Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started. They could still get him out of office. But instead, they want mass death. Don’t forget that.
seemslikeadream » Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:54 am wrote:I love Dennis and Cynthia McKinney ..use to post about them all the time at DU years ago ..they've deleted so many threads
That said, to Jerky and SLAD, our two lone Hillary defenders...I will concede this point: Hillary I thought did her best performance tonight. Was poised, laid out a great progressive-ish rights case in the beginning. And unlike the "Hillary is sick" conspiracies, Trump was the one who looked rather sickly tonight. Either that or he smoked quite a big doobie
please link to all the defense of Hillary posts I have made
on edit
and the posts I made defending a woman's right not to be blamed for her husband/boyfriends deeds do not count
still waiting
while I am waiting here's a post I made 9 years ago...nope not quite a support of Hillary post
Last edited by seemslikeadream on Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started. They could still get him out of office. But instead, they want mass death. Don’t forget that.
I'm not sure where you are at the moment SLAD. Was that agreement or "Look at the little man posturing."
Either way, what part of the essay above do you agree with/deny?
Absolutely agree with everything Dennis has said in the past and present. He is the most honest... respectable.... decent...experienced politician I have ever known......he knows how long it takes in this system...he knows the system....he knows the hard work it takes ...he is in it for the long haul.....he knows there is no quick fixes....he knows it takes time to change things ...nothing happens overnight....he sees change....he has fought so hard his whole life....more people should listen to him......and not the quick fixers who think they can just show up say some nice things and fool people into thinking change can happen over night...he is a fighter....he is a warrior ....he knows this election is not the end ..it's only the beginning ....he can give credit where credit is due....he is a person to be listened to...he is not an absolutist..he is not a fake...he will not say some shit just to get followers ...he is genuine ....he has more experience in his little finger than Jill Stein ever could have.....he is the REAL DEAL
Kucinich: A major third party is coming ...but it takes time...patience...commitment...and a whole lot of hard work...long long years of hard work..
people who do not understand the nitty gritty of American politics need not apply....they pretend to know what is best for Americans but they do not.....they have no understanding of the common man's long long struggle in this country.....what it takes in this country to create change ...intelligent Americans know how to change things...ask a Black person...ask a woman
Rep. Dennis Kucinich’s Website Watch all Democracy Now! interviews with Rep. Dennis Kucinich This is viewer supported newsDONATE Democratic Rep. Dennis Kucinich of Ohio is serving his last week in Congress after eight terms in office. Since 1997, Kucinich has been a leading progressive voice on Capitol Hill, known for actions including the bringing of articles of impeachment against George W. Bush for the invasion and occupation of Iraq, voting against the USA PATRIOT Act, advocating for ending the war on drugs, challenging U.S. warfare from Afghanistan to Libya, and pushing for single-payer healthcare to replace the patchwork, privatized U.S. system. Kucinich ran for president in 2004 and 2008 with a vow to create a Department of Peace. "The two-party system itself is failing the American people," Kucinich says. "We have to look at the culture of violence that we have in America and ... build a culture of peace." [includes rush transcript]
TRANSCRIPT This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form. JUAN GONZÁLEZ: While the so-called fiscal cliff has dominated the news headlines, the Senate is also preparing to vote today to continue a controversial domestic surveillance program. In a blow to civil liberties advocates, the Senate rejected three attempts Thursday to add oversight and privacy safeguards to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.
AMY GOODMAN: Dennis Kucinich is still with us, outgoing Democratic congressmember. This will be his last week in Congress—at least for this term of his political life. Congressmember Kucinich, the issue of FISA—what is this bill? What does it mean?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH: Well, what it reflects is a breakdown in trust in this country. The attempt is to give the government even more powers to spy, and that is really being translated into domestic, quote-unquote, "intelligence," even though it’s called the foreign intelligence bill.
We have to ask questions. You know, why, for example, was—did you have the Occupy Wall Street movement being spied upon? What is this? What’s going on in our country, where we don’t have oversight of the activities of the government when it comes to domestic spying? And what are we doing in America, where the privacy concerns of Americans are swept aside?
We’re entering into a brave new world, which involves not only the government apparatus being able to look in massive databases and extract information to try to profile people who might be considered threats to the prevailing—to the status quo. But we also are looking at drones, which are increasingly miniaturized, that will give the governments, at every level, more of an ability to look into people’s private conduct. This is a nightmare. And the FISA bill is just one example of how America is going in a direction that undermines the expectations of not just the right to privacy, but the right to be free of unreasonable search and seizure, the demand that any action that’s taken to get information about people should be subject to a warrant, that it not be subject to just any FBI agent determining that this is information they want on that person. This is bad news.
