movement for Syria by relentlessly invoking the spectre of a supposed NATO attack on Syria and a Zionist-Salafist plot against the Assad clan's "secular, anti-imperialist and socialist" regime.

Only in recent months have the mainstream media in Italy become aware of this phenomenon. Since then, they have reported on the activities of this dubious pro-Assad alliance. Furthermore, calls for democracy and humanitarian aid for Syrian citizens are increasingly being heard from the most influential peace organisations. Whether this is enough to diminish popular support for this ideological melting pot remains highly questionable.

[size=85]Germano Monti


Translated from the German by Jennifer Taylor
Editor: Aingeal Flanagan/Qantara.de

Germano Monti is a freelance journalist living in Rome. He is one of the co-ordinators of the Freedom Flotilla Italia and has taken part in a number of international peace and solidarity missions in Gaza, the West Bank and in several Palestinian camps in Lebanon and Egypt. He is also one of the founders of the Italian Committee for Solidarity with Syria.[/size]



https://en.qantara.de/content/the-syria ... -for-syria
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby kool maudit » Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:10 am

American Dream » Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:35 am wrote:Outright fascists- as well as the racists, xenophophobes and bigots of the far right generally- do matter a great deal. We should all be highly skeptical of claims that they do not.




We were talking about US/Nato foreign policy in Syria, which was led and is being led by a "centrist"/neoliberal – or arguably a neoconservative-influenced – US government and not a far right/fascist one.

You dance around topics like spit on a griddle.

Syria, AD. Not bigots. Not racists. Not the ever-present spectre of reactionary sentiment.

Syria.

The invasion thereof by the Americans.

Why is this always so frustrating?!
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby American Dream » Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:48 am

The obsession with murderous and authoritarian leaders as somehow good makes no sense and is based on really poor politics, in my view. Just because I reject US hegemony and the wrongdoing of its allies will never mean that I jump on board with Assadm Putin or other such "anti-imperialists".

The main axis of such lunacy is tankies (e.g. the crypto-stalinists of the Workers' World Party), fascists and their fellow travelers on the far right, and whatever conspiracists and progressives they are able to hoodwink. I see the massive funding of information warfare as sponsored by Putin and russian elites as central to the conspiracy, as they have clearly courted a ton of far right individuals and parties, and currently have a lot of job openings.

I can't imagine any way you'll convince me of your point of view, kool maudit, so I see no compelling reason to do anything but agree to disagree. I'm not a marxist-leninist but never would I be a baathist:


The Anti-Imperialism of Fools

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معاً ضد الديكتاتورية. Juntxs contra la dictadura. Together Against Dictatorship
(Poster featuring Rokan a Kurdish PYD fighter from Aleppo)



AUGUST 26, 2014

As we all witnessed yesterday Syria’s foreign minister Walid Muallem said that Syria will offer to help the US fight the Islamic State (IS) militant group. This of course has left the so called Anti-war camp and “Anti-Imperialist” left in the U.S/West and even Arab assadists that support Assad either confused or silent on the matter. It’s important to note these are the same leftists or as some call them ‘tankies’ that support Russian imperialism and Iranian mini-imperialism in the Middle East and don’t even care whether Russia is a capitalist oligarchy or if Iran has communist political prisoners in its jails or killed because of their ideas this shows you how unprincipled they can be by becoming reactionary by supporting bourgeois nationalism and fascism. This article will focus on the many ways to break the regime’s “resistance” and “rejection of U.S/Western Imperialism” narrative and a way for critically think about Syria and the peoples mobilization against the regime.

I. Understanding the Assad regime and Syria

In order to understand what led to the masses in Syria rising up against the regime we must look into the social,economic and material conditions in Syria. I will provide a short introduction from comrade Yasmeen Mobayed:

the ba’ath party staged its first military coup in syria in 1963. in 1966, hafez al-assad participated in the second military coup, which brought salah jadid to power. from 1950-1970, hafez al-assad was a lieutenant in the syrian air force, the head commander of the syrian air force, and the minister of defense. then in 1970, hafez al-assad led the third military coup to topple salah jadid, finally forcing himself into power. hafez al-assad actively used sectarianism as a method of consolidating and maintaining his power – he greatly increased alawite dominance in the regime’s security and intelligence branches, though his elite class was of all sects. the core of the assad regime, however, consisted (and still consists) of assad family members/relatives who control everything from the army to the economy (ex. rami makhlouf, bashar al-assad’s cousin, controls 60% of syria’s economy).
an introduction to syria – its history and its present revolutionary struggles

Beginning in the 1980’s Hafez Al-Assad began implementing neoliberal policies and especially in 2005 where the “social-market economy” was introduced which was according to Professor Omar S. Dahi This “was more market than social”. This type of authoritarian neoliberalism caused a crisis and mass poverty and unemployment where the peasants in the country side and the proletariat in the city suburbs and working class neighbourhoods suffered and these include the rise of “informal housing” or slums where people were forced in because the rent and housing prices and gentrification rocketed in Syrian cities they people were left in despair and it’s not surprising that when the protests broke out in Tunisia, Egypt the Syrian people saw that they had nothing to lose and rose up against the regime.

