The Syria Thread 2011 - Present

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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby American Dream » Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:53 pm

http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2016/10/o ... oners.html

On Syrian political prisoners: a perspective never seen in US media

"As the crisis first unfolded in Daraa, Sheikh Sayasneh was invited to Damascus in an attempt by the authorities to de-escalate the situation. One of the key demands of the cleric was the release of prisoners, the majority of whom were Islamists. This pattern was often repeated throughout the early phase of the crisis. The U.N special envoy, Kofi Annan, took up this demand. He too insisted that all political prisoners be released. While many in the opposition are convinced that the release of salafists, such as Zahran Alloush, who was imprisoned for organizing prayer meetings, was engineered by Damascus to help radicalize the opposition, the truth is probably more nuanced. The Syrian State was desperately trying to stop the uprising by using both the stick (swift response against protestors) and the carrot (release of prisoners when urged). While one may still debate this argument and claim that the government’s secret intent was to turn the uprising into an jihad, the fact is that what Damascus sees today are insurgents and Islamist armed groups who want nothing less than to destroy the Syrian State and replace it with a one of their own design, one that would conform to sharia. They call it “more Islamist in identity”."

Posted by As'ad AbuKhalil
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Nordic » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:12 pm

Time to put AD back on "ignore" to clean up this thread so I cans risky read it.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Luther Blissett » Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:13 pm

In reading and trying to parse this thread I have such a difficult time understanding why everyone walks away with the exact opposite reaction to American Dream's posts as I do and how. It all seems invented out of whole cloth.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Searcher08 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:34 pm

Luther Blissett » Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:13 pm wrote:In reading and trying to parse this thread I have such a difficult time understanding why everyone walks away with the exact opposite reaction to American Dream's posts as I do and how. It all seems invented out of whole cloth.


I generally see (poorly disguised) neoLiberal talking points cynically disguised in politically correct fogweed.
I see a stated position that criticses others for having a binary position
(NeoLiberals are Bad NOT imply| Assad and Putin are Good)
His articles do not deal with ISIS, with their funding from Qatar; with the barbaric treatment of women in their (and their funders) regimes.
Many times there have been direct connections with Open Society Foundations, such as the "IFB".
So I see it as a stunningly hypocritical position - say one thing and the post another.

I don't see how someone who has always come across (at least to me) as a great guy, focused on giving a shit and doing stuff and helping others do the same, can have this reaction to what is at best unintentional conversation derailing and at worst, flooding with low quality information.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I see you as in a different (infinitely better) universe to apparatchik totalitarian-in-waiting fuck sticks like Spencer Sunshine and OSF shill Copy Pasta here.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Luther Blissett » Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:43 pm

Maybe I just don't get it. As if the Syrian conflict is something that's hard enough to understand (beyond my recognizing the early "climate conflict" impetus to the whole war) maybe I just don't get the nuances.

For instance, I didn't know that the International Freedom Battalion was funded by Open Society - is that really true?
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby tapitsbo » Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:42 am

AD has posted a wide range of material, some of it with narratives close to what everyone else has been posting. Most of the material he posts follows this criterion: US/Israel allies good, non-compliant actors bad.

The Russian/Syrian propaganda about the war has worked because it is more honest on many of the issues (moderate rebels, blah, blah, blah)

Stefan de Mistura's background is bizarre; this guy has presided over conflicts again and again with extremely sketchy outcomes like in the former Yugoslavia.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby kool maudit » Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:14 am

AD has his heartfelt opposition to the right wing and nothing else. His stances on Syria are informed solely by this.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby American Dream » Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:20 am

Nope- I started with progressive/radical leftism and an anti-Establishment orientation, which means I oppose Putin, Assad, Ghadafi, and Ahmadinejad/Rouhani and that whole axis of power, too- not only the familiar bogeymen of the U.S./NATO etc.

It wasn't till I got here that I really found out that there are crypto-racist/crypto-fascist types who support such brutal regimes and hide behind a "Neither Right nor Left" front. That they are increasingly becoming pawns of the Russian State and its propaganda program only makes things worse.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby chump » Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:59 am

Image


https://www.corbettreport.com/off-again ... sh-stream/
... And so the narrative is that the same deep state elements that plotted against Erdoğan this summer were in fact plotting to undermine his rule quite a bit before then as well, a plausible assumption and one that was pointed out by myself and analysts like Sibel Edmonds at the time. Of course, this doesn’t explain why Erdoğan seemed to go along with it at the time, neither denouncing the shootdown or apologizing to Russia but doubling down with inflammatory rhetoric. Was he just stringing the coup plotters along until they made their move so he could counter-attack with the pre-planned purge?