AMY GOODMAN: Congressmember Kucinich, not just what do you say to your natural opponents, the Republicans in Congress, but to your allies, Democratic congressmembers, who you almost, in many of these cases, from drones to FISA, oppose as much as the Republicans? What message do you have for them as you leave Congress?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH: Well, actually, you know, we’ve seen a bridge here created between Democrats and Republicans on the issue of liberty and being free from the all-seeing eye of Big Brother. Congressman Paul and I worked together on many of these issues relating to the government seeking increased powers to surveil the American people. You know, it’s really no longer a Democrat or Republican issue. It goes much deeper than that. And in a way, Amy, these debates that we’re having right now in Washington show the limitations of our two-party system, that the two-party system itself is failing the American people, that there really aren’t enough choices, of not just individuals, but of policies reflecting the direction America should go in.
When we find in a post-9/11 America that we are mired in a condition of fear; when we see the massive amounts of spending that’s gone for war and increased military buildups and for expansion of spy agencies like the Domestic Intelligence Agency, which is just adding another 1,600 spies so that the Pentagon can have their own spy agency to compete with, what, the CIA abroad; when you see the interventions that have fallen flat and have been disastrous, such as Libya and Benghazi; when you see al-Qaeda growing in strength because of our own misapplication of force, you have to ask, if this is about Democrat and Republican, this system is failing. And we’re seeing an evidence of it on fiscally, but we’re seeing another evidence of it in foreign policy, and we’re seeing an evidence of it domestically, when you can see a surveillance state arising under the noses of both political parties.
AMY GOODMAN: You talk about your alliance with Ron Paul. Both of you are leaving. This is your last days in Congress, at least this time. So who are your successors, who you see in Congress right now, who will carry on these struggles for privacy, against drones?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH: Well, you know, I would hope that people who I’ve worked with in the past, like Barbara Lee, Alan Grayson and others, would continue the efforts. You know, there are people on both sides of the aisle who have expressed concerns. You have to remember that we put together a very powerful coalition in challenging the war in Libya that was a coalition between Democrats and Republicans, that reflects a new concern about where is America going. Why are we letting the president or the White House determine that we should expand war? We don’t even involve Congress anymore.
I think that you’re going to see, you know, a continued effort. The question is the strength of it. And the question is, as a function of the work of political parties, why political parties have essentially been outside of this debate over civil liberties. Why have the parties watched as there’s skirmishes that go inside Congress that really are not emboldened by the support of either side of the aisle in some official party structure? That’s what I’m saying.
You know, as we look towards a new year, we may be looking at two things. Number one, within each party, you may see more primaries. So, you know, we may see people decide that instead of being independents, they want to be party animals and bring the challenge right inside the Republican and Democratic parties. Or, on the alternative, you may see a third political wave movement that arises from disgust with the inability of parties to address the economic aspirations of the American people. So, we’ll see.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Congressman, I’m wondering now, as this is 16 years now in the House, prior to that as the mayor of Cleveland, any misgivings about things that you were not able to accomplish, or, in the same way, pride in things that you were able to accomplish, especially in the House, all these years that you’ve been seen as the conscience of the House?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH: Well, I will say that it’s really unfortunate that the—that the Democratic leadership in the House did not support an impeachment effort to challenge the Bush administration, and Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney, on the lies that took us into war in Iraq. That was a pivotal moment for this country. And instead of choosing the Constitution, our leaders chose politics. Bad choice. The fact is that today, after a decade of war, we are looking at an eventual bill for that Iraq war of $5 trillion. We’re looking at perhaps as many as a million innocent civilians perishing—for war that was based on lies. People have to remember this. This isn’t just because it’s, you know, forget about the past. No, you cannot forget about the past. We went to war based on lies.
And so, you know, I did my part, which was to alert the Congress back in October 2002: Look, we’re headed into a war, and there’s no proof that Iraq has anything to do with 9/11 or had weapons of mass destruction; what are we doing here? But we were pulled into that by the Bush administration, driven by neocons and the Project for the New American Century. All of us who were following it know exactly what happened. And, you know, that set the stage for where we are today. We’re at the—you know, if there is such a thing as a fiscal cliff, we’re at the edge of it because of trillions of dollars that will be spent for wars based on lies. And there was never any accountability.