II. The Assad regime has always been a servant of Imperialism and Zionism

According to syrian regime narrative it has always been a “resistance” and “Objector to Zionism and U.S Western Imperialism” now we know from it’s history that it is far from that. Beginning with the Golan Heights a Syrian territory occupied by Israel Hafez-Al Assad never bothered to fight to return it and left it under occupation and zionist settler-colonisation. During the Lebanese Civil War Hafez-Al Assad and the Syrian Army led a war on Palestinian refugee camps which resulted in the deaths of many Palestinian civilians and was condemned by Palestinian revolutionaries like George Habash the founder of the PFLP who was critical of the regime in this video he criticizes the syrian regime for being a tool of zionism and imperialism and the regime being a killer of the Palestinian people next to israel. Now recently his son Bashar Al-Assad launched his own war on the camps in Syria with siege and shelling of Yarmouk Refugee camp and other camps. like Ramel in Lattakia and Dar’aa camp in southern Syria, Homs Al’Aiddeen camp and Handarat Aleppo camp where many of the inhabitants were killed, starved and made refugees again. The Assad regime has always served U.S/Western Imperialism besides the recent offer to aid to U.S strikes on I.S it collaborated with the U.S in the gulf war and under Bashar looked to re-establish ties with Israel. Also we can’t forget that the Syrian regime and it’s mukhabarat (intelligence services) worked with the C.I.A to torture on people on “extraordinary rendition” like the case of the Syrian-Canadian citizen Maher Arar who was kidnapped, deported and sent to be tortured by the syrian mukhabarat.

III. The Assad regime is Anti-Communist

This has to be always repeated the Assad regime is a bourgeois nationalist, capitalist and social chauvinist state that has always repressed any dissent against it with the use of it’s Mukhabarat (intelligence services) and especially the air force intelligence, Army and Shabiha (Regime backed Death Squads). Yes the Assad regime is Anti-Communist which is not surprising since the 1970 coup by Hafez Al-Assad was a right-opportunist and reactionary takeover against the Marxist and leftist Salah Jadid. The Regime has cracked down on many communist groups especially the Syrian Communist Action Party it has a Maoist tendency and was heavily repressed in the 70’s and 80’s by the Syrian regime and many of its cadres were militants in the 70’s student radicalism especially in Aleppo University where it was centre of a revolutionary organization. Also the regime heavily repressed Palestinian groups like the Palestinian Popular committees which was established in the 80’s and supported the Syrian communist action party and other leftist and communist militants the group had many of its cadres killed,arrested and tortured in Syrian regime prisons. And many of these militants were from all sects especially the Alawite, Sunni, Ismaili, Druze,Shia and Christian sects. Regarding the Kurdish people the syrian regime prisons have always been filled with Kurdish political prisoners and the regime itself denied Kurds citizenship and cultural and linguistic rights. Syrian communists in jail include Abd al Aziz al Khatyyer, Jihad As’ad. Also the Palestinian filmaker from Yarmouk camp Hassan Hassan who was tortured to death by the regime. The Assad regime is no different from the Somoza, Pinochet, Suharto and Kuomintang regimes it should be condemned by every Marxist-Leninist, Anti-Imperialist, leftist and socialist.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby kool maudit » Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:59 am

Fair enough. For what it's worth, I agree that Baathist regimes are cruel and authoritarian. It is just that their replacement by nothing is even more so, and this is what the empire is offering.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Nordic » Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:08 pm

AD why can't you get the strawmen out of your head?

Being against the war against Syria doesn't mean that we think Assad is necessarily GOOD.

And yeah, conducting war against a country tends to unite people of all stripes against a COMMON ENEMY.

If, say, China suddenly attacked the US for no reason than to overthrow it and take it over for their own economic benefit you can bet your ass liberals, conservatives, racists, progressives, would all unite in justified outrage against it.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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