Such loose ends seem to have been hidden under the carpet for now at least, as Putin and Erdoğan are all smiles in public and only too happy to announce their big deal. Still, the underlying tensions are still there. Moscow and Ankara remain on different sides of the Syria divide, with Russia supporting Assad and Turkey supporting the mercenaries that have been brought in to destroy Assad’s country. Aleppo remains an obvious flashpoint for this tension, one addressed directly by the two in a joint news conference about the deal. According to Reuters:

Both men said they had agreed on the importance of delivering aid to the city of Aleppo, whose opposition-held eastern sector has been encircled by Russian-backed Syrian forces for all but a short period since July. “We have a common position that everything must be done to deliver humanitarian aid to Aleppo. The only issue is … ensuring the safety of aid delivery,” Putin said, adding he had agreed with Erdogan to intensify military contacts.


The other interesting thing about the timing of this deal is that it comes exactly as Russia is becoming the focal point of a new round of international demonization. Moscow’s veto of a Security Council resolution on Aleppo brought by France has led to some serious diplomatic fallout: Earlier this week the Kremlin confirmed that Putin’s scheduled visit to France next week has been canceled. Russian ties with the EU may be at an all time low.

So given widespread disgust with Erdoğan in the EU population these days and the hysteric demonization of Putin, all eyes have to be on the EU right now. Now EU leaders may differ on the relative merits of Russian gas imports, but the real question is: Will they attempt to decrease reliance on gas from Turkey knowing that it’s sourcing from Putin? Do they have any alternative? At the moment, they don’t.

And so the oiligarchs (as well as Putin and Erdoğan) will be laughing all the way to the bank. As long as it’s not Deutsche Bank, this deal might work out well for them.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby American Dream » Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:51 pm

https://news.vice.com/story/assad-says- ... nues?cl=fp

Aleppo will be “cleaned”

Assad's shocking comments come admid unrelenting attacks on the besieged city

By David Gilbert on Oct 14, 2016

Bashar al-Assad has called the ongoing bombing of parts of eastern Aleppo by Syrian and Russian warplanes a process of “cleaning” the city, and compared the current diplomatic rift between Russia and the West a continuation of the Cold War.

The Syrian president, speaking to Russian newspaper Komsomolskaya Pravda, said the attacks on the rebel-held parts of Aleppo were necessary to push terrorists back to Turkey and would act as a “springboard” for further Syrian government-led operations.

“You have to keep cleaning this area and push the terrorists to Turkey, to go back to where they come from or to kill them. There’s no other option,” Assad said. “Aleppo is going to be a very important springboard to do this move.”

Assad’s comments follow weeks of unrelenting attacks on the city, which has seen 358 civilians die, including at least 100 children, since the collapse of a U.S.-Russia–orchestrated cease-fire earlier in the month.

Assad’s continued military operations in Aleppo, with crucial assistance from Russia, prompted Western officials — most notably U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry — to call for a war crimes investigation into the governments of Assad and Russian President Vladimir Putin.

This week alone the death toll is reportedly over 150 people, with 13 dying in attacks on Thursday.

“What we’ve been seeing recently during the last few weeks, and maybe few months, is something like more than Cold War,” Assad said in the interview. “I don’t know what to call it, but it’s not something that has existed recently, because I don’t think that the West and especially the United States has stopped their Cold War, even after the collapse of the Soviet Union.”

Assad’s comments come the day before Kerry is set to meet Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov in Switzerland in the latest round of talks aimed at ending the yearslong bloodshed in Syria. The talks will also include key regional players Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Qatar.

According to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, the bombardment of rebel-held areas of the city continued Thursday night, though no new deaths were reported by the independent monitoring group that relies on local accounts to document airstrikes and military operations within Syria and Iraq.

The anti-government forces fighting to hold onto eastern Aleppo are made up of various groups, including factions of the Free Syrian Army that are supported by Western governments, and Jabhat Fateh Al-Sham, a former al-Qaeda affiliate previously known as the Nusra Front.

There are thought to be up to quarter-million civilians trapped inside Aleppo, cut off from crucial aid and supplies.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Rory » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:28 pm

American Dream » Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:51 am wrote:https://news.vice.com/story/assad-says-aleppo-will-be-cleaned-as-bombing-continues?cl=fp

Aleppo will be “cleaned”

Assad's shocking comments come admid unrelenting attacks on the besieged city

By David Gilbert on Oct 14, 2016

Bashar al-Assad has called the ongoing bombing of parts of eastern Aleppo by Syrian and Russian warplanes a process of “cleaning” the city, and compared the current diplomatic rift between Russia and the West a continuation of the Cold War.