If there’s one thing we have to do, we have—America needs a period of truth and reconciliation, if we’re ever going to get—put the country back together again and achieve a level of national unity that we’re capable of. But right now we’re living on a lie. And the lie is that—that this whole national security infrastructure is necessary and that it’s necessary for us to keep expanding war around the world, it’s necessary for us to have these big spy agencies, which also interact domestically. All of this stuff shouldn’t have happened. And we made the wrong choices. And this is a problem for both political parties to resolve. You can always try to fix things, but you have to look at the severe impact that our inability to act, to challenge the lies that took us into war—you have to look at where it’s left us.
AMY GOODMAN: Congressmember Kucinich, why is it that it seems like so few tea party Republicans can control the Republican Party in Congress, and yet the largest caucus of the Democratic Party in Congress, the Progressive Caucus, has so little effect or say?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH: Well, I think, first of all, for those who are doing the daily work inside the Progressive Caucus, they should be appreciated. Raúl Grijalva and Congressman Ellison, you know, they’ve done a decent job of keeping a progressive agenda out front. However, you know, some members will choose affiliation with the Progressive Caucus as kind of a social function more than a political function. So the membership of the caucus belies the fact that once Democrats are voting on the floor of the House, you know, it doesn’t matter what caucuses they’re involved in. It’s like a social thing. What matters is they’re responding to the aspirations of their—of their constituents.
And that’s why—you know, I go back to what I said a moment ago. You know, it may be that instead of people going outside the party and saying, you know, "A curse on both your houses," that you come—that we get people coming back inside the party and start to bring primary challenges forward on both sides of the aisle to shake up the political equation so that parties really do reflect a little bit more of the involvement and the aspirations of people at a local level. I mean, the tea party knew what they were out to do. But the Democratic Party hasn’t shown the same kind of discipline or willingness to take a stand on some of these basic issues that ought to describe who we are, like Social Security, like single-payer healthcare, like keeping people in their homes, like a full-employment economy, like ending the military buildups and the war machine. I mean, you know, there’s still plenty of room for us within the party to negotiate that, if people feel there’s still a chance to do that.
AMY GOODMAN: Congressmember Kucinich, very quickly, news just in of another shooting, this in Camden County, New Jersey, three police officers shot. It looks like there are no deaths at this point. The shooting happened around 5:45 this morning, Eastern time. The power of the NRA? And also, do you see yourself getting involved with third-party politics; as you leave, what your plans are?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH: You know, I’d love to be involved in two-party politics, but we don’t really have that right now.
I think that this ubiquity, ubiquitousness of violence in our society isn’t just about guns. We have to look at the culture of violence that we have in America and deal with it in a way that isn’t about beating ourselves up, but we have to look at the spectrum of violence—domestic violence, spousal abuse, child abuse, violence in the school, gang violence, gun violence, racial violence, violence against gays, and the police community challenges that come up. And in doing that, that’s why I called for, years ago, a Department of Peace, not to simply create another federal department, but to have an organized approach nationally to deal with the violence in a society, to help families deal with the tensions that they have at home, to deal with some of the fundamental attitudes people have, boys might have about girls, and, you know, through education. We need to take a new approach.
And frankly, you know, we can get rid of all guns; we’re still going to have violence. Now, I have never supported the NRA. I probably have, you know, a zero rating with them. But the fact of the matter is that we have to take a much broader view. Again, the debate is too narrow here. It’s—we need to look at the cultural issues, that are real. And when you talk about gun control here in America, and at the same time you’re talking about gun expansion across the world, about not only the United States exporting arms to the world and engendering wars everywhere, but our own efforts proliferating wars, that’s kind of a mixed message that inevitably is not easily reconciled.
So we need to build a culture of peace in America. Is it possible? Of course it is. You know, violence is a learned response. So is nonviolence. And so, through education and through creating a social health safety net, I think that we can meet the challenge. And that’s one of the things I’m certainly going to be involved in as I leave the Congress, to try to broaden the debate, to look at this in a way that’s compassionate and at the same time not blaming ourselves, but recognizing that we have a culture that is very violent and that affects Americans at every level. And if we address that in a systematic way through an organized approach, using the resources and assets of government at all levels, I think that we could find a way to change from where we are today with this dismal record of one shooting after another and all the, you know, innocent people and public servants constantly being under attack.
AMY GOODMAN: Congressmember Kucinich, we want thank you very much for being with us. Dennis Kucinich, eight-term congressmember from Ohio, serving his last week as a member of Congress. We will look forward to talking to you in your new capacity, whatever that will be.
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH: Thank you.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. When we come back, we look at the Wilmington 10. Why are so many calling on the North Carolina governor to pardon them. We urge you to listen. Stay with us.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started. They could still get him out of office. But instead, they want mass death. Don’t forget that.
That said, to Jerky and SLAD, our two lone Hillary defenders...I will concede this point: Hillary I thought did her best performance tonight. Was poised, laid out a great progressive-ish rights case in the beginning. And unlike the "Hillary is sick" conspiracies, Trump was the one who looked rather sickly tonight. Either that or he smoked quite a big doobie
please link to all the defense of Hillary posts I have made
on edit
and the posts I made defending a woman's right not to be blamed for her husband/boyfriends deeds do not count
still waiting
I believe that a woman should not be blamed for actions / deeds of their husbands or boyfriends (or fathers or so on).
Hillary Clinton is a special case.
First, she is or has been an attorney and has different knowledge and obligation of the law than the normal citizen.
Second, as First lady of Arkansas and First lady of the USA, the Clinton's billed themselves as a professional partnership in skill and action. When Bill Clinton lost his first attempt to remain Governor of Arkansas, Hillary Rodham took the surname Clinton and otherwise morphed herself to more the Southern image of women to retake the office. I make no comment regards to alleged affairs by Bill Clinton aside from that with Monica Lewinsky where he lied and was impeached and was supported rather than condemned by Hillary Clinton who condemned Lewinsky. In most corporate or public sector employment at that time, Bill Clinton would have lost his job and been otherwise penalized. I defended both Clintons for many years but stopped while Hillary Clinton was Senator because or her actions in office. The crime and welfare "reform" while Bill Clinton was POTUS had harm that fell disproportionately on women and especially women of color. Hillary Clinton has stated that Bill Clinton would have a role in her White House.
Third, Hillary Clinton has supported legislation and policy that is women-friendly where politically expedient but her record regarding women in foreign affairs is appalling. Imagine a balance sheet of the absolute number of women (and children and the elderly and other innocents) that have been raped, tortured, murdered, and otherwise abused in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Honduras and less add in the constitutional soup in Paraguay under her watch where the first non-Colorado party president in Paraguay in 60 plus years was impeached with full support of Clinton's State Department compared with the absolute number of women raped, tortured, murdered and otherwise abused in the USA. let's throw in what happens in that Clinton friendly and donating country of the House of Saud and how they treat women and export the philosophy to other countries by military force.
Fourth, some women willingly benefit from patriarchy just as many men are economic or military cannon fodder. Hillary Clinton bills herself as a Thatcher in toughness. In the weird twist of history, Hillary Clinton is the standard bearer for the right wing MIC progression from Reagan-Bush-Clinton-Bush-Obama sending the anti-war liberals out in the cold while embracing support of the leading neo-conservatives we allegedly loath and who have certainly caused great distress and harm to women and the people and environment out of lust for power and hubris. The redbaiting by Hillary Clinton is appalling. I knew that I could never support Hillary Clinton when I observed the psychopath giggling in the We came we saw and so on video of Libya. I posted that video at least 20 times on the internet.
Disrespecting and not trusting Hillary Clinton does not make one a Trump supporter nor a Putin (or Gaddafi or name another asshole) lover nor a woman hater. What it means is that one has recognized the absolute failure of the two party system now in the USA to provide an acceptable choice for POTUS in 2016. I have thought unhappily for years that Hillary Clinton would be the next POTUS. At one time I thought I would probably vote for her. Now I hope Clinton is a weak POTUS that is out in no more than one term. I am concerned about her competence. Trump in the unlikely event elected will have little support and be on a tight rope even by the GOP in his incompetence but Hillary Clinton is likely to be very effective in continuing the agenda not unlike that of Reagan and GWB, closer in fact than what has occurred under Obama (who has disappointed me).
There is no shame in being in favor of a weak and short time as POTUS for Hillary Clinton.
so is Clinton the one and only exception to the rule or are there other women who are responsible for their husband/boyfriend/fathers actions?
if there are others could you please name them
who else do you consider responsible for another's actions...man or woman?