The Syrian president, speaking to Russian newspaper Komsomolskaya Pravda, said the attacks on the rebel-held parts of Aleppo were necessary to push terrorists back to Turkey and would act as a “springboard” for further Syrian government-led operations.

“You have to keep cleaning this area and push the terrorists to Turkey, to go back to where they come from or to kill them. There’s no other option,” Assad said. “Aleppo is going to be a very important springboard to do this move.”

Assad’s comments follow weeks of unrelenting attacks on the city, which has seen 358 civilians die, including at least 100 children, since the collapse of a U.S.-Russia–orchestrated cease-fire earlier in the month.

Assad’s continued military operations in Aleppo, with crucial assistance from Russia, prompted Western officials — most notably U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry — to call for a war crimes investigation into the governments of Assad and Russian President Vladimir Putin.

This week alone the death toll is reportedly over 150 people, with 13 dying in attacks on Thursday.

“What we’ve been seeing recently during the last few weeks, and maybe few months, is something like more than Cold War,” Assad said in the interview. “I don’t know what to call it, but it’s not something that has existed recently, because I don’t think that the West and especially the United States has stopped their Cold War, even after the collapse of the Soviet Union.”

Assad’s comments come the day before Kerry is set to meet Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov in Switzerland in the latest round of talks aimed at ending the yearslong bloodshed in Syria. The talks will also include key regional players Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Qatar.

According to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, the bombardment of rebel-held areas of the city continued Thursday night, though no new deaths were reported by the independent monitoring group that relies on local accounts to document airstrikes and military operations within Syria and Iraq.

The anti-government forces fighting to hold onto eastern Aleppo are made up of various groups, including factions of the Free Syrian Army that are supported by Western governments, and Jabhat Fateh Al-Sham, a former al-Qaeda affiliate previously known as the Nusra Front.

There are thought to be up to quarter-million civilians trapped inside Aleppo, cut off from crucial aid and supplies.


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/troops-laun ... h-assault/

Backed by a barrage from warplanes and artillery, American troops fought their way into the western outskirts of Fallujah on Monday, seizing a hospital and two bridges over the Euphrates River in the first stage of a major assault on the insurgent stronghold.

The U.S. military reported its first casualties of the offensive — two Marines killed when their bulldozer flipped over into the Euphrates. A military spokesman estimated that 42 insurgents were killed across Fallujah in the opening round of attacks.

Four foreigners, including two Moroccans and two unidentified people, were captured when U.S. and Iraqi forces swept into the first objective: Fallujah's main hospital, which the military and Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi said was under insurgent control.

Iraqi soldiers stormed through the facility, blasting open doors and pulling handcuffed patients into the halls in search of gunmen.
After securing the hospital, U.S. and Iraqi forces started to take sporadic incoming fire, CBS News reporter Kirk Spitzer, embedded with U.S. troops, said.

Allawi said he had given the green light for international and Iraqi forces to launch the long-awaited offensive against Fallujah, considered the strongest bastion of Iraq's Sunni insurgents. "We are determined to clean Fallujah of terrorists," he said.

Allawi initially said 38 people were killed in the hospital seizure, but the U.S. military said no one was killed in the hospital operation. A military spokesman later gave a figure of 42 dead across the city since the Fallujah assault began.

Doctors in Fallujah reported 10 people killed and 11 wounded during the bombardment overnight.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby American Dream » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:30 pm

Two- or more- wrongs, never make a right, unless you mean the far right which is all over this stuff as mindlessly as flies over shit...
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Rory » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:34 pm

American Dream » Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:30 am wrote:Two- or more- wrongs, never make a right, unless you mean the far right which is all over this stuff as mindlessly as flies over shit...


so why frame it as 'another example of his evilness', when it's simply par for the course?
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby American Dream » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:37 pm

That's your projection. I do think the anti-Imperialism of Fools is poisonous, whether branded as "Left" and/or "Right.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Rory » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:40 pm

American Dream » Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:37 am wrote:That's your projection. I do think the anti-Imperialism of Fools is poisonous, whether branded as "Left" and/or "Right.


It's great that you acknowledge your human frailties. So why do you do it anyway if you know it's so bad?
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