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started. They could still get him out of office. But instead, they want mass death. Don’t forget that.
seemslikeadream » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:30 am wrote:so is Clinton the one and only exception to the rule or are there other women who are responsible for their husband/boyfriend/fathers actions?
if there are others could you please name them
who else do you consider responsible for another's actions...man or woman?
Hillary Clinton is the rare exception to the rule and I cannot think of another woman who fits the description as no other woman has been tested so and unfortunately in my eyes anyway Hillary Clinton fails.
I can even understand her support for Bill Clinton and did so accept back during the impeachment. My thoughts then were "Bill Clinton you are such a shit bird to put us all through this" "and Hillary is strong and has class" and even, if Bill Clinton felt the need to be such an ass and be caught, that the event was best kept private, damn the haters
What put me over the edge was that the foreign policies supported and voiced by Hillary Clinton that caused damage to so many woman (and people) in the countries listed. Hillary Clinton exposed as a lying violent with a laugh psychopath as evidenced by that Libya video is reason to re-examine her as a whole.
Women that thoughtlessly or gladly benefit from patriarchy rather than an egalitarian world are relatively common to the degree that there is nothing to criticize, they just live their lives as to what is presented and accepted as normal and hence there is little to blame or criticize.
Yesterday I got the most recent alumni magazine from Haas School at Cal and one of the lead articles concluded that men with muscles are more likely to be perceived as strong leaders than those with less muscles, presented as simple fact. Weird.
That Hillary Clinton is a politician with muscle is fact and gender or sex is immaterial to this determination but violent psychopath matters.
I want to get through Clinton's time as POTUS as fast and non-eventful as possible.
I want to get through Clinton's time as POTUS as fast and non-eventful as possible.
no doubt..absolutely
so there are no examples of men that you can think of that you would blame for their wives/girlfriends/mothers actions?
she is the one person in the world ever in it's history that you would hold accountable for actions of another?
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started. They could still get him out of office. But instead, they want mass death. Don’t forget that.
I want to get through Clinton's time as POTUS as fast and non-eventful as possible.
no doubt..absolutely
so there are no examples of men that you can think of that you would blame for their wives/girlfriends/mothers actions?
she is the one person in the world ever in it's history that you would hold accountable for actions of another?
The first question is a different question but men often have done inexplicable things to attract or otherwise gain or access women or have the approval of a woman. Often men are enablers or can provide the means. This would happen less the more egalitarian the culture. Men kill more often for what are supposed as virtuous reasons such as protecting children.
Hillary Clinton is unique in contemporary and maybe human history. One could look back at say Queen Elizabeth who controlled the global British Empire but the scope and suddenness of control cannot be compared. Maybe to me at one point my perception of Hillary Clinton shifted to her as a cold blooded violent psychopath and her sex and gender truly no longer mattered except for a difference of camouflage.
The uniqueness is the position of POTUS and that her husband / partner was also POTUS and that they have self-identified as a team and that Bill Clinton acted badly and likely has acted badly more times and ways than we mortals can conceive. Also her track record of the casual lie. Add the cherry on top in that professionally and be education she is an attorney.
The 2nd question isn't really relevant or answerable because I would never make a claim that any individual is 100% responsible for the actions of another except maybe by extreme coercion rather than actual choice.
Hillary Clinton is unique in contemporary and maybe human history
all of human history.....that's some kinda resume
do you think she is possessed by the devil or has she done this all on her own?
not that I am blaming the devil for a woman's deeds
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started. They could still get him out of office. But instead, they want mass death. Don’t forget that.
I am afraid that what I am witnessing from (most) neoliberal and liberal supporters of Clinton is not some temporary "antifascist" logic move to stop Trump from acquiring power (which is pretty much what Seemslikeadream is doing here if I understand it correctly); it feels more like a permanent cultural shift to the right. Try as I might, I cannot imagine many of her supporters suddenly gaining some critical theory and joining the left to organize for equality or peace come January.
They could still support their candidate while amplifying the voices of Haitians, Libyans, Hondurans, Syrians, black women, and the poor, but they mostly remain silent. I think this cohort will have a huge mandate after she is elected and predict an accelerated class war in 2017 with this sort of central-right column holding and exerting a lot of power on society. I'm not looking forward to it but ever-forward anyway.
The Rich and the Corporate remain in their hundred-year fever visions of Bolsheviks taking their stuff - JackRiddler
by norton ash » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:30 pm 
